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Thread: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    I had a chance to play with the Priolite last night to make a few test shots of one of our flowering plants. I gotta say that I'm impressed with the light quality and the ease of use so far. I'm able to sync at any shutter speed up to 1/8000 of a second (the maximum speed for the A7 series) at any power level and that's really a huge deal to me.

    It literally is plug and play. There aren't the extremely funky menus of the PCB Cyber Commander. The mount is very secure as it uses Bowens, Hensel, Priolite, or Profoto modifiers with adapters. According to Priolite, it is recommended that EFCS is off when syncing above x-sync speed for consistency but I accidentally took a shot at 1/4000 of a second and it still came out well. I'll post some pics later. All shots were taken with the Mola Demi w/ sock and the Mola Rayo.

    I'll post out a few SOOC shots when able.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I had a chance to play with the Priolite last night to make a few test shots of one of our flowering plants. I gotta say that I'm impressed with the light quality and the ease of use so far. I'm able to sync at any shutter speed up to 1/8000 of a second (the maximum speed for the A7 series) at any power level and that's really a huge deal to me.

    It literally is plug and play. There aren't the extremely funky menus of the PCB Cyber Commander. The mount is very secure as it uses Bowens, Hensel, Priolite, or Profoto modifiers with adapters. According to Priolite, it is recommended that EFCS is off when syncing above x-sync speed for consistency but I accidentally took a shot at 1/4000 of a second and it still came out well. I'll post some pics later. All shots were taken with the Mola Demi w/ sock and the Mola Rayo.

    I'll post out a few SOOC shots when able.
    Do show some results I'm dying to see

    I'm moving all Profoto gear to my Florida studio and need some decent lighting for the few months I'm in Michigan which doesn't have to be Profoto.

    What do you mean that you could high-speed-sync at any power level? I understand that a more powerful strobe will naturally put out more light on HSS than a speed-light what I do not know is how much light the strobe puts out when set to HSS? Has anyone used a flash meter to measure?

    Thanks,

    - Marc

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Do show some results … I'm dying to see

    I'm moving all Profoto gear to my Florida studio and need some decent lighting for the few months I'm in Michigan … which doesn't have to be Profoto.

    What do you mean that you could high-speed-sync at any power level? I understand that a more powerful strobe will naturally put out more light on HSS than a speed-light … what I do not know is how much light the strobe puts out when set to HSS? Has anyone used a flash meter to measure?

    Thanks,

    - Marc
    Above flash sync the Priolite HotSync strobes act as a constant light source so stopping ability is determined by shutter speed, as it is with other ambient light sources. This is due to a relatively slow (long) single flash duration (v. the HSS implemented with many IGBT type strobes) of around 1/200th of a second.

    The reason you can sync at any power and speed is due to the controller altering the timing of when the flash fires with the camera when the shutter is pressed. One would not be limited by strobe syncing speed as the timing adjustments with various power levels is done automatically by the controller. I'm sure an engineer could probably explain it even further than I just did.

    ***I don't have a light meter to do an accurate measure of Priolite claims yet (my PCB Cyber Commander had a light meter on the back of it). It was accurate enough for what I needed but I will probably invest in a Sekonic after I buy these lights.***

    Marc since you use medium format primarily you would probably be better served by the non-HotSync lights (if you choose that route) as they are rated to sync at up to 1/2500 of a second at 1000ws for that version. They're a bit less expensive as well when compared to the HotSync versions.

    This was a SOOC test shot with the A7RII + 35/1.4 Distagon @ ISO100 | f/7.1 | 1/8000 sec | 500w/s (Full Power)... I will ask my wife to be my test model for some other demo shots since it's raining too much to go outdoors today to test this flash's abilities in the sun.

    -Priolite MBX500HS Test Shots by Tre Nelson, on Flickr
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 30th May 2016 at 06:22.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Thanks so much for the Priolite tests. I haven't received mine yet.

    Two questions:
    1) Does the remote require the Sony multi-interface shoe adapter on the camera to work?: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...e_adapter.html

    2) Are your 1/8000th test shots done with EFCS on or off? Did you see any problems with keeping EFCS turned on at any time?

    Thanks man!
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Thanks for the answer Hired Arm.

    Actually, I'm primarily interested in lighting for the Sony A7R-II. I have the lighting down pat for my MF CS system which already syncs at 1/1000 using Profoto AIR at any power setting.

    My Sony kit tends to be the more transportable system when traveling back and forth, so Remote TTL and HSS is of great interest because the normal sync on the A7R-II is 1/160 with strobes. Currently I only have a couple of Nissin speed-lights with their TTL remote transmitter which are okay IF you just need fill or any lower power requirement.

    Unfortunately, there isn't TTL or HSS for Sony with the Profoto, just Canon and Nikon at least not yet.

    So, if I understand you correctly, Hot-Sync allows regular full power output like 500W/s at any shutter speed faster than 1/200 it isn't a HSS pulsed output which limits the actual amount of light on the subject, right? (which is why I wondered what the actual meter reading would be between 500 W/s @ normal sync (1/160) and Hot-Sync.

    A real informative test of Hot-Sync would be a very bright background behind a back-lit shaded subject using a higher shutter-speed to control that background

    Or a beauty dish shot with the Batis 85/2 @ f/2, again using what ever shutter-speed was needed to control the ambient.

    Or am I off base and not getting it right?

    Thanks,

    - Marc

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by rjp85 View Post
    Thanks so much for the Priolite tests. I haven't received mine yet.

    Two questions:
    1) Does the remote require the Sony multi-interface shoe adapter on the camera to work?: Sony Multi-Interface Shoe Adapter ADPMAA B&H Photo Video

    2) Are your 1/8000th test shots done with EFCS on or off? Did you see any problems with keeping EFCS turned on at any time?

    Thanks man!
    1) AFAIK, yes it does although it may work with the hotshoe adapter Sony sells. What camera are you shooting with these days? I still have my A7mkI and my modified A7RmkI to test on if it's needed for anyone that is still shooting those bodies. I only have the demo kit until Wednesday then it has to go back to Priolite. I'm buying my lights tomorrow.

    2) This shot was done with EFCS off. It is recommended by Priolite to turn EFCS off for shutter speeds above 1/1000 of a second FOR CONSISTENCY as you choose faster shutter speeds with the caveat that EFCS will actually help freeze action a bit better by up to a stop. For instance you may be able to get away with a 1/2000th EFCS shutter speed that would normally require 1/4000th. This recommendation is based on how the sensor readout works for EFCS.

    I did take this shot below at 1/4000th of a second (as a test... but mostly by accident) without turning EFCS. Metadata can be seen by clicking the link but the important part is this: SOOC | A7RII | ISO 100 | SZ 55/1.8 FE @ f/1.8 | 1/4000th of a second shutter.

    The highlights are slightly blown out on the white parts of the hydrangea flowers but it may be possible to recover in PP if necessary.

    PrioliteTests 2 by Tre Nelson, on Flickr
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 30th May 2016 at 04:43.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Thanks for the answer Hired Arm.

    Actually, I'm primarily interested in lighting for the Sony A7R-II. I have the lighting down pat for my MF CS system which already syncs at 1/1000 using Profoto AIR at any power setting.

    My Sony kit tends to be the more transportable system when traveling back and forth, so Remote TTL and HSS is of great interest because the normal sync on the A7R-II is 1/160 with strobes. Currently I only have a couple of Nissin speed-lights with their TTL remote transmitter which are okay IF you just need fill or any lower power requirement.

    Unfortunately, there isn't TTL or HSS for Sony with the Profoto, just Canon and Nikon … at least not yet.

    So, if I understand you correctly, Hot-Sync allows regular full power output like 500W/s at any shutter speed faster than 1/200 … it isn't a HSS pulsed output which limits the actual amount of light on the subject, right? (which is why I wondered what the actual meter reading would be between 500 W/s @ normal sync (1/160) and Hot-Sync.

    A real informative test of Hot-Sync would be a very bright background behind a back-lit shaded subject using a higher shutter-speed to control that background

    Or a beauty dish shot with the Batis 85/2 @ f/2, again using what ever shutter-speed was needed to control the ambient.

    Or am I off base and not getting it right?

    Thanks,

    - Marc
    Marc that is 100% correct and not off base at all.

    The Priolite system does not shoot pulsed light. It's just one long duration flash (it lasts 1/200th sec) that is automatically timed for by the HotSync controller for whatever shutter speed selected by the photographer on the camera. You don't have to select any special flash modes... I left mine on fill flash, plugged in the controller, locked it down, and started to shoot.

    The Priolite HS system does not have TTL capability currently and I'm not sure if that is something can be added through firmware updates or not. It's not a huge deal to me that the Priolite's are missing TTL but I understand how or that it may be a deal breaker for some photographers.

    I am planning to do exactly those tests today (and planned to do them for this past weekend because the ability to go cord free is half the fun) except I don't know exactly how bright I can get the background with all the rain that we are experiencing in NC over the weekend (and all throughout this coming week). I've made my decision to purchase a set already so worst case I can do those same tests when they come in in case the one that happens today isn't helpful enough with our ambient conditions.

    ***FWIW the first flower shot above was taken with the Mola Demi with the sock on. The accidental flower shot (with the 55 FE) was taken with the Mola Rayo that I just got last week. I believe that the Rayo throws out a significant amount of additional/focused light as the light wasn't at full power (if I remember correctly it was about 3 stops from max) for that picture while the Demi show was at full power.***

    You can also try the lights for yourself using this link. The cost is $200 (insured, shipped, and return shipping included) and they put a $500 hold on your card until the lights are returned. The $200 can be applied to the cost of a lighting kit if you decide to buy after your testing is done.

    TRY BEFORE YOU BUY
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    1) AFAIK, yes it does although it may work with the hotshoe adapter Sony sells. What camera are you shooting with these days? I still have my A7mkI and my modified A7RmkI to test on if it's needed for anyone that is still shooting those bodies. I only have the demo kit until Wednesday then it has to go back to Priolite. I'm buying my lights tomorrow.
    I have the A7R2. When I read this page: Introducing Priolite SONY HSS HotSync up to 1/8000th shutter speed at the bottom it says "Camera must use SONY multifunction hotshoe."

    So I took that to mean that you need this adapter: Sony Multi-Interface Shoe Adapter ADPMAA B&H Photo Video although I might be misunderstanding what they meant (I currently have the adapter installed in my hot shoe anyway).

    Are you using that adapter, or did you just slide the remote right into the camera's hot shoe and it worked?

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by rjp85 View Post
    I have the A7R2. When I read this page: http://priolite.us/sony_hss at the bottom it says "Camera must use SONY multifunction hotshoe."

    So I took that to mean that you need this adapter: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...e_adapter.html although I might be misunderstanding what they meant.

    Are you using that adapter, or did you just slide the remote right into the camera's hot shoe and it worked?
    The RC-HS slides directly into the hotshoe. You can lock it down afterwards. They probably mean the MIS (multi-interface hotshoe) when they called it the multifunction shoe. I think every Sony system camera after the NEX-6 has the MIS hotshoe I was just unsure of the camera you used. You'll have no issues and don't need an adapter.

    Priolite RC-HS Controller for Sony by Tre Nelson, on Flickr
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Awesome! Yeah I was looking into it, and realized I probably bought that adapter for nothing!

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Marc that is 100% correct and not off base at all.

    The Priolite system does not shoot pulsed light. It's just one long duration flash (it lasts 1/200th sec) that is automatically timed for by the HotSync controller for whatever shutter speed selected by the photographer on the camera. You don't have to select any special flash modes... I left mine on fill flash, plugged in the controller, locked it down, and started to shoot.

    The Priolite HS system does not have TTL capability currently and I'm not sure if that is something can be added through firmware updates or not. ...
    Its my understanding that TTL requires IGBT to work since its based on reading the light striking the subject and turning it off when the proper exposure is reached. That requires an on/off power feed to the tube.

    The long burn approach Priolite has engineered has benefits but probably at the expense of TTL.

    It sounds, for the description like an engineered solution to the PW HyperSync hack. Well thought out and implemented. Will be interesting to see if there is noticeable gradation on a smooth white background. Its something everyone talks about but that I've found has little real impact in real life except in a studio situation, which usually doesn't required HSS anyway.

    I love my AD600 and TTL, but the Priolite sounds like a great solution as well.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    Its my understanding that TTL requires IGBT to work since its based on reading the light striking the subject and turning it off when the proper exposure is reached. That requires an on/off power feed to the tube.

    The long burn approach Priolite has engineered has benefits but probably at the expense of TTL.

    It sounds, for the description like an engineered solution to the PW HyperSync hack. Well thought out and implemented. Will be interesting to see if there is noticeable gradation on a smooth white background. Its something everyone talks about but that I've found has little real impact in real life except in a studio situation, which usually doesn't required HSS anyway.

    I love my AD600 and TTL, but the Priolite sounds like a great solution as well.
    I agree and have appreciated all of your testing with the Godox lights they seem to be another great option. It's all just a different solution to a similar problem. I agree that it's similar in many ways to how PocketWizards, Elinchrom HS, Phottix ODS, etc. work in principle but I'm unsure if they have the same protocols to accomplish this. I do like how everything is extremely seamless and straightforward. There's no messing around in menus or special settings required... Just plug the RC-HS in and start shooting. I haven't worked with multiple lights yet but there's a Teams (Priolite's name for lighting groups) section of the controller and the light ID section of the remote allows up to 9 lights per team.

    I'm uneducated on TTL technology specifics but they do offer non-HotSync lights that have short flash durations. These are marketed more towards MF leaf shutter systems, although they can be used with any camera up to x-sync.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    I had a session yesterday with a couple and relied on the 600TTL to help with main subject lighting with bright sun.
    That got me to thinking about how to combine camera Flash Exposure Compensation with light Flash Exposure Compensation.

    So, today I took Manny outside and did a series of shots to illustrate the effect.

    HERE is a page I added to my site detailing how it works.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Well... I just bought 2-MBX1000HS units, a Sony RC-HS plus a couple wide umbrella reflectors, and 2 Profoto adapters. Should be here in a couple of weeks from Germany.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Well... I just bought 2-MBX1000HS units, a Sony RC-HS plus a couple wide umbrella reflectors, and 2 Profoto adapters. Should be here in a couple of weeks from Germany.
    Now the fun begins.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    Now the fun begins.
    Yeah. Time to sell the PCB Einstein.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Yeah. Time to sell the PCB Einstein.
    I had Einsteins with VML battery packs. They were great lights. When PW introduced the ControlTL module for them I did some beta testing.
    I sent several emails to PCB and PW suggesting that they implement HSS since the IGBT wouldn't permit Hypersonic. PCB went to some length in an email debunking my request saying it was too difficult to get HSS to work reliably in a light like the Einstein.

    We've come a long way baby.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    I had Einsteins with VML battery packs. They were great lights. When PW introduced the ControlTL module for them I did some beta testing.
    I sent several emails to PCB and PW suggesting that they implement HSS since the IGBT wouldn't permit Hypersonic. PCB went to some length in an email debunking my request saying it was too difficult to get HSS to work reliably in a light like the Einstein.

    We've come a long way baby.
    Yeah they are a great light when it comes to light quality, color consistency, price, value, etc. I don't know the direction the company is going since PCB passed last year though. You really don't hear much out of them these days and I hope that their innovation wasn't lost with him.

    I don't doubt HSS was a difficult job for the engineering team within the company to reverse engineer but it doesn't mean it can't be done. I imagine that the issue was to implement HSS and maintain their color consistency. Still, even without HSS, it's a great entry level product that punches well above it's weight class when it comes to output results.

    The PCB Einstein is definitely one of the best products at ~$500 new on the market (for the strobe alone) to get people into studio flash photography. Approximately $800 gets you shooting a color consistent 640ws light that goes down all the way to 2.5ws of power remotely on a stable air-cushioned light stand. IMO the biggest limitation to PCB stuff is the Balcar mount when using very large modifiers... If they were fitted with Bowens or Profoto mounts then maybe I would've invested more heavily into the system.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Well... I just bought 2-MBX1000HS units, a Sony RC-HS plus a couple wide umbrella reflectors, and 2 Profoto adapters. Should be here in a couple of weeks from Germany.
    Congrats. Are you concerned that the 1000 units don't have LED modeling lights (from what I can see in the pictures)? One of the features I like about the 500 units are the decently bright, but low-power daylight-balanced LED modeling lights.

    Good news for me, my Priolite stuff is coming on Saturday via FedEx. It was starting to feel like they forgot about my order, lol.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by rjp85 View Post
    Congrats. Are you concerned that the 1000 units don't have LED modeling lights (from what I can see in the pictures)? One of the features I like about the 500 units are the decently bright, but low-power daylight-balanced LED modeling lights.

    Good news for me, my Priolite stuff is coming on Saturday via FedEx. It was starting to feel like they forgot about my order, lol.
    Only the M-Pack1000/HS has an LED modeling lamp on the head. The 1000w has a 100w halogen and the 500w units sport a 80w halogen. Only the 1000w units sport a proportional model lamp as well but it's or a huge deal for me. I only use it to position the light then I turn it back off.

    Congrats on your delivery. You're going to like them I believe.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    The Priolite test kit went back yesterday morning. Overall it was a great experience. I have more test photos that I can post this weekend and a promotional shoot for a client that I really can't post images from for contractual reasons.

    Some of my ongoing thoughts and notes from using the Priolite kit:

    • I am very impressed with the light quality and color consistency produced.
    • The controller is larger than many other controllers but it is rather light in weight.
    • I rarely experienced any misfires from the controller and when I did it seemingly was due to either the light not being fully charged or a lost tethered connection between the camera and C1Pro9. In all cases the problem was remedied.
    • The flash sync works seamlessly at all power levels and shutter speeds that I tried (from min to max power and all the way down to 1/8000th sec.)


    Additional thoughts on my modifier collection:

    • Mola Softlights (I have the Soft Silver Demi and the Rayo) are expensive but worth it IMO. The light really is beautiful from them.
    • The Mola Rayo is very unique in being a "long throw" beauty dish that give very directional hard or soft light depending on the distance to the subject. I don't have a light meter to measure the exact amount, but I would say using a Mola Rayo adds about 1 extra stop of light on your subject (much like a Profoto Magnum does.) This will give the 500w light around 1000w of effective luminance.
    • The SMDV Speedbox A-110 gives very beautiful light output like many other large source softboxes. IMO it'll be great for full body or small group shots. I'll echo and co-sign Ken Doo's opinion's on his review here as it's more in-depth than I want to be here.


    Again I'll post a few more samples this weekend when I can.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    A note for those with Godox Sony triggers and speedlites.
    There is new firmware.

    GODOX PHOTO EQUIPMENT CO.,LTD Download

    Updated Contents

    1. Add close-range (within 30cm) triggering: press the TEST button, powering the transmitter on and holding down until the STATUS indicator lamp blinks for two times. The wireless control range is from 0 to 30 meters now.

    2. Optimize the agreement with SONY camera hot shoe.
    David

    dmwfotos | davidmward.photography
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Okay as promised here are a few shots of myself (by no means a model) taken in front of a window for a partially backlit subject (mid-day for the most sun we were able to get on Monday at about 75-80% sun coverage for about an hour or so). I was not at maximum power or the fastest shutter speed (I varied the power levels between 2-4 stops from maximum level so ~35-125w of power of this light because I was indoors) at the same time on any of the shots so it would be possible to get the background even darker. A Mola Demi Soft Silver modifier was used on all but the B&W shot (which you can see the light pattern partially reflected in the picture on the wall) which I used a SMDV Speedbox A-110 for.

    These are SOOC (except the B&W conversion on the one shot for effect.)

    A7RII | 85 Batis | f/2 | 1/2000th |ISO 100
    SelfieShots by Tre Nelson, on Flickr

    A7RII | 85 Batis | f/2.2 | 1/8000th |ISO 100
    SelfieShots 3 by Tre Nelson, on Flickr

    A7RII | 85 Batis | f/1.8 | 1/8000th |ISO 100
    SelfieShots 2 by Tre Nelson, on Flickr

    A7RII | 85 Batis | f/2 | 1/4000th |ISO 100
    SelfieShots 1 by Tre Nelson, on Flickr
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Additional Priolite Tests (and frankly more thorough that my short term testing) featuring the 1000w units using Pentax 645Z and Canon 1Dx.

    http://www.markkitaoka.com/latest-ne...initial-tests/

    http://www.markkitaoka.com/latest-ne...-18-reflector/

    And a blog post on modifying PCB modifiers (which are generally good modifiers that are inexpensive) to Bowens mount.

    http://www.markkitaoka.com/latest-ne...wens-s-mounts/
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    HERE is a page I added describing a test I did at a Garfield Park Conservatory wedding reception. The AD600 lights delivered as expected.

    HERE is a comparison of power output for the three levels of Godox lights I have.
    Last edited by dmward; 7th June 2016 at 11:30.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    I'm still exploring possibilities of using what I already have rather than yet another lighting system.

    I've discovered some interesting stuff in the process.

    The biggest hurdle I've had to deal with when exploring options is the lack of a PC port on the Sony A7 cameras. This stops me from placing a Sony capable TTL speed-light the hot shoe for TTL fill, and a Profoto (or any other) radio transmitter hard-wired to a PC port for key (adjustable from the camera via the AIR controller) like I've been able to do with all other cameras I use with lighting.

    I have a job coming up where I'l need both. Since no one else will be shooting, I decided to try using the optical slave on the strobes triggered by the speed-light.

    I'm using a pair of Nissan Di700A speed-lights fired by the Nissan Air-1 Transmitter. Transmitter in the hot-shoe, one speed-light on a Custom Brackets CB Folding bracket (highly recommended for these Sony A7 cameras), one speed-light with modifier on a stand as accent with main key lighting coming from a Profoto B1, (and possibly a Hensel Expert 500 mono-light with AIR where needed).

    I figured I'd have to set the Nissan system to manual because of the pre-flash from the Sony system would prematurely trigger the strobes.

    Apparently not with the B1. As an experiment, I set the Nissan kit to Wireless TTL with the Profoto B1 set to optical trigger. Here's where it got weird the Sony TTL does the double "pre-flash/real-flash" and so did the Profoto!

    The net effect is that The Nissan TTL reads the effect of the Profoto strobe's 1st-flash, and its own light and provides proper TTL fill.

    The main surprise is that the Profoto recycle time appears unaffected. It is very fast even at higher levels despite the double flash. I'm sure it is using more battery energy but that is less of an issue since I have plenty of batteries.

    I guess the optical slave just does it when commanded both times and the B1 is fast enough to keep up.

    - Marc

    Oh, BTW is there a way to use TTL without the pre-flash on these Sony's? I couldn't find anything in the Menu but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I'm still exploring possibilities of using what I already have rather than yet another lighting system.

    I've discovered some interesting stuff in the process.

    The biggest hurdle I've had to deal with when exploring options is the lack of a PC port on the Sony A7 cameras. This stops me from placing a Sony capable TTL speed-light the hot shoe for TTL fill, and a Profoto (or any other) radio transmitter hard-wired to a PC port for key (adjustable from the camera via the AIR controller) like I've been able to do with all other cameras I use with lighting.

    I have a job coming up where I'l need both. Since no one else will be shooting, I decided to try using the optical slave on the strobes triggered by the speed-light.

    I'm using a pair of Nissan Di700A speed-lights fired by the Nissan Air-1 Transmitter. Transmitter in the hot-shoe, one speed-light on a Custom Brackets CB Folding bracket (highly recommended for these Sony A7 cameras), one speed-light with modifier on a stand as accent with main key lighting coming from a Profoto B1, (and possibly a Hensel Expert 500 mono-light with AIR where needed).

    I figured I'd have to set the Nissan system to manual because of the pre-flash from the Sony system would prematurely trigger the strobes.

    Apparently not with the B1. As an experiment, I set the Nissan kit to Wireless TTL with the Profoto B1 set to optical trigger. Here's where it got weird the Sony TTL does the double "pre-flash/real-flash" and so did the Profoto!

    The net effect is that The Nissan TTL reads the effect of the Profoto strobe's 1st-flash, and its own light and provides proper TTL fill.

    The main surprise is that the Profoto recycle time appears unaffected. It is very fast even at higher levels despite the double flash. I'm sure it is using more battery energy but that is less of an issue since I have plenty of batteries.

    I guess the optical slave just does it when commanded both times and the B1 is fast enough to keep up.

    - Marc

    Oh, BTW is there a way to use TTL without the pre-flash on these Sony's? I couldn't find anything in the Menu but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

    That sounds like an amazing potential solution for you.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Oh, BTW is there a way to use TTL without the pre-flash on these Sony's? I couldn't find anything in the Menu but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

    Would be pretty hard to eliminate the pre-flash with TTL since that's the flash that the camera meter reads to determine the proper output for the main flash.

    Without the pre-flash there is no TTL meter reading for the flash.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    That sounds like an amazing potential solution for you.
    Thanks, it is only a partial "studio" solution that works using the strobe's optical trigger but not usable in situations where other people are using flash (like a wedding, public location, or indoor event).

    My lighting system is all Profoto with AIR, and some Hensel lighting (Hensel offers lighting featuring built-In Profoto AIR receivers), with an array of preferred mods for those mounts. 80% of commercial work is done with the MF camera which does have a PC port and full HSS to 1/1000 when using the AIR system and dedicated speed-lights with HSS. I've yet to face a situation that I can't solve with what I have for MF.

    However, I'd dearly like to use the little Sony for many mobile and location applications because of the system size. I really like what you guys have been showing with these new lighting solutions, but prefer to try and figure out ways to work with what I already have which in the end may not work, forcing me to secure some of the stuff you folks are demonstrating

    Who would've thought a missing PC port would be so crippling?

    - Marc
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    Would be pretty hard to eliminate the pre-flash with TTL since that's the flash that the camera meter reads to determine the proper output for the main flash.

    Without the pre-flash there is no TTL meter reading for the flash.
    Yes, thanks, I understand the pre-flash workings as it relates to TTL.

    My issue is the gap between pre-flash and actual on the A7R-II which is counter to decisive moment action work, while promoting closed eyes with portraits or candid portraits. For example, the Sony A900 exhibited almost no perceptible gap As demo'ed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHrBcT51oE8

    I may be suffering from selective and/or faulty memory, but I do recall being able to set other flashes to "one pop" TTL. Other than the A900, I've always hated Sony wireless TTL pre-flash because it too often causes people to blink just when the real shot takes place. However, the solution was easy with the A900 and A99 because they both had PC ports to trigger studio type strobes. TTL speed-light in the hot shoe worked on both those cameras, so I assume it wasn't operating in a Pre-flash mode because the strobes always sync'ed perfectly (there is no setting on studio strobes to ignore pre-flash).

    Kind of a mystery to me.

    - Marc

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Thanks, it is only a partial "studio" solution that works using the strobe's optical trigger … but not usable in situations where other people are using flash (like a wedding, public location, or indoor event).

    My lighting system is all Profoto with AIR, and some Hensel lighting (Hensel offers lighting featuring built-In Profoto AIR receivers), with an array of preferred mods for those mounts. 80% of commercial work is done with the MF camera which does have a PC port and full HSS to 1/1000 when using the AIR system … and dedicated speed-lights with HSS. I've yet to face a situation that I can't solve with what I have for MF.

    However, I'd dearly like to use the little Sony for many mobile and location applications because of the system size. I really like what you guys have been showing with these new lighting solutions, but prefer to try and figure out ways to work with what I already have … which in the end may not work, forcing me to secure some of the stuff you folks are demonstrating

    Who would've thought a missing PC port would be so crippling?

    - Marc
    Yeah Sony always adds quirks in their products. Sort of how they always promoted Memory Stick when the rest of the industry was comfortable with CF/SD cards. I guess I get it somewhat in a business sense but there are benefits to standards like USB support and PC flash.

    I hope to have my two 1000w Priolites by next weekend. They just arrived stateside Friday afternoon. They'll be function tested on Monday and shipped out no later than Tuesday if all checks out 100% after the flight from Germany and the dance with customs.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, thanks, I understand the pre-flash workings as it relates to TTL.

    My issue is the gap between pre-flash and actual on the A7R-II which is counter to decisive moment action work, while promoting closed eyes with portraits or candid portraits. For example, the Sony A900 exhibited almost no perceptible gap As demo'ed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHrBcT51oE8

    I may be suffering from selective and/or faulty memory, but I do recall being able to set other flashes to "one pop" TTL. Other than the A900, I've always hated Sony wireless TTL pre-flash because it too often causes people to blink just when the real shot takes place. However, the solution was easy with the A900 and A99 because they both had PC ports to trigger studio type strobes. TTL speed-light in the hot shoe worked on both those cameras, so I assume it wasn't operating in a Pre-flash mode because the strobes always sync'ed perfectly (there is no setting on studio strobes to ignore pre-flash).

    Kind of a mystery to me.

    - Marc
    Marc,
    I used monolights connected to PC port and ETTL speedlites on Canon cameras for years. That's always how it worked. the pre-flash is apparently initiated by a control pin signal, the camera reads the low power flash, determines what is need for exposure, sends a signal to the flash to set power and then sends the FP- or X- sync signal to the flash and the X-sync signal to the PC connection which fires the monolights.

    That was, is. One of my associates was using a moonlight along with TTL speedlite last night. trigger for monolight plugged into PC port on 5DIII and 600EX-RT on top.

    I was using 4 Godox AD600BTTL monolights in TTL with an X1Ts on top of an A7RII.

    I do agree that the pre-flash is slow and not conducive to decisive moment shooting. :-)

    Just as its possible to see the pre-flash with a DSLR before the mirror goes up, its possible to see the pre flash in the EVF.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    Marc,
    I used monolights connected to PC port and ETTL speedlites on Canon cameras for years. That's always how it worked. the pre-flash is apparently initiated by a control pin signal, the camera reads the low power flash, determines what is need for exposure, sends a signal to the flash to set power and then sends the FP- or X- sync signal to the flash and the X-sync signal to the PC connection which fires the monolights.

    That was, is. One of my associates was using a moonlight along with TTL speedlite last night. trigger for monolight plugged into PC port on 5DIII and 600EX-RT on top.

    I was using 4 Godox AD600BTTL monolights in TTL with an X1Ts on top of an A7RII.

    I do agree that the pre-flash is slow and not conducive to decisive moment shooting. :-)

    Just as its possible to see the pre-flash with a DSLR before the mirror goes up, its possible to see the pre flash in the EVF.
    Got it, Thanks!

    Using your sequence above what is still a mystery is how when using a strobe triggered by a PC outlet, that the TTL on-camera flash is correct without reading the strobe's light via the pre-flash? I've used this combination with Canon, Leica, Nikon and Sony for many mobile situations including weddings, events, environmental portraits as well as a number of commercial location assignments in good light, back light, and low light and it always works. This would suggest that the speed-light is somehow reading the strobe light and adjusts for it which is impossible. Perhaps it has to do with the difference in power output between a strobe and speed-light where the speed-light is almost always at maximum output even for fill because the strobe is so much more powerful? Meh, my brain is starting to smolder trying to figure this stuff out

    If it works, just use it.

    Also, using the manually set Profoto on optical and the Air-1 on TTL Wireless to trigger the Nissin speed-light, I also tried setting the A7R-II on FEL to take the pre-flash then the actual shot when ever desired, and the image was over-exposed. Non FEL is where the Profoto fires both the pre-flash and main flash in quick sequence, and that is properly exposed.

    Oh well, as long as it can be made to work without a PC outlet. Too many brain cells trying to get TTL when, for my applications, it is just as easy to set the lighting manually.

    Hope Sony eventually adds a PC port to the A7 series or at least to the battery grip like Leica did for the M240 multi-function battery grip.

    - Marc

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Got it, Thanks!

    Using your sequence above what is still a mystery is how when using a strobe triggered by a PC outlet, that the TTL on-camera flash is correct without reading the strobe's light via the pre-flash? I've used this combination with Canon, Leica, Nikon and Sony for many mobile situations including weddings, events, environmental portraits as well as a number of commercial location assignments in good light, back light, and low light and it always works. This would suggest that the speed-light is somehow reading the strobe light and adjusts for it which is impossible. Perhaps it has to do with the difference in power output between a strobe and speed-light where the speed-light is almost always at maximum output even for fill because the strobe is so much more powerful? Meh, my brain is starting to smolder trying to figure this stuff out

    If it works, just use it.
    Marc. What I found when using a combination of ambient, TTL and manual monolight to light a scene was that I had to keep three exposure readings balanced. The ambient meter reading in the camera, the TTL meter reading by the camera of the speedlite and the manual exposure adjustment of the monolights. My default with Canon kit was to have the camera exposure set manually to about -1EV, keeping the F stop open to minimize ISO. I kept the shutter speed to about the old 1/focal length the help with camera shake and subject movement. Then I'd do some test shots with the monolights to get the power setting with that ISO and F stop combination. I generally kept the ETTL speedlite to 0 or minus 1/3 FEC. I always had the speedlite aimed to bounce off a wall into the subject's face. The monolight power was set so it provided the same exposure on the scene as the ambient or maybe 1/3 EV more. That permitted me to use it as a main or kicker depending on light/camera/subject position.

    My wedding website if full of examples using that lighting arrangement.

    Now I use the Godox AD600s in TTL mode with no speedlite on the camera. There is an article HERE describing the setup.

    For commercial shooting its been manual monolights for years. Now with the AD600s I've done some work with them in TTL mode. Primarily for headshots and architectural interiors. There are some other articles on the site linked above with my observations using the lights.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Also, using the manually set Profoto on optical and the Air-1 on TTL Wireless to trigger the Nissin speed-light, I also tried setting the A7R-II on FEL to take the pre-flash then the actual shot when ever desired, and the image was over-exposed. Non FEL is where the Profoto fires both the pre-flash and main flash in quick sequence, and that is properly exposed.

    Oh well, as long as it can be made to work without a PC outlet. Too many brain cells trying to get TTL when, for my applications, it is just as easy to set the lighting manually.

    Hope Sony eventually adds a PC port to the A7 series or at least to the battery grip like Leica did for the M240 multi-function battery grip.

    - Marc
    With the Godox AD600s I tested and played around with the FEL capabilities of the A7RII. I also used it for some of the Makeup artists look book sessions. It worked well for me. I have no idea how the Profoto stuff works.

    I have seen some videos talking about the flash exposure lock capabilities but it sounded like a profoto feature built into the trigger. The way I understood it, the photographer takes a test shot TTL, if the lighting is right then TTL can be turned off and the lights continue to fire at whatever power setting was delivered by the TTL.

    That's essentially what the FEL features does with my Sony A7RII. I also was able to do something similar with Canon 600ET-RTs and the Yongnou E3-RT transmitter/controller on a Fuji camera by doing the ETTL test shot with a Canon 5DIII. That let me use both cameras at an event lit with 600EX-RTs. The cameras, of course, need to be set the same for exposure.

    Having a PC port would be useful. For my shooting the Godox X system and the Sony A7RII give me all the features I need and most of the features I can image using. I haven't used them with other camera makes but from posts I've read they seem to work as well.

    Right now, my only disappointment is not being able to find Bowens S adapters that permit getting the flash tube farther into the modifier.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    My lights arrived yesterday. I'm still waiting on the hard case which should be in within the next week or 2.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Two V860Xs arrived today from Cheetah Light.
    I now its time to sell the Nissin Di700A kit.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    Two V860Xs arrived today from Cheetah Light.
    I now its time to sell the Nissin Di700A kit.
    Congrats
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    I'll check. I remember hearing that its in the pipeline.
    Realistically, I'd use an X1Ts in the hotshoe and put a 360II on a bracket if I wanted one on camera.

    I've worked with a couple of photographers that used Quantums on camera but always with a bracket.

    I've not tested it but I think the X1Ts should fire a 360II on a bracket.
    Question: Does one need the bracket? Can a non-Sony AD360II TTL (e.g., Canon mount), be used in the Sony Transmitter hot shoe sitting on an A7R2 and be triggered wirelessly from the Sony transmitter using the Sony TTL code embedded in the Canon version of the AD360II TTL?

    According to the X1Ts manual, you can turn off the firing pin (one of the function options) so as, one assumes, to use wireless only triggering and fire the flash wirelessly from the transmitter (since Sony TTL is supposed to be included in all the current shipping AD360II TTL models, right?)? Can one skip a flash bracket if one wanted to operate like an on camera (but kludgy) Quantum Trio? This wouldn't be necessary if the Sony version of the AD360II TTL were shipping, but it is not and Adorama does not know when their Streetlight for Sony will ship. Or is the AD360II too bulky or fragile for use in the transmitter's hot shoe?

    Since all Godox/Streaklight flashes include Canon, Nikon and Sony protocols, it would stand to reason that this should work. But from a fragility, ergonomic or actual triggering, are there obstacles to this kind of Quantum Trio-likesolution for fast shooting at events?

    Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere but I haven't managed to find any documentation for this particular use case.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Priolite Ultra is coming soon. http://prioliteultra.com/
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by rweissman View Post
    Question: Does one need the bracket? Can a non-Sony AD360II TTL (e.g., Canon mount), be used in the Sony Transmitter hot shoe sitting on an A7R2 and be triggered wirelessly from the Sony transmitter using the Sony TTL code embedded in the Canon version of the AD360II TTL?

    According to the X1Ts manual, you can turn off the firing pin (one of the function options) so as, one assumes, to use wireless only triggering and fire the flash wirelessly from the transmitter (since Sony TTL is supposed to be included in all the current shipping AD360II TTL models, right?)? Can one skip a flash bracket if one wanted to operate like an on camera (but kludgy) Quantum Trio? This wouldn't be necessary if the Sony version of the AD360II TTL were shipping, but it is not and Adorama does not know when their Streetlight for Sony will ship. Or is the AD360II too bulky or fragile for use in the transmitter's hot shoe?

    Since all Godox/Streaklight flashes include Canon, Nikon and Sony protocols, it would stand to reason that this should work. But from a fragility, ergonomic or actual triggering, are there obstacles to this kind of Quantum Trio-likesolution for fast shooting at events?

    Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere but I haven't managed to find any documentation for this particular use case.
    I'm not 100% sure, I'll test it with a v860IIs. Should work the same.
    The thing about your idea is that the X1Ts controller/trigger is not very sturdy. I doubt that you will find a 360 is comfortable on the top of the X1T. That is why most suggested bracket for the light.

    Edit: I did a test with v860IIs. It fired but not reliably with the setting put into the X1Ts. When I removed the speedlite from the X1Ts hotshoe it worked as expected. I suspect that its the proximity of the radios to one another.
    Last edited by dmward; 26th June 2016 at 10:56.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Priolite Ultra is coming soon. http://prioliteultra.com/
    So I found out quite a bit more about the lights today. For obvious reasons (NDA) I can't say anything about them until they're officially unveiled on the 4th of July but it will be an exciting addition to the Priolite family of lights for sure.

    Not to be overly enthusiastic but I think what'll be unveiled next week will benefit many here. I'm definitely happy that they're supporting Sony (and most of the top brands) cameras natively.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Priolite Ultra is coming soon. PRIOLITE ULTRA IS COMING
    Wow, do you have any idea what this is all about?

    I have my two 500 units, and they work perfectly. I wanted to pull the trigger on two 300 units to add to my kit, but now it looks like I have to wait and see what the heck this announcement will be. I probably shouldn't wait, and just get on with my original plan. There's always going to be new exciting stuff around the corner, you can't keep up with the latest and greatest.

    EDIT: Looks like I was too late with my post, lol. Thanks for the info.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by rjp85 View Post
    Wow, do you have any idea what this is all about?

    I have my two 500 units, and they work perfectly. I wanted to pull the trigger on two 300 units to add to my kit, but now it looks like I have to wait and see what the heck this announcement will be. I probably shouldn't wait, and just get on with my original plan. There's always going to be new exciting stuff around the corner, you can't keep up with the latest and greatest.

    EDIT: Looks like I was too late with my post, lol. Thanks for the info.
    Patience is a virtue... I think you may want to wait just a bit.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Patience is a virtue... I think you may want to wait just a bit.
    Thanks, I'll have to wait and see. 6 days ain't so bad.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by rjp85 View Post
    Thanks, I'll have to wait and see. 6 days ain't so bad.
    Nope... It's not bad at all.

    Oh yeah and congrats on the lights. I received mine about 2 weeks ago now. I'll be doing a rolling review of the MBX1000HS from a user's perspective. I have a "first look" at the MBX500HS lights on my blog.
    Priolite Ambassador | Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Is it possible to say whether these new products are compatible with the current hotsync products, so you could mix and match the current 1000, 500, 300 units with the new products and everything works with the existing remotes?

    Feel free to ignore this question if it gives away too much info.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by rjp85 View Post
    Is it possible to say whether these new products are compatible with the current hotsync products, so you could mix and match the current 1000, 500, 300 units with the new products and everything works with the existing remotes?

    Feel free to ignore this question if it gives away too much info.
    Hmmm can't say too much about specifics... I own the 1000w units as a Priolite Ambassador (paid for out of my own pockets to promote what I believe to be the best lighting system for Sony when it comes down to several key metrics for how I shoot) and the Sony remote due to being a Sony shooter. I'm confident to say that Priolite is further improving their lighting system.

    I think you will be happily surprised to see what Monday brings.
    Priolite Ambassador | Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    So I found out quite a bit more about the lights today. For obvious reasons (NDA) I can't say anything about them until they're officially unveiled on the 4th of July but it will be an exciting addition to the Priolite family of lights for sure.

    Not to be overly enthusiastic but I think what'll be unveiled next week will benefit many here. I'm definitely happy that they're supporting Sony (and most of the top brands) cameras natively.
    It's the 4th of July!

    What news can you share?

    - Marc

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    It's the 4th of July!

    What news can you share?

    - Marc
    19 more hours to go...
    Priolite Ambassador | Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    It's the 4th of July!

    What news can you share?

    - Marc
    So the cat is out the bag and I can speak a bit more freely about the Priolite MBX500HS Ultra. There's a promotional video in the link attached.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...compact-li-ion

    For a limited time early adopters can purchase the lights for a significant discount through Kickstarter. Currently the lowest priced package is running about the same as the 300ws MBX-HS versions.

    Key differences with the MBX500HS Ultra are the following.

    A) Significantly smaller in size and lighter in weight due to updated internal electronics. I've been speaking with one of the testers and he stated that two Ultras could probably fit in a backpack.
    B) Improved battery life due to updated Li-Ion battery (final specs aren't completed yet as they're still optimizing)
    C) Improved pricing for early adopters. For reference you could get two lights for less than the cost of one Profoto B1.

    The lights are still compatible with the same accessories due to the universal mount. The lights are still universally compatible with all universal or brand specific RC/RC-HS controllers. The lights will still seamlessly integrate with existing Priolite strobes.

    ***Full disclosure I'm a Priolite Brand Ambassador but I would never promote anything I don't use and/or wouldn't own myself.

    Rather than bash other competing products, I choose to speak to the merits of the Priolite system as I feel it can stand on it's own merits without any caveat. There are some different ways various companies choose to go about solving the same problems. Priolite's method works best for what I shoot. It's the only monolight on the market that I'm aware of that allows you to sync at any shutter speed available on your Canon, Nikon, Sony, or Pentax camera of choice and at any power level available up to 1000ws. It is also the only monolight with power options up to 1000ws I'm aware of that provides a user swappable Li-ion battery that allows one to shoot on location or plugged into a wall outlet like a traditional studio strobe out the box without need to purchase additional kits.***
    Priolite Ambassador | Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

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