Zeiss Batis 25/2 and 85/1.8 Coming

[biglouis]

I lost the Leica itch a long time ago. Paying triple for maybe 1-5 percent performance increase was not worth the costs. I'll hobble along as a guy that came from the best tech lenses on the planet that 5 percent just does not always add up when it comes to a 8 thousand dollar lens.. I'll pay a extra 1 thousand dollars for that 5 percent but no more. I worn out that T shirt. LOL

Guy, it wasn't so much the 'Leica itch' in my case as the fact that the early line-up for the A7 series was pretty disappointing.

I was very disappointed by the 35/2.8 so ditched that for a non-asph Summicron 2/35 which was marvellous in comparison. But I am afraid that as soon as I mounted the Loxia 2/35 and had the auto magnify (which I know you don't particularly like but I do) and the EXIF info, I am afraid I was sold.

LouisB

 

[Show Performance]

I know Guy has already seen this, but for the rest of you that haven't - I stumbled into both Batis at a dealer day expo at Precision Camera the other day. Very brief time with the lenses so don't expect any inspiring snaps but here is a write-up...

Zeiss Batis 25mm and 85mm hands-on, plus FE 28mm f/2 comparison | Chad Wadsworth | Photographer

If you don't care to read through, the short story is I am buying both! I was confident that the 85mm would be great but wasn't as interested in the 25mm given my satisfaction with the budget FE 28/2. I was wrong on the 25mm and took an immediate shine to it. Might end up being my most used lens.

 

[Vivek]

Chad, Don't chew my head off. :lecture:

With the CA that is on par with the 28/2 coming out of both the Batis why would would you say "a must buy for E mounters"? I like the portrait (thought it was mannequin), closer look reveals CA on the eyeglass frame. Even I have seen far better portrait lens results from many other system lenses.

 

[The Ute]

I know Guy has already seen this, but for the rest of you that haven't - I stumbled into both Batis at a dealer day expo at Precision Camera the other day. Very brief time with the lenses so don't expect any inspiring snaps but here is a write-up...

Zeiss Batis 25mm and 85mm hands-on, plus FE 28mm f/2 comparison | Chad Wadsworth | Photographer

If you don't care to read through, the short story is I am buying both! I was confident that the 85mm would be great but wasn't as interested in the 25mm given my satisfaction with the budget FE 28/2. I was wrong on the 25mm and took an immediate shine to it. Might end up being my most used lens.

Thanks so much for sharing that. Much appreciated.

 

[jfirneno]

I know Guy has already seen this, but for the rest of you that haven't - I stumbled into both Batis at a dealer day expo at Precision Camera the other day. Very brief time with the lenses so don't expect any inspiring snaps but here is a write-up...

Zeiss Batis 25mm and 85mm hands-on, plus FE 28mm f/2 comparison | Chad Wadsworth | Photographer

If you don't care to read through, the short story is I am buying both! I was confident that the 85mm would be great but wasn't as interested in the 25mm given my satisfaction with the budget FE 28/2. I was wrong on the 25mm and took an immediate shine to it. Might end up being my most used lens.

Chad:
Thanks so much for the info. I don't know whether to thank you or damn you! Now I have to get these two lenses. Between Sony and Zeiss I'm gonna go broke.

Thanks again.

 

[Show Performance]

Chad, Don't chew my head off. :lecture:

With the CA that is on par with the 28/2 coming out of both the Batis why would would you say "a must buy for E mounters"? I like the portrait (thought it was mannequin), closer look reveals CA on the eyeglass frame. Even I have seen far better portrait lens results from many other system lenses.

I'm not prepared to say that the Batis 25mm has CA issues on par with the 28mm - I've seen some particularly nasty CA from the 28mm but have no idea if the Batis would do the same in identical conditions - fair enough? Overall, the files feel more refined, and I prefer the rendering and extra 3 degrees in the FOV. My must buy statement did not refer to the 25mm - the 28mm (which I believe I vigorously supported) is too great a value and excellent performer in its own right. However, if you prefer something wider with optical distortion control and equally good sharpness and Bokeh, then for you the Batis may be a must buy.

So on the portrait shot you are ready to claim that you have seen far better results from many other system lenses? Based on one shot? In less than ideal lighting conditions - actually a bit of a CA torture test.

How is it exactly that you know that these other lenses would have performed better in this same shot? I never claimed that the Batis is the greatest 85mm ever produced, but I stand by the comment that it is a must buy for the alpha platform. You get top build quality, Image Stabilization, native AF and to my taste, excellent performance at a price point many are willing to purchase at.

 

[Vivek]

Pixel peeping shows an impressive amount of sharpness and detail at f/1.8 – make sure you click on the image and zoom in to see every pore in detail.

From that link. That is why I peeped in and the CA is noticeable. If you say that it isn't it must be good then. I don't claim anything.

 

[Show Performance]

From that link. That is why I peeped in and the CA is noticeable. If you say that it isn't it must be good then. I don't claim anything.

Sorry, I don't believe I ever said that the CA wasn't noticeable. It just doesn't bother me and I expected it to be there in these conditions. Pretty sure my ZA 85mm would have done the same.

On the contrary you did claim that other system lenses were much better.

 

[Vivek]

I am sure many other samples will available soon to determine one way or the other.

 

[Vivek]

My travel schedule does not fit in well with the release dates of the Batii. I need at least a week or so with a new lens to determine if it would be suitable for an application. So, I have plenty of time to decide in a few months time.

 

[turtle]

Sadly, firm conclusions are often reached far too early on the web and so I am going to sit and watch from the sidelines. The 28mm f2 has my interest but the 25mm Batis is the lens I have waited for, so fingers crossed (and waiting for the 15 or 18mm). I'm sure some will firmly conclude it is a 'rip off' while others say 'CA ruins it' and lack of perfect corners at 2KM at f2 will leave some noses pointing skywards....

PS. My 24mm Elmar is phenomenal in the corners at all landscape distances, including far closer than 10m. I guess even Leica has some lenses at the left side of the standard distribution

 

[Vivek]

PS. My 24mm Elmar is phenomenal in the corners at all landscape distances, including far closer than 10m. I guess even Leica has some lenses at the left side of the standard distribution

Sure they do.

 

[serhan]

Chad, thanks for the hands on review and the samples.

I most probably will end up with those lenses as af lenses, but the lenses show how the Zeiss (or Tamron design with 85mm) philosophy changed by time/digital age eg sharper lenses with more digital corrections eg CA/distortion corrections (85mm). I guess they have to compromise somewhere, otherwise we will have Otus sizes... I have the older Contarex CZ lenses from 50's & 60's. As Erwin puts it:

Contarex lenses | LEICAgraphy

The graphs do show one major characteristic. Zeiss designers gave the most attention to flatness of field and the reduction of astigmatism. This can be seen most clearly in the MTF for the Planar 50mm lens. The graphs are almost straight lines and the difference between sagittal and tangential lines is marginal. Note too than stopping down does improve the definition of fine detail, but not the overall contrast, which stays at the same level frm f/2 to f/5.6. Here we see quite clearly that the choice for high overall contrast (the Leica option) does imply a reduction in the correction for flatness of field and astigmatism.

The special smoothness and depth of the Contarex lenses can be explained by these curves. The characteristics of the Contarex lenses are reminiscent of the Hasselblad lenses. Stopped down a bit they exhibit a remarkable finesse of gradation and depth. They may not be the sharpest lenses ever, but the rendition of shape outlines and surface details is most pleasing and subtle like a poem.

 

[Show Performance]

Sadly, firm conclusions are often reached far too early on the web and so I am going to sit and watch from the sidelines. The 28mm f2 has my interest but the 25mm Batis is the lens I have waited for, so fingers crossed (and waiting for the 15 or 18mm). I'm sure some will firmly conclude it is a 'rip off' while others say 'CA ruins it' and lack of perfect corners at 2KM at f2 will leave some noses pointing skywards....

PS. My 24mm Elmar is phenomenal in the corners at all landscape distances, including far closer than 10m. I guess even Leica has some lenses at the left side of the standard distribution

Yes, you nailed it on both accounts - we are quick to judge and all lenses require compromise.

I edited my hands-on to be even more clear about the early nature of my experience with the lenses. Still, I have seen enough lenses in my experience to know what I will be satisfied (or even thrilled) by and think that these both fall into that category.

 

[Show Performance]

Unfortunately, I was unable to determine how well the 85mm will AF in low light - kind of important for my line of photography.

 

[Show Performance]

After reading comments regarding the CA on the Batis 85mm I became curious about whether I was having selective memory regarding the performance of the legendary ZA 85/1.4

So I dug into the archive and confirmed that I was glossing over the past and that the ZA did indeed exhibit some nasty CA, even stopped down to f/2.2 - you would think for a fast optic it would be resolved by then. Here are the samples:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/338/18128939748_7402bb6867_o.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7743/17694127614_08239dfca5_o.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7730/18130570409_bc270697b2_o.jpg


makes me wonder how the ZA would have performed in the portrait shot I took with the Batis. Hmmmm

 

[algrove]

RE: Leica. It is not Sony or anyone else who have done any damage to their sales! :angel:

You mean they continue to shoot themselves in the foot all too often? On LUF some guy mentioned that the two cutting edge innovators are Sony and Leica.

So I aksed him other than the T what is cutting edge in Leicas product listings.

This year could be very important for both campanies, especially Sony if they offer the right gear for pro/semi pro use and for Leics if they don't start offering innovative cameras that can take M lenses and I don't mean Monochroms.

 

[Vivek]

After reading comments regarding the CA on the Batis 85mm I became curious about whether I was having selective memory regarding the performance of the legendary ZA 85/1.4

So I dug into the archive and confirmed that I was glossing over the past and that the ZA did indeed exhibit some nasty CA, even stopped down to f/2.2 - you would think for a fast optic it would be resolved by then. Here are the samples:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/338/18128939748_7402bb6867_o.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7743/17694127614_08239dfca5_o.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7730/18130570409_bc270697b2_o.jpg


makes me wonder how the ZA would have performed in the portrait shot I took with the Batis. Hmmmm

Thanks.

Not you but a thought was floated around earlier that the MTF of Batus was almost that of the OTus Apo Sonnar 85/.14. That is the reason why CA became an issue to look for.

 

[serhan]

I tried the Sony 135mm 1.8 and Minolta 100mm f2 lately and they were not the best for low light af. I was surprised that $90 beercan was focusing better with slower aperture. But then the shutter speeds were too low for motion capture though A7 II IBIS was excellent for the low shutter speeds.

Unfortunately, I was unable to determine how well the 85mm will AF in low light - kind of important for my line of photography.

All these legendary lenses go back to Contarex/Contax designs including the 85mm 1.4 planar:
ZEISS PLANAR CONTAREX 85mm f / 1.4: HISTORY OF A LEGEND
COMPARISON BETWEEN GENERATIONS: THE MTF OF OBJECTIVES CONTAREX VS CONTAX LEICA

The newer Otus & ZE/ZF 135mm are better corrected for CA. Again I am not looking for those due to size/price, etc. In case of the Sonnar, they had the good formula in 1958, but I guess it wasn't sharp enough for the digital age.

After reading comments regarding the CA on the Batis 85mm I became curious about whether I was having selective memory regarding the performance of the legendary ZA 85/1.4

So I dug into the archive and confirmed that I was glossing over the past and that the ZA did indeed exhibit some nasty CA, even stopped down to f/2.2 - you would think for a fast optic it would be resolved by then. Here are the samples:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/338/18128939748_7402bb6867_o.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7743/17694127614_08239dfca5_o.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7730/18130570409_bc270697b2_o.jpg


makes me wonder how the ZA would have performed in the portrait shot I took with the Batis. Hmmmm

 

[Vivek]

So I aksed him other than the T what is cutting edge in Leicas product listings.

Even if Leica posts a 2 hour video of metal polishing, I would not consider the T as a "cutting edge" product.