An interesting Review of a7rII

[ohnri]

Ming has always impressed me as a studious technician but this 'review' feels hastily written and pretentious.

For myself, I am getting really lovely images from the A7r2 that I simply would have either struggled to get or missed altogether with my Nikon, Leica or M4/3's gear.

The A7r2 is clearly a top level camera that many pros and enthusiast photographers are already using to great effect. It is allowing me to get shots I could not get with any camera I have ever owned previously.

My A7 was very good at some things but it was not a threat to my D800/D4 twin towers.

The A7r2 has, for me, replaced both, lacking only sports shooting capabilities.

My Samsung NX1 does enough of the sports shooting to fill the gap for my usage.

The next generation of Sony bodies can only be guessed at but I don't think they are letting the pedal off the metal anytime soon.

This reminds me of digital versus film.

Film was clearly better until suddenly it wasn't.

My Nikon gear was clearly better overall until now. Now I feel Sony is better overall. Others will say Nikon is still better.

I think with some better software integration more people would fall onto the Sony side of that fence.

The next generation of Sony cameras might be yet another leap forward.

Frankly, if I were Nikon or Canon I would be more than a little concerned.

As a consumer, I can go wherever the grass is greener so I am quite happy.

-Bill

 

[Slingers]

I don't have a problem with his review as going in I knew he wouldn't like it as his heart has never been with Sony. There seems to be a lot of Zeiss fans moving to the A7 system and a lot of them just don't like Sony but are here for the great Loxia/Batis lenses. I don't think it's as bad as Ken Rockwell's writings but I find Rockwell's site is a good source of data. Every lens on the site is able to be compared in exactly the same way but you just have to ignore the ramblings.

 

[Aaron]

Ming's review is refreshing.
The guy bought the camera with his own money and shows us some great images he's made with it.
He tells us what he doesn't like about the camera but also tells us why he bought it and why why he's keeping it.

His only mistake seems to have been a little blunt and ruffled a few sensitive feathers perhaps.

 

[Amin]

One thing I still don't get though: (nearly) everyone (including I believe yourself, if I correctly recall) has chimed in with their preference for files that are less pre-cooked and have lossless compression. But if you're not seeing the evidence of either these in any of your files, why do you care?

Couple reasons:

1) The principle - I think raw should be as raw as possible. The reason we choose to shoot raw is for maximum flexibility. Same reason I don't like when LR forces me to apply distortion correction to Micro 4/3 files, I don't like Sony using lossy compression

2) Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean I wont. I've seen plenty of examples now. I'm bound to have one of my own sooner or later.

I think most of us would prefer uncooked, lossless raw. It's just that I think most of us don't care a great deal one way or the other and think some of these issues are blown out of proportion* by some.

Same principle applies when I shoot Nikon. I'd love if they offered 16-bit raw and didn't cook the files at all. But they offer 14-bit, and I've always been convinced they do a little cooking too. It's more subtle, but at times (with some of their sensors) there's been an unnatural dearth of color noise.

In all these things, I prefer something even better, but I'm happy with something great.


*Below is an example of what I mean by blown out of proportion. I think you'll recognize the author. Pink highlighting added by me to emphasize what I think of as "soft trolling". Any time a reviewer starts to pre-emptively attack "fanboys", they are (IMO) taking the low road. Isn't it better to rise above?

 

[lambert]

For myself, I consider Ming to be one of the very very few photographer/reviewers whose columns I read.
Don't trash Ming because he might have highlighted shortcomings of your camera.

That is what good reviewers are supposed to do.

p.s I f he seems biased towards Nikon..there is a reason. Nikon really are that good, but not without their own shortcomings.

It is difficult to take Ming or his review seriously when he calls the A7RII a toy. His review reeks of sour grapes.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Hope they are big.

They're like elephants, but I could reduce the weight of the full bag from around ten kilograms to around nine and a half if I change to Sony bodies. I'll consider hiring a whale to carry my gear until I can afford the annual upgrade to a new gizmo

 

[DennisHHH]

Most telling line in review is that "it will be replaced in a year by another consumer disposable camera" ...harsh?

I hate to tell him this but he also will be replaced in another year or two by another disposable photographer, life is harsh especially in the photography business

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

It is difficult to take Ming or his review seriously when he calls the A7RII a toy. His review reeks of sour grapes.

For some of us, "toy" is the first word that springs to mind, and I have used it before about A7 cameras. Clearly, many see it differently, but it probably has to do with usage and whatever personal preferences one has. For me, it makes it a device that I know won't replace my existing cameras, for others, it seems to work very well also as a professional tool.

It's interesting to notice also that Ming, like myself, was uninspired by the D800, but finds the D810 to be totally excellent. For those who only read spec sheets, they seem more or less identical. That shows how subtle changes are often needed to change mediocrity to excellence. This obviously goes for Sony too. What puzzles me is that Sony doesn't do the most obvious changes to capture the rest of the market too. But that's Sony. They go down whatever road they feel for, which is always fascinating

 

[tashley]

For some of us, "toy" is the first word that springs to mind, and I have used it before about A7 cameras. Clearly, many see it differently, but it probably has to do with usage and whatever personal preferences one has. For me, it makes it a device that I know won't replace my existing cameras, for others, it seems to work very well also as a professional tool.

It's interesting to notice also that Ming, like myself, was uninspired by the D800, but finds the D810 to be totally excellent. For those who only read spec sheets, they seem more or less identical. That shows how subtle changes are often needed to change mediocrity to excellence. This obviously goes for Sony too. What puzzles me is that Sony doesn't do the most obvious changes to capture the rest of the market too. But that's Sony. They go down whatever road they feel for, which is always fascinating

So nicely put. The d800 was always a good feature box ticker, but I never loved it. We had a friendly, professional relationship that was never quite warm. The D810 was just 'right' from the get go, and we fell for each other, though I have been unfaithful from time to time.... Those a7 cameras... Their cooking isn't so refined but they sure are slimmer.

 

[Vivek]

Guys, the d810A apparently is a notch above the d810. Waiting for Ming's seal of approval?

 

[tashley]

Guys, the d810A apparently is a notch above the d810. Waiting for Ming's seal of approval?

Not for me. Star trails scare me...

 

[lambert]

What puzzles me is that Sony doesn't do the most obvious changes to capture the rest of the market too. But that's Sony.

You can say the same about every manufacturer. What is Nikon or Canon doing to capture the mirrorless market? Or Olympus, to capture the video market? And so on ...

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

You can say the same about every manufacturer. What is Nikon or Canon doing to capture the mirrorless market? Or Olympus, to capture the video market? And so on ...

My guess when it comes to Canon and Nikon: They are waiting for the technology to mature, and has probably found that releasing new models every 12 months isn't profitable. They have both been experimenting, and if you can imagine a full frame Nikon V3, it would be a very advanced camera already. So far, I have been anticipating a launch within the 2015/16 season, at least for Nikon. Time will show

The difference compared to things like Sony's small battery is that it wouldn't have cost them anything to develop the camera with a larger one, and they do have batteries that could be used.

 

[lambert]

My guess when it comes to Canon and Nikon: They are waiting for the technology to mature, and has probably found that releasing new models every 12 months isn't profitable. They have both been experimenting, and if you can imagine a full frame Nikon V3, it would be a very advanced camera already. So far, I have been anticipating a launch within the 2015/16 season, at least for Nikon. Time will show

The difference compared to things like Sony's small battery is that it wouldn't have cost them anything to develop the camera with a larger one, and they do have batteries that could be used.

Sure, but I (like many) already own suitable batteries and don't want to replace them. And if the only issue with Sony is batteries and RAW compression (resolvable with a likely firmware update) then they are much further along the evolutionary path than Canon and Nikon, which are still stumbling towards the future facing backwards.

 

[rayyan]

Toys. Nikon Df.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Sure, but I (like many) already own suitable batteries and don't want to replace them. And if the only issue with Sony is batteries and RAW compression (resolvable with a likely firmware update) then they are much further along the evolutionary path than Canon and Nikon, which are still stumbling towards the future facing backwards.

But you would have replaced the batteries if the new model came with a bigger, better one, so changing wouldn't have resulted in any negative impact for Sony. Not selling to those who have a need for larger batteries have.

 

[CSP]

all those photography blogs today have more and more in common with the fashion blog world where brands are loved or hated.
furthermore everything is welcomed what draws attention. most of this internet “experts” have build little money making empires
out of nothing and they are keen to keep them alive.

so it is also no suprise that most of this reviewers opinion or as ming likes to calls it “ truth” is in strong contrast
to my experiance using this camera as a tools on a daily basis.

 

[Viramati]

Ming is one of the reviewers that I have more time for and on the whole I think he hits the mark more than others. Yes this one my have been a little hurried but he seem get most of the positives and the negatives and some thing that are maybe wrong. It really takes time to get to grips with a camera like that A7rII and I personally haven't got my head around fully setting it up yet or how to get the best in PP and I have been using sony's since the A7. For example I couldn't agree more with him more on the his review of the Leica Q which I personally regard as being the best digital camera to come out of Leica so far and probably (at least for me) almost the best digital camera out there. As an aside I would encourage anyone to try and get some good Leica DNG files from the net and import them into Lr6 to see how sharp an out of camera image can be!!

 

[rayyan]

I have no reason to question your satisfaction with your camera, in daily use, as you put it.

But on building little money making machines...what is wrong with that. See GetDPI. On the extreme top right hand corner of the landing page, you even have
A ' donate ' link. ( I have donated, a knowing choice I made..I love this forum). But it is a choice..no? No compulsion. Click/bait..again a choice..no compulsion.

More importantly, and to enhance my meager technological understandings, what exactly has Ming wrote in his review that is inaccurate?

Remember, each of us brings our biases to the table. As is seen in this thread too.
But to write and make gross tech inaccuracies renders a review..shall we say...very subjective and without any technical merit.

So, where has Ming made these gross tech error in his review of this camera? And how many? Remember he has bought the camera. He has used it. I like his photography, much more than other so called ' reviewers '.

And, if I may say so, he too is a working pro. And writes his reviews without the benefit of conducting seances or help from the dead.

all those photography blogs today have more and more in common with the fashion blog world where brands are loved or hated.
furthermore everything is welcomed what draws attention. most of this internet “experts” have build little money making empires
out of nothing and they are keen to keep them alive.

so it is also no suprise that most of this reviewers opinion or as ming likes to calls it “ truth” is in strong contrast
to my experiance using this camera as a tools on a daily basis.

 

[Hulyss Bowman]

Well, there is no smoke without fire. I dare to think that most of us (that's kind of elitist but...) are educated enough in photography to want the best out of a tool, especially when you pull the money out for it.

When you buy a canon 5D or Nikon or a Pentax 645Z and they say you have 14 bits datas, YOU have 14 bits datas. You do not even have to think about it. When Hasselblad or Mamyia/Phase say you have 16 bits datas, YOU have 16 bits datas. Raw integrity is at least one nodal point between pros and super serious passionate shooters. And those bits depth are linked to the hardware.

What I found strange is that most of you here, especially the early adopters, are used to far far superior gear such as MFDB or pro DSLR. I thought for a moment that you were sticklers for the purity and quality of the files and the quality of the build. But no, I was wrong. My A7r is a present, but god, I will never buy into this, especially at this price. I find it logic when it can be used as a digital back with super live view on a view camera and stitching, because of the price, or because some have huge collections of different lenses (with no body to go with ???...) but 3200$ for it as a "pro" camera ? never, even in dream. And I have the money to take it right now with batis line. Even the menu is a nightmare one the A7r and it is not that much improved on the markII, as far as I see.

What I see front to it, as very false argument IMHO, is "yea but you have light weight ... ho and DR and stabilisation !!!!!" Seriously guys ??

There is no smoke without fire.

So I understand ppl like to buy new tech and have super fun with it, like HiFi and cars and all, but please do not tell the world it is the best and can replace MFDB or whatever close to those conclusions, because credibility (as pro) vanish like hot air in a balloon.

What should think all those photographers who have good tripod and Alpa products and Rodi lenses ?? You would tell them : "trash it all, you can do the same hand-held with this" ??? C'mon !! It is like giving a Tetley bag of tea to a Japanese traditional family and saying : "trash all your tradition, you can do the same in one minute with this".

They will both stare at you, throwing gasoline on you and set fire while singing Turkey In the Straw.

The best is when I read ppl that you can shoot with this camera in a way you can't before with every other camera. We bet ?? WE BET ???