k-hawinkler
Well-known member
Doug, very funny!
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I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...
- Thread starter MikeEvangelist
- Start date
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
4season
Well-known member
But is Sony Disease any cheaper to treat?
The whole camera weighs about what that Zeiss E 35/1.4 does. Gives you what looks to be best in the world 28 image quality, excepting Vivek's Lux, and maybe my Cron.
It's a no-brainer if you have the change lying around. I would not want this as my only camera, but as second body to A7x or M, it is great, great, great. However, I will have to wait to steal a used one
BTW the new sensor on the r2 may play better with M wides, if so, that would be huge.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Im not going to even comment on that one. Be a rats nest I don't want to get into.
The price in Australia has just been announced ... $6000. Not sure about your pockets but mine aren't big enough to hold that much change. Either way, I would much rather buy the A7RII with 3 year newer technology and a couple of Zeiss lenses for the same money.
I have to say that just as I was about to totally leave the leica fold (apart from a couple of longer lenses) along comes the Q which actually of me ticks so many of the boxes I need for my sort of photography and especially street and documentary work that the Sony A7 and FE lenses don't
1. A auto/manual lens with a proper DOF scale which I find vital for street photography and zone focussing. As good as the new FE 28 is (especially for what it costs) the lack of DOF scale makes it hard to use consistently.
2. Analogue shutter speed and aperture controls that I can adjust and see without having to look at the screen
3. Almost silent leaf shutter.
4.More control over auto iso settings
So my order is in and it is goodbye to the Leica M and 28 summicron both of which haven't had much use lately and whose sale will cover the cost of this acquisition. I will keep most of my other Leica lenses as they are all ones that perform well on the Sony's apart from the lux 50 which will probably go as well.
The A7rII looks like an amazing bit of kit but I don't need that amount of MP's and am actually somewhat P***sed off with Sony that the A7II which is only 6 months old doesn't have the silent shutter function and some of the other updates the the rII has.
1. A auto/manual lens with a proper DOF scale which I find vital for street photography and zone focussing. As good as the new FE 28 is (especially for what it costs) the lack of DOF scale makes it hard to use consistently.
2. Analogue shutter speed and aperture controls that I can adjust and see without having to look at the screen
3. Almost silent leaf shutter.
4.More control over auto iso settings
So my order is in and it is goodbye to the Leica M and 28 summicron both of which haven't had much use lately and whose sale will cover the cost of this acquisition. I will keep most of my other Leica lenses as they are all ones that perform well on the Sony's apart from the lux 50 which will probably go as well.
The A7rII looks like an amazing bit of kit but I don't need that amount of MP's and am actually somewhat P***sed off with Sony that the A7II which is only 6 months old doesn't have the silent shutter function and some of the other updates the the rII has.
It looks like a great camera and may tick some people's boxes perfectly, but my view is that:
1. It is too expensive to be a huge success in the context of digital camera renewal cycles and the limitations of a fixed lens camera. I'd love one, but not at that price. For a 28mm walkaround I have a GR which is tiny by comparison. If it won't fit in a pocket, the A7 series will do nicely (for me). The GR has a slower, but even higher performing lens (according to Reid). Of course they are very different cameras in other ways.
2. The 28 f1.7 lux is very good, but its too early to claim it matches the Summilux-M 28 lux. Reid showed that edge performance is noticeably behind the RX1.
3. It will soon have competition in the form of an updated RX1 it seems. This could hurt Leica Q sales considerably, for those who would consider 35mm instead of 28.
I feel the Q is Leica's future, but with interchangeable lenses. I think it would kill the M and should indeed be developed hard so that it does so. Looking at many comments, I think this is the unsaid verdict quite a few people have: 'the Q hits the sweet spot, but most of us need to change lenses'. The T was too 'revolutionary' and missed the mark, but the Q... well, it hits very close to bullseye and interchangeable lenses would give people the camera many hoped the Sony FE system was going to be and the natural successor to the Leica M. I love my Monochrom, but the platform needs renewal IMHO and as EVFs improve, the optical finder and RF mechanism - what made the M stand out - will ultimately have to go. I feel the Q shows us that this is not only tolerable, but perhaps even for diehards... desirable.
The other feeling I have from looking at recent launches is that the following are in big trouble:
Canon - No real innovation and ancient sensor technology.
Nikon - No real innovation but at least they have cracking sensors.
M43 - Brilliant FF and APS-C are not much bigger now. Great cameras, but the FE system will be dragging away a lot of interest from high end OMD E-M1 type bodies (I suspect).
1. It is too expensive to be a huge success in the context of digital camera renewal cycles and the limitations of a fixed lens camera. I'd love one, but not at that price. For a 28mm walkaround I have a GR which is tiny by comparison. If it won't fit in a pocket, the A7 series will do nicely (for me). The GR has a slower, but even higher performing lens (according to Reid). Of course they are very different cameras in other ways.
2. The 28 f1.7 lux is very good, but its too early to claim it matches the Summilux-M 28 lux. Reid showed that edge performance is noticeably behind the RX1.
3. It will soon have competition in the form of an updated RX1 it seems. This could hurt Leica Q sales considerably, for those who would consider 35mm instead of 28.
I feel the Q is Leica's future, but with interchangeable lenses. I think it would kill the M and should indeed be developed hard so that it does so. Looking at many comments, I think this is the unsaid verdict quite a few people have: 'the Q hits the sweet spot, but most of us need to change lenses'. The T was too 'revolutionary' and missed the mark, but the Q... well, it hits very close to bullseye and interchangeable lenses would give people the camera many hoped the Sony FE system was going to be and the natural successor to the Leica M. I love my Monochrom, but the platform needs renewal IMHO and as EVFs improve, the optical finder and RF mechanism - what made the M stand out - will ultimately have to go. I feel the Q shows us that this is not only tolerable, but perhaps even for diehards... desirable.
The other feeling I have from looking at recent launches is that the following are in big trouble:
Canon - No real innovation and ancient sensor technology.
Nikon - No real innovation but at least they have cracking sensors.
M43 - Brilliant FF and APS-C are not much bigger now. Great cameras, but the FE system will be dragging away a lot of interest from high end OMD E-M1 type bodies (I suspect).
V
Vivek
Guest
Thanks but too pricey for me for what it can do. I'll pass. Hope Leica does well. I would like them to be around.
I am just so taken with the new RX100 iv (yeah, I know only 1 inch sensor and a zoom). Totally new tech with awesome capabilities and pocketable.
That gets my money.
When the RX2 shows up, I will likely grab one of those as well.
Yes the RX100IV looks great but for the time being I will hang onto my MkIII as my pocket camera as it is still a little marvelThanks but too pricey for me for what it can do. I'll pass. Hope Leica does well. I would like them to be around.
I am just so taken with the new RX100 iv (yeah, I know only 1 inch sensor and a zoom). Totally new tech with awesome capabilities and pocketable.
That gets my money.
When the RX2 shows up, I will likely grab one of those as well.
All probably true but for me there is nothing quite like this camera even considering it's price. I know the Gr is fantastic but I need FF to be able to get subject separation at wider apertures
V
Vivek
Guest
I am sure it is. But the Mk4 has something else. Ultrafast video (and 4K as well). This is totally insane. If this goes up another order, every kid out there will be making discoveries in science.
Many might have witnessed Sodium explosions in school demos. Only recently it has been found why it does that, with the help of high speed video.
Check this: http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2015/01/alkali-metal-explosion-explained
So I just spent nearly an hour or so playing with the Q in the Leica Store, Mayfair.
1. On the whole this is a very well finished machine with some fantastic features and good manual controls as you would expect from Leica. My main concerns with the camera (which haven't stopped me selling my M and ordering it) could be fixed mostly in firmware updates
1. I found it a pain to have to delve into the menu system to have to make changes to the focus setting which for me need to be much more accessible and should really be in the function menu
2. It would be great if the focus spot could be made to recenter after a shot as you can with Sony A7 series by pressing the delete button.
3. In touch screen focus alone once the point is set to an area it doesn't refocus if you move and do a half press of the shutter. I found this annoying
4. Unfortunately the focus scale jumps from 6' to infinity in a very small throw of the ring, it would have been nice and more convenient if the focus throw had matched the 28 summicron asph more
5. The grip really adds to the ease of handling and will be the first and only extra I feel I need to buy for it.
1. On the whole this is a very well finished machine with some fantastic features and good manual controls as you would expect from Leica. My main concerns with the camera (which haven't stopped me selling my M and ordering it) could be fixed mostly in firmware updates
1. I found it a pain to have to delve into the menu system to have to make changes to the focus setting which for me need to be much more accessible and should really be in the function menu
2. It would be great if the focus spot could be made to recenter after a shot as you can with Sony A7 series by pressing the delete button.
3. In touch screen focus alone once the point is set to an area it doesn't refocus if you move and do a half press of the shutter. I found this annoying
4. Unfortunately the focus scale jumps from 6' to infinity in a very small throw of the ring, it would have been nice and more convenient if the focus throw had matched the 28 summicron asph more
5. The grip really adds to the ease of handling and will be the first and only extra I feel I need to buy for it.
I think Leica deserves some credit for getting this thing out, and it's got quite a buzz going.
4200 with the great glass....the R2 will be body only for 3200, and we know which is going to hold value better.
I know, "interchangeable", is a nice feature, but I think for those who like 28 this thing is pretty sweet
But, I'm not rich, so I will make due with M9 and 28 cron.
4200 with the great glass....the R2 will be body only for 3200, and we know which is going to hold value better.
I know, "interchangeable", is a nice feature, but I think for those who like 28 this thing is pretty sweet
But, I'm not rich, so I will make due with M9 and 28 cron.
iiiNelson
Well-known member
For me a camera having interchangeable lenses isn't a feature but rather a requirement once we are talking prices north of $1500. This is pretty much the same reason I passed up on the RX1 (besides it not having a built in EVF.) the RX1 could've solves my desire for a great 35 a long time ago except I'm not willing to part with that kind of money for a limiting camera.I think Leica deserves some credit for getting this thing out, and it's got quite a buzz going.
4200 with the great glass....the R2 will be body only for 3200, and we know which is going to hold value better.
I know, "interchangeable", is a nice feature, but I think for those who like 28 this thing is pretty sweet
But, I'm not rich, so I will make due with M9 and 28 cron.
How do you know which will hold it's value better??I think Leica deserves some credit for getting this thing out, and it's got quite a buzz going.
4200 with the great glass....the R2 will be body only for 3200, and we know which is going to hold value better.
I know, "interchangeable", is a nice feature, but I think for those who like 28 this thing is pretty sweet
But, I'm not rich, so I will make due with M9 and 28 cron.
In Australia, the M9 sold for $9000 new, with used prices now sitting at $3k. All digital cameras depreciate, Leica included.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
For me it's about spending 4200 dollars. That would be both Batis 25,85, 35 distagon and maybe another lens. Or a 42 MPX cam and a Batis 25mm. Not as small and pocketable but certainly more functional with my other gear. I just don't have 4200 dollars laying around like that not being used as real gear to shoot gigs with. Problem I have being a PRO. There is no disposable gear you can buy or maybe better said fun gear. Sometimes that really just pisses my off.
This certainly fits in my category of fun camera. Not so much a production camera. Now as a gift sure you can buy me one. Lol
This certainly fits in my category of fun camera. Not so much a production camera. Now as a gift sure you can buy me one. Lol