segedi
Member
The new Pentax looks small and heavy compared to other DSLRs.
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Sorry, but I just don’t get it - a bit of a rant
- Thread starter MikeEvangelist
- Start date
Tim
Active member
Unless its not a fact, any comment on a camera should be proceeded by IMO or "for my use".
Example: people complain about Sony A7 battery life.
"For my use" the A7 never ran out of juice because coming from being film user I have always been a low frame rate user.
For someone else it may be a problem.
Example 2: define a cheap lens. Can't be done.
With anything on the internets - filter ON.
Example: people complain about Sony A7 battery life.
"For my use" the A7 never ran out of juice because coming from being film user I have always been a low frame rate user.
For someone else it may be a problem.
Example 2: define a cheap lens. Can't be done.
With anything on the internets - filter ON.
I love my A7RII but there are a LOT of things that could be improved. Sony product planners / product managers could just look at the competition and copy best practices as a start. I suggest they start with a breakdown of the Ricoh GR UX/UI and pick up some ideas there - just got that camera recently and wow, what a true photographers p&s camera. And look at the touchscreen interface on the GH4. Lots to learn from all the camera companies.
Sadly, there will never be a perfect camera, for me or anyone else.
DPR is painful, traumatizing really. I rarely go to their forums anymore. It is like reading the comments at your local newspaper's website. Cesspool of insanity there.
FM is much, much better. Discourse is generally pretty informed and balanced there.
And this place is great!
Sadly, there will never be a perfect camera, for me or anyone else.
DPR is painful, traumatizing really. I rarely go to their forums anymore. It is like reading the comments at your local newspaper's website. Cesspool of insanity there.
FM is much, much better. Discourse is generally pretty informed and balanced there.
And this place is great!
MikeEvangelist
Member
Exactly my feelings! Especially about GetDPI - civil, informative, fun and extremely useful. Guy, Jack and Bob are to be congratulated for making it so.
We can light a Google camp fire, link virtual hands and sing "Kumbaya, Oh Sony, Kumbaya" into our computer screens ...
Or discuss how to get the most out of the A7 cameras while avoiding the pitfalls, of which there quite a few if you aren't careful.
While the Sony's provide the option to tailor our camera to our specific needs, it also provides a lot of "diversity of use" in one small package. Isn't that a main reason to use them in the first place?
In fact, (not IMO, or whatever caveat should precede an observation), with that versatility comes a heaping helping of complexity.
Complexity can be a two edged sword ... for example:
I customized my A7R-II settings for a number of uses that I encounter in day-to-day shooting ... some for myself, some for pay.
So, the other day I was helping a photographer friend shoot school pics because her regular partner became suddenly ill. (not my bag, but gotta help a friend in need).
A7R-II up high on a Tripod, ZA24-70/2.8 lens using the LA EA-3 adapter (LA EA-4 doesn't allow use of the L bracket); Profoto B1 AIR lighting with 7' Parabolics, camera set to "Setting Effect Off" for use with strobes.
Kids are marched in and placed on bleachers, my friend shoots 3 shots, I shoot 3 back-up tripod shots from a higher vantage point on a step-ladder. The turn-over of kids is well organized and fast.
Boom, Boom, Boom ... three groups done with no problem.
Third Graders get set up, press the shutter ... nothing. No flash either. Immediate flop sweat. I'll spare you the next few steps and accompanying thoughts as I try to figure it out from a dozen or more things it could be ... while kids start squirming and busting ranks like kittens escaping a box.
Cut to the chase. I have a custom setting to activate the wonderful "Silent Shooting" mode for use at weddings, shooting on motion picture sets, and any discreet situation.
I had inadvertently activated it.
So what? How is that an issue?
When you have a transmitter in the hot shoe and Silent Shooting is activated ... the hot shoe doesn't work! Who would have thought it? Makes sense I guess since using flash isn't exactly "discreet":ROTFL:
Also, with "Setting Effect Off" and stopped down, you see the image to be shot but all you get is a black frame. No warning screen like wth some other blocked invalid functions. It seemed like the camera suddenly had a brain aneurysm.
I did figure it out pretty quickly, but not quickly enough as I had to remove the camera from the tripod, and I missed the 3rd grade back-up shots.
Another "Pro" friend had the same thing happen in the middle of a shoot but it wasn't silent shooting in his case because it is turned off in the main menu. He still hasn't figured out why. He reset the camera to factory defaults to get the job done.
BTW, I also discovered that with this ZA lens on the LAEA-3 adapter, the Shoot Mode is disabled. Focus Mode is set on the lens, and when it is set to MF on the lens, the rear AF button doesn't work!!! BTW, Flexible Spot:M focus area is restricted to a smaller area, and Expanded Flexible Spot focus area is invalid with this lens.
Etc., Etc., Etc., the more versatility the more complexity ... which is darned hard to keep track of in the heat of shooting. Hopefully I can keep this pup for more than a Fly's life and learn all of the hidden surprises it has in store for me, until I master it.
- Marc
Or discuss how to get the most out of the A7 cameras while avoiding the pitfalls, of which there quite a few if you aren't careful.
While the Sony's provide the option to tailor our camera to our specific needs, it also provides a lot of "diversity of use" in one small package. Isn't that a main reason to use them in the first place?
In fact, (not IMO, or whatever caveat should precede an observation), with that versatility comes a heaping helping of complexity.
Complexity can be a two edged sword ... for example:
I customized my A7R-II settings for a number of uses that I encounter in day-to-day shooting ... some for myself, some for pay.
So, the other day I was helping a photographer friend shoot school pics because her regular partner became suddenly ill. (not my bag, but gotta help a friend in need).
A7R-II up high on a Tripod, ZA24-70/2.8 lens using the LA EA-3 adapter (LA EA-4 doesn't allow use of the L bracket); Profoto B1 AIR lighting with 7' Parabolics, camera set to "Setting Effect Off" for use with strobes.
Kids are marched in and placed on bleachers, my friend shoots 3 shots, I shoot 3 back-up tripod shots from a higher vantage point on a step-ladder. The turn-over of kids is well organized and fast.
Boom, Boom, Boom ... three groups done with no problem.
Third Graders get set up, press the shutter ... nothing. No flash either. Immediate flop sweat. I'll spare you the next few steps and accompanying thoughts as I try to figure it out from a dozen or more things it could be ... while kids start squirming and busting ranks like kittens escaping a box.
Cut to the chase. I have a custom setting to activate the wonderful "Silent Shooting" mode for use at weddings, shooting on motion picture sets, and any discreet situation.
I had inadvertently activated it.
So what? How is that an issue?
When you have a transmitter in the hot shoe and Silent Shooting is activated ... the hot shoe doesn't work! Who would have thought it? Makes sense I guess since using flash isn't exactly "discreet":ROTFL:
Also, with "Setting Effect Off" and stopped down, you see the image to be shot but all you get is a black frame. No warning screen like wth some other blocked invalid functions. It seemed like the camera suddenly had a brain aneurysm.
I did figure it out pretty quickly, but not quickly enough as I had to remove the camera from the tripod, and I missed the 3rd grade back-up shots.
Another "Pro" friend had the same thing happen in the middle of a shoot but it wasn't silent shooting in his case because it is turned off in the main menu. He still hasn't figured out why. He reset the camera to factory defaults to get the job done.
BTW, I also discovered that with this ZA lens on the LAEA-3 adapter, the Shoot Mode is disabled. Focus Mode is set on the lens, and when it is set to MF on the lens, the rear AF button doesn't work!!! BTW, Flexible Spot:M focus area is restricted to a smaller area, and Expanded Flexible Spot focus area is invalid with this lens.
Etc., Etc., Etc., the more versatility the more complexity ... which is darned hard to keep track of in the heat of shooting. Hopefully I can keep this pup for more than a Fly's life and learn all of the hidden surprises it has in store for me, until I master it.
- Marc
Exactly. Why is the OP so sensitive? Does he think Sony can't improve with some healthy critique?
I shoot my A7 constantly, and have great affection for it. The Sony corporation, on the other hand, could use a few slaps
100/3.5 by unoh7, on Flickr
How many copies of the 35/1.4 have you tried now, Guy? Now on the other hand your 1635 was great. But paying a grand or more, I would prefer the lens to be centered and well assembled, does anyone disagree? Sony/Zeiss QC with lenses is not at the highest standard which Canon and Nikon reach with many of their lenses, including some really cheap ones. Do I need to link to the multi copy lens rental tests? Should everyone just shut up about it?
I treat Leica the same way, as do most of their users. Did you see the furor when Leica hinted they might no longer support the sensor issues on the M9/MM? We raised hell and now that sensor is being replaced with a better one years out of warranty for any owner. Sony owners should demand the same level of fidelity, I think, and maybe Sony would give some love to the firmware of older A7 cameras, and improve the next generation with better batteries and interface.
I see no reason why I need to deny the shortcomings of a camera to enjoy it. My M9 has a ridiculous shutter. I still love it
What I just don't get is the fierce sugar coating of the emperor's attire...or the lack of...in certain respects LOL
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Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
I have been through 4 copies of the 35 1.4. Agree not acceptable at all. But not sure I can say Sony is alone here , been down this road with all the OEM's it's really a industry problem but Sony should actually recall the whole lot of them. Even a copy that is acceptable it's still flawed. Now on the other hand I have done good with everything else except the 24-70 as well was another negative experience. Honestly I expect some of this and reason I'll talk about it but I do not whine over it. The other part of the equation is I'll accept some fault because I pretty much won't buy Nikon or Canon again. Leica for me is over as well. Just not going to pay premium costs on product. But that's me, I just don't have the money to throw around like that. It buys me nothing professionally.
Btw I don't have blinders on either. I know exactly what I have in my bag, I just choose to work through what I need to do in a positive way and find my workarounds and options without getting into these holy wars. I know where some Sony users are coming from here. It's pretty disgusting how some forums act towards Sony and there products.
Btw I don't have blinders on either. I know exactly what I have in my bag, I just choose to work through what I need to do in a positive way and find my workarounds and options without getting into these holy wars. I know where some Sony users are coming from here. It's pretty disgusting how some forums act towards Sony and there products.
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Yeah Guy, wholesale whining about Sony from competitive owners, and genuinely wanting improvement in our tools of choice, are two completely different matters.
I've been a Sony shooter longer than most ... the minute they offered a FF DSLR, I switched over to A900s for a majority of my paid wedding and location portrait work at the time. Trust me, I was an exception in that Canikon dominated field.
I'm still there with the A7R-II. To be perfectly honest, I cannot think of a better value/performance equation despite some of the improvements many of us would like to see. To use the OPs analogy, I think with the A7R-II the glass is 2/3 full:ROTFL:
Now, I'm not quite as brand centric as you may be as I still shoot with a Leica MM and S(006) ... but the truth be told, in my current circumstances I wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't spend what I paid for those tools where I to do it today. Life has a way of rearranging priorities, and clearing one's vision forward. In fact, even the price of the new GM lenses gives me pause.:shocked:
- Marc
I've been a Sony shooter longer than most ... the minute they offered a FF DSLR, I switched over to A900s for a majority of my paid wedding and location portrait work at the time. Trust me, I was an exception in that Canikon dominated field.
I'm still there with the A7R-II. To be perfectly honest, I cannot think of a better value/performance equation despite some of the improvements many of us would like to see. To use the OPs analogy, I think with the A7R-II the glass is 2/3 full:ROTFL:
Now, I'm not quite as brand centric as you may be as I still shoot with a Leica MM and S(006) ... but the truth be told, in my current circumstances I wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't spend what I paid for those tools where I to do it today. Life has a way of rearranging priorities, and clearing one's vision forward. In fact, even the price of the new GM lenses gives me pause.:shocked:
- Marc
I think the problem is that the percentage of "dislikers" and "criticizers" who do post on the net is higher than the percentage of people who use and enjoy a product.
Therefore , when reading the internet, on can get the impression that there are many people out there who do not like a product.
But I am pretty sure that it has nothing to do with the real situation.
We must not believe that the internet mirrors a representative opinion.
If it trusts you: Leica is bashed even more often.
I would say Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica, Pentax,...all offer good products. But there will allways be people who think tradional DSLRs are outdated, who believe Sony is a computer not a camera and Leica is for snobs.
Who cares. What counts if what works well for you.
Therefore , when reading the internet, on can get the impression that there are many people out there who do not like a product.
But I am pretty sure that it has nothing to do with the real situation.
We must not believe that the internet mirrors a representative opinion.
If it trusts you: Leica is bashed even more often.
I would say Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica, Pentax,...all offer good products. But there will allways be people who think tradional DSLRs are outdated, who believe Sony is a computer not a camera and Leica is for snobs.
Who cares. What counts if what works well for you.
iiiNelson
Well-known member
i would tend to agree with EVERYTHING you said with the caveat that Leica and for different reason Sony tends to elicit another level of hate from photographers that are financially and emotionally invested in other systems. This is coming from a former Leica, Panasonic, and Canon shooter that is now a Sony shooter. I will say that Leica and Sont shooters tend to be a bit more passionate in the idiosyncrasies of those particular systems and choose them specifically because they are different than the CaNikon DSLR's. This encourages negative responses as Leica and Sony shooter are akin to "cult members" for daring to be different by other shooters. I used to think it was about the financial proposition that inspired negativity with Leica but MF shooters don't collect the same amount of disdain and they pay much more for their cameras.
It can't JUST be a reliability thing because Nikon has had as horrible of a track record for quality control as Sony (decentered lenses/light leaks) or Leica (exfoliated sensors/ quality control issues with 50 APO/metering issues with SL) has. Still you see general praise and acceptance by satisfied owners of any brand. You also see misleading information by owners and company spokespeople on the record that underplay shortcomings due to brand loyalty - but that's business. It's often those that has never owned, touched, used extensively, or worked with different brands that are the most critical... and that's cool too until misinformation based on uninformed second hand knowledge becomes "fact."
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
What bothers me more than anything and this is recent years is the you tube wanna be gurus that really give out bad info but praise everything in there hands. I can't trust reviews anymore and it's put me in a bad spot because I do reviews but refuse to be called one of them now as its really bothers me today what I see and read. And actually I been mislead on a adapter and had to have a new one FedX overnight to shoot a job. That was way to close for comfort by 3 hours. That's not how I depend on my system. So I'm very leary now on these so called gurus.
seb
Member
Don't put you in the same boat like those gurus, Guy!
We all know, if you're new to something, it's good to have someone that gives you advices. But to get a good answer you have to communicate bidirectional and with several different sources.
the web content is still something new for many and humans have to learn how to use it. I'm not talking about old people or people that have a smartphone since a few months only. it's about people that comes to me with: "hey I had to change the chain on my bike and you know what? There are how-to-videos in the net!!!". youtube, dpreview and many other have very valuable content, but you have to decide by yourself what is good and what is not. and you have to search a lot by your own. with the traditional medias (print, tv, radio) the editorial staff filtered content for you.
If I'm reading a review from you, Guy, I now it's a valuable and objective one. It wouldn't matter if I read it here, on youtube or in the forum of dpreview. On the other hand, I do not disturb me on the 100st thread about battery life or the 1000st battle of brands. It's easy to skip them. And as I inform me about gear over several channels, I can recognize a serious one.
MikeEvangelist
Member
Glad I hit some nerves with my little post. It probably came off more serious than I intended; but that's the way the internet works sometimes. As always, thoughtful discussions here in our little haven of sanity.
My main point was that we live in a world of magical devices. Digital cameras are a prime example, with the Sony currently at the top, imho. Its (many) foibles don't diminish that, in my view. But some people seem to only see the deficiencies.
PS
And the sad state of things at some of the photo forums out there. I really do marvel at it.
My main point was that we live in a world of magical devices. Digital cameras are a prime example, with the Sony currently at the top, imho. Its (many) foibles don't diminish that, in my view. But some people seem to only see the deficiencies.
PS
And the sad state of things at some of the photo forums out there. I really do marvel at it.
The internet does seem to have brought out the negative view with more intensity.
As a young photographer, when getting together with others, we'd talk about our favorite this or that and why. It always came down to how the lens, camera, film or whatever helped us make better images.
The same was true for conversations about just about anything.
Now with the internet, and subject specific fora, it seems there is a growing cadre of participants whose only contribution is complaining about deficiencies. As far as I can tell, everything can be improved. I've never met an engineer who has said "that's it, I'll never be able to make it better."
They know, product managers know, and we know, there is always room for improvement.
What that means, to me, is that as good as the camera and lenses I have from Sony are today, helping me make the images I want, I can look forward to more capabilities in the future. Capabilities that will help me make better images, presuming I am willing to keep challenging myself as well as a photographer.
As for reviews; what I've noticed is that the internet has deluded the quality by imposing quantity. Anyone with a computer, a web browser and the time can say whatever they want, without any fact checking, or other editorial proofing. I find it sometimes entertaining to look at some of the Youtube videos or read some of the reviews just for the laughs.
For real, and useful information, I have a few select sites, including GetDPI. The rest is worthless, but sometimes entertaining.
Mike, even though you started this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I think its started a useful conversation.
And, to date, no trolls. :grin:
As a young photographer, when getting together with others, we'd talk about our favorite this or that and why. It always came down to how the lens, camera, film or whatever helped us make better images.
The same was true for conversations about just about anything.
Now with the internet, and subject specific fora, it seems there is a growing cadre of participants whose only contribution is complaining about deficiencies. As far as I can tell, everything can be improved. I've never met an engineer who has said "that's it, I'll never be able to make it better."
They know, product managers know, and we know, there is always room for improvement.
What that means, to me, is that as good as the camera and lenses I have from Sony are today, helping me make the images I want, I can look forward to more capabilities in the future. Capabilities that will help me make better images, presuming I am willing to keep challenging myself as well as a photographer.
As for reviews; what I've noticed is that the internet has deluded the quality by imposing quantity. Anyone with a computer, a web browser and the time can say whatever they want, without any fact checking, or other editorial proofing. I find it sometimes entertaining to look at some of the Youtube videos or read some of the reviews just for the laughs.
For real, and useful information, I have a few select sites, including GetDPI. The rest is worthless, but sometimes entertaining.
Mike, even though you started this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I think its started a useful conversation.
And, to date, no trolls. :grin:
My feeling is that there is a lot of - sorry- rubbish pseudo information on the internet. And its not allways easy to sort out which information is good and which information is bad.
Then there are those people who have the hobby to find the faults of products they dont own, many of them seem to know the products better than people who own and use the products.
Its harder and harder to find places in the internet where the productive and usefull threads keep coming. For me getdpi or reidreviews are such places.
But overall I feel I enjoy chatting in photography forums less and less. The better the products get the more bashing is going on.
I dont care if people write bul...t , but isnt it sad if other people who seek for good information read such faulty negative information and get a wrong picture?
Then there are those people who have the hobby to find the faults of products they dont own, many of them seem to know the products better than people who own and use the products.
Its harder and harder to find places in the internet where the productive and usefull threads keep coming. For me getdpi or reidreviews are such places.
But overall I feel I enjoy chatting in photography forums less and less. The better the products get the more bashing is going on.
I dont care if people write bul...t , but isnt it sad if other people who seek for good information read such faulty negative information and get a wrong picture?