Comparing A7R2 compressed and uncompressed raw files

[dmward]

... I just can't get my copy of Lightroom to open a uncompressed RAW file from my a7rII ...

Not being able to open the raw files is probably because your version of LR did not support a recent enough version of the ACR engine. One thing Adobe does is update camera support in point releases of the ACR engine. They then have life cycle limits on the version of Lightroom or Photoshop the point versions support.

Not sure how Capture One does the camera updates.

Since I use the Adobe products everyday and keep them up-to-date their update methodology isn't a problem. If one is trying to use an older version of software with newer camera(s) it can be problematic.

If you still have LR available, you might try downloading the latest ACR engine update. The Adobe site probably has a compatibility table that will confirm if the latest version will run with your version of Lightroom.

 

[dmward]

... I said nothing wrong about LR in this thread all I said was I'm waiting on C1. It's my preferred software and my opinion is it's better as it always has been. ...

Guy, that's exactly the point. We each have a preferred workflow using software with which we're comfortable.

I haven't done any comparison testing between LR and C1 because I don't see the need either. I've also not had situations where LR caused the perceived problems others claim.

I also am waiting impatiently to see what additional lens options are going to be available.

My point in making the observation about LR bashing in this thread is that there are lots of really good photographers processing really great images in Lightroom, Camera One, and a lot of other software as well. Just like there are a lot of great images being processed on Windows computers as well as Macs.

And, heaven forbid, there are even great pictures being made with Canon and Nikon cameras.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy, that's exactly the point. We each have a preferred workflow using software with which we're comfortable.

I haven't done any comparison testing between LR and C1 because I don't see the need either. I've also not had situations where LR caused the perceived problems others claim.

I also am waiting impatiently to see what additional lens options are going to be available.

My point in making the observation about LR bashing in this thread is that there are lots of really good photographers processing really great images in Lightroom, Camera One, and a lot of other software as well. Just like there are a lot of great images being processed on Windows computers as well as Macs.

And, heaven forbid, there are even great pictures being made with Canon and Nikon cameras.

You had me shaking my head in agreement up to the very last sentence. ROTFLMAO. Im kidding of course, I have to get my rub in. Im like a athlete going back to where they dumped you from a team and you have to play that team and ya just wanna give them a jab or two. LOL

 

[Jim DE]

David it had something to do with a U44M1P7 error which in Adobes wonderful way pointed me to a dead end with some extension manager...... Kern invalid

Way too deep for this user and I refuse to talk to their foreign techs so I have trashed it entirely .... Didn't use it much and liked it even less so no great loss for me and one less aggregation to deal with.

I have had photoshop since PS7 and might use this software 2-4 images a year... I can live without Adobe. I am glad for those who butter their bread with Adobe products as it makes no difference to me what someone else uses to shoot with or process with. Really it doesn't ... But for me my many year dislike for PS's user interface and the BS I went through upgrading LR from 5-6 were the straws that broke this a Camels back on this issue. The only reason I don't delete CS6 right now is the $750 I paid way back when for Mac PS7 and all the money I spent upgrading and on college courses to have and use the versions over the years. LR 5 and 6 I might of used on 30-40 images total over the years and decided I did not enjoy using it.

 

[thompsonkirk]

If I might interrupt to mention the subject of the thread:

David, this is just what I needed to know. I downloaded the upgrade but hadn't decided yet about using it, because I often stitch a couple of files together and thought they'd be clumsy in size, even on the new MacPro. But your clouds persuade me that the highlight detail is worth all the 'real estate' that the uncompressed files will occupy.

Thank you very much!

Kirk

 

[Ario Arioldi]

Yup, C1 update, where are you? What takes you so long?

Iridient works just fine. It's cheap and easy to learn.

I suspect they are waiting for Apple to release the update of El Capitan so to officilally support also OSX 10.11

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I am with Guy on this. Although I feel the "orange peel" artefacts are somewhat underdefined I am pretty sure they may be related to sharpening in Lightroom. Farther, I have seen quite a few demosaic artefacts in LR 6.2 with my P45+ back.

Just to say, I am pretty happy with Lightroom, but if I want best detail from non OLP-filtered sensors Lightroom is not the tool for that. So the day I print 30"x40" I perhaps convert using RawTherapee to tiff and than process that tiff with Lightroom and print from Lightroom.

I hoped Adobe would have a new processing pipe line in 6.0, but I guess we need to wait for the next version.

Best regards
Erik

That's not exactly true. Orange peel effect was never in C1 and no one I saw took the effort to even try C1 on some of those star effect shots. There are others but I'm not going to even try to remember them. I said nothing wrong about LR in this thread all I said was I'm waiting on C1. It's my preferred software and my opinion is it's better as it always has been. I'm not here to prove it , convert anyone or even take the time to test it over and over again either. I've been using C1 for at least 10 years, maybe longer. If I need to I'll shot compressed until C1 is updated which should be tomorrow anyway. Photo plus actually starts tomorrow on the show floor. But besides all this crap which I consider over now I just want to hear what lenses Sony is coming out with. I have a open lens spot in my bag and I want to fill it. Lol

I'm a lens whore and I can't be going around with a open hole in my bag. It must be filled.

 

[NoBob]

Any chance of getting this thread back on track? I thought it was about comparing A7r2 compressed and uncompressed raw file results...

 

[tn1krr]

To my eye looking at the 100% detail, the uncompressed file has more detail at both ends of the tonal curve. That's good news.

I've been saying (and so have others, like the guy who took the infamous star trail / artefact pic that pretty started the whole "Sony RAW compressions wars") all the time that there would be more details to be extracted from highlights in lossless files (where the compressed data is "thinnest") and equally many times I've been explained to that this is not true. I'll do my own testing once I have time and I've cured this flue, but to my eye the pulled clouds in your shots look better too.

I took some indoor test shots of my own and after initial look I have this gut feeling that with uncompressed RAW certain vertical details like those found in animal eyes can take sharpening better without developing sharpening artefacts.

 

[ShooterSteve]

I am having trouble understanding why a thread that compares compressed to uncompressed Sony A7RII raw files has turned into yet another harangue against Adobe software.

There are several competent raw processing software options. None are perfect. Each has its attributes.

I use Lightroom because I started with it during version 1 and have developed a workflow that works for me and an understanding about how it works that makes processing images quick and repeatable for me.

I've used others, most notably Capture One several years ago with I was editing jobs with a colleague who had chosen C1 as his preferred processing software. Based on that experience I know it works. I never got comfortable with it and it never showed me capabilities that made me want to use it rather than Lightroom.

I have the version of Capture that is offered by Sony for the A7RII. I suppose I could convert the test images to DNG and do the same comparison using Capture 1.

It would take me quite a bit longer to accomplish because I have no idea what parameters to use.

And, when I finished the thread would probably be overwhelmed with posts telling me what I did wrong.

I too have based my workflow on the entire Adobe suite for many years. I have however, thanks to this forum, started to output the Sony files from C1 as tiffs for some images that had issues in LR. Since I exclusively use C1 for tethering, (as it is the industry standard), I've been trying to get comfortable in learning the processing side of it.

I have not installed the update in my A7R2 yet to avoid any issues but am wondering, can I continue to shoot in compressed raw and use C1 until they update after the firmware update? Or am I locked out of C1 after the camera update?

Thanks

 

[dmward]

Steve,
I expect that the compressed option in the V2 firmware results in exactly the same raw file the camera produces in V1 firmware. So, you should be able to update the firmware and still be able to create files that C1 can open.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I too have based my workflow on the entire Adobe suite for many years. I have however, thanks to this forum, started to output the Sony files from C1 as tiffs for some images that had issues in LR. Since I exclusively use C1 for tethering, (as it is the industry standard), I've been trying to get comfortable in learning the processing side of it.

I have not installed the update in my A7R2 yet to avoid any issues but am wondering, can I continue to shoot in compressed raw and use C1 until they update after the firmware update? Or am I locked out of C1 after the camera update?

Thanks

I think your fine, I have not tried yet though. But I did hear a update is coming this week at the photo plus show. It just opened today

 

[dmward]

Steve,
I just loaded the same set of test images into C1 for Sony. The compressed files are available the uncompressed are black.

So, good to go and when C1 updates the uncompressed files should be visible without reimporting.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Thanks David for checking.

 

[k-hawinkler]

Steve,
I just loaded the same set of test images into C1 for Sony. The compressed files are available the uncompressed are black.

So, good to go and when C1 updates the uncompressed files should be visible without reimporting.

+1.

Compressed raws and JPGs still work fine in C1 after updating the A7r2. Uncompressed raws are blacked out or one gets gibberish.
I am running OS X El Capitan Version 10.11.1 (15B42).

 

[Knorp]

Steve,
I just loaded the same set of test images into C1 for Sony. The compressed files are available the uncompressed are black.

So, good to go and when C1 updates the uncompressed files should be visible without reimporting.

Well yes that may be true, but is compressed for the time being not the safer option ?

 

[k-hawinkler]

I only shoot uncompressed now, have more than enough processing power and disk space! :grin:

 

[scho]

You can open and process A7RII uncompressed raws that have been converted to DNG. Most of my processing is done in LR, but I also occasionally use C1 and just tried this to see if it worked.

 

[dmward]

You can open and process A7RII uncompressed raws that have been converted to DNG. Most of my processing is done in LR, but I also occasionally use C1 and just tried this to see if it worked.

I found that DNG Editor did not like the uncompressed files. However, Lightroom export will create the DNGs. They open in C1 8.3.3 for Sony.

 

[dmward]

Here are the same images, exported from Lightroom as DNG and then processed in C1 8.3.3 for Sony

Uncompressed file on left.

Highlight area Highlights 75, Shadows 100, EV 0



Shadow area



Highlight area Pushed 3 EV Highlights 75, Shadows 100.



Shadow area