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An interesting Review of a7rII

pegelli

Well-known member
I've thought some more about this and my summary is as follows:

The A7Rii can do some things better/easier than other cameras
The A7Rii does some other things not as good as some other cameras

If you don't use/like/value the things it does better it might not be for you
If you can't live with the things it does not as good as some others it might not be for you

But if you like what it does better and can live with the tings it does worse it's a pretty nice camera

There's no right or wrong in any of this, everybody makes those decisions for themselves based on their own needs and beliefs.
 

CSP

New member
So, where has Ming made these gross tech error in his review of this camera?
he is wrong in many ways but the most ridiculous point he made is about battery life he claims that he only can get 150-200 images with one battery - sorry, this is simply a lie when you turn airplain mode on i can get around 900 shots with one battery in silent mode maybe less with the regular shutter !
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
What I found strange is that most of you here, especially the early adopters, are used to far far superior gear such as MFDB or pro DSLR. I thought for a moment that you were sticklers for the purity and quality of the files and the quality of the build.
I try to be, but my back and the airlines don't like that about me...
 

rayyan

Well-known member
Nothing to be sorry about. I would be extremely surprised that a reviewer would write such a ' lie '.
I do not have any Sony cameras ( the RX 100..i do have ), so my information is based on various reports, user's inputs etc. over various forums ( I thought they were reputable until you assertion of getting ' 900 ' shots per a fully charged battery..it was fully charged, I presume? ) and numerous posts.

But first let's start with Sony's own engineer's/Executives/marketing personnel in an interview with Thibault Ronald, who, according to himself , is part of the 'Sony Artisans of Imagery Program '...I have not ascertained the accuracy of this statement but have no reason to doubt it. Seems a grand title, though.

Q: What about the battery life?
A: It will be “slightly better than that of the A7R.

Now the most that reviewers have generously said about the A7R battery life has been ' mediocre '. So according to Sony's own answers the A7RII battery life must be
' slightly better than ' mediocre '.

Even with airplane mode on ( you cannot turn chips on/off..you can only disable wifi sending/receiving off/on ), your claim to get 900 shots seems in huge variance with what most observers are reporting. Is your EVF on. Are you using autofocus IBIS on/off. With what lenses are you getting this ' 900 ' shots per charge? I ask this without prejudice, because it is surprising that most users and reviewers find they get much fewer shots per a fully battery.

I shall await your response so that I can put it to Ming directly and ask him for his explanation.

On to other things..What else have you found that is ' wrong in many ways..' as you have stated.

Kindest regards.

All I can say is that
he is wrong in many ways but the most ridiculous point he made is about battery life he claims that he only can get 150-200 images with one battery - sorry, this is simply a lie when you turn airplain mode on i can get around 900 shots with one battery in silent mode maybe less with the regular shutter !
 

CSP

New member
one of my clients is a music and art university so from time to time i also shot classic concerts . i normally don't take so many images but the last concert i shot featured 11 artists.
for me battery life was never a real problem anyway but i actually was suprised about how many images i could take with just one battery. i never used the a7r for this type of work so i have no comparison. on the a7r2 i had the the sony FE 70-200 mounted, silent mode, ibis on, i only use the viewfinder even for chimping. and i did a lot ….


color & shadows & image quality - i would not make comments in this regard based only on experience with one raw converter

speed - the camera is fast enough to shot fast moving musicians like violin players

handling - i have rather large hands but this was never a problem you can make any camera imbalanced with the right lens even a sinar p3 8x10

after reading his text a secound time i have more the impression this is a revange and not a review because he covers nothing what makes this camera superior
to a dslr, he even talks ibis down.


christian
 

ohnri

New member
Well, there is no smoke without fire. I dare to think that most of us (that's kind of elitist but...) are educated enough in photography to want the best out of a tool, especially when you pull the money out for it.

When you buy a canon 5D or Nikon or a Pentax 645Z and they say you have 14 bits datas, YOU have 14 bits datas. You do not even have to think about it. When Hasselblad or Mamyia/Phase say you have 16 bits datas, YOU have 16 bits datas. Raw integrity is at least one nodal point between pros and super serious passionate shooters. And those bits depth are linked to the hardware.

What I found strange is that most of you here, especially the early adopters, are used to far far superior gear such as MFDB or pro DSLR. I thought for a moment that you were sticklers for the purity and quality of the files and the quality of the build. But no, I was wrong. My A7r is a present, but god, I will never buy into this, especially at this price. I find it logic when it can be used as a digital back with super live view on a view camera and stitching, because of the price, or because some have huge collections of different lenses (with no body to go with ???...) but 3200$ for it as a "pro" camera ? never, even in dream. And I have the money to take it right now with batis line. Even the menu is a nightmare one the A7r and it is not that much improved on the markII, as far as I see.

What I see front to it, as very false argument IMHO, is "yea but you have light weight ... ho and DR and stabilisation !!!!!" Seriously guys ??

There is no smoke without fire.

So I understand ppl like to buy new tech and have super fun with it, like HiFi and cars and all, but please do not tell the world it is the best and can replace MFDB or whatever close to those conclusions, because credibility (as pro) vanish like hot air in a balloon.

What should think all those photographers who have good tripod and Alpa products and Rodi lenses ?? You would tell them : "trash it all, you can do the same hand-held with this" ??? C'mon !! It is like giving a Tetley bag of tea to a Japanese traditional family and saying : "trash all your tradition, you can do the same in one minute with this".

They will both stare at you, throwing gasoline on you and set fire while singing Turkey In the Straw.

The best is when I read ppl that you can shoot with this camera in a way you can't before with every other camera. We bet ?? WE BET ???
You would lose that bet with me.

After nearly 50 years of photography I have had the pleasure of using nearly every Nikon since the original F. I started RF cameras with the Leica IIIa, which I still own, and worked though the M9.

I also used plenty of high end 4/3's and m4/3's equipment. Also shot 8mm and 16mm movies and had both wonderful and awful experiences editing film stock, as anyone who has done that would understand.

I will say, without equivocation, that the technical features of the A7r2, combined with the FF sensor and excellent glass allow me to shoot in a way I could not before with any other camera.

Eye Detection plus long arms and a light weight FF body alone gets shots I was never able to achieve before. Flip to 4K video for a moment then over to the best 35/1.4 I have ever shot with, much less at 42 MP, and I have video, frame grabs and images previously impossible for me.

And there is more, my Noctilux, focused perfectly and stabilized at 42 MP, is unique, in my long experience, all by itself.

The list goes on.

I don't doubt that photographers such as yourself find little to justify the great expense of the new Sony.

For me, this unique combination of capabilities in such a lightweight package has allowed me to continue my photographer's journey. That is something I thought unlikely just a few months ago.

I know the A7r2 is not the best for everyone. There are so many excellent cameras out there, how could it be?

But the A7r2 is, hands down, the best overall camera I have ever used.

Regards,

Bill
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Ming sent me a note and was wondering why I said what I did. I appreciate that to be honest. It was not meant as a personal attack on him but anyway I will reply tonight after my day shoot. It's actually one reviewer I actually like so I was a bit surprised by some of his comments. So I will first apologize in public than send him a nice note tonight. Okay time to put this body in full working order today. Real paying gig. LOL

I admit to my real issue with the negative on this release , it's the worst I have seen in recent years. So some of my frustration was thrown his way. For that I'm sorry and I kept saying I should leave this thread. As a admin I should know better
 

rayyan

Well-known member
Christian.

While I do not doubt your experience, as regards the number of shots you got/get per battery charge, I do not doubt Ming's statement that he got the number of shots he got/gets with one fully charged battery, either.

I shall reserve further comment on this subject ( re: battery life ) till I see some more data, specifically from users on this forum ( who I trust and have the said camera ). Even one of our members has mentioned the short life of the battery in his response.

As to your comments that followed the para about battery life.: They unfortunately are just comments. Nothing more. One person's experience with the camera...yours. Just like Ming's experience. But Ming is someone who has got a record of writing reports that are viewed favorably by quite a few knowledgeable people as being generally fair and accurate.

Nothing that actually proves gross tech errors in Ming's report. That is what I wanted from you. So far, you have not provided this.

On the contrary, your last para seems to be a wish, on your part, that he would say something good about the camera!

Maybe you would care to read his report a third time around. He actually praises some of the features of this camera. And please do read his responses to his reader's comments. There are plenty of answers there too.

Best regards.



one of my clients is a music and art university so from time to time i also shot classic concerts . i normally don't take so many images but the last concert i shot featured 11 artists.
for me battery life was never a real problem anyway but i actually was suprised about how many images i could take with just one battery. i never used the a7r for this type of work so i have no comparison. on the a7r2 i had the the sony FE 70-200 mounted, silent mode, ibis on, i only use the viewfinder even for chimping. and i did a lot ….


color & shadows & image quality - i would not make comments in this regard based only on experience with one raw converter

speed - the camera is fast enough to shot fast moving musicians like violin players

handling - i have rather large hands but this was never a problem you can make any camera imbalanced with the right lens even a sinar p3 8x10

after reading his text a secound time i have more the impression this is a revange and not a review because he covers nothing what makes this camera superior
to a dslr, he even talks ibis down.


christian
 
V

Vivek

Guest
The "toy"descriptor as compared to the D810 is hogwash. If Ming is beta testing the rumored Leica Q interchangeable lens version and is saying this, i am interested in the Leica camera and would like to see if it would be my money's worth.

The stakes are already raised very high by putting down a state of the art camera!
 

JMaher

New member
While I try to stay out of these arguments (and I like Ming's blog) the issue about the number of shots per battery does seem a little absurd. I shot in the studio last week with the A7RII and the 55 and 35 Zeiss lenses. The shoot was of a band and then individual shots of each of the members as well as a few of smaller groups of people. There are 425 shots in my Lightroom library and I suspect I deleted a few when I did the initial processing. I have no idea how much battery life I had when I finished but I did not notice any low battery warning (if there is such a thing). While I did have two spares with me I shot the entire shoot with one battery.

Now If I still had a 5D3 I know a I would not have felt any need to carry a spare battery. However I would have carried at least one anyway just because it's foolish not to have backup.

Jim
 

stephengilbert

Active member
I wonder how much of the style of internet camera reviews is caused by the desire to elicit outrage and "clicks?" We're approaching a hundred posts here, and who knows how many every time Lloyd Chambers writes something snarky.

Don't forget the saying, "Say whatever you want about me, just make sure you spell my name right."
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
The battery life is my least problem. If it is over 150/200 per charge, I'm very ok. What bug me is ergonomic and reliability/solidity. I would buy it if it is Pentax weather sealed for real, solid as a T-15 Armata like the Leica T and with simple/easy menus :)deadhorse:). This is what I want at MINIMUM for 3500$. It should be carved in pure titanium at this price.

And if there is a polemic around raws... there is certainly something about those raws. Good cameras today do not have that much press after all. The Less ppl speak about the best buy it is :p

And at one time, especially for the video shooters or long exposure shooters, this huge amount of thermal past patches will need to be changed (like in computers). I had some more matter to the discussion :D
 

spence

New member
FWIW, E.J. Peiker over at naturescapes, who is always extremely tuned in to technical issues, said he's getting an average of 234 shots per charge with IBIS off, airplane mode on, using a 50/50 mix of EVF and LCD, and 2 minute sleep, and camera completely off while doing something other than shooting. About 25% worse battery life than the A7R, he said.

He has no axe to grind with Sony, either--he is so happy with the A7RII's rendering of landscapes, particularly fine distant details, that he will no longer use the D810 for landscapes.
 

Chuck Jones

Subscriber Member
Ming sent me a note and was wondering why I said what I did. I appreciate that to be honest. It was not meant as a personal attack on him but anyway I will reply tonight after my day shoot. It's actually one reviewer I actually like so I was a bit surprised by some of his comments. So I will first apologize in public than send him a nice note tonight. Okay time to put this body in full working order today. Real paying gig. LOL

I admit to my real issue with the negative on this release , it's the worst I have seen in recent years. So some of my frustration was thrown his way. For that I'm sorry and I kept saying I should leave this thread. As a admin I should know better
I have to agree with you Guy, this camera release was a strange one indeed, even for Sony. ReviewMania, at its best?

I haven't fully decided where I come down on the A7RII camera yet because I haven't done more than hold one. I didn't even fire the shutter. I can say the grip is more ergonomic to my hand than the small-bricks-with-tootsie-roll glued on feeling my A7R and A7S have. Why not? Because I already made up my mind there is no way I can give up four stops of higher ISO for the work I do. For me, my A7S right now is the perfectly balanced camera.

When the A7S Mark II comes out though, I'll likely be first in that pre-order line.

With that said, I am close to many who are using the A7R II and really love it. I'm also blessed in living just over the hill, seven miles from Samy's Camera and their Fairfax headquarters location. For those not familiar with the camera dealers in LA, Samy's is the largest West Coast camera dealer, who positively RULES cameras sold in Southern California. So we always get the same kind of major market introduction attention NYC gets, sometimes earlier, sometimes later. In the case of the A7R II, it was a couple weeks later.

But that doesn't mean we didn't get the same quality. The Samy's introduction featured Sony Interchangeable Cameras USA Product Manager Kenta Honjo, Sony Senior Technical Representative Rob Shelley, and my good friend Orange County, California Wedding and Portrait Photographer Paul Gero. Paul is one of the Sony Artisan of Imagery shooters, so is partially sponsored by Sony and paid to do these presentations I would expect. Paul also got his camera when first available, and has been using it in his busy Wedding and Portrait business this past month.

I felt since I was invited to the introduction, why not take my A7S along with my 35mm 'Cron and film it. Many of the subjects being brought up and discussed here on GetDPI are also subjects that came up in questions from the audience in this largest camera introduction in Samy's history. They didn't use the big classroom for this one, they used the entire first floor of the building! They did three (3) one and a half hour sessions over the afternoon. The information was so good, I filmed the third and final one. NOBODY I spoke with afterwords was sorry they invested the time to come and see this presentation.

I've cut the edit down to 33:00, which is long for a video I normally do, but I felt the value of the material they were demonstrating how to use and the questions they were answering - as Sony employees, the "horses mouth" so to speak - was worth the running time. The link for those interested in watching is here:

Sony A7R II: From The Experts At Samys - The Camera Forum®

I learned a lot from this, hope many of you do as well. Uncompressed RAW is coming, just nobody is sure or is saying, exactly when. The target is 16 bit too, though again nobody is saying much more than that. Will be a backward looking firmware upgrade or a whole new hardware version? I expect the latter, given the normal Sony method of introducing new features only on new models. Sony is a consumer electronics manufacturer. You get the benefit in a less expensive cost, but pay the price in needing to purchase newly developed features and upgrades.

Oh, and don't shoot the messenger here guys, I'm just the DP on this one :cool:
 

jfirneno

Member
So, this is one of those arguments where everyone is kind of right.

Those who say that the A7R II (and all the A7 cameras) are less refined and intuitive than the best DSLRs and that Sony doesn’t provide professional photographers with the support they want are correct.

Those who say that the A7 cameras are already better than the best DSLRs in a number of departments, almost as good in several others and not as good in a few more are also correct.

Funny thing is even with Canon and Nikon (and Leica and Panasonic and Olympus) producing great new cameras you still find mostly everyone (including those who really, really hate Sony) spending most of their time here talking about Sony! Sony must be doing something right.

As I said much earlier in this thread, Ming lists all the things he dislikes about the A7R II but then admits that he bought it for all the things that it does that he needs.

Let’s face it, that’s a positive review.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
FWIW, E.J. Peiker over at naturescapes, who is always extremely tuned in to technical issues, said he's getting an average of 234 shots per charge with IBIS off, airplane mode on, using a 50/50 mix of EVF and LCD, and 2 minute sleep, and camera completely off while doing something other than shooting. About 25% worse battery life than the A7R, he said.

He has no axe to grind with Sony, either--he is so happy with the A7RII's rendering of landscapes, particularly fine distant details, that he will no longer use the D810 for landscapes.
That chimes very accurately with what I m seeing.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
On a gig right now just hit 325 with 20 percent or so to go. Been shooting 4 hours now. I use a Watson dual charger that gives me a percent of charging. I'm wondering about folks chargers if there not filling them up all the way. I got review in and all that too. I seriously get better battery life than what's being reported.

I do run my batteries down to.

Now the whole battery does not mean much to me. I carry 5 now and I never get even close to using them. I'll finish this job about 500 or so images and I'll use maybe 1.5. Beats changing film. Lol
 

CSP

New member
That chimes very accurately with what I m seeing.
well, so as i know for sure i do not write fiction i ask myself what can cause the great difference in performance others see
here are a some ideas, what do you think ?

1. i did shot the 900 frames in about 3 hours, maybe the "on" time plays a more important roll than the image count ?
2. could it be that the camera only uses the IS in the 70-200 lens and this needs less power than IBIS ?
3. do different SD card brands / types have a different power consumption do faster cards need more power for example ?
4. i had lens correction turned off is this also a factor ?
5. wifi and remote control was off too
6. does silent mode need less power ?
7. pre af was off


christian
 

JMaher

New member
On a gig right now just hit 325 with 20 percent or so to go. Been shooting 4 hours now.

That seems about right. The 425 I shot was in a very limited period of time (maybe 90 minutes) with little or no chimping on a shot by shot basis. Once I was dialed in I really didn't need to check but occasionally. I suspect the short duration of the shoot combined with little chimping got me that number but 300+ seems very doable.
 

rayyan

Well-known member
I did some battery comparisons, based on data provided by CIPA and the manufacturers themselves...as gathered on the Internet.

Between the A7RII battery ( beilieve it is usable in all Sony A7 series ), and the battery used in the Nikon D810 ( also used in quite a few other Nikons ).

It has been repeatedly said that the Sony batteries are small.

I checked the weight of one Sony battery. I also checked the weight of one Nikon D810 battery.

I also checked their rated capacities and estimated shots per a fully charged battery.

Why don't you folks check it for yourselves. Ten minutes maximum. Go to B&H and get the specs. Or spend a little more time and check what each manufacturer states.

You might be pleasantly ( or otherwise ) surprised.


Chuck, thanks for that video. I watched it over dinner. Learnt a lot.
 
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