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A7RII DxOmarked

Amin

Amin

Active member
SNR differences look to be very modest, and it's clear that Sony is cooking the RAWs to achieve the results at the highest ISOs (otherwise the curve wouldn't change directions like that):

 
V

Vivek

Guest
Amin said:
SNR differences look to be very modest, and it's clear that Sony is cooking the RAWs to achieve the results at the highest ISOs (otherwise the curve wouldn't change directions like that):

]
Click to expand...
Amin, What do you mean by "cooking"? I ask because I am looking at what cooling does to S/R ratios of a CMOS sensor and it is amazing.

There might be more possibilities than you assume what might be happening.
 
Amin

Amin

Active member
I was referring to some kind of noise reduction being applied. Point taken about other possibilities. Regardless of the cause, I'm psyched about the resulting image quality!
 
W

waardij

New member
Dual conversion gain in the sensor. Jim Kasson linked, a while back, after his own measurements had shown comparable results, to this solution. At iso 640 and above, the conversion gain is changed, improving the dynamic range by approximately 1 stop. Same solution is used in the a7s, although there the gain is switched at a higher iso value
 
S

spence

New member
Yeah, very nifty technology, Sony picked that up from Aptina, IIRC.

So at low ISO, A7RII is very good, but not the ultimate DR machine like the D810 is, but the Sony has a decent advantage at higher ISOs. Sony has built a pretty great all-arounder, it seems.

What do the slight to moderate color sensitivity advantages (5 points with CIE-050, 2 points at CIE-A) signify, in real world shooting, anyone know?

spence
 
Jorgen Udvang

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Amin said:
SNR differences look to be very modest, and it's clear that Sony is cooking the RAWs to achieve the results at the highest ISOs (otherwise the curve wouldn't change directions like that):

Click to expand...
You forgot to include the Fuji S3, introduced in 2004. It's nice to know that Sony is catching up though :ROTFL:

 
Jack

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Maybe I don't know how to read the chart properly, but it appears to me the Nikon D810 remains king of DR by almost a full stop over the A7rII -- or am I missing something? Granted, at over ISO 400 the Sony shows about a 1-stop advantage, but that is already heavily trimmed both cams base ISO DR significantly...
 
tashley

tashley

Subscriber Member
Jack said:
Maybe I don't know how to read the chart properly, but it appears to me the Nikon D810 remains king of DR by almost a full stop over the A7rII -- or am I missing something? Granted, at over ISO 400 the Sony shows about a 1-stop advantage, but that is already heavily trimmed both cams base ISO DR significantly...
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Amen Jack. I've been discreetly trying to hint at this, but not making any friends....
 
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ptomsu

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Sure the A7rII delivers impressive results!

But actually I am kind of surprised that the BSI technology does only deliver slightly better than the D810 and a several years old sensor design it incorporates. I would have expected at least much much better results. Shows once more how good the D810 already was (is).
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Hmmm Sony beat the Nikon on every other score. Sony went after better higher ISO. Thanks Sony that's what I was after. Far more important to me than DR.

But even more important I could care less what Nikon , canon or any other camera scores. I bought a Sony camera to me nothing else means anything. These comparisions are the biggest waste of people's time. I have one brand to shoot with so that's what I shoot. My clients don't care what the scores are. All the care about is what I deliver. All a shooter should care about is what he has in his hands and what he can deliver. Seriously I never want to buy a Nikon again if I can help it or Canon for that matter. These matters are extremely boring.

I shot a nice gig yesterday it was the best shooting experience as far as camera I had in many years. I actually enjoyed working. This DXO stuff is for people that need convincing they bought a good product. Im Not that insecure I know I did

I'm bidding on a 60 page catalog next week for a major beverage company. I get it I'm buying a second body immediately and more glass. This is a investment in me and if Sony keeps building great product I will continue this investment. If not I'll go somewhere else.
 
J

JaapD

Member
At ISO 100 The D810 has a bit less than half a stop DR advantage over the A7RII. At At ISO 300 the DR is equal. Above that the A7RII is better, up till a full stop.
 
Jorgen Udvang

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
JaapD said:
At ISO 100 The D810 has a bit less than half a stop DR advantage over the A7RII. At At ISO 300 the DR is equal. Above that the A7RII is better, up till a full stop.
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Real men shoot at ISO 32 :lecture:

:ROTFL:

I do, actually... 32 and 64 most of the time. Must be a habit from my Velvia days :)
 
Jorgen Udvang

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Knorp said:
Dear Jørgen, you really live up to your quote ... :LOL:
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It's not as silly as it sounds. I shoot at industrial plants very often as part of my work, and the contrasts can be extreme, so the best solution is to use the camera that offers the highest DR at the ISO that offers that maximum. That means shooting with a tripod at ISO 32, and since since the D810 is the camera this side of MF that has the highest DR, that was one of several reasons why I bought it. It doesn't help me much that some other camera offers 12 stops at ISO 800. It's simply not sufficient for my needs, and as the curve above shows, even my old Fujis offer higher DR at ISO 800, although with much less resolution and probably with more noise as well.
 
seb

seb

Member
Hello everybody! (my first post) :)

I had a private event last weekend, where I was shooting in favor for my mother-in-law. As a surprise a group played up she worked with for over 30 years. In the middle of the concert they took flutes out of their pockets and began to play. My mother-in-law loves to play flutes, but the group are all professionals that are thinking derogatory about playing flutes. They made jokes about that all the 30 years, but never played.
My mother-in-law is very reserved, but at this moment she standed up and shouted through the whole room: "Sebastian, Sebastian, shoot that!" Of course I already did (silent shutter).
I had to go up to f4.5 from f1.8 to get the two leaders of the group sharp and for that I had to push ISO to 12800. The picture is great, she will love it. Thanks to this sensor. I don't mind if it is the best in the world, but I never ever want to go back to my old camera (for such situations).

On the other hand: For me all that tech stuff from DXO, dpreview, Bill Claff or Jim Kasson is not for comparing the camera, I use it to understand my camera. I know how EFCS works, when I should turn it off, which ISO values shines, what happens on silent shutter, how PDAF and CDAF works together and much much more.
 
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V

Viramati

Member
For me at least the improved DR at higher ISO's is the real benefit of this camera. When I originally bought the A7s the DR at high iso was one of the things I found to be most useful and to have this in the A7rII just makes it such a versatile tool. While a large DR is of course very useful I do find that we are now betting to a stage where the want for more is getting a little like the mega pixel wars of a few years ago.
 
T

timparkin

Member
tashley said:
Amen Jack. I've been discreetly trying to hint at this, but not making any friends....
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I've been saying the same. The reason people think the A7RII is better is because when you process the files, the colour is very neutral in the shadows wheras the D810 and the A7R have colour crossovers in the deep shadows and need a lot of careful curve work to correct. Only when you've done that is the extra dynamic range usable

Tim
 
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