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Argh! Silent shutter got me.

dandrewk

New member
If the banding is AC cycle originated ( which I have no reason to doubt) can't it be avoided using silent shutter at a shutter speed above the cycle like we do with regular shutters and flor lighting in studios to cancel the 60 cycle hum banding?

Just thinking aloud... I never use silent shutter anyway but did learn early how to eliminate 60 cycle hum in my studio images with shutter speeds.
I've read banding in SS mode will be avoided at 1/100 sec. shutter speeds and slower. As mentioned, it appears with artificial lighting, mostly fluorescent of CFLs.

I love silent shutter mode in situations where total quiet is needed. It makes a huge difference shooting in family situations.

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Edited for proofreading error.
 
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Zlatko Batistich

New member
I've read banding in SS mode will be avoided at 1/100 sec. shutter speeds and faster. As mentioned, it appears with artificial lighting, mostly fluorescent of CFLs.

I love silent shutter mode in situations where total quiet is needed. It makes a huge difference shooting in family situations.
If the banding is caused by fluorescent lighting, then a shutter speed of 1/60th or slower will be needed to avoid the banding. Some lights may require 1/50th or slower. Shutter speeds of 1/100th and faster are very likely to show banding.
 

dandrewk

New member
Yes indeed, I got it backwards and fixed the post. It's -slower- than 1/100 second, not faster.

I read somewhere that anything 1/100 or slower will effectively eliminate banding. But if possible, I'd go slower.
 

Bob Parsons

New member
Hi Annna,

Here is great article on how the silent shutter works: How fast is the a7RII silent shutter?: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

I would guess that most light flicker with power line frequency, 50 or 60 Hz depending on where you live. The power lines are in very good sync. So that is the reason they don't cancel out.

Best regards
Erik
I was rather surprised to see the effect. My reasoning was that each street is probably supplied with a different phase of a three phase supply (to equalize transformer loading). So the combined skylight from several streets would have an average value with a low intensity ripple of six pulses per cycle superimposed. A lamp is bright on the negative and positive voltage peaks of each cycle. I guess the 360Hz ripple is what you are seeing in the photo. An indoor photo with a single lamp or several lamps supplied by the same phase would show much wider and more intense bands due to the 120Hz flicker.

Bob.
 
I was rather surprised to see the effect. My reasoning was that each street is probably supplied with a different phase of a three phase supply (to equalize transformer loading).
My guess is that the banding is caused primarily by the lights on top of the central tall building. They were contributing most of the illumination to the fog, and are probably all running off the same power phase. You can see that the effect seems centered on the top of that one building.
 

PCinAZ

New member
I've read banding in SS mode will be avoided at 1/100 sec. shutter speeds and slower. As mentioned, it appears with artificial lighting, mostly fluorescent of CFLs.

I love silent shutter mode in situations where total quiet is needed. It makes a huge difference shooting in family situations.

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Edited for proofreading error.
I was playing around with this last night in the kitchen where our fluorescent lighting is terrible. I could not get a shot without banding using silent shutter on the A7rii no matter the shutter speed. I would recommend having image review on for 2 seconds with this mode for a check to see if your image is ruined. Lovely feature though and I wouldn't expect it to be as good as EFCS or mechanical shutter images.
 

dmward

Member
Is there a way to use one of the configuration presets on the function dial for silent shutter?
The idea is to setup a configuration with silent shutter for 1 or 2 so that when its needed just turn the dial to 1 and the silent shutter is activated. Then back to M, Av or Sv and its mechanical.

Even better would be to setup 2 for electronic front curtain.

Any ideas?
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

I don't know what is included in the presets, but it is worth trying. Personally I have preset 1 for handheld shooting and preset 2 for tripod mounted work.

I always use electronic first curtain, but I seldom use fast shutter speeds, never seen a problem.

EFCS allows for less lag, without EFCS the shutter needs to be closed before exposure. Shutter lag with EFCS is around 3 ms (I think) while without EFCS it is more like 100 ms or so. I have never used non EFCS on a modern Sony like A77, A99 and A7rII - all models I have.

Presets are good, I would like to have more of those. The A7rII has four additional presets that it can save on the memory card, but those are less complete.

Best regards
Erik

Is there a way to use one of the configuration presets on the function dial for silent shutter?
The idea is to setup a configuration with silent shutter for 1 or 2 so that when its needed just turn the dial to 1 and the silent shutter is activated. Then back to M, Av or Sv and its mechanical.

Even better would be to setup 2 for electronic front curtain.

Any ideas?
 

Annna T

Active member
Presets are good, I would like to have more of those. The A7rII has four additional presets that it can save on the memory card, but those are less complete.
Yes two are really not enough !

One to memorize your usual settings and restaure them easily and then only one for specific situations that is really few.

I have to look for storing additional ones on a memory card (I'm still new to the A7r2), that sounds interesting. But what succeed when you format the card ? Are they kept ?

Also as a former Canon shooter I like to use the back AF/AEL button to focus and hold and have only AEL with shutter. But if you want to use the camera apps (the remote or time lapse ones that I use from time to time for instance), or the scene modes (a convenient way to change all settings quickly for people photography) then you have to dig into the menu to reset yourself to AF with shutter. But there is no way to add that option to the Fn menu or to a button. Really annoying : you can't always use your favorite focusing button and you can't find a way to change that quickly.

Having several custom modes (at least 4, but ideally 6) would allow us to create our set of personal scene modes.
 

Viramati

Member
Common problem with electronic shutters and fluorescent lighting. Shoot at less than 1/60th sec and you should avoid it. I have even had it happen with EFCS on the A7s so be careful with that as well.
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Common problem with electronic shutters and fluorescent lighting. Shoot at less than 1/60th sec and you should avoid it. I have even had it happen with EFCS on the A7s so be careful with that as well.
Thanks David. "Less than" means faster or slower? TIA.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

I guess this is pretty much a focal plane shutter issue really. Modern focal plane shutters have fast travel times, making these issues less obvious. The "silent shutter" has a slow travel time, exacerbating any inherent problems.

I don't think there would be a difference between EFCS and normal mechanical first curtain in this case as shutter travel times would be similar.

Best regards
Erik

Slower than 1/60th but it depends on the lighting and I have sometimes found I can go up to a little higher to 1/90th and get away with it. Also if there are a lot fluorescent lights together you will find as they cancel each other out and the banding won't show and this is why in some places you will see 3 tubes mounted together.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp#Flicker_problems
 
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