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Thread: Fun With Sony _____

  1. #1401
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    re: Fun With Sony _____

    Quote Originally Posted by ecsh View Post
    Bring up the pic you want on Flickr. Then above the pic is the Share this drop down menu. There you can grab the link or the HTML, copy and paste here.
    Hmm, didn't work for me.

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    re: Fun With Sony _____


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    re: Fun With Sony _____


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    re: Fun With Sony _____

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill_Green View Post
    Absolutely stunning! I love it!
    α900+VG|F20|2xF58|16-35,24-70,135Z|STF|70-400G|50,85 1.4|16,20,28,100M,80-200APO f/2.8|28-135|500f/8|1x-3xMacro|2xMFC-1000|Tiltall+RRS, Bellows, etc.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Lux 50 F2.8


    Crop 100%
    Leica M9 | SE 18 | Lux 24 | Lux 50 | ZM 35 | Nikon D700 | 35/1.8 | 45 PC-E | 50/1.4 | 70-200 VR II | SB 800+600 |SF 58|

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Now was this critter inside or outside? Excellent with the shadow and highlights.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    this critter is inside my house! hhahahahhaa
    I like it, he eats mosquitoes !!
    Leica M9 | SE 18 | Lux 24 | Lux 50 | ZM 35 | Nikon D700 | 35/1.8 | 45 PC-E | 50/1.4 | 70-200 VR II | SB 800+600 |SF 58|

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Lux 50 F2.8

    Very nice deepdiver!

    MG

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....


    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    Nex-5, 40/2.8 APO Componon, handheld macro (~1.5X magnification), ISO3200, 1/250s

    EDit; That was APO Makro Componon 40/2.8
    Last edited by Vivek; 27th August 2010 at 07:22.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Vivek, Very nice!!!!

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    re: Fun With Sony _____

    Quote Originally Posted by LoSenior View Post
    MG,

    Great capture and exposure.
    It's always great to see what the ZA 135 can do.

    Jerry
    Jerry,

    Thank you! Yes, indeed, it's an exceptional lens.

    MG

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Jim, While I appreciate your kind words (Thanks! ), I must point out that I am not happy with the image.

    I adjusted the noise levels manually. The auto noise reduction while it gave a "clean" frame was completely devoid of details.

    Even here, the details are lacking. This is entirely because of the NEX sensor and not from the lens.

    I will have to check this out further.....

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    panorama with NEX5 + Samyang 14mm


    pano (stitch) with 2x picture Samyang 14mm


    1x picture Samyang 8mm

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Jim, While I appreciate your kind words (Thanks! ), I must point out that I am not happy with the image.

    I adjusted the noise levels manually. The auto noise reduction while it gave a "clean" frame was completely devoid of details.

    Even here, the details are lacking. This is entirely because of the NEX sensor and not from the lens.

    I will have to check this out further.....
    Nice shot, Vivek. Interesting about the NEX sensor. Nearly everywhere I read tends to show that the NEX-5 has the most detail from an APS-C Sony yet, and there is even occasional moire, which could mean a very weak AA filter, no? Which raw converter did you use?

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Douglas, Thanks.

    That (weak AA and moire mush) is a possibility. The lens was not stopped down much (~f/4-5.6). I still can not rule out shake despite the apparent high shutter speed. That is why I am not sure of the source for the lack of details at the moment.


    The high ISO sensitivity of the NEX sensor is really impressive.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    I just ran across these two threads which you might find interesting.

    http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/...hp?f=49&t=4380
    http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/...hp?f=49&t=4419

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Well, Douglas, that sure was in interesting read.

    Especially this quote: ...more evidence to me that if you want to maximize quality, use RAW...


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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    I just ran across these two threads which you might find interesting.

    http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/...hp?f=49&t=4380
    I think that guy may have a point. As of now (after several snaps), I would be very hesitant to use the NEX sensor for macros with any of my lenses.

    Even the Tominons are a bit too much for the NEX sensor.

    I will just use it for what it is: take it everywhere tiny digital snap back. No more!

    Really sad that there is no competition for the m4/3rds in the mirrorless cam arena.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Vivek, I am confused and failing to follow this thread. What is it that the camera sensor can't do? I don't have a macro lens but with the 40/2 I can capture extremely fine detail without moire at close range (up to lens distance limit).
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    John, "Extremely fine details"? I have a sample of that very same lens and I know how it behaves (I do not have a Leica M adapter for the NEX sensor)

    I tried a few lenses with known resolutions (the Zeiss Luminars, for example resolve >200 lp/mm) they give strange results. The same lenses provide outstanding details when using a Panasonic G1 or even the Sony sensored Nikon D300. Also check out the SOM-Berthiot 25/0.95 example I posted earlier in this thread.

    Heck, even the hacked G1 with no AA/UV/IR filter stack does not produce such mush. So, it is possible to take care of aliasing even in the absence of an anti-aliasing filter.

    I hope Sony would issue a firmware update to fix the nuisance.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Do I understand you to think it is a firmware issue? It seemed like some speculated about issues due to AA filter spacing, etc. If it is a firmware issue how is it manifesting itself in RAW images? Is it the demosaicing (not sure of spelling here) algorithm?
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Can you post a shot taken with G1 and NEX of same object so we can see the difference you are talking about and maybe make the RAW images available for us to try our hand with different converters.
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    Can you post a shot taken with G1 and NEX of same object so we can see the difference you are talking about and maybe make the RAW images available for us to try our hand with different converters.
    I will do the first part (you can already see the mush from the NEX/ SOM-Berthiot shot in this thread. Just imagine the fuzzy areas being sharp when the images are taken with a G1. If still in doubt, check out my images posted in the 4/3rds forum). Sorry, I do not share any large images and certainly no RAW files with anyone.

    I have no idea if it is a hardware problem or a software fix is possible. All I do know is that the NEX is not all that useful, as is.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    That (weak AA and moire mush) is a possibility.
    Moire is a consequence of weak (or no) AA filter. Obviously, it does not manifest itself in all pictures and only in portions of the picture with repeating patterns....like in the stadium picture referenced in the other thread. Fabrics (with fine lines etc) are another area where one can see moire readily. And removing moire after the fact is simply not possible.

    The upside from a weak AA filter is natively sharp(er) pictures than ones with strong AA filtering. Pick your poison.
    A900 with a few lenses, flashes etc.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    The problem is lack of sharpness and that comes from aliasing.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    I'm confused by this. Everyone is saying that the NEX has more resolution than its predecessor Exmor cameras, and the aa filter is relatively weak. Are you saying the opposite, Vivek?

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Your sorrows I wish to have ...

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The problem is lack of sharpness and that comes from aliasing.
    "Lack of sharpness" from having a weak AA filter is a new one for me ! I would have expected the exact opposite to have taken place. Aliasing results in moire when encountering repeating patterns and that is about it. If anything, not having a thick AA filter would result in sharper images, at the expense of moire in conditions that make it visible.

    I think you are confusing the optical problems encountered when pairing these lenses with the NEX sensor and associating that with "aliasing".

    I will take a few pictures with my A-mount lenses (Carl Zeiss etc) and do a comparison with the kit lens and see what comes up. Without even going through with the test, I can say that the A-mount CZ lenses will reveal the full potential of the sensor, unlike the cheap kit lenses that come paired with the NEX5 and/or taking images with hit-or-miss RF lenses. Aliasing has got nothing to do with lack of sharpness, as far as I know.
    A900 with a few lenses, flashes etc.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    VIVEK,

    I can't figure out what you are saying unless it is lens related. Below is a side by side comparison shot from a tripod, same distance from subject with 18-55 and 40/2.



    Now here is a 100% close up of center of image showing the difference between lenses. Lighting and everything else was the same other than the 40/2 was shot at f2.8 so shutter speeds are different.



    These were converted in LR 3.2 RC with default sharpening at 25.
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by roweraay View Post
    Aliasing results in moire when encountering repeating patterns and that is about it. If anything, not having a thick AA filter would result in sharper images, at the expense of moire in conditions that make it visible.
    Do you see that part as contradictory?

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    That makes perfect sense to me and does not seem contradictory. An AA filter introduces optical blur. It is the whole reason the M8 and M9 can claim to produce sharper images than many DSLRs. The cost for the additional pixel sharpness (contrast) is that moire can become evident with repeating patterns.
    V/r John

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    John, Thanks for your test shots.

    Let us recap what is being discussed and what the source is- a hand held macro shot with a known performer was lacking in details. I did say (in response to Douglas) that I will have to check if my set up was stable (shake) despite the high shutter speed. Douglas quoted a thread from elsewhere that does address one possibility. Demoscaing (that Douglas pointed) is one.

    DRO is a definite contributor.

    Noise reduction (at high ISO) that goes on in camera is another (anyone knows if that can be switched off completely?).

    Moire is an optical blur (blemish if you wish to call that).

    Bees and flies do have lots of fine structures.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Do you see that part as contradictory?
    Yes, I very well do.

    "Sharper Images" when Moire is absent (which accounts for a majority of images where repeating patterns are not very prevalent) and even in Moire affected images, the portions of the image (without closely repeating patterns) that are unaffected by moire, will be sharper with a weak AA filter than with a thick AA filter.

    "Moire" and "sharpness" are not related. The Leica M9, with an absent AA filter, is never considered as "unsharp" due to being affected by Moire.
    A900 with a few lenses, flashes etc.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by roweraay View Post
    Yes, I very well do.

    "Sharper Images" when Moire is absent (which accounts for a majority of images where repeating patterns are not very prevalent) and even in Moire affected images, the portions of the image (without closely repeating patterns) that are unaffected by moire, will be sharper with a weak AA filter than with a thick AA filter.

    "Moire" and "sharpness" are not related. The Leica M9, with an absent AA filter, is never considered as "unsharp" due to being affected by Moire.


    Well, I do not think we disagree.

    The example you quote results in "too sharp" images and not "unsharp"..

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    John, Thanks for your test shots.

    Let us recap what is being discussed and what the source is- a hand held macro shot with a known performer was lacking in details. I did say (in response to Douglas) that I will have to check if my set up was stable (shake) despite the high shutter speed. Douglas quoted a thread from elsewhere that does address one possibility. Demoscaing (that Douglas pointed) is one.

    DRO is a definite contributor.

    Noise reduction (at high ISO) that goes on in camera is another (anyone knows if that can be switched off completely?).

    Moire is an optical blur (blemish if you wish to call that).

    Bees and flies do have lots of fine structures.
    Vivek and Roweray,

    Moire is not an optical blur, but an interference pattern. It does result in loss of details. It has nothing to do with sharpness but rather amount of detail present in the picture. In digital domain, it happens on account of sampling below the Nyquist frequency (or undersampling) for that particular SUBJECT. Typically a low pass filter is used to eliminate the interference (this can be done by optical or digital filters, principal is the same, optical ones also reduce the light to sensors, digital ones result in floating point errors on account of not enough precision being used in computing the transform).

    On subject of NEX-5 having loss of details on macro lenses, i have not yet observed it. I am also puzzled by BarJohn's results so i tried a quick test wit kit lens and 50 macro both at 50mm, f8. FOV is a bit different as expected for different focusing elements. My kit lens certainly does not show distortion anywhere close to his.







    Kit lens seems to a bit of sample variation.

    Cheers,

    N
    A and E mount Too many lenses.

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    N,

    Interference -> lack of details -> this I equate to mush (or "unsharp" or "too sharp").

    Yes, personally I am quite familiar with Moire (I used to image rows of atoms and such elementary things using electron microscopes), even before I took up digital photography.

    Your definitions and explanations (of moire) are succinct.

    On John's test images (here and in other threads), his kitzoom appears to be problematic indeed.

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    re: Fun With Sony _____

    a900 with Sigma 70 mm macro.


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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Based on the feedback here and my testing I am sending it back to Sony for replacement. It definitely is not even close to the 40/2. I ran additional tests at 18mm, 24mm, 28mm, 35mm and 55mm at f8, f5.6 and f4.5 and I find the lens is sharpest at 18mm and terrible at 55mm. The changing of the f stop did not make a significant difference.
    V/r John

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    re: Fun With Sony _____

    Great shots guys
    Dave. Love the Monterey shots
    MG the spooky skull works well
    Bill the little girl shot is splendid
    Bill. The spider shot really sparkles. I hadn't thoughtnof the sigma macro. What is the focusing like?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    John, Thanks for your test shots.

    Let us recap what is being discussed and what the source is- a hand held macro shot with a known performer was lacking in details. I did say (in response to Douglas) that I will have to check if my set up was stable (shake) despite the high shutter speed. Douglas quoted a thread from elsewhere that does address one possibility. Demoscaing (that Douglas pointed) is one.

    DRO is a definite contributor.

    Noise reduction (at high ISO) that goes on in camera is another (anyone knows if that can be switched off completely?).

    Moire is an optical blur (blemish if you wish to call that).

    Bees and flies do have lots of fine structures.
    Is that it?

    Man, you guys are discussing this as if you just spend 40.000 on a 60 MP Phase back, Alpa 12 SWA (Rosewood) and some Schneider glass and now you're getting 'mushy' results.

    The last ten or so comments above make it sound like the NEX is a seriously flawed camera. It's a 650 APC point 'n shoot for crying out loud.

    As I tried to make clear in response to Douglas' links to the Alphamount guys, my personal opinion is that there's far too much pixel peeping going on with the NEX. Now don't get me wrong, I find this technical stuff intriguing, but I just don't think these questions and often cryptic answers belong in a thread called 'Fun with...'

    Me, I'm enjoying my NEX 5 more and more as just that. A fun point and shoot with good enough results for prints up to 30 x45 cm if by chance there's something worthwhile between the daily snaps.
    Shoot first, think later. To me that is a very welcome alternative to my Leica MP, M7 and serious a900 work.

    Kind regards,

    Peter

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Just to come back to the original topic here - I am having lots of fun with my NEX5! And even looking closer into the results I must say it is one of the best (if not the best) point and shoot out there today.

    For serious stuff I am using my H3D39 as well as my D700.

    Nothing to add!

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    The last two posts (PeterV and Ptomsu) just reiterate what I already said.

    "Not for serious work".

    Post some of your P&S results.

    Here is one of mine:


    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    Piper nigrum larger than life size using NEX-5
    Last edited by Vivek; 29th August 2010 at 02:41.

  43. #1443
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Just to come back to the original topic here - I am having lots of fun with my NEX5! And even looking closer into the results I must say it is one of the best (if not the best) point and shoot out there today.

    For serious stuff I am using my H3D39 as well as my D700.

    Nothing to add!
    I shot the NEX side by side with my A900 in Ireland. I was within 40 shots of each other in use. In some cases I shot the NEX with my Zeiss zooms. Here are some of my Ireland shots that have made the cut to keepers to put in a book I'm making...these aren't final edits just working copies but I certainly put the NEX above P&S status. (Sorry to people who have seen these already)

    Attachment 34749

    Attachment 34750

    Attachment 34746

    Attachment 34747

    Attachment 34745

    Attachment 34748

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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    I agree totally Terry ....... ESP with good 3rd party glass.

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    re: Fun With Sony _____

    HI There

    I'm so Handsome


    . . . . but don't look behind Caspar . . . .

    Oh !





    All with the A900 and the Zeiss 24-70

    . . . .and yes, we did get wet . . . very wet!
    Last edited by jonoslack; 29th August 2010 at 06:34.

    Just this guy you know

  46. #1446
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    re: Fun With Sony _____

    Isobel:




    wears pink shoes:



    A900 with Zeiss 135 f1.8.

    Really . . . . why would one use anything else!

    Just this guy you know

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    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Yep, there is nothing point and shoot about my NEX. I always shoot it in M mode with manual focus, so I'd say it's less point and shoot than my A900! Size is the distinguishing factor for me.

  48. #1448
    GaryW
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    John, Thanks for your test shots.

    Let us recap what is being discussed and what the source is- a hand held macro shot with a known performer was lacking in details. I did say (in response to Douglas) that I will have to check if my set up was stable (shake) despite the high shutter speed. Douglas quoted a thread from elsewhere that does address one possibility. Demoscaing (that Douglas pointed) is one.
    ....

    Bees and flies do have lots of fine structures.
    Yes they do.



    That's a 100% crop from a Minolta 50/1.7 @ f3.2, which is not a macro lens, so I couldn't get too close. I can see very fine hairs. Maybe it would have been better stepped down a bit more, but I find bees to be a tough subject, being always in motion. Anyway, it seems sufficient detail to me.

  49. #1449
    Super Duper
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryW View Post
    Anyway, it seems sufficient detail to me.

    Gary, Welcome to the site. As long as you are satisfied with what you use, you will certainly use it often.

  50. #1450
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    Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

    for the discussion of fine detail here's a couple 100% crops from the NEX that i believe i posted in another discussion:




    you can see a touch of moire in the bee. i'm sure there are cameras that can produce sharper images (the m9, D3x and A900 come to mind) but i don't think i'll be at all concerned about printing large with this camera.

    and in keeping with the thread title some fun images:
    olympus pen f 38mm f/1.8 wide open:




    olympus pen f 42mm f/1.2 wide open:






    one with 16mm pancake @f/11:
    (it seems i have dust on my sensor i didn't notice till now )


    one from the rokkor MD 24mm f/2.8 wide open:

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