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Batis 25/f2 and 85/f1.8 on the A7R, first impressions

Pradeep

Member
Wow! What a thoughtful and helpful evaluation.

........................
In any event, I feel that all my lenses are going to get an upgrade once the A7rii arrives.

Thanks,

Bill
Bill, just curious.

What do you think would be the best line-up for the A7RII from ultra-wide to 200mm if size, weight and cost were taken out of the equation, IOW pure image quality (overall - sharpness, contrast, color, bokeh etc all taken into account).

For me, AF would also be a priority although for ultrawide I could live without it.

Pradeep
 

ohnri

New member
Bill, just curious.

What do you think would be the best line-up for the A7RII from ultra-wide to 200mm if size, weight and cost were taken out of the equation, IOW pure image quality (overall - sharpness, contrast, color, bokeh etc all taken into account).

For me, AF would also be a priority although for ultrawide I could live without it.

Pradeep
From my limited experience I would have to go with the usual suspects.

16-35 FE
Batis 25
Zeiss 35 f/1.4 FE
Sony 55 FE
Batis 85 vs Sony 90 Macro
At the long end I believe there is some excellent A mount glass at 135 and 200 that is available but the Sony 70-200 is considered very,very strong between 100 and 150

Think what a portable FF kit that would be if you went for the Sony 70-200.

However, I am about to go to Disneyland with friends and family.

I am taking only my Samsung NX1 with the terrific 16-50 S f/2-2.8 lens.

It is high quality. Has strong weather sealing. Fast AF. Does 4K video internally. Can easily be handed to anyone to take a great photo of me. Shoots 15 fps to get that perfect micro-expression.

I can literally just hold the camera in front of me at arm's length and capture fun shots of children reacting to the amazing sights while we walk.

The JPEG's are great.

So, as much as I very much want to take my Zeiss 35mm f/1.4 with me, I know I'll get better photographs with the lesser, but still quite fine, Samsung zoom.

I do wonder if the A7rii will change that calculus in favor of a one or two lens Sony kit for future similar excursions.

Best,

Bill
 

Pradeep

Member
From my limited experience I would have to go with the usual suspects.

16-35 FE
Batis 25
Zeiss 35 f/1.4 FE
Sony 55 FE
Batis 85 vs Sony 90 Macro
At the long end I believe there is some excellent A mount glass at 135 and 200 that is available but the Sony 70-200 is considered very,very strong between 100 and 150

Think what a portable FF kit that would be if you went for the Sony 70-200.

However, I am about to go to Disneyland with friends and family.

I am taking only my Samsung NX1 with the terrific 16-50 S f/2-2.8 lens.

It is high quality. Has strong weather sealing. Fast AF. Does 4K video internally. Can easily be handed to anyone to take a great photo of me. Shoots 15 fps to get that perfect micro-expression.

I can literally just hold the camera in front of me at arm's length and capture fun shots of children reacting to the amazing sights while we walk.

The JPEG's are great.

So, as much as I very much want to take my Zeiss 35mm f/1.4 with me, I know I'll get better photographs with the lesser, but still quite fine, Samsung zoom.

I do wonder if the A7rii will change that calculus in favor of a one or two lens Sony kit for future similar excursions.

Best,

Bill
I would agree with most of your choices since I've tried four on your list so far. I've used the Canon 70-200 f4 with metabones and I think the size/heft is about the same as the Sony. The need for long glass has been somewhat limited so far, but the A7RII with its new AF capabilities may change all that.

The only concern I have is that at the <20mm end, while the 16-35/f4 is really sharp, it is limited to f4 and has come coma distortion making it harder as the first choice for night photography. I've attached an image taken at f8 at 20mm to illustrate. While I love the overall rendering and sharpness, it is not ideal for this kind of imaging. Wide open it may have been even worse.

I have another question - for you or anyone else, just hypothetically speaking. If you were limited to just ONE lens on the A7R for general purpose/walkabout (as if it was a fixed single-lens camera), what would be your choice? For me it would have to be 24-70/f4 although my copy seems to be a bit soft I think.

Pradeep

- - - Updated - - -

More Batis 25 images here, 91 of them to be exact, covers a lot of ground. Any wide that hangs at this level is a fine lens. ;-)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/silver2silicon/sets/72157652664765263/with/19126399040/

[apoly-logies if posted above.]
Thanks Philip, great images of some great cars.

No doubt now, this is indeed a wonderful lens.

Pradeep
 

Attachments

ohnri

New member
I would agree with most of your choices since I've tried four on your list so far. I've used the Canon 70-200 f4 with metabones and I think the size/heft is about the same as the Sony. The need for long glass has been somewhat limited so far, but the A7RII with its new AF capabilities may change all that.

The only concern I have is that at the <20mm end, while the 16-35/f4 is really sharp, it is limited to f4 and has come coma distortion making it harder as the first choice for night photography. I've attached an image taken at f8 at 20mm to illustrate. While I love the overall rendering and sharpness, it is not ideal for this kind of imaging. Wide open it may have been even worse.

I have another question - for you or anyone else, just hypothetically speaking. If you were limited to just ONE lens on the A7R for general purpose/walkabout (as if it was a fixed single-lens camera), what would be your choice? For me it would have to be 24-70/f4 although my copy seems to be a bit soft I think.

Pradeep

- - - Updated - - -



Thanks Philip, great images of some great cars.

No doubt now, this is indeed a wonderful lens.

Pradeep
I have enjoyed both the 35 mm f/1.4 and the 16-35 f/4 as single walkabout lenses.

If I were to pick just one, I suppose the 35 mm would get the nod because it has some special sauce baked in.

-Bill
 

Pradeep

Member
I have enjoyed both the 35 mm f/1.4 and the 16-35 f/4 as single walkabout lenses.

If I were to pick just one, I suppose the 35 mm would get the nod because it has some special sauce baked in.

-Bill
Ah, the 35. Yes, hearing a lot about that one. I suppose 35mm is also the best single focal length if one wanted a prime as the walkabout lens.

Pradeep
 

turtle

New member
35mm f2.8 would be my walkaround. Nice and smal and I can shoot almost anything on a 35mm, although this one may be more like 37mm!
 

ggibson

Well-known member
Here's a link to a comparison of the Batis 25/2 against the Sony 16-35/4 and 24-70/4:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dierktopp/sets/72157654089703684

I just looked at the f8 samples, but my take was that the Batis 25 was #1, followed VERY closely by the 16-35/4. Close enough that you might not be able to spot the difference in a blind A/B test. The 24-70/4 looked good in the center, but degraded quite a bit in the corners.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Here's a link to a comparison of the Batis 25/2 against the Sony 16-35/4 and 24-70/4:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dierktopp/sets/72157654089703684

I just looked at the f8 samples, but my take was that the Batis 25 was #1, followed VERY closely by the 16-35/4. Close enough that you might not be able to spot the difference in a blind A/B test. The 24-70/4 looked good in the center, but degraded quite a bit in the corners.
I think the thing to keep in mind is that the best apertures on the 25 Batis are f/4-5.6. Even they aren't worlds better than the lens is about half a stop down from wide open.
 

Pradeep

Member
35mm f2.8 would be my walkaround. Nice and smal and I can shoot almost anything on a 35mm, although this one may be more like 37mm!
I've got that one and have done a lot of shooting with it, walking around the street and monuments around crowds of tourists where you really don't have much options. It is also good for candids of people where a large lens would be obtrusive.

I found it distorts more and there are color casts at times. It is sharp enough in the center though. I agree, it is probably the perfect size for the A7 series, if only it were possible for the other lenses to be this compact and light.
 

Pradeep

Member
Pradeep, I'd choose the FE 24-70mm f/4. Good lens for walk-around photography. It's the lens I use for family events, suburban walk-around, and IR. If I need to shoot in really low light and/or achieve some bokeh, the lens would be the 35mm f/1.4.

BTW, since Zeiss has several well-corrected super-wide lens designs in their archives, I predict that we'll see some of those <25mm designs in the Batis or Loxia E mount families in the future. Keep hope alive. :)

Joe
Yup, hope springs eternal. These are good times.....
 

davidstock

New member
I'm still a bit bummed out about the Batis 85mm's pincushion distortion. The early jpeg samples I'm seeing aren't helping.

Uncorrected, for the kinds of things I shoot, the distortion is...Well, it's ugly, IMO. What will happen to the lens' resolution when it's corrected? That's a big question mark for me. Maybe I'll be convinced, and move into the "new era" of lens design. Or maybe not.

I'm waiting for somebody to test this aspect of the lens. Or at least kindly supply a nice detailed uncorrected raw file of a rectilinear subject, so I can try to figure it out myself using manual corrections.

It's understandable that most of the attention goes elsewhere, since so many people have been waiting for a fastish portrait lens for the FE bodies. Many photographers want to know first of all how the Batis 85 works wide open; how the bokeh looks. (All good, as expected.)

But hey, some of us landscape folks like Zeiss lenses, too! (Sob!)

I want the Batis for its modest size, weight and, hopefully, optical quality across the frame. But I'll have to lug another lens around if the Batis can't hold its own for urban landscape.

Time, and testing, will tell.

--d
 

turtle

New member
I the not exactly huge Leica WATE perform just fine on the A7 cameras, I have no doubt we will see an 18mm Batis, or thereabouts. I also suspect that Zeiss will 'reinforce success' and push out a 35mm f1.8 to offer something in between the tiny 35mm f2.8 Sonnar and the much larger 35mm f1.4 distagon. Total guesswork, but it would make sense for them to produce a full line (50mm f1.4?), despite Sony's Zeiss branded offerings in those focal lengths.
 

miska

Member
It will be interesting to see if the Batis range takes over the Loxias, or if Zeiss will keep producing both series.
Somehow, it doesn't make sense to have the same focal range covered twice, on the other hand, perhaps the Loxias cost almost nothing to Zeiss, since they pretty much are adaptations of the ZM range (so very minimal R&D cost).
 

turtle

New member
That's what I am thinking, Miska. My logic is this:

The FE/E mount is going to grow like wildfire in the next 5 years. I could be wrong, but I think my money would be safe.
Zeiss is aiming to exploit this.
The Loxias are great, but they are niche lenses that were easy to Zeiss to get out the door in the early days, but they have limited mass appeal.
The reception to the Batis lenses has been superb. Lots of excitement. People even like the manual focus implimentation.

Therefore....

Sony will continue to cover the budget/standard lenses.
Sony Zeiss and G lenses will be deconflicted in terms of spec with Zeiss Batis offerings.
Zeiss will push out a more extensive Batis line with priority over Loxias, because the Batis line will sell much better.
Zeiss may then expand the Loxia line for videographers and MF fans if they are confident it will not sabotage their Batis sales.

The Batis line is what most premium buyers have been looking for, I think. They are a high performance compromise in terms of aperture and size and I could see the same thinking being extended from 18mm up to 135mm, potentially. Nothign too fast or too big, but superb technical performance. Let's see!
 

Pradeep

Member
I'm still a bit bummed out about the Batis 85mm's pincushion distortion. The early jpeg samples I'm seeing aren't helping.

Uncorrected, for the kinds of things I shoot, the distortion is...Well, it's ugly, IMO. What will happen to the lens' resolution when it's corrected? That's a big question mark for me. Maybe I'll be convinced, and move into the "new era" of lens design. Or maybe not.

I'm waiting for somebody to test this aspect of the lens. Or at least kindly supply a nice detailed uncorrected raw file of a rectilinear subject, so I can try to figure it out myself using manual corrections.
........................
I want the Batis for its modest size, weight and, hopefully, optical quality across the frame. But I'll have to lug another lens around if the Batis can't hold its own for urban landscape.

Time, and testing, will tell.

--d
David, from what I've seen, the Batis 85 does not produce that much pincushioning. I will do some more tests and can send a RAW file to you. Yes, it is not perfect, but pretty close to it.

I too am looking for the smallest package with the best quality, it has been a long road, but we are getting there and I have faith :)
 
Ario, could you provide the EXIF information for those two shots. I was able to extract the shutter speed but not aperture, exposure bias or ISO. Thanks. Hand-held?

Joe
Sure, the first one is f: 3.5 ISO 100, the second one is f:8.0 ISO 160. Both hand-held, the camera was A7M2 (i realize now I misplaced the sample shots).
 
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