Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Batis 85 2.8 using Eye AF. Go look in the menu for that on your Canon. Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
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Where does an 800 lb gorilla sit in a room with no mirrors?
- Thread starter f/otographer
- Start date
Batis 85 2.8 using Eye AF. Go look in the menu for that on your Canon. Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Canon is a dinosaur and they are not going to go serious mirrorless and compete with themselves nor is Nikon. ITS ABOUT MONEY
fmueller
Active member
You are referring to the Canon 1D mk IV sensor size.
The 5DS/R is a "full frame" 24x36.
Even though most of my cameras are full frame, it is incidental to my choices and not a must have.
scho
Well-known member
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k-hawinkler
Well-known member
Thanks Guy. That's a great shot.
Batis 85 2.8 using Eye AF. Go look in the menu for that on your Canon. Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
With Eye AF and a little practice it's easy to nail these kinds of shots, I find.
In your hands your Zeiss Batis lens really shines on your A7r2. Congratulations.
V
Vivek
Guest
I agree with your point. I think the OP's post is silly.
My Sony A7R2 with IBIS, Eye Detect AF, EVF, and 4K video does so many things no Canon and no Nikon can do even without bringing the whole mirror/mirrorless and size questions into play that I would choose it anyway.
It is just, in my opinion, a better and more advanced camera.
When you add in the benefits of mirrorless and small size and low weight it simply becomes even more attractive but those are not the primary advantages to me of the A7R2. Notice I did not say smallest and lowest weight. I think people can construct low weight systems from Canon and Nikon although I believe the size may be harder to match.
Sony is also providing lens choices that even mighty Canon is not. I don't see a real Canon answer for the 35/1.4, the 90/2.8 or my Noctilux. Of course, Canon has many lenses that are unique to its mount.
Then there is the sensor. For me, it is the best balanced sensor ever made. Insane resolution, DR and both bright light and low light capabilities make it the overall champion. I don't expect it to be the best sensor for long. But, for now, Sony is the one pushing sensor technology faster than anyone else and I think they will keep doing that for some time.
Those sensor advantages turn directly into better images for me. Others, with different requirements, will never care about high ISO banding or will find work arounds. It's not like Canon images are lousy.
So where does Canon sit in a room?
In my opinion, away from Sony, unable to match the technology. Sure, Canon could make a mirrorless system and sell it with all that Canon marketing muscle. But, the Sony technology train is a real thing and Canon can't just snap their fingers and negate it in one fell swoop.
-Bill
It is just, in my opinion, a better and more advanced camera.
When you add in the benefits of mirrorless and small size and low weight it simply becomes even more attractive but those are not the primary advantages to me of the A7R2. Notice I did not say smallest and lowest weight. I think people can construct low weight systems from Canon and Nikon although I believe the size may be harder to match.
Sony is also providing lens choices that even mighty Canon is not. I don't see a real Canon answer for the 35/1.4, the 90/2.8 or my Noctilux. Of course, Canon has many lenses that are unique to its mount.
Then there is the sensor. For me, it is the best balanced sensor ever made. Insane resolution, DR and both bright light and low light capabilities make it the overall champion. I don't expect it to be the best sensor for long. But, for now, Sony is the one pushing sensor technology faster than anyone else and I think they will keep doing that for some time.
Those sensor advantages turn directly into better images for me. Others, with different requirements, will never care about high ISO banding or will find work arounds. It's not like Canon images are lousy.
So where does Canon sit in a room?
In my opinion, away from Sony, unable to match the technology. Sure, Canon could make a mirrorless system and sell it with all that Canon marketing muscle. But, the Sony technology train is a real thing and Canon can't just snap their fingers and negate it in one fell swoop.
-Bill
Hulyss Bowman
Active member
I'm advanced, have my pics around the web, sell print even in China, and do not get this DR war either. There is numerous well known (FAMOUS) landscape photographers who use Canon. It's kind a bad thing to insult them, because I see that as a sort of pedant insult. Pardon me if I'm wrong.
I look at this forum and others, days after days. I do not see ppl improving their skills at all and pictures do not wow me more and more. In fact, I'm looking into old threads because some old threads and picture just wow me. You might try, it's cool
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pegelli
Well-known member
Isn't that what Kodak did? :bugeyes:
Obviously just kidding a bit and I don't think the move from a mirrored to a mirrorless camera is as disruptive as from film to digital.
Based on peoples needs and preferences there's room for both, no right or wrong here.
V
Vivek
Guest
That is not what they did. They innovated and others improvised (it can happen to Sony as well if the same corporate culture is emulated).
Their demise is not due to lack of innovation.
k-hawinkler
Well-known member
Doesn't IBM still successfully sell mainframes? Speaking of dinosaurs.
So, DSLRs will be around for a long time as well. :grin:
So, DSLRs will be around for a long time as well. :grin:
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
I'm advanced, have my pics around the web, sell print even in China, and do not get this DR war either. There is numerous well known (FAMOUS) landscape photographers who use Canon. It's kind a bad thing to insult them, because I see that as a sort of pedant insult. Pardon me if I'm wrong.
I have to disagree with you here. I look at the Sony fun threads and there are just some outstanding Art being produced but more than that I came from 5 medium format backs and I'm a real expert in that area of file and IQ coming from those sensors. The first day I shot this A7rII and you can look back on my posts. I said this out of all the 35mm digital cams I shot this is absolutely the closest thing to MF yet and I was talking about the look of the file. It's for lack of a better word smooth and does not have that digital feel to it. I'm thrilled by this more than anything. No Canon or Nikon I have shot has this smooth transitions in the tones and has a nice delicate look to it out of the box. Even the pedestrian shot of my grandson above just has a very delicate look to the file and I sharpened it which if I didn't it be even smoother. I just never got this with other cams even Sonys. This cam reminds me very much in file to the old 1DS which was lovely coming off the sensor than the screwed it up.
Now I was not trying to bash Canon by any means . Just goofing off this morning. I don't bash anything as I may have to buy it the next day. Besides what's the point but in regards to Canon and Nikon as well they are so entrenched in the DSLR systems that anything they really would do at this point in time going full boat mirrorless is would really competing with themselves. There still is a big market for DSLR type cameras and yes mirrorless is the new tech but I don't see it taking over the DSLR market as fast as some would think. It's got some shelf life to it. They do have a issue in terms of Sony though and until this last RII cam hit the streets they had the major AF advantage and I think they still do in a way but this new Sony is a quantum leap forward in AF. I'm actually quite shocked how good and accurate it is. This could possible hurt canon , Nikon down the road. Not this RII per say but the next generation coming from Sony. Sony is very agressive and they want to play in the market.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Thanks. BTW I loaded 10.3.3 of C1 update and it has both Batis lens corrections in it. I still need to test this throughly but even my grandsons shot you can see a visible distortion correction with the 85. I love this lens but this distortion we have to control going forward. I really need to see how it is with buildings and straight lines but everyone should update there C1.
Sorry that was OT but needed to be said somewhere.
Speaking of Eye AF my grandson lost his right eye at about 13 weeks to cancer in his right eye and we had to take it. Here is something really strange and I don't understand it at all. But Eye AF goes to his good eye. His natural one. Not sure what the hell technically it's reading on subject but it's really odd. This image his good eye is closer to camera but other shots straight on it goes to his real eye. Now someone explain this one to me. LOL
Hulyss Bowman
Active member
I roger what you say Guy. I see the numbers on the forum and see where the interest is : Sony because of hype and MF because ... MF is MF. When I look at sony forum I see a load of threads about techniques, ppl wanting to segregate gear into the same brand (thus making numerous child threads). It is hard to decipher, hard to follow and always brand orientated.
Personally I would like, on GetDPI forum, a general 35mm forum, where ppl can share photography with whatever gear they possess or are able to buy in the 35mm world, same for APS-C and MFT. I'm sure it would be cool, less segregationist.
You'll see ppl nailing focus with f1.2 manual lenses on moving subjects and old DSLR in the middle of mirrorless or leica users. The goal, after all, is sharing photography and pleasure.
IMHO it would be an extremely valuable addition to getDPI, especially in today gear extravaganza (you start to see that I do not care about gear).
Personally I would like, on GetDPI forum, a general 35mm forum, where ppl can share photography with whatever gear they possess or are able to buy in the 35mm world, same for APS-C and MFT. I'm sure it would be cool, less segregationist.
You'll see ppl nailing focus with f1.2 manual lenses on moving subjects and old DSLR in the middle of mirrorless or leica users. The goal, after all, is sharing photography and pleasure.
IMHO it would be an extremely valuable addition to getDPI, especially in today gear extravaganza (you start to see that I do not care about gear).
V
Vivek
Guest
Been there done that and I have moved on. Those who relish OVF (Leica is moving on to EVF as well) should enjoy and make full use of what they cherish.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Good thoughts let's see what the admins think.
Btw I really did wish our Canon forum was more popular we have such good people here. I think there would be a lot to offer over the usual junk we read at other places. None of us admins go out and seek members and we really never want too. Our membership is really whoever shows up. We are not a money making forum by any stretch. Not sure I even want to be, as long as we can maintain our costs through some ads it's all I care about.
Hulyss Bowman
Active member
I think that a lot of Canon shooters do not share just because they feel alone. Really. In a general 35mm thread we might attract them again, slowly, and I'm sure we can be very dazzled by what they have to share
f/otographer
New member
Well, this has been an interesting read this morning.
I see a lot of defensiveness coming from both sides on this and I really should have anticipated that. I thought I made it pretty clear in my OP as to how I was hoping this post would go. This is not, in any way, a Canon bashing thread. Or a 'Sony is better thread'. If anyone here thinks that is the case then you are mistaken. What I was hoping to see here is a discussion among photographic peers as to Canons lack of response in any serious way to an exciting, growing segment of the market.
Let me say that again. Mirrorless cameras, with all of the new innovations they are pushing, are an exciting and growing segment of the market. And Canon, photographic powerhouse that they are, chooses to make only the smallest entry into this market with the M. Almost as an afterthought.
I made it very clear in my OP that I love Canon as a company. I also love the new mirrorless technology and I experience some frustration that if I want a FF mirrorless camera (and I do) then Sony is my only option. Now it is a very fine option to be sure. But Canon brings many things to the table with their corporate philosophy and if I had my choice (and the camera is any good) then I would prefer a rugged, Canon FF mirrorless with some Canon glass attached.
Guy, I think you hit it on the head perfectly. It is entirely about money. For all the reasons I mentioned before and some others brought up in this post. R/D, development cost, poaching of DSLR sales...all of these things factor into why Canon is not serious about mirrorless cameras at this point. Someone also brought up the advancements in printers that they are spearheading right now. I was not aware of this, and of course if Canon has its hand in too many pies they simply might not prioritize developing a serious contender for this segment until they are ready to do so. It might simply be that they do indeed know how vital this segment will be to the future of digital photography and wont bring out a camera until they know they have the time and resources to dominate. This does very much sound like the Canon of the past.
But again, this thread is not about bashing any brand or declaring X is better then Y. So deleting your post in a tantrum or calling my OP silly is just...well, silly. If you have something constructive to add to the conversation then by all means please do so. Troll posts will be.....errr...
Guy, I absolutely love Hulyss's idea of a forum for images that are not gear centric. I think this would do wonders for the site overall and pull us together as artists and photographers instead of shooters of this brand or that. If there is any way to have this done then you have my vote hands down and if this thread can be partly responsible for something so beneficial then it will be worth the pixels it is made of. But can we also have a small forum where all troll posts can be moved to so we can read them at leisure in all their trollish glory? Maybe entitle it "Under the Bridge"?
Carry on please, I love what everyone has contributed.
(p.s- edited my OP. I incorrectly stated the new Canon will be 150mp instead of the actual 120mp. Now fixed)
I see a lot of defensiveness coming from both sides on this and I really should have anticipated that. I thought I made it pretty clear in my OP as to how I was hoping this post would go. This is not, in any way, a Canon bashing thread. Or a 'Sony is better thread'. If anyone here thinks that is the case then you are mistaken. What I was hoping to see here is a discussion among photographic peers as to Canons lack of response in any serious way to an exciting, growing segment of the market.
Let me say that again. Mirrorless cameras, with all of the new innovations they are pushing, are an exciting and growing segment of the market. And Canon, photographic powerhouse that they are, chooses to make only the smallest entry into this market with the M. Almost as an afterthought.
I made it very clear in my OP that I love Canon as a company. I also love the new mirrorless technology and I experience some frustration that if I want a FF mirrorless camera (and I do) then Sony is my only option. Now it is a very fine option to be sure. But Canon brings many things to the table with their corporate philosophy and if I had my choice (and the camera is any good) then I would prefer a rugged, Canon FF mirrorless with some Canon glass attached.
Guy, I think you hit it on the head perfectly. It is entirely about money. For all the reasons I mentioned before and some others brought up in this post. R/D, development cost, poaching of DSLR sales...all of these things factor into why Canon is not serious about mirrorless cameras at this point. Someone also brought up the advancements in printers that they are spearheading right now. I was not aware of this, and of course if Canon has its hand in too many pies they simply might not prioritize developing a serious contender for this segment until they are ready to do so. It might simply be that they do indeed know how vital this segment will be to the future of digital photography and wont bring out a camera until they know they have the time and resources to dominate. This does very much sound like the Canon of the past.
But again, this thread is not about bashing any brand or declaring X is better then Y. So deleting your post in a tantrum or calling my OP silly is just...well, silly. If you have something constructive to add to the conversation then by all means please do so. Troll posts will be.....errr...
Guy, I absolutely love Hulyss's idea of a forum for images that are not gear centric. I think this would do wonders for the site overall and pull us together as artists and photographers instead of shooters of this brand or that. If there is any way to have this done then you have my vote hands down and if this thread can be partly responsible for something so beneficial then it will be worth the pixels it is made of. But can we also have a small forum where all troll posts can be moved to so we can read them at leisure in all their trollish glory? Maybe entitle it "Under the Bridge"?
Carry on please, I love what everyone has contributed.
(p.s- edited my OP. I incorrectly stated the new Canon will be 150mp instead of the actual 120mp. Now fixed)
biglouis
Well-known member
The only thing I have to add to this debate is that I believe in less than 10 years people will look back on optical viewfinders with the same misplaced sentimentality they have about film.
"Man I just got this vintage Nikon D800 for forty bucks and dude it has an optical viewfinder!",
"Radical dude, you are reaaaallly old school, my man!".
"Yeah, it feels like so organic when I am composing my shots and I have to like work at it to visualise the impact of exposure compensation. No short cuts!"
"Gee, I wish I had the time to go optical. Maybe I will, one day!"
Personally, I would never buy another optical viewfinder based camera unless I was going back to film. And actually what could be cooler than an EVF on a film camera?
Just my two cents.
LouisB
"Man I just got this vintage Nikon D800 for forty bucks and dude it has an optical viewfinder!",
"Radical dude, you are reaaaallly old school, my man!".
"Yeah, it feels like so organic when I am composing my shots and I have to like work at it to visualise the impact of exposure compensation. No short cuts!"
"Gee, I wish I had the time to go optical. Maybe I will, one day!"
Personally, I would never buy another optical viewfinder based camera unless I was going back to film. And actually what could be cooler than an EVF on a film camera?
Just my two cents.
LouisB