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Thread: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

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    Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    It seems that Sony is starting to actually get some native TTL/HSSsupport when it comes to flash options finally. There's Phottix, Elinchrom, Godox/Cheetah/Flashpoint, Pixel King, Nissin Air, and of course Sony all set to release native options to allow on and off camera flash support. The point of this thread is to have a definitive source for everyone to add their first hand experiences and any testing done with MIS flash options for Sony Alpha.

    So far I only have experience with PCB Einstein and their native CyberSync Commander. It's 100% Manual but works extremely well. There are a few YouTube videos that detail how to get HSS working with these strobes using a Phottix Odin controller.
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 29th March 2016 at 13:06.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    I've already secured the new Nissin Air 1 Commander and two Di700A Speed-lights for Sony ADI/P-TTL off-camera radio controlled lighting with the Sony A7R-II.

    It all works reasonably well. I've tested it, but have not done so under pressure of a job. I have a wedding in a couple of weeks and will have a much better notion of how well they work.

    The Di700A speed-lights are comparable in size to top models from Nikon or Canon, so they are unbalanced when used individually in the hot-shoe of the A7 cameras. I have two other smaller speed-lights I use when just using on-camera flash for fill: the very small Nissin i40, and a new Sony compatible Metz that's still smaller than the bigger Di700As.

    Setting up the Nissin Air-1 system was tricky, and the binding instructions confusing. I finally muddled my way through all of it and discovered that you have to follow a strict sequence each time you go to use off-camera wireless TTL flash.

    The camera has to set to wireless flash, and the speed-lights initially have to be set to normal TTL, turned on and then set to wireless TTL using the flash's controls … when you are finished, they have to be set back to normal TTL before turning them off. Other wise, the system doesn't reliably just turn on and off in wireless TTL mode. Once you do turn everything on, you can just leave it on and let it go to sleep when not in use.

    I also set one of my custom buttons to toggle between Wireless flash and other standard flash settings, so I can move back-and forth between off-camera and on-camera.

    TTL exposure compensation is possible per each off-camera unit being controlled.

    HSS sync is possible up to 1/8000 by pressing and holding the Air-1 Commander's Pilot Button for 3 seconds. HSS uses higher energy, so the recycle time is extended to a minimum of 7 seconds to protect the flash from over heating. 7 seconds or longer is an eternity when shooting a wedding or portrait session, so I won't be using that option very often.

    The speed-light do not have 1/4" sockets on the base of the flash and require use of the foot that comes with it to attach to a stand to mobile boom arm. The stands are not exactly a sturdy attachment device, and I recommend a more robust solution like a Stroboframe cold-shoe, or something like that.

    BTW, if the A7R-II is set to silent shooting, the hot-shoe doesn't work. And don't count on hard-wiring anything to the A7 cameras as a back-up when working with strobes … they do not have a PC outlet.

    - Marc
    Last edited by fotografz; 29th March 2016 at 05:41. Reason: addition
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    HERE is an article I wrote about Sony TTL metering speedlites.
    I've been using the Nissin Air system since its been available. It works well. The only drawback is that it has no means of controlling remote speedlites via the system while there is a speedlite in the hotshoe.

    I recently did some additional testing with the Nissin Air system to confirm how it accomplishes various functions in preparation for testing the Godox Sony variant radio signaling system. I am told the first units will be available by the end of this month via a Chinese source.

    Here is an article describing how spot TTL metering works along with FEL on the A7 with the Nissin Air system. Since this is all camera based its reasonable to expect that it will work with any TTL capable speedlites.

    I also confirmed that rear curtain sync, since its a camera setting, is unavailable with the Air system because it requires that the camera be set to wireless, which is exclusive of RCS and slow sync.

    I've also used the Pixel King Sony trigger to provide FP-sync for Godox AD360s in H mode. This will also enable "Hyper Sync" with voltage based power control strobes. i.e. Those with increasing T.1 duration as power is reduced.

    As one expects, I have been able to use X-sync triggers to fire manual strobes without a problem.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    To add to that, the Nissin Air HSS is totally manual. TTL does not work in HSS.

    Hopefully, the Sony wireless will adress the defects associated with Nissin Air.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    To add to that, the Nissin Air HSS is totally manual. TTL does not work in HSS.

    Hopefully, the Sony wireless will adress the defects associated with Nissin Air.
    Vivek, TTL worked for me in HSS mode with the Nissin Air system. It reached full power well before 1/8000 shutter speed the way I was testing but it worked.
    I'm going to go back and retest, since I was moving back and forth between TTL and manual and I want to be certain that I'm remembering correctly.

    Just did a quick test and confirmed that TTL works in HSS mode.

    Shutter at 1/500 and 1/1000 F stops of F6.3 and F8 with ISO constant at 400. Center metering. All the frames look the same on the LCD when reviewed. Also the histograms.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    To add to that, the Nissin Air HSS is totally manual. TTL does not work in HSS.
    Bullet point in the Nissin Instructions for Sony enabled AIR-1 with the Di700A Speed-Lights:

    * High Speed Synchronization: In M/TTL Mode

    - Marc
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Bullet point in the Nissin Instructions for Sony enabled AIR-1 with the Di700A Speed-Lights:

    * High Speed Synchronization: In M/TTL Mode

    - Marc
    I take that to mean M & TTL Mode(s)
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Marc,
    I haven't used the Di700a much in HSS mode but have used them for several weddings. They work well. I use them the same way I used the 600EX-RTs with Canon. Only difference is having to hold one speedlite in my hand for close axis fill so I can have the Air Commander in the hotshoe. Not a big deal.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    Vivek, TTL worked for me in HSS mode with the Nissin Air system. It reached full power well before 1/8000 shutter speed the way I was testing but it worked.
    I'm going to go back and retest, since I was moving back and forth between TTL and manual and I want to be certain that I'm remembering correctly.

    Just did a quick test and confirmed that TTL works in HSS mode.

    Shutter at 1/500 and 1/1000 F stops of F6.3 and F8 with ISO constant at 400. Center metering. All the frames look the same on the LCD when reviewed. Also the histograms.
    My unit fails in this aspect. Inconsistent exposures ( i can understand darker frames if the flash power is exceeded but blown frames indicate that the TTL function in HSS mode does not work).

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    HERE is an article I wrote about Sony TTL metering speedlites.
    I've been using the Nissin Air system since its been available. It works well. The only drawback is that it has no means of controlling remote speedlites via the system while there is a speedlite in the hotshoe.

    I recently did some additional testing with the Nissin Air system to confirm how it accomplishes various functions in preparation for testing the Godox Sony variant radio signaling system. I am told the first units will be available by the end of this month via a Chinese source.

    Here is an article describing how spot TTL metering works along with FEL on the A7 with the Nissin Air system. Since this is all camera based its reasonable to expect that it will work with any TTL capable speedlites.

    I also confirmed that rear curtain sync, since its a camera setting, is unavailable with the Air system because it requires that the camera be set to wireless, which is exclusive of RCS and slow sync.

    I've also used the Pixel King Sony trigger to provide FP-sync for Godox AD360s in H mode. This will also enable "Hyper Sync" with voltage based power control strobes. i.e. Those with increasing T.1 duration as power is reduced.

    As one expects, I have been able to use X-sync triggers to fire manual strobes without a problem.
    Excellent info. Thanks! Nice work BTW. As a fellow wedding shooter, I appreciate what it takes to get that sort of off-camera lighting in the midst of controlled chaos that a wedding can be

    Like you, I had some trepidation moving to Sony and loosing more sophisticated off-camera solutions available with Canon and Nikon.

    When I shot weddings with the Sony A900 (old style hot-shoe), I used the Phottix passthrough TTL sender but the off-camera flash wasn't TTL. Still worked well, but not ideal because you couldn't adjust the off-camera light remotely.

    The way I'm thinking of solving the inability to use a Nissin speed-light as a master in the hot shoe for fill is to place it on a flip bracket with the AIR-1 in the hot shoe, (In past I previously used pre-radio Canon TTL speed lights for fill using the STE-2 in the hot-shoe and eliminated hard-wires while retaining the superior AF Assist of the STE-2 sender).

    Your mention of the impending smaller Nissin i60A is good news because it will make such an application less awkward and more feasible, while getting the at-camera flash up higher and centered over the lens regardless of which orientation the camera is in. The AIR-1 Commander is small/low enough to make this work.

    Almost all lighting at weddings and location portraits I've done in the past few years has been with Profoto AIR Acute B600-AIR, B1-AIR and now a supplementary B2-AIR kit. My greatest wish is for Profoto to include Sony in their supported TTL protocols including HSS/TTL. Even though the Profoto AIR is not TTL for Sony (or my Leica S) it is easy to adjust from the camera no matter where the light is.

    It seems I'm either shooting in heavily back-lit conditions at the wrong time of day (I shoot in Florida during the winter, Michigan in summer), or it's pitch dark by the time the clients get to some shots. In either case, lots of W/s and the ability to use HSS has become in demand more than ever.

    Like this example:
    https://fotografz.smugmug.com/Weddin...os/Sams-Album/

    HEY! Profoto a little help here

    - Marc
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    My unit fails in this aspect. Inconsistent exposures ( i can understand darker frames if the flash power is exceeded but blown frames indicate that the TTL function in HSS mode does not work).
    That reminds me of the miscommunication problems I had with Canon when the 580EX twisted in the hotshoe. Maybe there is dirt or something interfering with the communication connections in the hotshoe. While the Multi-function shoe offers lots of communication options for Sony it does seem that the physical connections are a bit fragile.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Excellent info. Thanks! Nice work BTW.
    Thanks.

    I too used the STE2 for wireless on bracket speedlite fill.

    What I'm going to test as soon as its available is the Godox X1 trigger with a Nissin Di700a on top. Indications based on testing with Canon variant is that it will work. If it does, then the i60A is a perfect on-camera speedlite with the X1 trigger firing Godox TTL lights. That offers power options up to 600Ws with TTL.

    Probably lighter and smaller than using a Godox TTL speedlite as master on the camera.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Don't forget you can hook up the Nissin to external packs like the Godox 360 packs. You could go a very long time and almost instant recycle power too. I use this a lot myself. Why I like having the Godox and Nissin system together. I'm waiting for more data on the new Godox portables David's testing now and the updated Nissin portable with even more power.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Really my only complaint (and it's a big one for long term investment) with PCB equipment is the Balcar mount. Obviously and it's well documented that Profoto is far and away better than anything else when it comes to mount security and available modifier options. The Bowens mount isn't too far behind though in security and modifier options for those of us on a tighter budget.

    I've been seriously considering selling my PCB stuff, changing the mount on my Mola Demi to Bowens or Profoto (depending on which direction I go), and keep going from there. I know Profoto is available to rent (so that's always a great thing) but I also like to experiment and practice techniques around the house personally. So I'd like to buy into a system based on one of these mounts be it a B1/D1, a Phottix Indra, Godox or one of the many variants of it. Elinchrom is supporting Sony too but I think they may actually make a less secure mount than PCB.

    The best thing about the Godox is that they also do inexpensive speedlights that play with the rest of the system.

    On a side note, Guy can we get this to be a "sticky?"
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Just to add to all of this. I have used the Nissin flash units with the Air commander with great success. The only real downside I see is they lack a little in power.

    As to Godox, I purchased a few of the inexpensive studio strobes which work well in conjunction with my portable Godox units. Same trigger and the same ability to remotely change the output.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    I love my Godox 360 system. I have 3 of them and I use them all the time for portraits and such. I actually have never even needed full power with them I get F8 on even 1/32 with some modifiers. I just did a two day all day shoot with them as to just light the background and one hair light. Used two studio strobes out front for main and fill. I went all day on the same batteries, never did need my spates. Next year same project I may just go all Godox. They seem to go on and on with batteries. I really love his kit as I sold all my studio units and when I need that I will just rent.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Btw I actually like the Bowens S mount.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    Thanks.

    I too used the STE2 for wireless on bracket speedlite fill.

    What I'm going to test as soon as its available is the Godox X1 trigger with a Nissin Di700a on top. Indications based on testing with Canon variant is that it will work. If it does, then the i60A is a perfect on-camera speedlite with the X1 trigger firing Godox TTL lights. That offers power options up to 600Ws with TTL.

    Probably lighter and smaller than using a Godox TTL speedlite as master on the camera.
    I would say the only concern I will have going forward with these Nissin speed-lights is the strength of the foot under duress and stability of the whole rig when mounted on top of a sender attached to such a small camera (the old Sony-Minolta mount was fairly secure in the Phottix sender mounted to a bigger Sony A900, but still vulnerable to bumps).

    I recall the days of Canon speed-light's foot busting off at the most inopportune times until Canon reinforced it. The price one pays for less expensive choices I guess. Remains to be seen. A smaller on-camera speed-light like the i60A could go a long way in mitigating such an issue.

    - Marc

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Don't forget you can hook up the Nissin to external packs like the Godox 360 packs. You could go a very long time and almost instant recycle power too. I use this a lot myself. Why I like having the Godox and Nissin system together. I'm waiting for more data on the new Godox portables David's testing now and the updated Nissin portable with even more power.
    My experience with using external packs on smaller speed-lights has been thermal shut down. I guess that would depend on shooting conditions, over-all time/rapid fire/intervals between sequences, and how much light is needed. The unknown with the Nissins is not IF but WHEN they will shut down. I haven't rapid fired these units yet to see the limits. The Sony units were pretty dismal, which is why I stopped using them as any sort of main lighting. Canon and Nikon were no better.

    - Marc

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Have not ran into any overheating issues with it yet, not to say it won't happen but seems pretty good about it. I shot a lot of awards stuff where I pop off two frames back to back and nothing yet. As far as hot shoes well there all the same across the industry so that problem always exist. No issues yet on top of camera.

    I do want to get the I60 unit though
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Really my only complaint (and it's a big one for long term investment) with PCB equipment is the Balcar mount. Obviously and it's well documented that Profoto is far and away better than anything else when it comes to mount security and available modifier options. The Bowens mount isn't too far behind though in security and modifier options for those of us on a tighter budget.

    I've been seriously considering selling my PCB stuff, changing the mount on my Mola Demi to Bowens or Profoto (depending on which direction I go), and keep going from there. I know Profoto is available to rent (so that's always a great thing) but I also like to experiment and practice techniques around the house personally. So I'd like to buy into a system based on one of these mounts be it a B1/D1, a Phottix Indra, Godox or one of the many variants of it. Elinchrom is supporting Sony too but I think they may actually make a less secure mount than PCB.

    The best thing about the Godox is that they also do inexpensive speedlights that play with the rest of the system.

    On a side note, Guy can we get this to be a "sticky?"
    The other nice thing about the Profoto mount is the ability to "modify the modifiers" buy sliding it along the body of the strobe and changing the intensity/focus in each mod (which is why there are measured markings along the strobe heads). But, I agree that they are still pretty pricy, and so many other choices have come so very far in improvements.

    I stuck with Profoto because of the mount and their AIR system which syncs with my Leica S up to 1/1000, plus AIR is built into our Hensel Porty1200L and I like the self-contained B1s a lot.

    The most problems I've ever had with strobe mounts has been with Elinchrom (both regular and the very weak plastic Quadra mount). The engineering concept of their regular mount seems like it should work but isn't robust enough by design IMO the construction, materials and fit also leave a lot to be desired. Even the Elinchrom made Profoto speed-ring to use the fabulous Rotalux modifiers on Profoto heads (I have 3 of them), is junk compared to Profoto's OEM mount. The mount doesn't fit well, and 2 out of the 3 Elinchrom Profoto lever-clamp portions have bent and fallen apart.

    Elinchrom also persists on making their umbrella shaft mount smaller than everyone else, making many of the great new umbrella mods unusable.

    Speaking of umbrellas, the under $100 Wescott 7' Parabolic umbrellas with their $30 fitted diffuser sock is an incredibly good location solution (I recently used these on D1s to help a friend in need shoot bleachers full of school kids). Best value out there IMO.

    Side note: One other consideration depending on what you shoot is Hensel. The Hensel mount is industrial strength. When I downsized my studio for semi-retirement, I loaned all of my Hensel stuff to a good friend and he has learned how to use the Free Mask system for studio work unbelievable idea that allows instant outlining you have to see it to believe it. Hensel also has some of the more innovative modifiers their beauty dish is widely thought of as one of the best.

    I'm rambling so time to shut up

    - Marc
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The other nice thing about the Profoto mount is the ability to "modify the modifiers" buy sliding it along the body of the strobe and changing the intensity/focus in each mod (which is why there are measured markings along the strobe heads). But, I agree that they are still pretty pricy, and so many other choices have come so very far in improvements.

    I stuck with Profoto because of the mount and their AIR system which syncs with my Leica S up to 1/1000, plus AIR is built into our Hensel Porty1200L and I like the self-contained B1s a lot.

    The most problems I've ever had with strobe mounts has been with Elinchrom (both regular and the very weak plastic Quadra mount). The engineering concept of their regular mount seems like it should work but isn't robust enough by design IMO the construction, materials and fit also leave a lot to be desired. Even the Elinchrom made Profoto speed-ring to use the fabulous Rotalux modifiers on Profoto heads (I have 3 of them), is junk compared to Profoto's OEM mount. The mount doesn't fit well, and 2 out of the 3 Elinchrom Profoto lever-clamp portions have bent and fallen apart.

    Elinchrom also persists on making their umbrella shaft mount smaller than everyone else, making many of the great new umbrella mods unusable.

    Speaking of umbrellas, the under $100 Wescott 7' Parabolic umbrellas with their $30 fitted diffuser sock is an incredibly good location solution (I recently used these on D1s to help a friend in need shoot bleachers full of school kids). Best value out there IMO.

    Side note: One other consideration depending on what you shoot is Hensel. The Hensel mount is industrial strength. When I downsized my studio for semi-retirement, I loaned all of my Hensel stuff to a good friend and he has learned how to use the Free Mask system for studio work unbelievable idea that allows instant outlining you have to see it to believe it. Hensel also has some of the more innovative modifiers their beauty dish is widely thought of as one of the best.

    I'm rambling so time to shut up

    - Marc
    I agree 100% on the Westcott Umbrellas. I have two silver ones and plan on picking up two white shoot-throughs next time I see them on sale. I hear the Zeppelin's a re great as well but a good bit pricier than the Elinchrom Rotalux boxes.

    I also agree on the benefits of the Profoto "zoom" ability but I don't know that it would be a responsible purchase as a hobbyist... but that's never stopped me before. Hensel has always been of interest to me as well because it works with Profoto Air. I hear that Chimera makes high quality softboxes (and other modifiers) but the selection isn't as wide as Profoto or Bowens S mount. I don't fully understand how Freemask works or the purpose of it but those that use it hold it in the highest regard.

    Your remarks about Elinchrom echo what most say - great product options in idea with questionable build quality in execution.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    The Godox AD600 has an interesting capability that is also available with Hensel.
    It permits setting the light to trigger on one of up to 4 sequential shutter clicks.

    HERE at the 4:11 point is the menu setting.

    HERE is a page with videos that shows how Hensel has implemented the capability. Also, the software used to simplify creating the mask.

    Its interesting that Hensel offers the Mask trigger capability as a separate hardware option for other lights.

    It looks like the feature could be added to all the lights in the Godox X system. I plan to push for that, including adding it to the X system receiver which would make it available to any light that can be fired with the X receiver.

    Another use that's been suggested is using the capability to create a sequence of lights that could be used to illuminate the frames in a burst used to capture action sequences. Especially when the setup means that a light can't recycle fast enough to cover the frames in the burst.
    David

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Beyond Phottix and Nissin, there may be some other good news on the Sony Alpha TTL strobe front. I was about to buy some Phottix gear when I was advised by a friend, "don't start investing in another flash system. You're a Profoto user. Profoto will have an Air commander available for Sony within the year." Of this, he was positive and he is in a position within the industry to know. He was not being anti-Phottix nor Pro-Profoto--just a very knowledgeable insider who knows what I regularly shoot. (Quantum and Profoto.)

    And right before Quantum Instruments was acquired, I was offered a beta product (from a Q-Flash product manager) that would allow Sony Alpha to work with the Q-Flash system. I responded "Yes" but never heard back. Perhaps the M&A shelved the project, but it is good to know that Quantum was at least working on it. Perhaps some positive feedback to Quantum would be helpful?

    On Profoto, keep your fingers crossed!
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    My view on modifier mounts;
    The Balcar mount that Buff uses is probably the least reliable for larger modifiers. Its does offer an ability to get the flash tube into the modifier which I think is important.
    The profoto mount makes sense for their light design. However many of their lights have the tube buried with just a flat diffusion glass.
    The Elinchrom mount is nice with its large opening and ability to get the tube into the modifier. I don't find it too flimsy for larger modifiers.
    The Bowens S mount is secure but all of the adapters I've seen have a relatively deep throat which makes it difficult to get the flash tube into the modifier.

    I'm not sure there is a perfect mount that is also universally adaptable to a wide range of modifiers and lights.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by rweissman View Post
    Beyond Phottix and Nissin, there may be some other good news on the Sony Alpha TTL strobe front. I was about to buy some Phottix gear when I was advised by a friend, "don't start investing in another flash system. You're a Profoto user. Profoto will have an Air commander available for Sony within the year." Of this, he was positive and he is in a position within the industry to know. He was not being anti-Phottix nor Pro-Profoto--just a very knowledgeable insider who knows what I regularly shoot. (Quantum and Profoto.)

    And right before Quantum Instruments was acquired, I was offered a beta product (from a Q-Flash product manager) that would allow Sony Alpha to work with the Q-Flash system. I responded "Yes" but never heard back. Perhaps the M&A shelved the project, but it is good to know that Quantum was at least working on it. Perhaps some positive feedback to Quantum would be helpful?

    On Profoto, keep your fingers crossed!
    Well it's pretty simple given Sonys rise these days in the market a lot of companies are going to have to support Sony products to keep sales going. A lot of people are switching over. This is great news for us end users. Seems right now everyone has something in the works to support Sony. I like these choices I did not have when I bought in 2 years ago. It's all good
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Lots of good information in this thread.

    I am using the Nissin and have nothing bad to say about them and they have yet to shut down on me when using the Godox power packs. However I realize that is a possibility at some point.

    I am very interested in the upcoming Godox solutions as they are my primary lights and I am supposed to beta test yet another (still undisclosed) portable solution in the next month or two. Lots on Sony options becoming available.

    Jim
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by JMaher View Post
    Lots of good information in this thread.

    I am using the Nissin and have nothing bad to say about them and they have yet to shut down on me when using the Godox power packs. However I realize that is a possibility at some point.

    I am very interested in the upcoming Godox solutions as they are my primary lights and I am supposed to beta test yet another (still undisclosed) portable solution in the next month or two. Lots on Sony options becoming available.

    Jim
    That makes me curious if Nissin will come out with a monolight...
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    That makes me curious if Nissin will come out with a monolight...
    Historically, they seem to be content to concentrate on speedlites. The receiver that is announced for the Air System will, at least, make it possible to fire monolights from the controller.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    Historically, they seem to be content to concentrate on speedlites. The receiver that is announced for the Air System will, at least, make it possible to fire monolights from the controller.
    Yeah I know they only do speed lights for now but there's definitely a market for it and they do have the Air 1 Controller.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Yeah I know they only do speed lights for now but there's definitely a market for it and they do have the Air 1 Controller.
    Not only the Air 1 Controller but the protocol stack for ETTL with Sony, Nikon and Canon along with some others.

    It would be interesting if they were to approach some of the other OEM manufacturers that are looking for the technology they have to leverage battery powered strobe technology an other manufacturer is in hand.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    Not only the Air 1 Controller but the protocol stack for ETTL with Sony, Nikon and Canon along with some others.

    It would be interesting if they were to approach some of the other OEM manufacturers that are looking for the technology they have to leverage battery powered strobe technology an other manufacturer is in hand.
    Min halfway convinced that the Elinchrom Skyport Plus is a rebadged Phottix Odin II. They look very similar, both have ODS, both support 5 groups of lights, Odin has TTL protocols, Elinchrom has the Skyport protocols, and both recently had Sekonic native light meters released for the platform.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    I agree with Guy, it is good to see that 3rd party equipment manufacturers are finally taking Sony seriously.

    Even a hint that Profoto will support Sony TTL is fantastic news! The TTL AIR transmitters not only allow full control of individual off-camera lights, they have a read-out that shows the settings as you adjust them. HSS and the choice of rear shutter sync helps and I hope they preserve that for Sony AIR version.

    RE Mounts etc.: The newer Profoto mono-lights (D1, B1) do have the tube surrounded by a 77 degree reflector covered by flat faced diffusers. I swapped out all of the flat panels with glass domes except for one D1-AIR and One B1-AIR.

    Before making that swap, I tested the D1 with dome against a standard Profoto head using different modifiers at different degrees of head protrusion into the modifiers and found no appreciable difference in light metering across the face of the modifier, or at the subject. I also tested it with our Mola 33" dish and found the same comparable results. I kept one D1 and B1 with the flat diffuser because I love the Profoto D1/B1 grids that slip flush over the front of the head. Very compact to carry.

    Frankly, Profoto should have made the dome standard, and offered the option of a flat glass and grids

    I would not want the B2 Head to have a protruding glass dome because it would defeat the purpose of being so small/light weight besides, it isn't an option anyway.

    I've now sold all of my Profoto pack/head system and work with the Monos except one Acute B600AIR pack-head kit I use for overhead boomed lighting because of the small head verses the bigger-heavier mono-lights.

    As far as I know, no other strobe mount allows you to slide a shoot-into modifier deeper or shallower to alter the lighting quality from the same mod.

    BTW, I'm not anti-Elinchrom. I still use a Quadra Lithium kit I solved part of the flimsy plastic mount issue by permanently epoxying an EL Mount Adapter to the Quadra mount after one of the mount flanges broke off on the Quadra head. Even after all that, I still can't really use my much loved 39" Rotalux Deep Octa on a mobile boom arm

    However, as I mentioned before there are so many good lighting choices now coming on-line that it is a wealth of riches for all of us. I love hearing about all of them, and especially like that so many folks are interested in lighting and working with it.

    I'd love to see a higher sync speed and a PC outlet on the next Sony A7R-III camera

    Marc
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ...However, as I mentioned before there are so many good lighting choices now coming on-line that it is a wealth of riches for all of us. I love hearing about all of them, and especially like that so many folks are interested in lighting and working with it.

    I'd love to see a higher sync speed and a PC outlet on the next Sony A7R-III camera

    Marc
    I agree and that was my intention of starting this thread to open up these Sony specific discussions in the Sony forum where it may go missing in the Lighting specific forum or be met with responses of "switch to Canon, Nikon, or MF." In any case though I think the last 6-9 months have sort of been a true "turning point" to own Sony cameras. They sort of revolutionized what mirrorless was thought to be able to do AF and responsiveness wise with the A6xxx/second generation FE bodies.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Unfortunately, x sync speed is tied to the ability to build shutters that have fast enough curtains. I expect that's a cost vs performance issue. Along with the consideration that the faster the mass moves the more its likely to cause camera shack.

    When I was testing the Nissin system I found that rear curtain sync is unavailable because its a camera set flash condition. The Air system requires that the camera be set to wireless which excludes RCS as an option. The other camera menu option in that list is slow sync. Will be interesting to see how Godox and others address that situation.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post

    When I was testing the Nissin system I found that rear curtain sync is unavailable because its a camera set flash condition. The Air system requires that the camera be set to wireless which excludes RCS as an option. The other camera menu option in that list is slow sync. Will be interesting to see how Godox and others address that situation.
    besides that it is really not that user friendly requiring the invisible menu diving? I am really looking forward to the Sony version.

    For the first one to offer radio wireless option, it was OK. But, given a choice, I would avoid it altogether.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Received unofficial word that there may be ongoing testing in Germany for a Sony Priolite controller as well. Priolite has a couple of interesting strobes that support HotSync (similar to HyperSync,) is battery powered, can be used as a AC/DC unit, supports Priolite/Bowens S/Hensel modifiers, and there's a pack/head version of the strobe as well.

    Just another potential option down the line. This year may see more of my camera budget applied to lighting than cameras/lenses.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    HERE is a page I just added to my knowledge page describing two frame masking technique. The Units/Alt feature on the AD600 started the discussion about its capabilities. Once I did some research I thought I'd simulate it to see how complicated it would be to use in Photoshop.

    Now I am even more eager for the Sony variant to be available from Godox. The Hensel trigger set and the masking software together are nearly the same price as two AD600s.

    I am lobbying for them to add the feature to the other lights that are supported in the X system.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    Unfortunately, x sync speed is tied to the ability to build shutters that have fast enough curtains. I expect that's a cost vs performance issue. Along with the consideration that the faster the mass moves the more its likely to cause camera shack.

    When I was testing the Nissin system I found that rear curtain sync is unavailable because its a camera set flash condition. The Air system requires that the camera be set to wireless which excludes RCS as an option. The other camera menu option in that list is slow sync. Will be interesting to see how Godox and others address that situation.
    Yes, understood. With Nissin you have to set "Wireless" in the camera menu, so you cannot then select "Rear-Sync". The revealing question is whether that is also true for Nissin AIR-1 for Canon and Nikon TTL use.

    I'm not sure why Nissin had to make the "Wireless" setting mandatory. I sure hope that isn't true for other wireless options like Profoto AIR TTL. Profoto AIR for Canon and Nikon allows use of Rear Sync with TTL 2nd shutter sync can be set in-camera or selected via the sync button on the AIR Transceiver.

    - Marc

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, understood. With Nissin you have to set "Wireless" in the camera menu, so you cannot then select "Rear-Sync". The revealing question is whether that is also true for Nissin AIR-1 for Canon and Nikon TTL use.

    I'm not sure why Nissin had to make the "Wireless" setting mandatory. I sure hope that isn't true for other wireless options like Profoto AIR TTL. Profoto AIR for Canon and Nikon allows use of Rear Sync with TTL … 2nd shutter sync can be set in-camera or selected via the sync button on the AIR Transceiver.

    - Marc
    The specifications on page 16 of the manual specifically list RCS for Canon and Nikon and exclude it for Sony.

    My suspicion is that Sony does something in the firmware to control communications with flash attached to hotshoe. That's why the three flash settings in the menu. Probably part of the good news / bad news with the multi function interface hotshoe.

    Will be interesting to see if Godox has found a way around it.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    The Sony variant Godox 685 and X1T have shown up on eBay.
    I just emailed my Godox source.
    Hopefully the hardware will show up within a couple of weeks so I can start some evaluation.

    Also on Amazon.

    The XTR-16 and XTR16s are 2.4Ghz receivers for the older lights so they will be triggered by the new X1 system trigger.
    Last edited by dmward; 2nd April 2016 at 12:47.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Well that was "fast." The Priolite Remote HS for Sony was released last Friday so it's not a rumor any longer. We have one additional option as well now for naively syncing flash up to 1/8000 of a second.

    http://priolite.us/rc-hsp-2-4ghz-hot...te-for-pentax/

    The coolest thing about the Priolites IMO are that they are battery powered like Profoto B1's but can also be plugged into the wall if available like Profoto D1's. Speaking of Profoto, they've released a Profoto modifier adapter too. I don't know if it gives the "zooming" feature to the modifiers but it does make this a extremely flexible monolight that can be used with Priolite mount, Bowens-S mount, some Hensel mount, and most Profoto mount light modifiers

    http://shop.priolite.us/item/profoto-adapter
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Well that was "fast." The Priolite Remote HS for Sony was released last Friday so it's not a rumor any longer. We have one additional option as well now for naively syncing flash up to 1/8000 of a second.

    http://priolite.us/rc-hsp-2-4ghz-hot...te-for-pentax/
    I looked at the specs for the HS version; flash duration is 1/200 (t.05) which means they are using a "HyperSync" like solution for the high shutter speed. The benefit is that the light is optimized for this operation. Interesting that they say x sync only with other triggers. I wonder how the lights would perform with another FP-sync trigger such as the Godox X1 or YN-622.

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    The coolest thing about the Priolites IMO are that they are battery powered like Profoto B1's but can also be plugged into the wall if available like Profoto D1's. Speaking of Profoto, they've released a Profoto modifier adapter too. I don't know if it gives the "zooming" feature to the modifiers but it does make this a extremely flexible monolight that can be used with Priolite mount, Bowens-S mount, some Hensel mount, and most Profoto mount light modifiers

    http://shop.priolite.us/item/profoto-adapter
    It appears that the Profoto adapter is a sleeve that fits the head placing the flash tube and dome inside the sleeve. It seems to me that the tube is too far back in the modifier for optimum performance.

    Interesting product line, but pricey.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    I looked at the specs for the HS version; flash duration is 1/200 (t.05) which means they are using a "HyperSync" like solution for the high shutter speed. The benefit is that the light is optimized for this operation. Interesting that they say x sync only with other triggers. I wonder how the lights would perform with another FP-sync trigger such as the Godox X1 or YN-622.


    It appears that the Profoto adapter is a sleeve that fits the head placing the flash tube and dome inside the sleeve. It seems to me that the tube is too far back in the modifier for optimum performance.

    Interesting product line, but pricey.
    Yeah I agree and there are both "hot sync" versions with slower sync speeds and longer flash durations, as well as, normal versions with shorter flash durations that will sync perfectly fine with medium format systems that have leaf shutters.

    The Profoto mount as you stated is a fitted collar to allow modifiers to be used with these lights. It may or may not be any worse than the B1/D1 built in reflectors. Maybe there's a frosted dome that can be added too down the line. I can't say but maybe this is the case with enough feedback.

    I'm thinking about giving these lights a try soon and if I do then I'll post the results here. They are pricier than Godox/Cheetah/Adorama but I think that's because of German design/manufacturing (possibly). I'm still awaiting your tests on the Sony versions of the Godox rebrands. The Priolites are in line with the prices of the Phottix Pro Indras and many other moonlights that are considered mid to high end moonlights. I like the mount flexibility, the ability to shoot on location or be on wall power with the same unit without external battery generators, and the ability for the lights to work with at least the four brands currently supported.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    It will be interesting to see how they preform in what they call HS mode. The long burn suggests that they may have engineered the capacitor(s) to create a flatter than normal luminosity curve. I am taking on faith that their t05 reference means t.05 which means 95% of the capacitor energy has been used by the tube. If they mean t.5 (50%) then its a REALLY long burn. :-)

    Their pack approach is interesting as well. I'm planning to get the Godox extension cable for the AD600 which creates the same sort of configuration.

    I looked at the video describing how they have implemented masking sequential exposing. Interesting implementation making Group D the means for accomplishing it. That suggests that there are effectively only 3 groups available for "normal" lighting.

    I do think the trigger based implementation is easier. Godox using UNITS/ALT feature on the light offers more useful scenarios but doe take more work to setup since it requires going into the menu of each light.

    I thought I saw a frosted dome in one of the product pix. That would be similar to the Profoto lights with the sunken tube. Generally, I'd rather change the adapter ring on the modifier than use the mount adapter approach. That does mean certain modifiers are unavailable though.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    It will be interesting to see how they preform in what they call HS mode. The long burn suggests that they may have engineered the capacitor(s) to create a flatter than normal luminosity curve. I am taking on faith that their t05 reference means t.05 which means 95% of the capacitor energy has been used by the tube. If they mean t.5 (50%) then its a REALLY long burn. :-)

    Their pack approach is interesting as well. I'm planning to get the Godox extension cable for the AD600 which creates the same sort of configuration.

    I looked at the video describing how they have implemented masking sequential exposing. Interesting implementation making Group D the means for accomplishing it. That suggests that there are effectively only 3 groups available for "normal" lighting.

    I do think the trigger based implementation is easier. Godox using UNITS/ALT feature on the light offers more useful scenarios but doe take more work to setup since it requires going into the menu of each light.

    I thought I saw a frosted dome in one of the product pix. That would be similar to the Profoto lights with the sunken tube. Generally, I'd rather change the adapter ring on the modifier than use the mount adapter approach. That does mean certain modifiers are unavailable though.
    Yeah, I looked around and saw the frosted and clear domes on the Internet. I don't know that it'll be the end all as it doesn't provide TTL options like Godox, Phottix, or Profoto but it is one more option for Sony and that's great. Apparently they're working on a Phase One RC-HS as well. Who knows... Maybe they'll do a Leica and Fuji as well.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Yeah, I looked around and saw the frosted and clear domes on the Internet. I don't know that it'll be the end all as it doesn't provide TTL options like Godox, Phottix, or Profoto but it is one more option for Sony and that's great. Apparently they're working on a Phase One RC-HS as well. Who knows... Maybe they'll do a Leica and Fuji as well.
    I wonder if implementing FP-sync communication with the camera body is easier than all the rest of the TTL protocol requirements. That's all that has to happen for the "HotSync" to work.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    I wonder if implementing FP-sync communication with the camera body is easier than all the rest of the TTL protocol requirements. That's all that has to happen for the "HotSync" to work.
    I can't say for sure but there are those that focus on this technology like Pocket Wizard and Elinchrom. There are those that focus on TTL and HSS like Sony, Nissin, Godox, etc. There are those that do both like Phottix too.
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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I can't say for sure but there are those that focus on this technology like Pocket Wizard and Elinchrom. There are those that focus on TTL and HSS like Sony, Nissin, Godox, etc. There are those that do both like Phottix too.
    PW, Elinchrom, etc. are using the "Hyper Sync model because they are trying to elevate the older voltage controlled power management approach to FP-sync. Godox, and Phottix are the only ones, to date, using IGBT technology and high Hz pulsing that was introduced with speedlites. Profoto as well come to think of it.

    The high Hz pulsing has more potential it seems because its a newer technology and also because, when using the lights at lower power, below X sync to do stop action.

    Here's a video worth watching.

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    Re: Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    PW, Elinchrom, etc. are using the "Hyper Sync model because they are trying to elevate the older voltage controlled power management approach to FP-sync. Godox, and Phottix are the only ones, to date, using IGBT technology and high Hz pulsing that was introduced with speedlites. Profoto as well come to think of it.

    The high Hz pulsing has more potential it seems because its a newer technology and also because, when using the lights at lower power, below X sync to do stop action.

    Here's a video worth watching.
    I believe that PCB uses IGBT in its Einstein line. In either case HSS nor TTL are available. Here's the press release in the Priolite Sony RC-HS controller. http://priolite.us/sony_hss
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