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Fun With Sony Cameras

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wayne_s

New member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

The annoying part isn't that you can't do an HDR RAW it is simply that you have to go into the menu and change your RAW or RAW + jpeg to just jpeg. Conversly when shooting a Pano even though the camera only gives you jpeg if you have RAW set it doesn't make you go into the menus and change it. Changing the setting to HDR should automatically signal the camera that it is jpeg only. Once out of HDR mode it should default back to your normal setting.

That being said what would be best is instead of the camera giving you back the middle exposure as a jpeg, and the HDR the middle exposure as a RAW and the resulting three shot HDR jpeg would be ideal.
Sounds excellent! We nominate you to be the chief NEX interface guru/architect! :)
Maybe you could whip these Sony designers into line like you did the Apple Aperture folks.
Only 2/3 max EV on the bracketing. WTF! Luckily the camera has good DR.
 

Cindy Flood

Super Moderator
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

These were taken with HDR jpeg. I had no control over sharpening.
NEX-5 and Contax 35 f/2

w/o




Terry is absolutely correct about how HDR should work.
 
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Terry

New member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Uwe gets credit on ideas for HDR. He has used and experimented with it the most (and has fabulous results!) We just happened to have discussed ways it could be implemented.
 

sebboh

New member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Sebboh,
Thanks! Pls. post more shots processed through Aperture.
Although hard to tell with the lighting in these shots but it looks like all the fine detail smearing that I have been seeing done by the camera jpeg engine is gone and looks much better. Can you post an image taken with RAW and Jpeg and show the difference between the two?

alright, i took a couple of old shots that were stopped down a bit and converted them in aperture using the default settings plus a sharpening radius of .38 and sharpening intensity of .8 (whatever that means). comparing them directly to the straight out of camera jpegs there is definitely more detail in the raw files but the ooc jpegs aren't as bad as i thought. i think most of the loss of detail is actually due to local contrast enhancement which should actually make the images look sharper when downsized. anyway, here are the photos - judge for yourself:

the first image was taken at f/2.8 on the olympus 42mm f/1.2 so it might not be the lens' maximum sharpness but it is a good subject for a resolution test, a shot of extremely fine hairs.
uncropped image:


and the crops:

aperture export on the left, ooc jpeg on the right.

this next image was taken with the canon FL 55mm f/1.2 at f/8 or maybe f/5.6 where i know it is extremely sharp.
uncropped image of my first slr (which clearly needs a cleaning):


and the crops:

again aperture export on the left, ooc jpeg on the right.

somehow uploading these onto flickr seems to have added a few jpeg artifacts and softened them a bit, but you get the idea. to me the ooc jpegs have a plasticky kind of look to them. the raw files are plenty sharp for me. in any event, the lack of fine detail you are seeing in many of the posted pictures is most likely largely due to poor downsizing. it is absolutely impossible to judge sharpness (resolution) from web sized images so i wouldn't worry to much about what you see if it's not a 100% crop. i have seen a very interesting example of two shots taken with the same lens, one in focus the other slightly out of focus. when downsized no one could tell them apart. the usual review sites have tested the NEX's resolution (i'm sure doing a much better job then i) and found it to be (not surprisingly) marginally better than all the 12mp dslrs and marginally worse than the 18mp canon.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Hi there
Great examples, but on my iPad it's coming out with one shot above tag other, not right and left. Bottom ones aperture?
 

sebboh

New member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Hi there
Great examples, but on my iPad it's coming out with one shot above tag other, not right and left. Bottom ones aperture?
nope, top one's aperture if they don't come out next to each other. i probably should have boosted the definition (clarity slider) on the aperture ones to match the local contrast of the jpegs. as it is, the jpegs have more pop while the raw crops show more fine detail (more individual hairs in the bee). note: the crops are between 500 and 550 pixels in width - make sure you are actually viewing them at 100%. any downsizing will make the jpegs look sharper i suspect.
 

roweraay

New member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

alright, i took a couple of old shots that were stopped down a bit and converted them in aperture using the default settings plus a sharpening radius of .38 and sharpening intensity of .8 (whatever that means). comparing them directly to the straight out of camera jpegs there is definitely more detail in the raw files but the ooc jpegs aren't as bad as i thought. i think most of the loss of detail is actually due to local contrast enhancement which should actually make the images look sharper when downsized. anyway, here are the photos - judge for yourself:.....
To be quite honest, at these web sizes, I personally don't see any meaningful difference between the RAW processed versions and the OOC Jpeg. I intend to do my own testing, as soon as someone like DXO starts supporting RAW for the NEX.

I use DXO and find their underlying RAW processing engine to be top-notch and when coupled with their lens-camera distortion correction modules, should be a good baseline to see how much more information can be extracted out of the RAW (vis-a-vis the in-camera Jpeg).
 

douglasf13

New member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Yeah, these jpegs don't look too bad compared to Aperture.

DXO shouldn't do much more in terms of detail vs. Aperture. If you really want to see detail, try RPP or RT.
 

wayne_s

New member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Sebboh,

Thanks, for taking the time to do all this. I am surprised that there is not more difference.
These pictures all are nice and sharp without the film I see over other NEX5 shots I have seen posted elsewhere.
I see that these shots were taken at ISO 200 and so I was wondering if some of the lack of sharpness scene in other shots posted elsewhere is due to the majority of them being indoor low-light cases which are probably using ISO 800 or 1600. I am wondering if the jpeg engine has an agressive NR algorithm which is killing the detail at high iso.
If you could provide a jpeg vs. RAW crop at high iso, say 800 or 1600, it would be interesting to see if that is what is happening.
 

sebboh

New member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Sebboh,

Thanks, for taking the time to do all this. I am surprised that there is not more difference.
These pictures all are nice and sharp without the film I see over other NEX5 shots I have seen posted elsewhere.
I see that these shots were taken at ISO 200 and so I was wondering if some of the lack of sharpness scene in other shots posted elsewhere is due to the majority of them being indoor low-light cases which are probably using ISO 800 or 1600. I am wondering if the jpeg engine has an agressive NR algorithm which is killing the detail at high iso.
If you could provide a jpeg vs. RAW crop at high iso, say 800 or 1600, it would be interesting to see if that is what is happening.
i suspect you are right about the aggressive noise filter but i doubt that's the reason for the film you are seeing. i suspect that is due to poor downsizing algorithms or excessive compression. even if the noise reduction just averaged every four pixel group to the same value it would still be easy to make the resulting image look sharp at 1024 pixels in length.
 

Terry

New member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Sebboh,

Thanks, for taking the time to do all this. I am surprised that there is not more difference.
These pictures all are nice and sharp without the film I see over other NEX5 shots I have seen posted elsewhere.
I see that these shots were taken at ISO 200 and so I was wondering if some of the lack of sharpness scene in other shots posted elsewhere is due to the majority of them being indoor low-light cases which are probably using ISO 800 or 1600. I am wondering if the jpeg engine has an agressive NR algorithm which is killing the detail at high iso.
If you could provide a jpeg vs. RAW crop at high iso, say 800 or 1600, it would be interesting to see if that is what is happening.
Personally I don't feel like there is excessive NR going on robbing detail above 800. I've posted a bunch of shots on the first page of this thread of ISO 1600's. Granted they don't have all the hairs from the bee but I think they show good detail.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

erm.. well, I haven't a clue whether it's good or bad, but in the tradition of the new camera, I have to post some shots.


16mm f5 ISO 200


16mm f5 ISO 200



Kit lens ISO 200 f5



kit lens ISO 500 f5

it's grey and drab here, so it really isn't the best opportunity to play with a new camera, but such as it is . . . .
 

Diane B

New member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Jono, assume the K7 went back. When i saw the "i'm doomed" expected to see some shots. *smile*

If we don't blame Terry......well........
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Here's one thing that other NEX owners can chime in on... I'm finding that one of the things that Sony need to consider for their next FW update is the ability to have the menus wrap-around. For example, every time I want to change the bottom menu choice, Creative Style, for example, you need to keep turning the control wheel clockwise until you reach the bottom. Wouldn't it make sense to turn it counterclockwise and get there in one click?

Cheers,
 

jonoslack

Active member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Here's one thing that other NEX owners can chime in on... I'm finding that one of the things that Sony need to consider for their next FW update is the ability to have the menus wrap-around. For example, every time I want to change the bottom menu choice, Creative Style, for example, you need to keep turning the control wheel clockwise until you reach the bottom. Wouldn't it make sense to turn it counterclockwise and get there in one click?

Cheers,
Yes
Format is buried a million clicks deep!
 

jonoslack

Active member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Jono, assume the K7 went back. When i saw the "i'm doomed" expected to see some shots. *smile*

If we don't blame Terry......well........
Yes it did - it was lovely, but the 16-50 was big, and the file quality really didn't match up to the A900 . . . .
this looks like fun though, and the file quality is pretty good . . . .










all at 1600 ISO with the kit lens
 

Jim DE

New member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Here is a shot I did with the Sony Alpha adapter, ext tubes, and a Minolta 100-300 AF on a NEX 5




And a crop of the head

 

Terry

New member
Re: Fun with the NEX cameras....

Hi Jim,
Welcome to the forum. The head almost has a "glow" to it. Cool!
 
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