jpaulmoore
Active member
Hopefully in time for fall color!
J. Paul
The GetDPI Photography Forum
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J. Paul
Vivek, it will be curious to witness that once this new RAW option becomes available if or just how many long time Sony users will use it or just keep using the current RAW format. I am sure at first everyone will play with the uncompressed RAW but in the end? Might be interesting to watch.
As on another thread if Canon and Nikon both develop high end FF mirrorless cameras and their lost souls return to their flocks I wonder just how long Sony will continue to make various RAW formats available in future cameras? I say this due to the fact in neither the A mount specific nor the apc E mount specific forums can I recall even one thread complaining about the current Sony RAW format.... Then again those specific forums have much fewer lost souls.
I really hope the Canikon companies do create a super mirrorless .... And I will find the new RAW usage a interesting item to watch because I can see storm cloud on the horizon starting to form because this new RAW may not be the type some wanted. Personally I will try whatever new RAW formats Sony delivers but if I see no difference and it creates additional issues in my workflow I will continue with what I have used on every Sony camera since the a900 days .... It has worked for me and kept a roof over my head and food on the table for all these year's while some feel we have been crippled by the lack of what they may be use to and push exposure limit past extremes to show the error of our ways. This will be a interesting issue to witness as to its outcome 5 years down the road whether it is kept or not. There are reasons why corporate engineering do what they do and they don't take cost/reward studies lightly.
As on another thread if Canon and Nikon both develop high end FF mirrorless cameras and their lost souls return to their flocks I wonder just how long Sony will continue to make various RAW formats available in future cameras? I say this due to the fact in neither the A mount specific nor the apc E mount specific forums can I recall even one thread complaining about the current Sony RAW format.... Then again those specific forums have much fewer lost souls.
I really hope the Canikon companies do create a super mirrorless .... And I will find the new RAW usage a interesting item to watch because I can see storm cloud on the horizon starting to form because this new RAW may not be the type some wanted. Personally I will try whatever new RAW formats Sony delivers but if I see no difference and it creates additional issues in my workflow I will continue with what I have used on every Sony camera since the a900 days .... It has worked for me and kept a roof over my head and food on the table for all these year's while some feel we have been crippled by the lack of what they may be use to and push exposure limit past extremes to show the error of our ways. This will be a interesting issue to witness as to its outcome 5 years down the road whether it is kept or not. There are reasons why corporate engineering do what they do and they don't take cost/reward studies lightly.
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Ario Arioldi
Member
I will do the opposite, same as I do on my Nikon D810, if I see no difference I will use the uncompressed file option or a lossyless compressed one if it will be made available (who knows?). The problem I see in the present compressed file is not only the fact that is lossy but that the two stage compression as it is provided can easily create problems around high contrast edges and I prefer not to take that risk.
V
Vivek
Guest
Jim, I agree with what Ario said.Vivek, it will be curious to witness that once this new RAW option becomes available if or just how many long time Sony users will use it or just keep using the current RAW format. I am sure at first everyone will play with the uncompressed RAW but in the end? Might be interesting to watch.
As on another thread if Canon and Nikon both develop high end FF mirrorless cameras and their lost souls return to their flocks I wonder just how long Sony will continue to make various RAW formats available in future cameras? I say this due to the fact in neither the A mount specific nor the apc E mount specific forums can I recall even one thread complaining about the current Sony RAW format.... Then again those specific forums have much fewer lost souls.
I really hope the Canikon companies do create a super mirrorless .... And I will find the new RAW usage a interesting item to watch because I can see storm cloud on the horizon starting to form because this new RAW may not be the type some wanted. Personally I will try whatever new RAW formats Sony delivers but if I see no difference I will continue with what I have used on every Sony camera since the a900 days .... It has worked for me and kept a roof over my head and food on the table for all these year's while some feel we have been crippled by the lack of what they may be use to and push exposure limit past extremes to show the error of our ways. This will be a interesting issue to witness as to its outcome 5 years down the road whether it is kept or not. There are reasons why corporate engineering do what they do and they don't take cost/reward studies lightly.
These "engineering" talk (not directed at you, mind you) was invoked to justify the plastic E mounts, btw. The mount was "engineered" to break when a heavy lens was mounted instead of warping the mount plane and such. Now we know that is false.
I also hope to see those Canon or Nikon supermirrorless possibilities.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Im on a wait and see basis. See what they do here
If all this pans out (true, selectable uncompressed (or much less lossy) RAW in the A7RII) the Sony A7RII will make the D810 a hard sell for landscape and architecture. It kinda already is. I am sure that the A7RII files will improve and if the camera is retested by DXo it will end up with an even better score. :clap:
The Sony A7R2 is already such a powerhouse of technology that no company, not Canon and not Nikon, has the ability to just blow past it in one fell swoop.Vivek, it will be curious to witness that once this new RAW option becomes available if or just how many long time Sony users will use it or just keep using the current RAW format. I am sure at first everyone will play with the uncompressed RAW but in the end? Might be interesting to watch.
As on another thread if Canon and Nikon both develop high end FF mirrorless cameras and their lost souls return to their flocks I wonder just how long Sony will continue to make various RAW formats available in future cameras? I say this due to the fact in neither the A mount specific nor the apc E mount specific forums can I recall even one thread complaining about the current Sony RAW format.... Then again those specific forums have much fewer lost souls.
I really hope the Canikon companies do create a super mirrorless .... And I will find the new RAW usage a interesting item to watch because I can see storm cloud on the horizon starting to form because this new RAW may not be the type some wanted. Personally I will try whatever new RAW formats Sony delivers but if I see no difference and it creates additional issues in my workflow I will continue with what I have used on every Sony camera since the a900 days .... It has worked for me and kept a roof over my head and food on the table for all these year's while some feel we have been crippled by the lack of what they may be use to and push exposure limit past extremes to show the error of our ways. This will be a interesting issue to witness as to its outcome 5 years down the road whether it is kept or not. There are reasons why corporate engineering do what they do and they don't take cost/reward studies lightly.
The lens selection for the FE line is also filling out so quickly and with such good lenses that any advantage Canon and Nikon have is being rapidly eroded.
Look at m4/3's. The lens selection there started out very thin and is now quite substantial in only a few years.
With Sony showing signs of listening better to actual customers they may develop future products that people are asking for as well as continuing to make products we didn't realize we wanted.
Just a few months ago, I would have applied the moniker super mirrorless to any camera that is as versatile and powerful as the A7R2. The Eye Detect AF, IBIS, 4K internal video and truely astounding BSI sensor are all just part of a tour de force packaged into a genuinely small FF camera body. How is that not a super mirrorless?
Going forward, there is plenty I want to see from Sony as well. More consistency with lens quality, better service, a true sports camera, better AF, bigger buffers and the ability to take frame grabs straight out of the camera would all be on my wish list.
I also hope Canon and Nikon join the mirrorless fray because I have left the ancient land of optical viewfinders that don't magnify and don't work in the dark and don't review images and entered the glorious land of tiny televisions that deliver the itty bitty digital images that my brain has been conditioned to accept as reality.
-Bill
Bill I don't know if you own a a77II but honestly it is a tough to beat AF system for speed and accuracy ........ here one from yesterday shot handheld with the a77II and a 150-600mm from quite a distance with clear blue skies and a 50% crop at somewhere between 500mm-550mm which is a effective FOV of a near 800mm on a 35mm body.
It balances well with the 150-600 and has a very fast frame rate and buffer... not bad for a $800 body..... it's not a low light king but isn't all that bad either compared to the original a77.
Service? I can't argue with anyone there.... it was totally idiotic to farm this process out when their in house process was so excellent. I went with the Sony Pro Service Support program just to have someone with some leverage on my side if I needed service.......
It balances well with the 150-600 and has a very fast frame rate and buffer... not bad for a $800 body..... it's not a low light king but isn't all that bad either compared to the original a77.
Service? I can't argue with anyone there.... it was totally idiotic to farm this process out when their in house process was so excellent. I went with the Sony Pro Service Support program just to have someone with some leverage on my side if I needed service.......
k-hawinkler
Well-known member
+1. Yes and be able to choose!
Lossless compressed would obviously be preferred due to around (quess, depends on algorithm) 40% smaller files, but either will do just fine. With uncompressed each of my 3 64 GB cards can only take 700-800 pics...Sorry for I got lost, what's the consensus now ? We actually want Lossless Compressed over Uncompressed over Lossy Compressed ?
Okay - sooo, who's gonna tell Sony ...
I just sold my Nikon D4 which has both great AF and a big buffer.Bill I don't know if you own a a77II but honestly it is a tough to beat AF system for speed and accuracy ........ here one from yesterday shot handheld with the a77II and a 150-600mm from quite a distance with clear blue skies and a 50% crop at somewhere between 500mm-550mm which is a effective FOV of a near 800mm on a 35mm body.
It balances well with the 150-600 and has a very fast frame rate and buffer... not bad for a $800 body..... it's not a low light king but isn't all that bad either compared to the original a77.
Service? I can't argue with anyone there.... it was totally idiotic to farm this process out when their in house process was so excellent. I went with the Sony Pro Service Support program just to have someone with some leverage on my side if I needed service.......
I would love both from a Sony A mirror less body. I won't be looking at the A77 or A99 style bodies at all. I would have probably kept my extensive Nikon gear if I wanted that type of camera.
I am using Samsung's very good NX1, which has pretty good AF itself as well as 4K video for sports shots. Unfortunately, it is also cursed with a silly small buffer as are all the small Sony cameras.
My other point is that the A7R2 is a super camera already and I don't believe Nikon or Canon can necessarily do better. Almost certainly not now and possibly not ever. Sony will keep moving the bar.
-Bill
Chris Barrett
Member
Funny thing is, now that I think about it... arent' the files coming out of digital backs compressed raw? My RED also produces compressed raws. Nice thing about that is, you can set the compression anywhere from 3:1 on up depending on how much media you want to burn.
MikeEvangelist
Member
DPR got to try the new uncompressed feature, and gets some further details from Sony.
Summary:
Here - What difference does it make? Sony uncompressed Raw
Summary:
- Artifacts are gone
- Files are twice the size (roughly 80MBs)
- Continuous shooting speed unaffected, but buffer fills sooner
- The processor (probably) can't do lossless compressed, hence the UN-compressed.
Here - What difference does it make? Sony uncompressed Raw
Nice... I now have a 80mb mirrorless (roflmao) take that Canikon
I mean really, all this internet whining for that? Yeah it's better if someone wants to push the extremes and pixel peep but I swear I have never seen this artifact issue in my real world photography on any of my digital Sony/Minolta RAW images. This is why I just don't go to that forum any more and probably never will again. Too many brainiacs looking for things to complain about....
Vivek you and I both know the whining will continue even after this because they did not give us Lossless compression. Once they get this I bet the OVF option is next on their wish lists. Then there will be some defect that can only be seen at pixel level with a proton microscope when pushed 20 stops.... It won't end
I appreciate all the accolades Sony has gotten recently for listening and responding to their customers but from a manufacturer's viewpoint that can become a double edged sword because it will be a never ending thrust in their side. Some customer bases can never be totally satisfied because some just like to complain or nitpic a product rather than just use it.
I guess I will never understand people paying big money for a product when they know certain things about the product going in will not satisfy them. If the lack of Lossless compression was a deal breaker for them they just should buy products that have it. Their money speaks their dissatisfaction far stronger than wish lists on the Internet. Companies pay attention to profits... You want to get a point across do things that negatively effect their profits and they will respond far faster. This lossless compression thing started like a brush burn then turned into something needing a arterial clamp to stop the bleeding as it becomes viewed as a serious issue when pushed to extremes. My guess is these same people have never been exposed to the term "design intent".
I mean really, all this internet whining for that? Yeah it's better if someone wants to push the extremes and pixel peep but I swear I have never seen this artifact issue in my real world photography on any of my digital Sony/Minolta RAW images. This is why I just don't go to that forum any more and probably never will again. Too many brainiacs looking for things to complain about....
Vivek you and I both know the whining will continue even after this because they did not give us Lossless compression. Once they get this I bet the OVF option is next on their wish lists. Then there will be some defect that can only be seen at pixel level with a proton microscope when pushed 20 stops.... It won't end
I appreciate all the accolades Sony has gotten recently for listening and responding to their customers but from a manufacturer's viewpoint that can become a double edged sword because it will be a never ending thrust in their side. Some customer bases can never be totally satisfied because some just like to complain or nitpic a product rather than just use it.
I guess I will never understand people paying big money for a product when they know certain things about the product going in will not satisfy them. If the lack of Lossless compression was a deal breaker for them they just should buy products that have it. Their money speaks their dissatisfaction far stronger than wish lists on the Internet. Companies pay attention to profits... You want to get a point across do things that negatively effect their profits and they will respond far faster. This lossless compression thing started like a brush burn then turned into something needing a arterial clamp to stop the bleeding as it becomes viewed as a serious issue when pushed to extremes. My guess is these same people have never been exposed to the term "design intent".
V
Vivek
Guest
Nice!
I hope the A6000's successor will have better processors and offer lossless compressed RAW option.
It is time that Sony redeem them by offering better cameras that befit their sensors.
There, I started it!
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Okay your banned just for whining. LOLNice!
I hope the A6000's successor will have better processors and offer lossless compressed RAW option.
It is time that Sony redeem them by offering better cameras that befit their sensors.
There, I started it!
Im joking of course but for GetDPI folks make sure you got some fast cards. I have the Lexar 1000 now but I'm going to get the 2000. I don't want my SD cards winding up to be a bottleneck. Don't say anything on the other forums lets keep this one to ourselves. LOL
:thumbup::ROTFL:
Guy, I don't need no stink'n fast cards I will never use the uncompressed RAW option......... My stuff isn't, nor hasn't, suffered without it so there is no need to use it and load up my externals with unneeded additional MB's or spend more money of faster and bigger cards and memory devices.
I look at it like putting a supercharged hemi in a golf cart ........ guess in some situations it would be nice to have but overall the added weight, gas consumption, broken drivetrains and lug bolts along with all the other associated issues just make's it not worth the effort in a area you are restricted to 20mph on. "Design Intent" again ..... :deadhorse:
Guy, I don't need no stink'n fast cards
I will never use the uncompressed RAW option......... My stuff isn't, nor hasn't, suffered without it so there is no need to use it and load up my externals with unneeded additional MB's or spend more money of faster and bigger cards and memory devices.I look at it like putting a supercharged hemi in a golf cart ........ guess in some situations it would be nice to have but overall the added weight, gas consumption, broken drivetrains and lug bolts along with all the other associated issues just make's it not worth the effort in a area you are restricted to 20mph on. "Design Intent" again ..... :deadhorse:
V
Vivek
Guest
:ROTFL:
I don't "whine". I just vote with my wallet.
I am really looking forward to the updates for my A7/7R/7S and a great A6000 successor.
Good call on the SD cards. :thumbup:
Well, I'm very happy to have the option to shoot lossless with the A7RII, even if it's uncompressed. I assume it was easier to implement this way and probably much less computationally expensive, for a camera that's already quite challenged in the speed and battery life department. I'm not complaining.
DPR also fired up rawdigger, and noted that the files are true 14-bit now, with no histogram gaps like before. So this is the real deal.
Kudos to Iliah, Jim Kasson, and the groundswell of users who cared about this issue enough to force a fix.
DPR also fired up rawdigger, and noted that the files are true 14-bit now, with no histogram gaps like before. So this is the real deal.
Kudos to Iliah, Jim Kasson, and the groundswell of users who cared about this issue enough to force a fix.