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Batis 25/f2 and 85/f1.8 on the A7R, first impressions

Pradeep

Member
So I got my lenses today. There was not too much time to test but I did manage a few comparisons.

The Batis 25 f2:

This is an absolute no brainer. I would say it is a must buy for anybody looking for the best and sharpest wide angle on the A7R. I compared it to my 16-35 Sony/Zeiss f4 set at 25mm and there is simply no comparison.

Sharpness: At f2 it is sharper than the Sony at f4 (both wide open) in the center as well as corners. The Sony never catches up, while the Batis gets a bit sharper up to say f4-5.6 beyond which there is not much improvement. Even when fully stopped down at f22, I did not notice much diffraction.
Contrast: Zeiss wins hands down, the color is also much better, seems like there is a foggy film in front of the Sony in comparison.
Vignetting: Slight (half stop) at f2, gone by f2.8
CA: Well, the only thing it does worse than the Sony is that it has more CA, which almost disappears at f5.6 and is completely gone at f8.
Flare: I shot directly into the sun and was pleasantly surprised to note that there was minimal flare if any while the Sony had huge flare issues.
Distortion: Minimal to none

The weight and heft are better than the 16-35 and the focus ring is so smooth. Did not test the AF much.

Tomorrow I will test it against the Canon 16-35 f4 IS and the 24-70MkII with the Metabones adapter. I also tested it against an older Zeiss 21 f2.8 Biogon, will evaluate those images later.

The Batis 85 f1.8:

Have not had much time with this one. I did compare it briefly with my Leica 90 Elmarit and both are about equal in terms of sharpness -center and edge, interestingly, the Zeiss is able to provide as good an image at f1.8 as the Leica at 2.8 (both wide open). Will do some more testing tomorrow.

Surprisingly, both the 25 and the 85 are very similar in size and weight.

A couple of images, straight out of the camera, no sharpening, no exposure adjustments, just corrected the rotation a bit. Both with the 85 at f1.8. The bokeh is beautiful.
 

Attachments

Pradeep

Member
Checking out the images again, it seems I was a bit unfair to the Sony 16-35, shooting into the sun, the flare resulted in some loss of sharpness, however, evaluating images not taken into the sun, there is still a significant advantage to the Batis. This one is really a keeper. Compared to the Zeiss Biogon 21/2.8 it is sharper, more contrasty and overall better. The former is smaller but you then need an adapter and lose AF, it has more vignetting too (it also costs more than the Batis).
 

The Ute

Well-known member
Checking out the images again, it seems I was a bit unfair to the Sony 16-35, shooting into the sun, the flare resulted in some loss of sharpness, however, evaluating images not taken into the sun, there is still a significant advantage to the Batis. This one is really a keeper. Compared to the Zeiss Biogon 21/2.8 it is sharper, more contrasty and overall better. The former is smaller but you then need an adapter and lose AF, it has more vignetting too (it also costs more than the Batis).
If you have the Sony 28 f2 would love to see it compared w the 25 Batis.
Also against the Sigma 24mm 1.4 Art

Thanks for the feedback.
 
...Compared to the Zeiss Biogon 21/2.8 it is sharper, more contrasty and overall better. The former is smaller but you then need an adapter and lose AF, it has more vignetting too (it also costs more than the Batis)....
Thank you for the excellent report. I assume you mean the ZM 21/2.8, which is definitely not optimized for the A7 series. Looking forward to your comparison against the two Canon lenses.
 

philip_pj

New member
Always good to hear and see first impressions, thank you.
The Batis is 475g, the Elmarit 410 grams, no big deal, and the same with adapter on the M. The major difference users will see - beyond AF/MF, speed and OIS and no adapter - is the lack of midfield curvature at f1.8-f2.8 which sorrowfully plagues so many Leica M lenses, even the short telephotos. Plus speed of operation and stability. TBH, it may be hard to take a poor shot with it. I have done a lot of looking and its bokeh and warmer tone rendering are better than the Otus 85 - to me.

You will definitely notice the difference if you place a subject - say a pretty woman (!) half way out from the center towards the wide edge - even at f1.8 the Batis is absolutely world class in this respect, and the profile will make it even better, as distortion correction mostly robs only the far outer frame, still great even so. Since I need this 'all of frame' capability, and can't choose very often in my street work, I am looking forward to it with licked lips. Also, the Batis remains tidy at small apertures, f5.6-f8, the small residual curvature disappears entirely. In Aust the delivery is drifting further back. I should get an early one, but right now it's out to October. :sleep:

To get final kudos, the 25/2 must climb above the Distagon 21/2.8, not the ray angle challenged Biogon. But the 25mm is a very different lens, smaller, better FL (for me), lighter, faster, no adapter, great from f2, 335 grams, it's quite the package, and a great choice. So the message of both Batises is this - high IQ versatility at an affordable price! cheers.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I have a lot of samples to post and Raw's. I'll get to it later today.
 
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Pradeep

Member
If you have the Sony 28 f2 would love to see it compared w the 25 Batis.
Also against the Sigma 24mm 1.4 Art

Thanks for the feedback.
Sorry, do not have those. I did check it against my Leica 28 Elmarit but I had dropped the Leica a while ago and I am sure that knocked it off a bit, because the edge is much softer than I remember.

- - - Updated - - -

I have a lot of samples to post and Raw's. I'll get to it later today.
Looking forward to it Guy. My testing is very basic and done in the backyard mostly. More like an impression than a real comparison.
 

Pradeep

Member
Always good to hear and see first impressions, thank you.
The Batis is 475g, the Elmarit 410 grams, no big deal, and the same with adapter on the M. The major difference users will see - beyond AF/MF, speed and OIS and no adapter - is the lack of midfield curvature at f1.8-f2.8 which sorrowfully plagues so many Leica M lenses, even the short telephotos. Plus speed of operation and stability. TBH, it may be hard to take a poor shot with it. I have done a lot of looking and its bokeh and warmer tone rendering are better than the Otus 85 - to me.

You will definitely notice the difference if you place a subject - say a pretty woman (!) half way out from the center towards the wide edge - even at f1.8 the Batis is absolutely world class in this respect, and the profile will make it even better, as distortion correction mostly robs only the far outer frame, still great even so. Since I need this 'all of frame' capability, and can't choose very often in my street work, I am looking forward to it with licked lips. Also, the Batis remains tidy at small apertures, f5.6-f8, the small residual curvature disappears entirely. In Aust the delivery is drifting further back. I should get an early one, but right now it's out to October. :sleep:

To get final kudos, the 25/2 must climb above the Distagon 21/2.8, not the ray angle challenged Biogon. But the 25mm is a very different lens, smaller, better FL (for me), lighter, faster, no adapter, great from f2, 335 grams, it's quite the package, and a great choice. So the message of both Batises is this - high IQ versatility at an affordable price! cheers.
I did not see much field curvature with the 90 Elmarit but will look for it again. I must confess, it has been the least used of my Leica glass.

I agree, the best part of the deal with the Batis lenses is the price - well worth the money, all things considered.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Okay kids . Some real quickies . Ill give you raws to play with. So far its really freaking good.























Some thoughts I already posted

Okay you have to be in Manual focus mode to make the changes by default it is set to MF only so start there get to infinity than turn another 360 degrees. Its funny it did not say be in MF mode in the instructions. So take note of this. First off the lens is very lightweight and to me at least pretty small. I come from 85 1.4 so take that with a grain of salt. I have the vertical grip on at its a perfect balance. It looks very sharp , focuses fairly quick in all AF modes with Phase on and off. I just shot a bunch of quickies and it seemed to keep up nicely even focus tracking. Okay lunch than I will upload. This thing is going to scream with the new A7RII

I have some more images to post in morning. I did want to mention manual focus fly by wire here. It's not really bad at all focusing at 100 percent to your eye. Something you have to get used too but it is accurate. When I sell my A7ii when the A7rII comes I'll use that money for the 25. After this gig the A7II will hit the market. Weird thing is here is I see no pre-orders shipped yet but small venders getting 2 each. Mine came from Allens Camera they got 2 each.

Here are the raws above. Play around

https://www.hightail.com/download/bXBiZGVmcGs1Ujd2WnNUQw
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
working on more images now. AFC tracking is really good I tested it a couple times and seems to track very well. Should be far better with the A7RII over the A7III which these are shot with
 

biglouis

Well-known member
Great colouration to these samples and the 85/1.8 really seems to have the kind of 'pop' normally associated with Leica lenses.

I only hope this means my 25/2 on pre-order is going to show soon, this week would ideal.

LouisB
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Pradeep & Guy,

Thanks for posting first impressions, comparisons and photos using the two Batis lenses. With B&H moving its availability date to mid-August, I'll have to live vicariously through your experiences until then. Post more images. I'm drooling already.

Joe
Picked up both of mine today too.

Joe if you're near Raleigh you may want to call Southeastern Camera. That's where mine were bought but were paid for back in April. They were allocated 6 of each including the demos but only mine came in but there's a chance that more will be in soon.
 
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davidstock

New member
Thanks for the files! Color and sharpness look great. When they open in ACR, the files apparently have CA correction already applied in camera. But not distortion correction.

I find some of the pincushion distortion disturbing on the buildings and utility poles. No big surprise; we knew it was gonna be there. I'm finding that distortion can be manually semi-corrected at around slider value -5 to -7, depending on the situation. This puts the 85 in the same range as the 70-200 G at certain focal lengths.

I'm sure you have other things to do than make samples for us. But if you do get to shoot some squared-up architecture, I would love to see images with distortion correction enabled in camera. If the corners are still sharp, I'm good to go.

--d
 

Pradeep

Member
Awesome images Guy. Keep em coming.

I did some more comparisons this morning with the Canon 24-70 MkII and the 16-35 f4 (the 25/2).

Also ran the 85/1.8 against the Leica 90 elmarit again, and the Canon 70-200 f4 IS, the Canon 100 2.8 Macro, the Sony/Zeiss 24-70 2.8

In all instances, the new Batis lenses outperform anything else that I have currently - both in center sharpness and edges. On doing more comparisons with the Sony 16-35 f4, the Sony is actually quite sharp for a zoom, but it falls down in increased distortion, much more flare, somewhat softer edges and needs to stop down for center sharpness where the Batis still does a bit better.

It is amazing how sharp the 25 is wide open, but at f4-5.6 even the edges are superb. Will be a great lens for night photography.
 

Pradeep

Member
Thanks for the files! Color and sharpness look great. When they open in ACR, the files apparently have CA correction already applied in camera. But not distortion correction.

I find some of the pincushion distortion disturbing on the buildings and utility poles. No big surprise; we knew it was gonna be there. I'm finding that distortion can be manually semi-corrected at around slider value -5 to -7, depending on the situation. This puts the 85 in the same range as the 70-200 G at certain focal lengths.

I'm sure you have other things to do than make samples for us. But if you do get to shoot some squared-up architecture, I would love to see images with distortion correction enabled in camera. If the corners are still sharp, I'm good to go.

--d
David, not the best of images, but here are a couple of shots of my garage. The first one is with the 25/f2 at f4, the second with the 85/1.8 at 1.8 Lens correction in camera disabled, none applied in LR either. Just as it came out (there is a default intake sharpness applied in LR to all images and I've left it at that). No color or exposure corrections done.

The building is over 60 yrs old and the roof line sags in the middle, that is not distortion, it will appear exaggerated with pincushioning as it does here.

As far as I can tell, there is minimal barrel distortion with the 25 and again slight pincushioning with the 85. These should be easily correctible.
 

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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thanks for the files! Color and sharpness look great. When they open in ACR, the files apparently have CA correction already applied in camera. But not distortion correction.

I find some of the pincushion distortion disturbing on the buildings and utility poles. No big surprise; we knew it was gonna be there. I'm finding that distortion can be manually semi-corrected at around slider value -5 to -7, depending on the situation. This puts the 85 in the same range as the 70-200 G at certain focal lengths.

I'm sure you have other things to do than make samples for us. But if you do get to shoot some squared-up architecture, I would love to see images with distortion correction enabled in camera. If the corners are still sharp, I'm good to go.

--d
David I did this handheld since I did not bring my tripod. Obviously some question marks on things lining up correctly. Looks pretty good but Im still working on a better shot.

I drew in red lines to give us some idea.

 
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