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Thread: Fun With Sony _____

  1. #801
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Another nob question from someone at the very steep end of the learning curve .......

    Plan A was to ignore raw and simply leave the camera on Fine. But now I've started to explore some of the raw images I've taken in the included Image Data Converter and then playing with the output in Elements 8 and it is gradually dawning on me (I'm a slow learner) how much more creative and how much more control the opportunities saving in raw format opens up.

    This has now made me think I should save in raw!

    What I'm struggling to understand is why and under what circumstances would someone save in both raw and fine jpg at the same time or indeed in jpg if one can control in raw?

    I'd appreciate some of the thoughts to consider when choosing.

    Thanks.

    Jeff

  2. #802
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Razii View Post
    Yes, in focus options, switch to the selectable focus area. Confirm the center focus. Now the shooting tips soft key is replaced by a focus key.
    Ah, but then I lose multipoint focusing :/

  3. #803
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    re: Fun With Sony _____

    Thanks sir

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by UK1 View Post
    What I'm struggling to understand is why and under what circumstances would someone save in both raw and fine jpg at the same time or indeed in jpg if one can control in raw?
    Well, each shooter might have his/her own reasons, but one example is for using the jpgs as quick reference.
    I shoot RAW + JPG and save the latter in my Aperture Library to always have an overview of all the photo's I took. Than I develop the keepers in CS5, DXO or Phocus, etc.

    Hope this helps

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by UK1 View Post
    What I'm struggling to understand is why and under what circumstances would someone save in both raw and fine jpg at the same time or indeed in jpg if one can control in raw?

    I'd appreciate some of the thoughts to consider when choosing.

    Thanks.

    Jeff
    I haven't played with the NEX in B&W yet but on the Panasonic cameras they have a film mode called dynamic B&W and does a really good job with rendering the scene and the tonality. When you shoot in this mode you also get B&W on the viewfinder. Shooting RAW + jpeg I get a full color RAW to work with and a B&W jpeg with everything I saw on the viewfinder.

    I will also shoot RAW + jpeg if I'm traveling, will want to send off some shots in an email and won't really have any computer time to work on the images. Or if I'm with friends and they will want the pictures and I won't want to "process" the ones that they want. This way I can just give them a CD of the jpegs.

    Other than that instance I generally just shoot raw because I find the process of making a jpeg is very quick in LR and I end up with less duplication on my computer hard drives.

  6. #806
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Many thanks for the guidance with respect to RAW. In fact the B&W creative mode on the NEX only saves in B&W for both raw and jpeg.

    Luckilly the system has lots of storage space and I've a few sdhc cards so I'll record everything in bgoth until I know more about what I'm doing.

    Thanks again for the time and guidance.

    Jeff

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    My Sony fisheye adapter arrived today. Not really impressed. Center seems OK but it deteriorates pretty noticeably. No need for anyone to rush out and get your hands on this.
    Exactly as I expected! Sony did not disappoint me at all.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Here is a quick screen shot of a comparison between the Leica M8 and Sony NEX with 40mm Cron. Not a scientific test as they were shot at different times with different lenses and Sony shot at ISO 400 and Leica shot at ISO 160. The Sony is the JPG from camera and the Leica is a DNG conversion.
    V/r John

  9. #809
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    Here is a quick screen shot of a comparison between the Leica M8 and Sony NEX with 40mm Cron. Not a scientific test as they were shot at different times with different lenses and Sony shot at ISO 400 and Leica shot at ISO 160. The Sony is the JPG from camera and the Leica is a DNG conversion.
    Dunno what to make of that picture, isn't there too many changed variables? Lighting, time, ISO, shutter speed, aperture, RAW, JPG etc.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Make of it what your eyes tell you. Disregard color and lighting and look at sharpness, image pop, etc. You can take other factors into consideration like ISO 400 vs ISO 160 and APS-H vs APS-C and see what appeals to you. For me, the Sony looks better. It has a clarity that is missing from the Leica M8 shot and the M8 had all the advantages. Larger sensor, raw conversion, better Leica lens, a LR 3 color profile, etc. This indicates to me that the Sony is out performing it with more obstacles to overcome. For you, it may be something else.
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Terry,

    I will be anxious to see your results with the CV and Leica lenses you have. Having just received the 16mm, the only good things I can say are it is small, light and very sharp in the center. Not quite Leica sharp but close.
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Minor detail. My adapters are on the slow boat from China. Missed the express shipping option when I paid for them. They were shipped the 7th so it could be another week plus of agony

  13. #813
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    John,
    Not sure what you mean when you say you are running out of space. In the gallery? Why do you post as screen shots and not save the image as a jpeg? I have no idea of how screen shots are saved and then repost in terms of quality.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    The screen shots are JPGs converted from PNGs on the Mac. When I do uploads using the advanced feature it limits me on attachments to 20mb. I haven't used the gallery feature yet. Not quite sure how to get to it and then use it in a post. I have run out of attachment space many times so I just go and delete the oldest ones which leaves older posts without the image that was originally part of the post. I thought there was going to be a way to pay and have greater space but I haven't seen that either. Maybe you would be so kind as to explain it all. I use screen shots because LR and Bibble 5 Pro let me do side by side comparisons on screen but I can't export that comparison (at least to my knowledge).

    Go ahead...
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    OK,
    Try this.
    Go to the top of the page on the left it says Gallery. Click on that. Then you will see over to the right where it says upload. Click that. You will see a screen that most forums use to upload. Pick your files and then scroll down to where it says category. That will give you a whole list to chose from. Just pick the Regular member. Once you've uploaded the shots you will be able to see each one and there will be two URLs at the bottom and chose the first url. Go back to the post and use the little landscape icon and past the url into that icon.

    Here are the more detailed instructions from your fearless leaders!

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54

  16. #816
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    re: Fun With Sony _____

    Very funny the fly with the flag.

    A gannet "Are you talking to me?"

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Thanks Terry.
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Well, I (part) traded in the NX10 kit for a NEX-5 kit (16/2.8) in boring black.

    No body cap or lens cap came with it.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Well, I (part) traded in the NX10 kit for a NEX-5 kit (16/2.8) in boring black.

    No body cap or lens cap came with it.
    I'm looking forward to this..seeing if Sony continues to live up to expectations

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Well, I (part) traded in the NX10 kit for a NEX-5 kit (16/2.8) in boring black.

    No body cap or lens cap came with it.
    Wot?
    I wait with baited breath

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I'm looking forward to this..seeing if Sony continues to live up to expectations
    Terry, Your Bay area pano, as I said earlier, did impress me.

    If a tiny camera package is capable of doing something like that so nicely and at ~ half the price of the 7-14 pana zoom lens alone the choice is clear.

    Jono, Despite the absent caps (which I was prepared for), I do like the camera strap that comes with it.

    For the first time, I find a camera strap that does not advertise for a camera company in indelible bright colors.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Terry, Your Bay area pano, as I said earlier, did impress me.

    If a tiny camera package is capable of doing something like that so nicely and at ~ half the price of the 7-14 pana zoom lens alone the choice is clear.

    Jono, Despite the absent caps (which I was prepared for), I do like the camera strap that comes with it.

    For the first time, I find a camera strap that does not advertise for a camera company in indelible bright colors.
    Well, the leica straps don't either
    I'll be really interested in your results.
    Just in case you wondered - I'm really interested in this camera - I liked the interface and the handling, the IQ, the build quality, the price and the 24mm lens too.
    What I didn't like was the kit lens, the lack of AF on the Sony lenses and the lack or RAW support in Aperture - which is enough to keep me away from warehouseexpress for the time being!
    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Vivek, I held my pen-f 38 f/1.9 (in the Pen-F to m4/3 adapter) up to the NEX5 and took a test shot with the lens wide open. It looked really promising. The 20 f/3.5 Pen-F may vignette. The proper adapter is coming soon.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Jono, Thanks. Will do (just a few more days before I take off, so...).

    Cindy, Yes, definitely! I will try to cobble something with the RJ c-mount adapter to fit the pen F lenses very soon. The 40/1.4 is a gem.

    Quickly, c-mount lenses...the 50/1.2 Fujinon-TV appears to do fine as does the 75/1.8. The 35/1.7 vignettes. My GE 36/1.1 also vignettes. no hope for anything lower.

    The battery really sucks. A power hog. I have to find some spares real quick.

    I did buy Sony's LCD plastic cover (PCK-LH1EM) along with the cam. This is really a must for any NEX owner and I highly recommend it!

    The cam as received has little IR sensitivity (only grainy deep red images) and surprisingly (very similar to) some UV sensitivity (tripod territory). Visible images appear sharp and bright with little noise at ISO1600.

    Jono, Yes, the interface isn't half as bad as it has been criticised. I still have not opened the manual and still could operate the cam to snap pics.

    Despite the absent EVF, I am happy to have exchanged the NX10. Manual focus is clearly easy and is a joy!

    Jono, Oh, yes! the Leica straps (I do have a few. )!

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Vivek, apparently the battery gets better after a couple of cycles but agree...spare is a must.

    The only thing I needed to go to the manual for was HDR. You need to go in an physically turn RAW capture off to make HDR a selectable option.

    Also - don't overlook on some choices the bottom button gives you additional options. For instance on bracketing or HDR when you are setting those the bottom button comes into play to adjust the amount (like the EV spread).

    Last hint on Panos - Change the direction to down and hold camera in portrait position for a wide view that isn't as narrow as the regular pano.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    On the battery, it seems to drop very quickly initially but the rate of decline decreases as the % goes down so the end result is more shots than you at first think you will get based on the rate of initial decline.
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    Jono, Oh, yes! the Leica straps (I do have a few. )!
    Funny about the Leica straps, I think they are the cheapest thing they make, but the design is really good, lightweight, strong, discrete, easy to fit (doesn't break your fingernails) . . . . .and what does everyone do? swap them for expensive leather ones!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Vivek, I held my pen-f 38 f/1.9 (in the Pen-F to m4/3 adapter) up to the NEX5 and took a test shot with the lens wide open. It looked really promising. The 20 f/3.5 Pen-F may vignette. The proper adapter is coming soon.
    i've been using the the pen f 42mm you sold me on the NEX 3 for a couple days and i'm really liking it. thanks again.

    i haven't used the camera strap at all (looking to get a wrist strap) but i am also a big fan of it's lack of gratuitous brand labeling.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    I think I will buy a few of these (NEXs) next month or thereafter, especially when some promo comes (hopefully, Sony will make bodycaps and lens rear caps by then or someone from PRC would make them).

    Terrific sensor!

    I have to check if Panorama can be done at all with manual focus lenses!
    (Any idea, anyone?)

    Oddly, surprisingly, even with manual lenses mounted, the face recognition still works!

    Metering is just fine.

    I will look for another battery (79 Euros!!!). I am not confident with this single one. Even when it shows 1% power, the camera works (barely) but I don't like to shoot with such low power with any digicam.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I have to check if Panorama can be done at all with manual focus lenses!
    (Any idea, anyone?)
    just tried it out and panorama appears to work with manual lenses . looks fine in playback haven't looked at the file on my computer.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Thanks, sebboh. I will play around with that later.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    I am yet to play around with the cam's settings. I am glad that RJ shipped the c-mount adapter quickly (which was the tipping point for the NEX purchase!).
    I could hold the pen F lenses inside the c-mount. A permanent adapter solution is in the works.

    Here a few casual snaps indoors.



    NEX-5, Olympus pen F 40/1.4 @1.4, ISO800, 1/160s



    NEX-5, Fujinon-TV 50/1.2 @1.2, ISO800, 1/400s



    NEX-5, Olympus pen F 42/1.2 @1.2, ISO200, 1/400s

    100% crop (lighting was difficult and the lens was not firmly secured)



    These were converted by Sony RAW (very basic), Tiff files adjusted ever so slightly for contrast, resized and slight sharpening for web.

    This sensor (I don't know if I can bring myself to calling the NEX a camera, yet) needs good lenses.

    I made ~2 snaps with the 16/2.8. I did not even bother to look at it again. Sony did not disappoint at all.


    Doesn't Zeiss make lenses for Sony???????
    Last edited by Vivek; 15th July 2010 at 15:21. Reason: pen F 42/1.2

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Splendid Vivek . . .not sure that the (your?) lad is so keen in the second shot though!
    all the best

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    The 16/2.8 focuses even quieter than any manual focus lenses I tried. Clearly, this one is made for videos (I have not pressed the video button yet). If it isn't for the focus points in the display I would not have been aware that the lens was auto focusing. A real shame.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Splendid Vivek . . .not sure that the (your?) lad is so keen in the second shot though!
    all the best
    Thanks, Jono.

    He has a Lumix (FP-2) so he is kind of OK, for now.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Vivek, surprisingly clear and sharp images for hand holding the thing together. Really nice portrait on second shot of boy (your son?). I like the rendition.
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Vivek, Very nice. The second portrait is my favorite.

    Sebboh, I'm glad that you are enjoying the 42 f/1.2. It is a beautiful lens.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    John, Thanks. Yes and he knows what he was posing for.

    Those with old lenses (Olympus Pen F and Leica in particular because of the compactness and the clarity they offer) would be able to make good use of these sensors, I think.

    The pen F lenses, though just held in front, were fairly well placed inside c-mount and the fast shutter speeds do some justice.

    I am pleasantly surprised at the DR, low noise the NEX is capable of. Especially compared to the NX10. Simply awesome.

    The colors, I will have to work with these later to come to a more acceptable set. But they are very close.

    Unlike, the m4/3rds (G1), the fuzz is less with the NEX and the bokeh is less "dreamy" (I like it).

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Cindy, Thanks. I now suspect that your 20/3.5 also is also going to be A OK.

    The 25/2.8 appears to be not bothered by its original hood at all. Whatever vignetting I saw earlier with the NX10 may be due to incorrect orientation!

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Vivek - nice to see you "smile" again.

    Surprising things can come in small packages.

    These look good

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Thanks, lady!

    (I smiled with my wallet for the NEX. I gave it a go at the NX10, did not work out. No worries. )

    Terry, I have a specific use in mind for the NEX-5. Panos in India. I have a few days to sort out my pen F adapter and practice a few basics with pano shooting.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    My advise on panos is to shoot multiples as it is sometimes hard to tell when there is a stitching problem.
    Also, these camera with rapid fire panos, hdr etc are going to be interesting on the resale market when people say "how many shutter actuations"

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Intersting thread I'm keeping my eye on.


    28 Elmarit on NEX 5

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=35811489

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Very true, Terry! The shutter in the NEX-5 is a surprise. Though very audible, it sounds "smooth". I hope it will not break down within 2 years (that is the warranty period here!). I also worry about the flex cable connected to the LCD. Unlike the A350/380/395/395&1/2, here the LCD is the lifeline.....

    I attached a Rodenstock UV/IR cut filter on the 16/2.8. This is similar to the Schneider UV/IR cut filter and is stronger than the Leica UV/IR cut filter. It seems to improve the contrast a bit. As I mentioned earlier, the NEX-5 sensor shows some UV response. This will not cause (color) problems associated with the Leica M8 as the IR response is virtually zero. However, an UV/IR cut filter, I would prefer to use on all lenses on the NEX-5 for improved contrast.

    The 16/2.8 is OK when stopped down to f/5 thereabouts. Not bad considering it is a wide.

    My old B+W metal hood (49mm) that I use with my Pana 20/1.7 for IR also seems to match quite well with the Sony 16/2.8. I also have a few Olympus metal shades in 49mm- they will also do alright.

    An old, generic (most likely Russian), rear lens cap for Nikon F fits the Sony 16/2.8 (but not the original Nikon rear cap!). So, that is sorted out for now.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Intersting thread I'm keeping my eye on.


    28 Elmarit on NEX 5

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=35811489

    These photos make me very hopeful that my Zeiss 25 f/2.8-M will be a winner on the NEX. I also have the CV 28 f/1.9 that was nice on the micro 4/3 cams and should be good on the NEX.

  46. #846
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Those 28 Elmarit shots on the NEX 5 are impressive. It is looking more and more to me like the NEX 5 is the compact that Leica should have come out with. Compatible with older lenses and they could have come out with a new AF line of lenses. The quality of the sensor is better than the X1's in terms of resolution, DR and high ISO noise. It also has a faster refresh rate allowing for faster AF and faster performance in general plus the much better LCD. With true manual lenses the UI is pretty simple with the scroll wheel to set shutter speed and the aperture set on the lens.
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Barjohn, How would you compare the NEX 5 to the GXR/A12?

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    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    I still need to do more tests but here is my current impression.

    1. The lens on the GXR-A12 is close in performance to the Leica 40/2 It is a very good lens.
    2. The sensor is close to the NEX but the NEX has better DR and is faster on refresh allowing for better performance in AF and movie modes.
    3. The JPG color on the GXR is a little better mostly due to better AWB (more accurate) in difficult lighting
    4. The metering is easier to use on the GXR (seems more forgiving)
    5. The other modules are not in the same league on the GXR so you are limited to 33 mm for now on GXR
    6. GXR uses DNG for RAW (I wish Sony would have)
    7. GXR can not shoot as fast and the buffer is more limited (slower & smaller)
    8. Ricoh may be batter than Sony about providing firmware updates
    9. GXR battery life seems better (perception, not measures)
    10. Interchangeable lenses on NEX are a big +++
    11. Fast AF on Nex slow and jumpy AF on GXR
    12. GXR has an EVF though one can operate in sunny mode with NEX, still would like an EVF
    13. Build quality on both is very good with Ricoh feeling a little more solid
    14. UI is still a bit better on the Ricoh but it isn't the margin one would think

    I'll write up a better more detailed comparison when I have a little more time.
    V/r John

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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    For me shooting over the head with the nEX-5 is a big plus:
    Uwe Steinmueller
    -------------------

    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Thanks John! I still have a healthy respect for the GXR/A12. I've tried a few other compacts recently, though not the Sony NEX, and I keep returning to the GXR. It just needs a wider A12, and I hope the promised 28mm A12 comes soon enough this fall.

    The panoramic feature of the NEX is interesting to me as I like shooting B&W panoramics. And if the NEX dynamic range is better than the GXR then that is interesting to me as well. The A12 dynamic range is already very good.

    I've heard from Sony DSLR users that Sony is not responsive to customer's requests for firmware fixes and enhancements. And I'm not convinced that Sony would commit to a more serious oriented NEX camera akin to the A850/A900 DSLRs with high quality glass. Still, it would be compelling to have Zeiss develop a few stellar lenses for the NEX line. I know that adapters can be used with m-mount lenses, but with these APS-C compacts I hope to someday see more native mount lenses (primes) at standard 35mm equiv focal lengths so that I can, for example, end up with a high quality true 21mm or 28mm or 35mm lens. I digress...

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