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Here we go again...

Jim DE

New member
Anyone else noticing the number of complaints about the a7rII on other forums are mostly operator user oops and migrating users complaining of things it doesn't have like their other manufacturer cameras had? I remember really seeing this when the original NEX5 was introduced. I think this body because of all the discussion on how well it functions with Canon and Nikon glass may even experience even more of this sort of mud slinging than the NEX5 did.

Just amazes me .. Everyone could read its features prior to purchase and would know what it had or didn't but here comes in the con column issues that should of been known coming in or issues if they would of used the manual they would of avoided.

One site in particular has some real mega minds that get far too deep into the tech end that I don't think they could ever be happy with any camera made by anyone anywhere. I read their babble and just walk away shaking my head in amazement.

For me if a camera has great IQ and fits my needs and wants its a great camera. All cameras are compromises and we work to their strengths and away from their weaknesses or find work arounds. I have been like that since my first Honeywell Spotmatic to today. But the world is a complex place and full of a variety of people with a even more complex mental array of thinking patterns and the way they achieve their expectations. I do wish though that some would become more involved with the spec sheet gong in and the manual once they commit and get their new gear. Imo the complaints like those noted here just cloud the waters and raise too many false flags. Now if someone finds a legacy lens that works or doesn't that was not know going in or a feature that was or wasn't mentions in the specs those type complaints or accolades give value.

Mine is 30 miles away and on the move and from what I see is going to be my definition of a great camera ;) This comment is brought to you by a guy waiting on a delivery truck and observations he see's around the web so it may well just be anxious babble ;) ;) ;)
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Jim let me step up to the podium here and give the sermon of the day. Hold on tight. Lol

First ignore the chowder heads. Yea there brains are of that consistency. I have said this several times and people grasping the concept just refuse to pay attention. Sony builds for Sony , sells Sony cameras , Sony lenses and Sony accessories. Key word here is Sony . There not building for Leica M lenses, canon or any other brand. Here is the key if your freaking 3rd party lens is working on any Sony body than my friend you just got a bonus but never a right of passage. Your cheating and that's great but do not expect any support along the way. It's a freaking gift get it through your bloody head . I keep hearing Sony markets this, well of course they do but if you don't get a 3 party adapter you can't play either and Sony will most likely be offering folks like Metabones there support but the will never ever offer a Canon lens support directly.

Now second part of this is the fact you spend X dollars and maybe well above your pay grade and you want everything including the kitchen sink and a toilet bowl to go with it. That's not going to happen. You clearly know the costs , the specs and what you are getting for your money. But it's never enough your a bloody pig and want to draw blood from a turnip. Sony will never win the day here, people expect discounts, freebies and worse the right to bitch daily about nothing.

That was Part A . Depending on mood I may add a part b.

Generally speaking not at Jim directly here
 
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Jim let me add as your waiting for that truck. You bought what you thought was going to be a answer to your own needs. Trust me you bought well. Why you ask I can say that because it's what we wanted in the first place and better. Go seize the day my friend with your new cam, your going to love it. Hell if I had the cash I buy a second one

Oh that was Espresso number 1 I get to three I might have to be censored. I know it's annoying as hell reading this stuff but than you come back here and the tranqlizer kicks back in and your at peace with nice reasonable folks here. I'm with you on that one
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Jim, I have no idea what you are referring to. But that NEX-5 was a POC in the whole of Sony NEX line up. Shot gun shutter and that sensor that got dumped by Sony themselves very quickly.

They have come a long way with the A7r II with a brand new sensor that isn't taken from a Nikon camera of yester years. :thumbs:

Since it (E mount cameras) is actually being treated seriously by Sony nowadays, it is bound to attract attacks from other brand afficianados. Given that the system still relies on EOS, etc mount lenses that are affordable and plenty, I would expect more of this.

Let us hope that there will be an affordable bunch of compact f/2 primes like the Sony FE 28/2 soon.
 

Viramati

Member
Have just got mine and in the immortal words of Steve Huff "WOW, AMAZING, WOW, THE BEST EVER, WOW' Will try to be more scientific later.:)
 

Jim DE

New member
Jim, I have no idea what you are referring to. But that NEX-5 was a POC in the whole of Sony NEX line up. Shot gun shutter and that sensor that got dumped by Sony themselves very quickly.

They have come a long way with the A7r II with a brand new sensor that isn't taken from a Nikon camera of yester years. :thumbs:

Since it (E mount cameras) is actually being treated seriously by Sony nowadays, it is bound to attract attacks from other brand afficianados. Given that the system still relies on EOS, etc mount lenses that are affordable and plenty, I would expect more of this.

Let us hope that there will be an affordable bunch of compact f/2 primes like the Sony FE 28/2 soon.

Hey, hey, hey.... easy on the old tool :eek:...... remember it started this path! Sure it wasn't perfect but man it got us all out of the box mentality and saw a potential product in the future as it opened up the word of digital imaging for nearly every lens made. I still have and use the ole NEX5 (albeit as a underwater camera but it is still used) and even a old a33 with the same sensor remains my portable flash use camera of choice with a strobinar grip with a Minolta 28-75mm f2.8 lens and a Minolta flash high mounted. Not that I am much into photo competitions nor do I believe a good image is rarely the results of equipment but a sunrise scenic with my old NEX5 and a CG 45mm has done very well in a worldwide competition held by our photo society. POC might be a bit harsh imo it was a gateway camera which has opened the door to our current mirrorless Sony technologies. Hey a pinhole camera to some was a poc but it too was a ground breaking gateway technology that has led to where we are today.... as well as created some historically admired images.

All that said..... I do understand your position and to me sensor wise the NEX7 stepped backwards a half a step which improved with the 5n. :eek:

Guy, I am confident I will be happy with this new body ... otherwise I never would of pre-ordered it and researched it and the trends Sony has established with it's past a7x launches. I don't expect a miracle box that I can just take out of a case and it will expel Ansel Adams level images one right after another without any human contact ;) All I was noting was that this body like the NEX5 will be drawing a bunch of crossover photographers from the other brands and we are starting to see the same type misinformation type complaints and moaning on the other forums on the web. Some of the comments I see just have me rubbing my head in a daze.

Oh my a7rII is out for delivery .......sadly with this shipper that means at my location from 9am-8pm it could arrive :(
 

stephen.s1

Member
Not quite how I go again. I have a 35mm Loxia which I assume is completely compatible with earlier 7 series cameras. When Sony built the 7rII they rendered the enlarged view (when focusing) unusable. Any of you who feel this is important should think twice before planning on using your Loxia. Just a heads up...

Unless I'm missing something with this new camera.... :)
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Not quite how I go again. I have a 35mm Loxia which I assume is completely compatible with earlier 7 series cameras. When Sony built the 7rII they rendered the enlarged view (when focusing) unusable. Any of you who feel this is important should think twice before planning on using your Loxia. Just a heads up...

Unless I'm missing something with this new camera.... :)
I think you are missing something... I think you're missing that you can turn off the setting that automatically zooms in for focus when you turn the ring.
 

jamato8

New member
I think that if people had started when they had to use one or 2 lenses, view through a tine viewfinder like on a Leica IIIC or use an on old range finder that was all mechanical, they would realize how lucky they are. I would love all my lenses to work on the A7RII but they won't, big deal. There are so many options now. And the A7RII is one of the first digital cameras that from what I have seen, doesn't give that digital cut out look to images. But some prefer to gripe than use that energy to get out and shoot. I go out most every day for a 2 to 4 mile hike, and this is often cross country in the desert so it isn't some easy stuff but it is finding nature and also what can be beautiful to make an image of. I look forward to what the A7RII "does" do.
 

stephen.s1

Member
I think you are missing something... I think you're missing that you can turn off the setting that automatically zooms in for focus when you turn the ring.
I do understand that. But, when it's able to work, it makes things so much easier.

I never said it made the lens unusable. I use my 90mm in AF and MF, and when in MF that enlarged view is soooo nice. Ah well, upward and onward.

BTW jamato8, I've got 82 birthdays under my feet, and have been shooting for 72 of them. So, I do understand how limited we used to be. Those days are long gone!!

Thanks to you both for your input.
 

jamato8

New member
I do understand that. But, when it's able to work, it makes things so much easier.

I never said it made the lens unusable. I use my 90mm in AF and MF, and when in MF that enlarged view is soooo nice. Ah well, upward and onward.

BTW jamato8, I've got 82 birthdays under my feet, and have been shooting for 72 of them. So, I do understand how limited we used to be. Those days are long gone!!

Thanks to you both for your input.
I think I may have spoke too soon on the camera. I have the adapters for the EOS and the Leica and Leica works fine, not much there but the Metabones IV with the latest .41 SW isn't doing so hot. I have a couple of the EOS lenses, the 35L and the 24-70 II doing ok but many very new lenses like the 11-24L and the 100-400L II aren't doing that well. They work fantastic on the 5DIII and Sony has said there are many lenses that will work with the A7RII but these aren't doing that great, poor actually. The 135L, no go, 100L macro, poor, and so on.

Also if you switch your viewfinder to normal, acquire is faster. Slower with high quality view.
 

Jim DE

New member
Guy, I like this bad boy big time!!!! From a informal shot at a light color wall even my CG28 appears to be ok though those little tabs kinda worry me as they extend about a 1/16th of a inch more inboard of my Kipon adapter. Still a early test but I really don't have much of a need for it with as good as this 16-35 seems. I will throw it in the bag and test it later as time permits. The extension with the sense seemingly right there is a bit of a concern though I really do not know just how much clearance there is.

My issue is getting used to either my C1 or the LR6 as I have been a die in the wool Aperture user till now but I knew this day would come. I did cheat a bit and loved the images in both LR6 and C1 and let it do it's auto stuff and exported them as TIF's to my aperture software to play with ;)

As far as the camera? Man it is nice!!! Bit different than my other A and apc E mounts but not difficult to adapt to.

It's a keeper......... as I expected! Now if I get blessed with some good weather I will be a happy camper.
 

Annna T

Active member
Not quite how I go again. I have a 35mm Loxia which I assume is completely compatible with earlier 7 series cameras. When Sony built the 7rII they rendered the enlarged view (when focusing) unusable. Any of you who feel this is important should think twice before planning on using your Loxia. Just a heads up...

Unless I'm missing something with this new camera.... :)
Why is it unusable ? Lack of details/precision ? Too much noise ?

From what I have read, Sony has changed the default IQ of the EVF : on the A7r it is set to high IQ by default : this means that the refresh rate is slower and you get a small delay, a small time lapse between what the EVF shows and what succeed in the scene, but the EVF shows more details. You use high IQ for MF for still lifes, macro and when you don't care for the decisive moment. You use the standard IQ when you are shooting action or for the decisive moment and thus need a faster refresh rate. But this comes at the expense of resolution and makes MF more difficult.

It seems that on the A7r2 Sony made the standard IQ and faster refresh rate the default. So may be just check that you have set that EVF option to high IQ on the A7r2 too, because it isn't the default on that camera.

Another issue may be in low light where the ISO are cranked up and you get too much noise (snow) in the EVF. This is more difficult to get rid off. But there is an option that can help : if you have the EVF "show effects" set to "on" and your aperture is small, then it will be more noisy. In this case, setting show effects to off may help a little, because the lens will remain wide open until you snap the release button.
 

Jim DE

New member
Nice to see the majority of "witch hunter's" have moved along getting ready for their next new camera to be released to validate their existence. Seems to be a rush for them to be the first to find any kind of issue (real or not) with any new body released. I guess I will never understand their mindset on this. A camera is a tool and none of them do everything better than any other tool ever made.

I like my a7rII. It feels good and solid in my hand and does everything I have required it to do......... This is my first a7x body so I cannot comment on how is is better or worse with anything specific to the other bodies in this series. My only non Minolta/Sony body in the past 10 years has been a Sigma DP2m so I cannot compare the a7rII to any other manufacturers tools or their file types. All I can say is I get paid well near daily for my images and my tools are Sony and have never once had a complaint. That is good enough for me ........ I now will build my FE lens arsenal and shoot the heck out of this body and pay no attention to the witch hunters on the web.

As of right now I am using my C1 software as my RAW converting software and migrating the Tif files to Aperture as a temporary solution to this RAW file on the a7rII. Not a permanent solution but one I can live with till I get as comfortable with C1 as I am with Aperture. I ruled out LR as Adobe IMO: with the monthly leases, world worse customer service, horrible (for me) UI, etc... is a company I want to no longer continue with as I may have to use CS/PS software over the years 2-3 times per year. My hope is C1 offers a better filing system similar to Apertures and that I get much more comfortable with the C1 UI. Thanks to all for their suggestions on a suitable replacement software for my Aperture...... it was much appreciated but in the end my long term issues with Adobe and their products was something I just could not get myself to forget about. Jack and Guy.... now you need to get C1 to build a great filing system. :)
 

algrove

Well-known member
I ruled out LR as Adobe IMO: with the monthly leases, world worse customer service, horrible (for me) UI, etc... is a company I want to no longer continue with as I may have to use CS/PS software over the years 2-3 times per year. My hope is C1 offers a better filing system similar to Apertures and that I get much more comfortable with the C1 UI. Thanks to all for their suggestions on a suitable replacement software for my Aperture...... it was much appreciated but in the end my long term issues with Adobe and their products was something I just could not get myself to forget about. Jack and Guy.... now you need to get C1 to build a great filing system. :)
I proabably will migrate like you to C1 also since it appears anyone who "buys" LR and PS will no longer get ACR and gear updates. That was a shocker to me. So spend $150 on LR and $500 on PS and get screwed because you don't subscribe to the $10/month CC. We all know once they get x% who have switched then the monthly sum will begin to rise and never stop.

I just hope C1 does not go the same route.
 

Malina DZ

Member
Anyone else noticing the number of complaints about the a7rII on other forums are mostly operator user oops and migrating users complaining of things it doesn't have like their other manufacturer cameras had? I remember really seeing this when the original NEX5 was introduced...
NEX/E-mount line has been targeting "losers" since its introduction.
The a7 line is facing the same dilemma of ignorance Sony was trying to solve with E-mount in this marketing campaign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taLEf2F3SbE
So, Sony deserves the rant it gets online from its customers, especially when it doesn't bother to include a user manual booklet in the box.
Check out this thread to realize how deep the PDAF back hole mystery is:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/55653-a7rii-sony-mount-include-sigma-tamron-minolta.html
With most of the Sony stores closed in the US and Canada, as well as a global on-line store closing soon, and a wacko "Pro Support" requirements, one must be clueless to rely on Sony for a prompt professional support with gear repair/exchange/loans/tutorials.
I went to a local BestBuy store to check out a7RII since they had a separate dedicated to Sony cameras stand last time I visited. Turned out there are only a7 mk1 available on display, not even an a7mkII and no Zeiss lenses to try.
 

Jim DE

New member
I think we will agree to disagree on just about every point you made... We are on complete opposite ends of this subject.

The only item we might have a similar feeling about is the warranty service in the USA. I am a Pro Service Support member due to their outsourcing their repairs to a know east coast shop with many documented customer satisfaction issues. I had no problems becoming a SPSS member and it took about 10 days to get my card. I have backups for my backups so loaners are not something I need or even want.

I don't like that they closed their stores and are closing their online store but I do not know if these were profitable or not. I'll say this I have never seen a Canikon company brick and mortar store either so there must be a reason. I don't think I would ever go to Best Buy for anything none the less a higher newly released camera or lens.

The rest of your points I will just leave alone as they are opinions and everyone is entitled to their own. I know I have made a bunch of money using, as you call it, "Loser" targeted hardware.
 
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