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Thread: Fun With Sony _____

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    I reshot the same scenes with DRO off and the difference in brightness is reduced but there is a definite color shift toward yellow in the JPGs compared to the RAW file and the RAW files look better and more closely match what the eye sees.
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    It appears that the Rayqual adapters will be available on the 9th for $210. I'm not sure it is worth that much more than the China made one. Any opinions? I could see a little more if it included electrical contacts with information and processing like the E to Alpha mount but for a pure mechanical mount it seems steep.
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    It appears that the Rayqual adapters will be available on the 9th for $210. I'm not sure it is worth that much more than the China made one. Any opinions? I could see a little more if it included electrical contacts with information and processing like the E to Alpha mount but for a pure mechanical mount it seems steep.
    Mine is this: Buy Sony DSLRs. Cheaper and more versatile.

    This adapter business (especially at these prices), I really do not understand it at all.

    RJ informs that he will be bringing out an Olympus Pen F adapter (besides the c, LTM and the M) and a 58mm lens reversing adapter for macros. Others have other adapters available at better prices.

    Given that the NEX' lack an EVF, I really can not understand why anyone would buy adapters at $210/system.

    The NEX-3/5 would make nice matches (in terms of compactness) with some of the c-mount lenses I have. Even a Leica M mount adapter plus lens is going to make it look big. Why bother with CaNiSony lenses plus adapters (unless one already have a whole range of lenses at their disposal)?

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    I have been conducting low light high ISO testing comparing against the Ricoh GXR A12. One thing is very evident and that is the low light metering is way off. It (NEX) will underexpose the images by a considerable amount. When exposures are matched the Sony outperforms the Ricoh at ISO 3200 by a small amount (1/2 to 1 stop). It is hard to be precise because LR gives slightly different results than Bibble. Bibble can't process DNGs and LR can't process Sony RAW. It is furthest off using multi, but even in spot it is off. I am talking about looking at the histograms as a basis for determining whether exposure is off though it is pretty evident to the eye. This metering issue changes in good light which is very frustrating. Could I have a defective camera? Has anyone else seen this?
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    I have been conducting low light high ISO testing comparing against the Ricoh GXR A12. One thing is very evident and that is the low light metering is way off. It (NEX) will underexpose the images by a considerable amount. When exposures are matched the Sony outperforms the Ricoh at ISO 3200 by a small amount (1/2 to 1 stop). It is hard to be precise because LR gives slightly different results than Bibble. Bibble can't process DNGs and LR can't process Sony RAW. It is furthest off using multi, but even in spot it is off. I am talking about looking at the histograms as a basis for determining whether exposure is off though it is pretty evident to the eye. This metering issue changes in good light which is very frustrating. Could I have a defective camera? Has anyone else seen this?
    John,
    My suggestion is to read through the review at DPReview. Not sure of your methodology but in their tests ISO 3200 is really about ISO 4000. There is also information on the metering. I'm not too worried about getting too technical on this stuff and just go by what I see as real world camera output to see if it works for me and how high in iSO I'm willing to go.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    I have been conducting low light high ISO testing comparing against the Ricoh GXR A12. One thing is very evident and that is the low light metering is way off. It (NEX) will underexpose the images by a considerable amount. When exposures are matched the Sony outperforms the Ricoh at ISO 3200 by a small amount (1/2 to 1 stop). It is hard to be precise because LR gives slightly different results than Bibble. Bibble can't process DNGs and LR can't process Sony RAW. It is furthest off using multi, but even in spot it is off. I am talking about looking at the histograms as a basis for determining whether exposure is off though it is pretty evident to the eye. This metering issue changes in good light which is very frustrating. Could I have a defective camera? Has anyone else seen this?
    If you could only keep one, which one had to go. GXR A12 or NEX 5. I understand, it's all about compromising in one way or the other. If Ricoh only had the 28mm equiv. module out

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The NEX-3/5 would make nice matches (in terms of compactness) with some of the c-mount lenses I have.
    The problem here is that few if any c-mount lenses are going to cover the larger sensor of the NEX series.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    The problem here is that few if any c-mount lenses are going to cover the larger sensor of the NEX series.
    I bought a (RJ) c-mount adapter. Monday, I am clearing out a few old gear.

    If all goes well next week (and before 20th after that I am on vacation for a few weeks), I will check it out quickly.

    A 25mm Fujinon-TV, SOM-Berthiot 25/0.95, Xenoplan 25/1.9, a GE 36mm f/1.1,
    others of longer FL are all excellent candidates in terms of coverage and compactness.

    With the Samsung NX10 it isn't possible to check for coverage at infinity but there are many promising candidates.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Will be interesting to see the results. Sure would be nice to use those lenses with a 1.5x crop, but the image circle is likely too small.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Handling these cams have swayed me.

    Incredibly tiny APS-C digi backs.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Handling these cams have swayed me.

    Incredibly tiny APS-C digi backs.
    So you are buying an NEX? Curious as to your thought on build quality (not optical) of the lenses. Metal outside plastic inside, metal mounts, feel great.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    I'm finding all this fascinating - clearly they've done a good thing with these.
    What's confusing me is my complete lack of desire for one (and I agree with Vivek, they handle really nicely).

    I think it's because of the fact that something has to be BIG for the quality to be good . . . and if something has to be big, why not just go for the A900?

    Still-keep 'em coming, loads of great pictures Terry - and the thing obviously does perform.

    all the best

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    I liked the way the Leica CL had both sets of lugs on one side and hung vertically rather than horizontally.
    CL body looks monstrous in comparison.


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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    NEX5 full kit (no body cap)


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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    CL body looks monstrous in comparison.

    But beautiful . . . . and much more compact with the lens!

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    The 40/2 should be pretty sweet on the NEX and compact, too.
    Last edited by monza; 6th July 2010 at 13:12.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Once the adapters get into the market (mine shipped today) I think this might become an interesting street camera as the tilting LCD allows you to keep it in closer to your body and still quickly focus. You can also use it as a waist level finder. I know the G1/2/GH1 have tilting screens but to tilt it needs to be out to the side. This is much lower profile. Never really considered the difference until using it.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Terry, I am seeing the opposite from DPR as what I am seeing more closely matches DXO's measurements of the sensor being less sensitive than its rating, not more. I will post a comprehensive analysis as soon as I have a little time.
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    What's confusing me is my complete lack of desire for one (and I agree with Vivek, they handle really nicely).

    I think it's because of the fact that something has to be BIG for the quality to be good . . . and if something has to be big, why not just go for the A900
    I really like what I've seen on this thread. Complements to you Terry, in your hands you seem to make the NEX sing.

    Jono not everything needs to be big for quality, point in hand would be the M9 & M lenses. But I do agree with you, I can't see myself having to learn a whole new method of holding and shooting a ZA / NEX combo. I'm not going to invest in another lens/camera either. Guess I'll just have to tough it out with a slightly heavy camera bag for the moment.
    A7II, FE 35, 55 C/Y 18, 28, 85, 100, 28-85

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Eoin View Post
    I really like what I've seen on this thread. Complements to you Terry, in your hands you seem to make the NEX sing.

    Jono not everything needs to be big for quality, point in hand would be the M9 & M lenses. But I do agree with you, I can't see myself having to learn a whole new method of holding and shooting a ZA / NEX combo. I'm not going to invest in another lens/camera either. Guess I'll just have to tough it out with a slightly heavy camera bag for the moment.
    Quite right . . . perhaps it's owning the m9 which is the only sensible reason for not wanting a NEX! (I can't think of another good one).

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    Terry, I am seeing the opposite from DPR as what I am seeing more closely matches DXO's measurements of the sensor being less sensitive than its rating, not more. I will post a comprehensive analysis as soon as I have a little time.
    There is a second section on the cameras metering in there that might help. Can't link to it right now but they did grey card tests to figure it out.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Eoin - I really do enjoy my m4/3 gear but it looks like I won't be taking it to Ireland. If my A900 has a problem my lenses are no longer a sac of dead weight. So, for NEX I will simply take the 16, 18-55, 50 lux, and the tiny CV35 color skopar - (if it works OK). Now that is a teeny kit.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Eoin - I really do enjoy my m4/3 gear but it looks like I won't be taking it to Ireland. If my A900 has a problem my lenses are no longer a sac of dead weight. So, for NEX I will simply take the 16, 18-55, 50 lux, and the tiny CV35 color skopar - (if it works OK). Now that is a teeny kit.
    True!, I guess that's why I have 2 x a900's, just in case. BTW, if you do run into such a problem when here you know where there is a couple of spares.
    A7II, FE 35, 55 C/Y 18, 28, 85, 100, 28-85

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    So you are buying an NEX? Curious as to your thought on build quality (not optical) of the lenses. Metal outside plastic inside, metal mounts, feel great.
    I might (in a few days) depending on funds or else it will be later. The build is nice.

    On the swivel TFT of G1 vs the half tilt of the NEXs for street, there is no match at all. The G1 still rules! Incredible versatility there!

    Just like you, Terry, the compactness (especially taking to India) does figure in the equation besides the low light advantage (it gets very dark and very quickly in the tropics). I am weary of new batteries, software, handling (my hacked G1 is going with me for IR). Despite that, given the choice of 2 G1s or one G1 and a NEX-5 (the Samsung NX10 is out), it is a toss up.
    Last edited by Vivek; 6th July 2010 at 14:38.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    I prefer the style of the NEX LCD tilt over the swivel hinges, because you can shoot it like a waist level finder more comfortably, and that is how I plan on using the camera.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    I prefer the style of the NEX LCD tilt over the swivel hinges, because you can shoot it like a waist level finder more comfortably, and that is how I plan on using the camera.
    I have several thousands of street snaps with the G1s alone and I speak from actual experience.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    CL body looks monstrous in comparison.
    Being able to use a tiny 28mm lens successfully without any additional finder and being able to hold it comfortably makes the CL still attractive. The battery is tiny and last forever with the CL.

    Transporting film and dealing with scanning is the crummy part.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    I've used the same screen design with the low end Alpha DSLRs live view, and, as a former Hasselbald waist level user, I stick with my preference to the flip up and down design. It obviously isn't as versatile, but, since I'll be shooting a large majority of the time in psuedo-waist level finder mode, I prefer it. You can lock the camera right into the body, and everything is in line.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    I would not even dream of capturing something like that with the Sony half tilt LCDs (I am not that ambidextrous ).



    Panasonic G1, Oly-D 17/2.8 plus a Ricoh 0.75X converter.

    With square formats, I have enjoyed a few TLRs as well (and they all had shades around the GG).

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Vivek, I'm with Douglas on this one. The G1 screen works great and is incredibly versatile and always thought I would prefer that implementation. However, in using the NEX for the past two weeks I've grown fond of how the Sony hinge works and how you are looking straight down at the screen, which seems to work really well with the ergonomics of this camera and the manual focus in particular.

    Curious if when you were testing you pulled the hinge all the way out?

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Not to sound redundant, Terry, how can anyone make a portrait snap with the half tilt LCD?

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Not to sound redundant, Terry, how can anyone make a portrait snap with the half tilt LCD?
    Fair enough. I didn't realize you were speaking of the portrait orientation.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I would not even dream of capturing something like that with the Sony half tilt LCDs (I am not that ambidextrous ).



    Panasonic G1, Oly-D 17/2.8 plus a Ricoh 0.75X converter.

    With square formats, I have enjoyed a few TLRs as well (and they all had shades around the GG).
    Great shot!

    Of course, you are limited to landscape and square, but I've been known to shoot square only. We'll see

    Funny you should mention the GG shade. Ive been considering buying or making some kind of shade for NEX, if I do buy the camera.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears this shot was taken at eye level (more or less). How did the swivel screen help in this instance?


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I would not even dream of capturing something like that with the Sony half tilt LCDs (I am not that ambidextrous ).



    Panasonic G1, Oly-D 17/2.8 plus a Ricoh 0.75X converter.

    With square formats, I have enjoyed a few TLRs as well (and they all had shades around the GG).

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Douglas, Thanks.

    This one (camera over my head and the swivel LCD coming in handy for framing and focus) reminded of inverted TLR use.



    Panasonic G1, modified Fujinon-Tv 12.5mm f/1.4

    The swivel LCD and the EVF alone are worth the cash of a G1. Having said that, it is the unimaginative G2 of Pana with no improvements to the G1 sensor that has prompted me to look to others.

    Terry, I was saying "half tilt" because of the limited orientations the NEX LCD provides. Ever since the A350 (morphed to a better looking 380 with the flex cables all hidden or the latest avatar 390), I am quite aware of the tilt advantages and limits. Even Nikon's D5000 offers more degrees of freedom towards waist level use.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Agreed. I think the D5000 LCD looks to be the best of both worlds, but I've never used it.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Vivek, I'm not getting rid of my "G" any time soon. Even on the premise that there is no sensor improvement I do like the G2 better than the G1 for a couple of reasons. It didn't hurt that then upgrade only cost me $160 out of pocket cost.

    The changes in button/dial placement are very good
    The touch screen implementation is very nicely done and integrated in camera operation
    The one touch iA can come in quite handy. I never really use iA mode but sometimes when you pick up the camera and quickly want to get a shot and you aren't sure where you are set a quick touch of the button can be helpful.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Terry, how do you rate IQ for the NEX vs. G? I'm trying to get a better idea of what the Sony can do better than the Panny (I have the GF1). I love the compact nature of the GF1 with the 20/1.7 and am thinking that I would prefer the zoom with the Sony. Hmm, then I'm getting a bigger combo again.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Tom, right now m4/3 is a more developed system and the 20 mm and GF1 is a great. combo. The NEX may have better IQ (dynamic range and ISO) but at higher ISO's you have a big lens speed advantage with the f1.7 vs either a wide 2.8 or the kit zoom at f4 (at the equivalent focal length).

    I don't know how seriously I would have looked at the NEX if I didn't have my A900 kit and you couldn't adapt those lenses to the NEX bodies and retain aperture control.

    Last year when i went away I took a complete A900 kit and a complete m4/3 kit and nothing was interchangeable. This year I can take the A900 kit and small NEX kit and I can mount the big Zeiss lenses on the NEX if I'm working on the tripod.

    The thing is I like the NEX more than I thought I would. However, I'm not selling my M4/3 gear or advocating anyone go and do that. I will probably sell my E-PL1 as I do like the NEX and that is the odd man out.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Interesting thread this. I went to a big consumer electronics fair yesterday and tried out the NEX 5 with the 16mm. What a fun combo! It was rather dark at that part of the Sony stand, and the LCD went surprisingly dark as well, but I could well imagine this as a nice "walk-around-the-city-at-night" combo. Not very expensive either, at just over $700 here in Bangkok.

    But it's very point-and-shoot. The user interface reminds me more of a mobile phone than a camera, but that's probably the market they're after anyway. Should I end up buying this, it would be instead of a p&s, and possibly only with the 16mm. There's no way it could replace the GH1 for me, for many reasons mentioned in this thread already.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Jorgen - there are also auto and a sunlight settings for the LCD. Perhaps someone was playing with the camera settings. I find it holds up better (grain) than the Panny LCDs and just blows away the Oly LCD in low light..... Now for the definition of low light LOL.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Jorgen - there are also auto and a sunlight settings for the LCD. Perhaps someone was playing with the camera settings. I find it holds up better (grain) than the Panny LCDs and just blows away the Oly LCD in low light..... Now for the definition of low light LOL.
    I believe you. What the mentioned camera/lens combination would be absolutely perfect for, is all kinds of cityscapes, particularly at night. With the relatively fast WA lens and the good low-light performance of this camera, this can probably to a large extent be done hand-held. Add a small Gorilla Pod, and there are hardly any limits.

    And I just decided to halt all camera investments until... until I find a good reason to spend more

  43. #693
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Jorgen,
    Didn't mean to come off as defensive on the LCD. The achiles heel of the mirroless cameras is pre-dawn setting up for a shot with no way to focus when you can't see anything on the screen and you have no distance scale on the lens which o why I always try to have one manual lens in my kit.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quick and (very) dirty test of manual focus...with no lens attached (and the menu set to shoot without lens) the lower control button defaults to a manual focus assist (direct access button, no hunting thru menus, sweet.) Mag options are 7x and 14x. Took this with a Contax G 45/2 at f/2 held in front of the camera, no guarantees as to whether the lens bayonet was coplanar with the lens mount. 1/100s f/2 ISO 200 AWB.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears this shot was taken at eye level (more or less). How did the swivel screen help in this instance?
    That is the beauty of the G1 swivel screen. Incredibly versatile. You have to try to use it to experience it. Makes the cam feel part of you. (Also, please take note a wide angle ~25mm full frame equivalent lens is used for that capture)

    Most of my street shots are done using that for framing and focusing (when a manual focus lens is used).

    Mostly, I restrict myself using a few primes (Computar-TV 25/1.3, Oly-D 17 +Ricoh 0.75X, Pana 20/1.7 nowadays for IR) so that I "know" the distance for a given capture. Reading the light in advance helps and such matters. So, in the end, it is just a click at the right (anticipated) moment.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Interesting thread this. I went to a big consumer electronics fair yesterday and tried out the NEX 5 with the 16mm. What a fun combo! It was rather dark at that part of the Sony stand, and the LCD went surprisingly dark as well, but I could well imagine this as a nice "walk-around-the-city-at-night" combo. Not very expensive either, at just over $700 here in Bangkok.

    But it's very point-and-shoot. The user interface reminds me more of a mobile phone than a camera, but that's probably the market they're after anyway. Should I end up buying this, it would be instead of a p&s, and possibly only with the 16mm. There's no way it could replace the GH1 for me, for many reasons mentioned in this thread already.
    do you think it's possible to focus via live view with a manual lens stopped down to f/5.6?

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by ken_vs_ryu View Post
    do you think it's possible to focus via live view with a manual lens stopped down to f/5.6?
    Generally speaking, yes, if light is enough to shoot without flash, I think there is enough light do this. To simulate, just put the camera in manual focus mode and zoom the kit lens out to 55mm, which is f/5.6.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    A good friend of mine borrowed me a NEX-3 for a week. It took a while, but now I start loving to use the NEX HDR for B&W. The HDR provides soft nice color images with open shadows and hardly clipped highlights.

    Processing:

    1. HDR in camera (have still to find the optimal EV settings, likely 2-4 depending on the scene)

    2. Create Virtual Copy in Lightroom

    3. Some corrections for barrel distortions, rotate and crop

    4. Convert to B&W and tune tonality (slight warm Split Tones).

    These images are only processed in LR.





    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Wow Terry you are geared up
    Am amazed at the size of the Sony compared to the small PL1 it looks real cool.
    Would be so compact with a small fast prime and great IQ (NAPA) and (SF PArade)


    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Remember this is a public service. Any and all references to being a gear whore are wholly unappreciated.

    I will say it is very hard to translate the pictures to how these feel in hand. The Sony really does feel small even if the lens looks huge. The Hexanon lens on the GF1 is almost identical in size to the Panny kit lens not extended.







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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Yes, geared up is correct.....but gearing down is coming soon!

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