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Rx1r2

Tim

Active member
My, you Sonyista are a sensitive bunch!

=I hope it inspires you to make stunning photographs, works of such delicacy and emotion as to bring a person to tears or laughter, whichever is your intent.

I hope Sony achieves the gains in market share you wish them to, and maybe a little profit along the way, to fund the next one (RX1r III OR BUST!).


At least until the next upgrade... ]'-)

G
I have no camera brand loyalties anywhere, I am fickle and will drop a brand for another at another drop - a hat :ROTFL: So no sensitivity with me, merely a discussion. I hope it stays this way.

There have only been a few cameras that inspired me. One was my OM4. A brilliant idea, multispot metering. It somehow worked where the OM2 didn't.
The Contax T3 yielded a very high percentage of keepers than no other camera has, and that lens.. oh, the pop the rendering. Super.
The Ricoh GR in all its forms has been a constant companion because as a compact it has worked well where others failed.

I always believed with many items that I have owned that I will adapt to the device, car, camera whatever. But I think as I age I don't adapt easily anymore. The RX1r II may fit.

To all of you here, who I consider you are all my friends, use what you like and make some images.
Please tell me about your camera and the experience, but please don't be offended if I don't buy what you have bought.
 

raist3d

Well-known member
Indeed. That's why I nearly always have a camera with me too. Usually small, good lens, quick operating, etc. It can be anything from a Leica X to a Polaroid SX-70, to the M-P. I usually don't take out the DSLR or any heavyweight gear unless I have something specific in mind for it.

But moving from an RX1 to an RX1r II? What's so huge about the upgrade as to make a huge difference in the results? More pixels? More dynamic range? How much more do you need?

I can't see it.

G
What about simply new buyers for the RX1r II model, making it more competitive vs what's out there? To me personally- I am interested in more pixels because it allows for more focal lengths from a single prime. Also the ISO has been improved and other characteristics. Plus I think it's a charm to be able to have an EVF and hide it keeping the camera small.

Small is important to me. In fact, if I had an RX1 and did most of my photography with it, that ability to have the EVF tucked inside would almost sell me on that alone.

I don't have one so count me in the consideration of a new buyer. Small, ultra high quality glass, state of the art sensor for street night life sounds interesting to me. The only reason I am not preordering right now is because 35mm is not my favorite or main focal length.

That's why I am very interested if Sony could do a digital crop at least for framing even if the full shot is the 42 MP in raw.

- Ricardo
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
My, you Sonyista are a sensitive bunch!I have no agenda and no issues with all of you enjoying the livin' crap out of the RX1r II when you get it. I hope it inspires you to make stunning photographs, works of such delicacy and emotion as to bring a person to tears or laughter, whichever is your intent. I hope Sony achieves the gains in market share you wish them to, and maybe a little profit along the way, to fund the next one (RX1r III OR BUST!). I will enjoy sitting on the sidelines and watching you thrill to the crisp new feel of your Sonys whilst I putter about with the various junk I use. And I promise not to question why any further.At least until the next upgrade... ]'-)G
I don't think people are sensitive so much as tired of reading owners of other cameras go out of their way to insult owners of cameras that they claim to have no interest in due to their enthusiasm. If your camera doesn't give you that feeling then I can say that's unfortunate for you. If it did then you wouldn't have to ask why or how people are enthusiastic about their camera.

As for brand loyalty I think many have owned or own other brands. They just choose Sony now. I started with Canon, went to Panasonic, Leica, and then Sony. No brand loyalty so much as one that invest in the best available tool for me. I don't care what's best for others - even within the same system mount.

I think most here know I've been pretty vocal about FE lenses that don't work for me such as the 35/2.8 or the 24-70/4. So it's not that people blindly shout the praises of Sony but rather love that they are responsive to the desires of owners.
 
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raist3d

Well-known member
My, you Sonyista are a sensitive bunch!
This alone says something man. Hehe. I mean, I hardly use Sony and I am interested. Why label people in a group.

I have no agenda and no issues with all of you enjoying the livin' crap out of the RX1r II when you get it. I hope it inspires you to make stunning photographs, works of such delicacy and emotion as to bring a person to tears or laughter, whichever is your intent.

I hope Sony achieves the gains in market share you wish them to, and maybe a little profit along the way, to fund the next one (RX1r III OR BUST!).
I don't think anyone here is praying, wishing, sacrificing to some god or really talking about specific terms of Sony gaining market share as if it as their new born baby. Anyhow, Sony market share worldwide for cameras is #3 and the Camera, Sensor and Computer Entertainment division (that's Playstation) are doing pretty well AFAIK.

I will enjoy sitting on the sidelines and watching you thrill to the crisp new feel of your Sonys whilst I putter about with the various junk I use. And I promise not to question why any further.

At least until the next upgrade... ]'-)

G
Maybe you should post photos next time :)

- Ricardo
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Insults don't contribute to an enjoyable and productive forum experience.
They should really stop or be stopped!
 
I'm glad this thread has got past a brief snarky stage and has become peaceful again. It's actually caused me to reflect on what I expect from a camera!

Because of its technical innovations – slight to some, more important to others – those who've posted here have naturally focused on the camera's electronic features like autofocus, EVF, presence/absence of image stabilization, etc. But while the tech specifications look promising, it still matters a lot to me how a camera feels in my hands. The 'RX2' would have to pass a feeling/fondling test. The sensor in my A7rII really impresses me and makes me interested in the new Sony as a constant-companion or carry-around camera to match my larger one. But I'd have to handle one to know.

I've felt really really just right with only two cameras, M4 and Rollei TLR. These seemed custom-made (in their different ways) to match my eyes, hands, body, and points-of-view. The M4 in particular came to feel like a material extension of my body and vision.

Turning to digital, I tried DSLRs and regarded them as functional but overbearing, looking and feeling like military-grade weaponry. Then everything changed when a friend suggested we have lunch so she could show me her new discovery, an M8. She predicted this would be the most expensive lunch I'd ever eaten. She was right – I handled it and bonded.

The M8/M9/MM/M-E have felt to me like slightly paunchy versions of a perfect camera, perhaps because of years of muscle-memory about how to hold and use them and how to focus via rangefinder. And I've persisted with them beyond the point, perhaps, of financial sense and practicality, largely because they've felt right to me. I've recently tried other cameras (X100s and A7), but I couldn't get a feel for them. I fired the Fuji in happy little bursts but felt like I was blowing my sense of care and discipline. The A7 seemed good enough as long as I was deluded into thinking it would work well with most Leica lenses. But it never felt right to me.

Now I'm using the A7rII for landscapes, on a tripod with L-bracket, MATE, and WATE, and a couple of other lenses. Thus encumbered any camera would feel awkward, and what I love are the files. This is why I'd be interested in pairing it with an RX2. But the latter will have to fit my body, hand, and eye, well enough for me to stop missing Leicas.

Maybe everyone else was assuming that these factors of feeling and bonding were part of the picture, but only those who've been using RX1s would know about these matters ahead of time.

Kirk

PS, Whoops, while I was writing this Guy and others got upset, above and below. Or was the ban tongue-in-cheek? I rather like Sonyista – it has a prettier sound than Leicaphile.

Please reconsider exiling Godfrey – he's already bowed out of this thread, and his posts and images are always interesting.
 
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
My, you Sonyista are a sensitive bunch!

I have no agenda and no issues with all of you enjoying the livin' crap out of the RX1r II when you get it. I hope it inspires you to make stunning photographs, works of such delicacy and emotion as to bring a person to tears or laughter, whichever is your intent.

I hope Sony achieves the gains in market share you wish them to, and maybe a little profit along the way, to fund the next one (RX1r III OR BUST!).

I will enjoy sitting on the sidelines and watching you thrill to the crisp new feel of your Sonys whilst I putter about with the various junk I use. And I promise .not to question why any further.

At least until the next upgrade... ]'-)

G
That my friend just bought you a two week ban. You don't insult anyone here. You know the rules and frankly you so out of line it should be longer. I'm tired of the trolling.

Sonyista . Really
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Now let's move on. Even though this makes for me not the greatest business decision it does have some real pluses for me and I think others as well. Backup in some ways this is a nice backup to A7rII owners as your from what we are reading getting the same operational, functional to a point but more important the same file and yes owners of the 35 1.4 could easily sell that lens and use this as a replacement. So in my case it could be a if the crap hits the fan I got a cam that can serve as a backup. Now we all know a exact copy might be better like a A7rII or even a A7II but seriously this looks like a load of fun. So on my end this does have a personal touch too. It's a go anywhere travel, street and more important I got a go anywhere carry all the time camera. That's pretty appealing to me. Obviously some may share some of these reasons and some even more reasons. But I see it even not a great business case still very compelling and as some members pointed out very excited to get one. I always say this and repeat again. This is about fun for many and if it gets you out the door to enjoy this hobby than costs mean nothing.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I'm glad this thread has got past a brief snarky stage and has become peaceful again. It's actually caused me to reflect on what I expect from a camera!

Because of its technical innovations – slight to some, more important to others – those who've posted here have naturally focused on the camera's electronic features like autofocus, EVF, presence/absence of image stabilization, etc. But while the tech specifications look promising, it still matters a lot to me how a camera feels in my hands. The 'RX2' would have to pass a feeling/fondling test. The sensor in my A7rII really impresses me and makes me interested in the new Sony as a constant-companion or carry-around camera to match my larger one. But I'd have to handle one to know.

I've felt really really just right with only two cameras, M4 and Rollei TLR. These seemed custom-made (in their different ways) to match my eyes, hands, body, and points-of-view. The M4 in particular came to feel like a material extension of my body and vision.

Turning to digital, I tried DSLRs and regarded them as functional but overbearing, looking and feeling like military-grade weaponry. Then everything changed when a friend suggested we have lunch so she could show me her new discovery, an M8. She predicted this would be the most expensive lunch I'd ever eaten. She was right – I handled it and bonded.

The M8/M9/MM/M-E have felt to me like slightly overweight versions of a perfect camera, perhaps because of years of muscle-memory about how to hold and use them and how to focus via rangefinder. And I've persisted with them beyond the point, perhaps, of financial sense and practicality, largely because they've felt right to me. I've recently tried other cameras (X100s and A7), but I couldn't get a feel for them. I fired the Fuji in happy little bursts but felt like I was blowing my sense of care and discipline. The A7 seemed good enough as long as I was deluded into thinking it would work well with most Leica lenses. But it never felt right to me.

Now I'm using the A7rII for landscapes, on a tripod with L-bracket, MATE, and WATE, and a couple of other lenses. Thus encumbered, I suppose no camera feels too awkward, and what I love are the files. This is why I'd be interested in pairing it with an RX2. But the latter will have to fit my body, hand, and eye, well enough for me to stop missing Leicas.

Maybe everyone else was assuming that these factors of feeling and bonding were part of the picture, but only those who've been using RX1s would know about these matters ahead of time.

Kirk

PS, Whoops, while I was writing this Guy got upset, below. Or was that tongue-in-cheek? I rather like Sonyista – it has a prettier sound than Leicaphile.

Please don't banish Godfrey – he's already bowed out of this thread, and his posts and images are always interesting.
Kirk I was never upset as much as some would think even worse being defensive. I don't like bait trolling and insults. I'm just following the rules in place. I know one thing for fact we see anyone write Leica fanboy my PM box lights up like a Christmas tree. Sonyvista in my mind is a insult and some members made comments to that effect. That's a instant rule violation.
 
OK, I didn't appreciate what constitutes bad language. I should have said just that I personally took Sonyista to be more humorous than insulting.

And if/when concerned about administrative matters in the future, I'll send a PM.

Beg your pardon,

K
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Here's a quote from the Imaging Resource preview that highlights another disadvantage of the pop-up viewfinder:

"The new viewfinder also includes another feature which that on the RX100 IV lacks: A nice, soft rubber eyecup that helps shield stray light, letting you focus on the subject. This I wasn't quite so enamored with.

Don't get me wrong: As I said, it's a really nice eyecup, and it answers a key complaint I had with the RX100 IV finder. The problem, though, is that you have to manually attach or detach it every time the finder is raised or lowered, something which is a little fiddly to do.

And because the eyecup could easily catch on something and get lost, it's not just a matter of sliding it in place, either. You also have to tighten a small thumbscrew to affix the eyecup in place. (Although it's technically called a thumbscrew, I should note that it actually tightens -- and does so reasonably easily -- by rolling the tip of your index finger over it.)

Once installed, I think the eyecup is a great addition to the Sony RX1R II's viewfinder. I have a feeling that I'd leave it in place most of the time, though, rather than fussing with removing and reinstalling it over and over. (And doing so means you lose the size advantage of a retractable finder.)"


To me, it seems like the marketing and design departments have joined forces to claim a victory over any photographers working at the product development department. A permanent viewfinder would have resulted in a bump, a larger body, a smaller LCD or any combination of the three. So they chose to stay with the classic design and make a technically advanced, but rather fiddly solution instead. I think it's a mistake, for this is a camera that, if I were to buy it, I would probably want to live with for many years. I'm not sure that I would trust this viewfinder solution to last that long, but I may of course be wrong. Let's see when it appears in the shops.

The complete preview is here:
Sony RX1R II Review: Hands-On Preview
 

4season

Well-known member
I think as I age I don't adapt easily anymore.
Bingo.

But I try to stay a bit outside of my comfort zone. I don't feel like I need to "get" the form factor, the marketing image, brand name or style of a product in order to be interested in the possibilities it offers. Original NEX5? Thought it was sort of fugly and more than a little toylike but I liked the small size and big sensor enough to take it seriously.

I think the RX1 looks pretty good. I'm having some problems wrapping my mind around the idea of paying $3300 for such a small thing. At the same time I wonder if it's the best 35mm lens that money can buy right now, matched to the sensor as it is, without compromising to fit a legacy lens mount. It's a "maybe" for me but no rush because I still like the A7 + 35/2.8 just fine, and RX1 is not going to slide into a cargo pants pocket any better. For now, the Ricoh GR still seems like best (cargo pants) pocketful of pixels.
 

retow

Member
As a recovering Leicaholic (M9 and Q and too many M-lenses) I take no offense in Sonyista (have the A7IIr & Rx100IV). Cheer up, people:grin:
 

Lucille

New member
When the Rx1 1st came out, it was a incredible marvel to me, and it came out of left field, we weren't expecting such a offering. I took a chance on it, high price tag and all. When I took possession of it and started shooting, it immediately felt right in my hand. Aperture is very easy to set, it has a iso button and the dial button for shutter speed, I found shooting in full manual very easy and I found I could adjust my settings very quickly. After running around the house and yard taking some awful and boring shots, I went to see the files on the monitor and my tongue dropped. I couldn't believe the fullness, the richness I was seeing in the Rx1 files. This camera inspired me to shoot, just to see how the images would come out, how the sensor and lens was rendering whatever my subject was. I thought then, and I still think today, the RX1 has some of the best IQ my eyes have seen. A lot of you don't know much about me, let me just say I have shot with a lot of systems in a lot of conditions, I have done many paid jobs and many freebies as well as my own photo adventures. I do it because I have a burn inside of my soul that must do it, I must press the shutter button, it is who I am.

The Sony RX1 and I bonded and very quickly, it became a extension of my mind and hand. It also became the final nail in Canon's coffin for me, and I ran all of my Canon gear out the door. At that time I had no idea that there would be a A7, A7S, A7R, ect. All I knew is the IQ was so damn good, the RX1 basicly had ruined other cameras for me. As I used other systems such as my Micro 4/3rds, Fuji, Samsung, I would shoot images and always find myself wondering how that same image would have come out had I of shot it with the RX1.

I have never been one to complain about a cameras limitations, rather I work with it. Those that may know me from the Micro 4/3rds forums would say that I always uploaded some quality images that I shot from the lowly, slow, clunky Olympus Epl1. I didn't complain, I went out and shot and learned how to get the most out of the camera body.

The RX1 and me were love at 1st use. I took it everywhere with me, as it is small and so easy to carry, since I always had It I always seemed to get a good shot.






Though I don't complain about a camera, I wondered how the upgrade would be for the RX1, the Worlds smallest compact full frame beast. Little did I know it wouldn't come for years. I found this camera so good I was going to buy a 2nd body and not use it much, in the event the 1st one broke. I was close to doing that several times but I always thought just buy the next version, surely Sony will release one. As time passed I gave up hope, I wound up with a A7, A7R MII, A7S, all very nice and I love them, but they all lack that mojo, that soul that the RX1 has, I know not all will agree with this, but this is how it is for me. The RX1 did everything for me, it has been my main body for a few paid weddings I did. I would read about its struggles in AF and in lowlight, I never encountered this, my RX1 can focus pretty easily and quickly enough in lowlight, in fact this is where I use it the most. I love how it renders in black and white also. I am not one that spends a ton of time in post, maybe 3-5 minute a image, I try and get my look right in camera.






For me, shooting with a fixed lens 35mm improved my photography, I learned to see the world through a 35mm perspective, and zoom with my feet, I learned to compose better then I ever had before, I learned to do things and react to situations without thinking, if that makes sense. I learned to have fun, shooting with the RX1 is fun for me.



a long exposure selfie I did, RX1 on a tripod, timer used on the shutter as I stood still in this laser room




Night time and lowlight photography was fun, cool, it has a different look, not a lot do it, and the RX1 opened that door of creativity for me. I have shot a lot of cars in the darkness with the RX1.






I am very excited about the upcoming RX1R II, the original RX1 to me was a cult classic, I don't know how I will bond with the new RX1R II, I suspect I will, I just knew over 3 years ago, I was buying this camera. This camera changed my photography, and that is powerful.
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
Wow, that's escalated quickly !!

Given the choice and knowing the + and -, I would jump more onto a classic RX1r than the new one. Just because of solidity and less moving parts. My justified fear is about the EVF and the tilt-screen. The EVF, one day, will not retract anymore or might suck dirts and dusts. The tilt screen might be broken pretty quickly. The basic RX1r would suit my needs more. This is just in the frame of my day use, not a generality.

I just wish I can find 1.6 grand to offer me a simple RX1r :p
 

jerome_m

Member
Given the choice and knowing the + and -, I would jump more onto a classic RX1r than the new one. Just because of solidity and less moving parts. My justified fear is about the EVF and the tilt-screen. The EVF, one day, will not retract anymore or might suck dirts and dusts. The tilt screen might be broken pretty quickly. The basic RX1r would suit my needs more. This is just in the frame of my day use, not a generality.
I have a RX100 MIII, which uses the same retracting EVF. It works fine, but it is a rather flimsy construction. I am always very careful when pushing it back in and would not like to use that camera in dusty settings. The tilt screen, on the other hand, appears well constructed.

This being said, I also have the RX1 (the old one). The RX1 is a great camera with one of the best 35mm lens money can buy and is solidly built, but I find it almost unusable without an external viewfinder. I tried an optical viewfinder, but it will not tell you about focus, so I have the electronic viewfinder. It is good, but also a rather flimsy construction with tiny contacts and a very fine hinge.
 

biglouis

Well-known member
No. I have many questions as to why people are so excited.

G
I can only state that for myself I like using fixed lens digital cameras, e.g. Ricoh GR and Sigma DPxMs.

I did own a RX1 and regretted selling it soon after I had because there was no 35mm lens for the Sony A7 series that I liked. I've been considering a s/h RX1 for many months but hesitated because of the rumours of something improved on the horizon.

I finally cracked and put in an order for a Leica Q coming to the conclusion that Sony were abandoning the RX1 format. Now they have shown they haven't and I can order one as soon as the it opens here in the UK.

That is why I am excited. And having waited I will get an EVF, articulating screen and bigger opportunity to crop (and possibly better high iso).

LouisB
 
V

Vivek

Guest
That is why I am excited. And having waited I will get an EVF, articulating screen and bigger opportunity to crop (and possibly better high iso).

LouisB
Louis, I will add to that the possibility to flash synch to 1/2000s. More than the presence of the EVF, I am glad that the hideous pop up flash is gone.
 

Annna T

Active member
I spent the grand amount of $650 for a new Polaroid SX-70 with rebuilt electronics and calibrated for 600 film a few weeks ago. Called the SLR670a by MiNT. It's making beautiful photographs for me, clearly my best performing Polaroid, and I'm very enthused about what I can do with it. But of course it's no umpteen bazigapixel AF Zeiss-lensed whirligig that can make movies and 40x60 inch prints without breathing hard. It just makes beautiful little photographs when I point it in the right direction and press the button at the right time...

I'm sure no one here cares at all, but as a photographer's tool it has the spontaneity and connection between me and my subjects that I hope the Sony WunderMachin gives to all the aspiring Sonyista.

G
There are "passéistes" in all human activities :)

That said, I would never never again get me a camera with a single fixed focal length, whatever it is. Neither one with a bad all round fixed zoom. I want the flexibility of interchangeable lenses. So no the Rx1m2 isn't tempting me (it's only advantage is its small size).

Things are a bit different when it comes to the A7r2.
A) I'm tempted by some of the new improvements : better AF, IBIS, slightly improved sensor, silent shooting, electronic first curtain shutter, less noisy shutter with respect to the A7r even in normal shooting mode. And better support for the legacy lenses both for focusing and corners sharpness/vignetting (Contax G lenses in particular).

B) I'm split concerning its ergonomics. Some buttons may be better positioned, but I don't like the increased size. In fact I have few complaints with the A7r ergonomics (aside of the menus that are ill organized). And I'm split about the increased resolution : it will create a supplementary burden on the computer and NAS server, while I don't need it for what I do. But it will allow more cropping, replacing longer lenses in some situations. At the price of the A7r, I may have upgraded : the balance of advantages and drawbacks favors that.

C) What is refraining me from upgrading right now is the steep increase in price. I got the A7r some five-six months after its announcement for about the equivalent of 2100$ (8% VAT included), but the best price I can find for the A7r2 is of 3549$ (8% VAT included). If it was costing 1000$ less, I would probably get one, in spite of B) but keep the A7r for those cases where I want to go light. As is I have decided to wait until well after Christmas season in order to see whether I could get a lower price. But I bet that they will hold prices high for quite a while and that the next iteration will come later than the first one. As a side note : there seems to be plenty of A7r2 in stock here, unlike the A7r which was rather difficult to get to in 2013-2014. Sony said they were surprised by the success of the A7r, may be they hadn't produced enough ? Or the A7r2 is priced too high and stays on the shelves. People often got the A7r as a second light system, but with its increased price and size, it is rather a call for a system change. And inducing people to switch from a whole system to another is much more difficult that convincing them to get a second light camera. So hopefully the price will come down in a few months.
 
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