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Rx1r2

Godfrey

Well-known member
I could argue this till the cows come home but you even admitted higher profit margins. Your making a case for Leica that still rides on market share. It just happens to be in the luxury market. If they are not in it for profit than explain to me why most of there thrust is in China with special edition stuff. There after money my friend. One stockholder was rich enough to buy it and held it privately. The guy is a billionaire in other areas That relate to Leica cameras. He did not get rich not going after a market he can't tap. I've been to Leica in Germany and they want to sustain there business and grow. Sony and Leica are just playing in different markets.

Anyway this is freaking pointless. I'm not even going to bother. I'm not snowed by Sony as you think. I'll flip on a dime if I see greener pastures. But no one is doing anything to grow there technology. No one is building there own sensors either except Canon at least on the big scale.

Anyway have a great weekend
Profits are not profit margins.
Markets are not market share.

G
 
Well it's definitely not on my "must have" list. But I'm pretty sure I'll talk myself into one in about a year and a half...but I'll be buying used :)

Jordan
 

4season

Well-known member
Lately I've become convinced that what the world (at least the part of the world that has time to dawdle over such things) really craves is story: That the stuff we surround ourselves with has some deeper meaning.

It's not really the Japanese style to call attention to the efforts of individual staff members, but nevertheless you can sometimes find a few snippets, this one dating back to the original RX1 of 2012:

http://www.sony.net/Fun/design/activity/product/dsn/01.html
 

ohnri

New member
Lovely photo. What about this photo will be improved by your new RX1r II?

G
I always find comments like this intriguing.

Many of my favorite images would likely not be improved if I imagined having different gear after the fact. All I can do at this point is overlay current specs onto an image I visualized, shot, processed and printed while using a specific camera and lens and software and printer all of which I was familiar with at the time.

Any image I am proud of that I took with older gear was made knowing the strengths and limitations of that gear. With only a few exception, it was probably the best image I could make.

In fact, plenty of the images I made with my old film cameras or Olympus E-1 or Leica M9 or micro4/3's gear would be impossible for me to reproduce at all now.

That does not mean I want to go back to that gear. Far from it.

The new Rx1r2 has so many upgrades to my RX1 that I know, without doubt, it would expand the shooting envelope greatly for me. Better AF, by itself, would guarantee that.

Would any of my prior RX1 photos be suddenly better? Who knows.

Would I now be able to get a lot of images I could not get at all before?

Absolutely.

-Bill
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
...
Would I now be able to get a lot of images I could not get at all before?
Absolutely.
Why are you so sure of that?

I like new equipment with expanded capabilities, but when I look at my digital gear, I would say quite frankly that no matter how much better the photos they make now might be compared to what I could achieve with the gear I had in 2007, it hasn't changed the quality of my photos or my photo opportunities by one iota.

The big thing that's changed is how much I enjoy making the photos plus how much my eyes have changed over the past decade. The cameras has been the smallest part of it.

G
 

Lucille

New member
Indeed. That's why I nearly always have a camera with me too. Usually small, good lens, quick operating, etc. It can be anything from a Leica X to a Polaroid SX-70, to the M-P. I usually don't take out the DSLR or any heavyweight gear unless I have something specific in mind for it.

But moving from an RX1 to an RX1r II? What's so huge about the upgrade as to make a huge difference in the results? More pixels? More dynamic range? How much more do you need?

I can't see it.

G


You don't need to see it, just I do, as the purchase is for me and not you.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
If Sony is selling everything they make, why are there so many new Sony RX1r cameras available? Never mind A7, A7r, etc?

Leica is the only camera company currently operating at its production capacity, and it is privately held... no public shareholders... with the highest profits currently in the industry. They're not really going for market share; they're expanding and opening markets for Leica products with new products. Not the same thing at all. They're playing a smart game, where Sony is just replacing their own products, over and over again, on too short a cycle.

This is why the Sony strategy ultimately fails. Most buyers don't want to be told ten months later that their state of the art joy is now yesterday's junk. I'm sure I don't. And to appeal to repurchasers enough to get them to open their wallets, Sony has to do something wackily over the top on every cycle with no real time for proper development.

They've seemingly really sold you and many others on this damaged product strategy. Sony's profitability has been in the toilet for several years. How long do you think they can keep it up at this rate?

G
Different strokes for different folks. Simple as that.

You're entitled to your opinion and it could be true for you. We all have different needs for instance I'd never buy a Leica Q on account that it's built around a 28mm lens and it's more than I'd be comfortable with spending on a camera such as that. Plenty of people love it though and I've handled it so I can understand why some do even when it's not for me. I can say the same about the RX1 or RX1m2... neither of which I own and probably don't plan on owning.

I for one would never owna Leica X anything or a Leica T for reasons that if I wanted a cropped sensor I'd buy a Fuji X100, X mount, or a Micro 4/3 camera. Just my opinion though. Doesn't mean you're wrong for loving your Leica X but I found that they weren't for me.
 

ohnri

New member
Why are you so sure of that?

G
Better AF all by its lonesome.

Plus, many upgrades of many cameras have shown me that when a large number of items is incrementally improved it inevitably expands the shooting window in new and unpredictable ways.

But, in this case, better AF all by itself guarantees it.

-Bill
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
You don't need to see it, just I do, as the purchase is for me and not you.
For sure. But I was interested in discussing the why and what you see, in hopes of understanding.

Spot on.

Also, just give me a better tool and I will figure out to do with it what I couldn't do before.
What was your last camera upgrade? And what did it allow you to figure out how to do that you couldn't do before?

I am actually really curious about these notions.

G
 

biglouis

Well-known member
Indeed. That's why I nearly always have a camera with me too. Usually small, good lens, quick operating, etc. It can be anything from a Leica X to a Polaroid SX-70, to the M-P. I usually don't take out the DSLR or any heavyweight gear unless I have something specific in mind for it.

But moving from an RX1 to an RX1r II? What's so huge about the upgrade as to make a huge difference in the results? More pixels? More dynamic range? How much more do you need?

I can't see it.

G
I would say three things are worth an upgrade (even though I no longer own a RX1):

- inbuilt EVF - the external one works but completely spoils the ergonomics of the RX1/R
- articulating screen - very useful feature which is at last recognised as an essential feature on a professional digital camera;
- additional pixels for cropping and the additional dynamic range- useful for all sorts of situations.

Now, I was willing to compromise on 2 & 3 and put an order in for a Leica Q. But now the RX1R2 is out I no longer need to do so.

LouisB
 

ohnri

New member
Why are you so sure of that?

I like new equipment with expanded capabilities, but when I look at my digital gear, I would say quite frankly that no matter how much better the photos they make now might be compared to what I could achieve with the gear I had in 2007, it hasn't changed the quality of my photos or my photo opportunities by one iota.

The big thing that's changed is how much I enjoy making the photos plus how much my eyes have changed over the past decade. The cameras has been the smallest part of it.

G
My photo opportunities have changed radically since 2007 due to new gear.

In fact, they have changed within the last year. A lot.

Indeed, even within the past couple of months as the A7r2 opened new doors.

I expect another big shift in my photo opportunities when my A7s2 arrives.

-Bill
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Better AF all by its lonesome.

Plus, many upgrades of many cameras have shown me that when a large number of items is incrementally improved it inevitably expands the shooting window in new and unpredictable ways.

But, in this case, better AF all by itself guarantees it.
That's very interesting that "better AF" is such a factor. When you say "better", what do you mean? Faster? More accurate? More consistent? I focus manually about 75% of the time ... What am I missing?

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
My photo opportunities have changed radically since 2007 due to new gear.
In fact, they have changed within the last year. A lot.
Indeed, even within the past couple of months as the A7r2 opened new doors.
I expect another big shift in my photo opportunities when my A7s2 arrives.
Can you speak in more specific terms about what those changes were with the A7r II?

G
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
No worries, we just reached Godfrey's usual stress level whenever people get carryed away by a new toy.:p
One needs somebody who cools down consumers to relativize their wettest dreams. It wan't help though ;)

I would probably buy this camera and the A7rII as well and oh not to forget the new A7s and all the new Sony's, Milvius's, Otus's and Batis's
lenses if money was growing on my back but unfortunatly it isn't. I congratulate everybody who does.
Leica isn't in my dreams, thank god.

Pricewise Sony is upgrading itself direction Leica, justifyed by the fact that they are a lot more innovating as the rest.
 
Indeed. That's why I nearly always have a camera with me too. Usually small, good lens, quick operating, etc. It can be anything from a Leica X to a Polaroid SX-70, to the M-P. I usually don't take out the DSLR or any heavyweight gear unless I have something specific in mind for it.

But moving from an RX1 to an RX1r II? What's so huge about the upgrade as to make a huge difference in the results? More pixels? More dynamic range? How much more do you need?

I can't see it.

G
The biggest complaints I ever saw about the RX1 were that the AF was not up to par and that there was no integrated viewfinder. Just having those two points addressed likely pushes the camera across a usability threshold for many people, myself included. Better high ISO performance is always a good thing. The boost in megapixels seems more of a burden than a benefit in many ways, but not such a bad burden to have, increasing the cropping possibilities from a one-lens camera that may be carried by itself.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
That's very interesting that "better AF" is such a factor. When you say "better", what do you mean? Faster? More accurate? More consistent? I focus manually about 75% of the time ... What am I missing?

G
AF that actually freaking works. All of it are major improvements with the A7rII. You may want to read up on it from Sonys documentation as its really even a big improvement over the A7II. It completely smokes the A7 and A7r in just about every category. This are not incremental either . its big improvements in real world. Its faster more accurate more consistent and the AF is there when you want it or not. Big difference than the A7, A7r. The list goes on.
 
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