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An interesting Review of a7rII

Amin

Active member
Ming Thein said:
Sadly, the A7RII is not a camera that gives me any pleasure to shoot at the moment, and it bothers me that I cannot put my finger on exactly why. Logically, it ticks all the boxes. Yet it does not inspire goad you on…
... I just cannot have an emotional connection with that camera because you cannot help feel that it was designed by a consumer electronics company.

Do you see what you and Ming both did there with your pronouns? You can't connect to the camera, so we can't help feel a certain way? No, you can't connect, so you can't help feel a certain way.

I felt an immediate connection to my A7RII. I think Sony has a lot of Minolta DNA and knows cameras and lenses very well :thumbup:.
 

rayyan

Well-known member
For myself, I consider Ming to be one of the very very few photographer/reviewers whose columns I read.
Don't trash Ming because he might have highlighted shortcomings of your camera.

That is what good reviewers are supposed to do.

p.s I f he seems biased towards Nikon..there is a reason. Nikon really are that good, but not without their own shortcomings.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
The only reason for reading third party reviews, if you already own the camera, is

1. You are so insecure that you are unable to rely upon your own judgement from using the camera; or

2. To find out about hidden or little used features of the camera.

I find the latter useful, but frankly, i couldn't care less whether Ming Thein does or does not like the A7RII. Do you?
Me neither. :)

- - - Updated - - -

This one I think boils down to bad ACR support for the sensor. Just like ACR does weird things with X-Trans.

I believe the raw is pre-cooked, I'd rather it weren't, and that could be the cause of the texture you are referencing, but I think this texture can be avoided in a raw processor-dependent manner.

If I had to use Lightroom, I'd be much less satisfied with A7RII image quality.
If it is precooked it is precooked. Do you believe of any that isn't?
 

Chris Giles

New member
I pretty much feel the same way Ming does about the Sony and share a lot of his thoughts on it.

Doesn't mean it's bashing a camera but it's not something I'd touch for reasons I've said a few times on here before. (So no point repeating the same crap).
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Chris you have your opinion and we respect that . I have a hard time respecting this kind of nonsense

Ming:
after all of this you still want to buy one (and haven’t already) and use one of my links, they are below. Be sure to order extra batteries too; I’ve currently got ten and three chargers because I can shoot through six or more of them in a day; the rest are needed as a buffer in case I can’t charge all of them overnight.


Guy:
Really so when I am out banging 3 to 4 thousand images doing runway on less than 4 batterys you obviously must be shooting what. 6 thousand images in a day. What is he doing charging his car. Most ridiculous comment I read. I never ever got to six in a day, hell never been past four and I shoot 15 thousand image in 3 to 4 days doing runway.

Next quote. Ming
I suspect that given sufficient time, I may come to respect this thing in a rational way – like the original D800E


Guy:
So your obviously being irrational on the topic and BTW Ming the D800 had serious AF issue that got swept under the carpet. I mean serious ones.

Im sorry this is a joke looking for google hits. I read this stuff my antenna starts flashing Bullshit. This is just from one paragraph. Do this guys actually think we are dumb asses.

Thats it Im done , I am a admin here and with all due respect i am out of these discussions , as I can rip these reviews to shreds. Most of them they had the camera less than a day. If you folks knew the back end of owning forums and blogs its all about the google hits , its all about who can say the worst things because people want to read the worst things. Hopefully you are getting a idea of what i am saying without me spelling it all out. MONEY

I should not even post this:banghead:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Ming's reviews are personal statements, which is good, but one has to know his preferences to relate his views to reality. Far too many reviewers write what they think a camera will be like to an average user that they haven't met. I happen mostly to agree with him, but when it comes to this camera, I guess that's not a surprise to members of this forum. I've just bought two new camera bags that are perfect for my antiquated DSLR bodies and lenses :D
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Ming's reviews are personal statements, which is good, but one has to know his preferences to relate his views to reality. Far too many reviewers write what they think a camera will be like to an average user that they haven't met. I happen mostly to agree with him, but when it comes to this camera, I guess that's not a surprise to members of this forum. I've just bought two new camera bags that are perfect for my antiquated DSLR bodies and lenses :D
Hope they are big. ;)
 

Amin

Active member
Thats it Im done , I am a admin here and with all due respect i am out of these discussions , as I can rip these reviews to shreds. Most of them they had the camera less than a day. If you folks knew the back end of owning forums and blogs its all about the google hits , its all about who can say the worst things because people want to read the worst things. Hopefully you are getting a idea of what i am saying without me spelling it all out. MONEY

I should not even post this:banghead:

There's something to this. On one level, all cameras today are really excellent and, in the right hands, can produce superb results. We know that to get traffic and money, one has to have a shtick. That can be every new camera and lens is the new wow. best. ever. Or it can be a grouchy shtick where one likes to pick on certain issues or brands. Truly balanced reviewers aren't gonna do too well in getting word of mouth. Oh well, is what it is, don't let your blood pressure go high over it.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

My main interest in cameras is actually making images. I gladly acknowledge quite a few issues with the A7r, but if it delivers the images I want, I will be quite happy.

Best regards
Erik


I disagree with a lot of it and he is wrong on several points. Another who cares review. I'm actually a bit surprised. He usually is pretty good. Does not even know you can tether in C1.

I have found many reasons in the last week not to read any of these and honestly I'm a much better person for not reading them. It's the worst reportage of any camera that has come to light recently. It tarnishes my lifelong career in this industry as the integrity level sank to a new low. I'm speaking in general terms. I'm going out and shoot a new test.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Completely unrelated but I love you all regardless of your camera choices.

<hugs> :chug:
We love you to my friend. Maybe this is why I never went full circle on reviews. I do them for me and share with you folks. And I love our debates but when the **** starts throwing around the room. My Italian comes to life. LOL
 

spence

New member
Ming is keeping his too. That's what I gathered from the paragraph that begins with "I put up with it because ..." He likes the IBIS, the Zeiss lenses, and the size. It's also on his recommended gear list.
I came away with that same impression. That is high praise for the A7RII, in a way-- despite Ming's litany of complaints, he's keeping it.

Like you said, much of that has to do with the IBIS and high quality lenses. He clearly states that the RAW compression/pre-cooking concerns are outweighed by the focus precision and extra stops you gain with the IBIS, vs. a combo like the D810 + Otus, so that using a significantly lower ISO for a shot with the A7RII becomes a viable option.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Hi,

My main interest in cameras is actually making images. I gladly acknowledge quite a few issues with the A7r, but if it delivers the images I want, I will be quite happy.

Best regards
Erik
Erik really thats the bottom line. Im shooting it Professionally and i have the most to lose if its a screw up because it may involve me messing up a paid gig. Thats deadly but on the other hand I like shooting it, willing to do the workarounds and certainly willing to figure stuff out with folks and come up with the best answers and most of that come from folks like you, that care about it and enjoy shooting it.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
There's something to this. On one level, all cameras today are really excellent and, in the right hands, can produce superb results. We know that to get traffic and money, one has to have a shtick. That can be every new camera and lens is the new wow. best. ever. Or it can be a grouchy shtick where one likes to pick on certain issues or brands. Truly balanced reviewers aren't gonna do too well in getting word of mouth. Oh well, is what it is, don't let your blood pressure go high over it.
Ken Rockwell has his stick and he has made a great living at it. One thing about him though you know the stick going in. So its entertaining at least.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
This one I think boils down to bad ACR support for the sensor. Just like ACR does weird things with X-Trans.

I believe the raw is pre-cooked, I'd rather it weren't, and that could be the cause of the texture you are referencing, but I think this texture can be avoided in a raw processor-dependent manner.

If I had to use Lightroom, I'd be much less satisfied with A7RII image quality.
Yeah, about that...

I've had and used both for years now. All my medium format stuff is in C1 as are tens of thousands of other images, often from cameras that C1 supports first or stuff where I've tried both, or where the tethering seemed easier, whatever. One is never truly truly deeply expert with any of them. And for sure, with many cameras, there is a tiny and sometimes not so tiny benefit to one over the other and that one is, more often than not, Capture One. I don't like using it because over the years it has done some horrible things to me (once losing my LCCs in an upgrade, for example, which was a real bummer) and because it has also, over the years, littered my various hard drives with files in all sorts of unexpected places and even now, refuses (yeah I know I could hunt down and trash some preferences file) to export to any folder other than one I specified years ago, even though I keep on deleting it. So from a usability and DAM and pure reliability point of view, my great great preference is LR even if C1 might have the edge on pure RAW decoding in some circumstances.

Generally it isn't enough of an edge for me to worry about but sometimes I will use it for a stage one RAW decode with all options off, then export to LR for finishing and DAM and for LR printing, which is often very useful.

So of course I have tried this with the Sony files and the files do indeed, out of the can, look better in C1.

85% (roughly) of the reason they look better in C1 is that C1 has, IMHO and for my purposes, less useful sharpening than LR. It seems to have a crude unsharp mask system and in my hands at least, is not as useful for sharpening fine detail - which is really needed with the current state of the art in high mp sensors and very sharp lenses. Another 5% of the benefit is the quite bland profiling, a nice place to start but not to end up.

If I use C1 to export to 16bit Prophoto tiff with no sharpening, corrections or NR and then I import to LR and get the file where I want it in terms of sharpening and NR and profiling, there is almost no benefit remaining.

What I can say with 100% certainty for my own satisfaction is that the orange peel effect is there in C1 as well. It would probably be slightly less pronounced, if one were able to level the playing field which, because of import profiling one cannot do, but it is still there.

Now in many, probably most, cases it doesn't matter. But orange peel it is, and orange peel it stays, and whatever concoction of pre-cooking and compression is responsible for it, C1 is not a magic wand that makes it disappear other, largely, than through low default sharpening and high default NR.

D810 files have a little peel too, if pushed around, but you have to push. With the RII I see it all the time and despite the fact that it generally doesn't matter, like Canon banding, I know it is there...
 
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pegelli

Well-known member
I think he raises some valid points, and I have absolutely no problem with that. I also have no problem with the fact he doesn't "connect" with the camera, I think we all have experienced that with some camera's we have owned.
However the way he is doing it as well as his incomplete knowledge of the camera and its options undermines his credibility.
He talks about how Sony fanboys shouldn't read it because they might not like his conclusions. I think that's a very unprofessional (and childish) thing to say for a professional photographer and reviewer.
 
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