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Thread: Fun With Sony _____

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    The laws of physics still apply, circles of confusion are what they are, and diffraction limits on different sensors with identical pixel pitch remain the same.

    If the A7R's sensor offers a less convoluted optical path in its toppings (which I expect to be the case), then diffraction limits should be visible even earlier on the A7R than on the D800E (assuming post-processing by the imaging pipeline is identical, which it likely isn't, and I suppose that's your point).
    Being someone with a Chemistry background, whenever the "laws of physics" are invoked (especially for CoC which are based on a set of assumptions), I am at a loss.

    Jokes aside, why would you assume there are any similarities in processors or processing between Nikon and Sony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    That's certainly the case with all lenses I've used on the D800E that are up to the task. F/4.8-5.0 might even be a touch better.
    I have lenses that are diffraction limited wide open and some that are measured to have consistently high resolution at multiple apertures. I will check them out in due course on the A7R.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Hi Jono,
    28 Cron coming up tomorrow plus, if I have time, the 50 lux and nocti and the 90 macro elmar. When I've worked out which ones are 'basically promising' I'll test them in more depth but the 18 is going, and probably the 35 lux, which I have never really liked.
    I think the 28 'cron is almost the most interesting - I'd expect the WATE to be useable (it's fairly tele centric, and it does work on the NEX).

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Jokes aside, why would you assume there are any similarities in processors or processing between Nikon and Sony?
    I am not assuming that (see my previous post). I am merely stating that as far as optics are concerned, the sensors of the A7R and the D800E should behave very similarly. I am therefore expecting my experience with different lenses on the D800E to mostly apply to the A7R. But I'm very open to be pleasantly surprised…

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Actually, I should not care. I gave up chasing those a long while back.

    A shot with the Olympus 85/2. The Leica RF is more fascinating to some than the latest and the greatest used for this shot.


    Sony A7R, Olympus F.Zuiko 85/2, f/2, ISO6400

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I have posted this before (A7 or 7R thread):

    Sony Global - Sony Global - Digital Imaging - ?7R
    Quote from the above URL (section titled 'Detail reproduction technology and diffraction-reducing technology'):

    By taking the aperture setting into account, this technology faithfully restores clarity to points of light and other fine details

    Sounds like this only applies to native lenses…

    Edit: and I bet the math that goes on is based on the fuzzy concept (pardon the pun) of CoC.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Vivek

    Assume you are not cropping the edges of your shots, but all your lenses so far look to perform VERY well on the a7r. Nicely done. At this point have you tried any Leica glass?

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I have posted this before (A7 or 7R thread):

    Sony Global - Sony Global - Digital Imaging - ?7R

    My camera shipped with a default of shoot without lens option.

    Also note that the current FW reads 1.01.
    Quote from your reference:
    "
    Detail reproduction technology and diffraction-reducing technology

    Two new technologies contribute to remarkably realistic images and bring out the full depiction performance of α lenses. Detail reproduction technology depicts details more faithfully with a more natural sense of dimension by preventing the overemphasized outlines that plague most digital images. Diffraction-reducing technology suppresses the effects of diffraction, which causes points of light to appear blurred especially at small aperture settings (large F-numbers). By taking the aperture setting into account, this technology faithfully restores clarity to points of light and other fine details: It brings out the potential of the lens, 36-megapixel image sensor and optical low-pass filter-free design so you can enjoy deep focus shooting of landscapes and more with a higher sense of clarity.
    "

    How do they do that for a lens mounted with an adapter?
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Vivek

    Assume you are not cropping the edges of your shots, but all your lenses so far look to perform VERY well on the a7r. Nicely done. At this point have you tried any Leica glass?
    Thanks, Lou.

    No cropping at all (unless it is specifically mentioned)!

    I will mount the Summicron-R 50/2 soon. Yes, I have tried Leica glass (swell!) but they aren't R or M.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    How do they do that for a lens mounted with an adapter?
    K-H, You should send a query to Sony. Just like Metabones and their website, I understand very little.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Thanks, Lou.

    No cropping at all (unless it is specifically mentioned)!

    I will mount the Summicron-R 50/2 soon. Yes, I have tried Leica glass (swell!) but they aren't R or M.
    Vivek

    I am looking forward to trying out the little 40/2.0 C, 21/2.8 Elmarit-M E60 and a MATE. Maybe older glass works better than new Leica glass excluding perhaps (hope) R glass.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    K-H, You should send a query to Sony. Just like Metabones and their website, I understand very little.

    Thanks Vivek. Not really necessary.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    How do they do that for a lens mounted with an adapter?
    My guess is that they either don't use this de-convolution sharpening approach (which it undoubtedly is) if there's no electronic aperture info available, or they use a standard default value, or the Bionz-X is powerful enough to analyze the image and parametrize the sharpening accordingly. Would be very interested to know what exactly goes on!
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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Hey guys, Marke Gilbert stopped by on his way to a business meeting near me and brought along his recently delivered A7R.

    We did a few shots with a few A mount ZAs on the LAEA4 adapter, and a few more with some M lenses.

    What are you using to process the RAW files? Unfortunately, I can't install LR5 or PS6 on my machine as it is too old and I've been waiting to evaluate the new Mac Desk-Top.

    Is there a DNG converter that'll do these A7R files? It is really difficult to judge based on just jpegs ... and I didn't have enough time to really adjust any settings other than the basics.

    Jpegs look pretty good, but the really high ISO stuff seems to have a heavy dose of in-camera noise reduction.

    - Marc

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Yes, use the latest release candidate of Adobe DNG Converter (8.3) from Adobe Labs.

    Edit: here's the URL (use bottom download link on that page) - http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/cameraraw8-3.html

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Actually, I should not care. I gave up chasing those a long while back.

    A shot with the Olympus 85/2. The Leica RF is more fascinating to some than the latest and the greatest used for this shot.
    Indeed Vivek - nice to see your subject has his head screwed on right! Had the boot been on the other foot (i.e. he was taking the shot) I guess he might have nailed the focus

    More seriously, I think all of these cameras take good snaps . . . . . . . the ergonomics and operation of the camera seem to me of much more significance than the IQ.

    . . .but then, that's just me.

    . . . lovely snaps of your son incidentally.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Hi Jono, He actually asked for a shot with the MM in focus.


    Sony A7R, Olympus OM 50/1.2, f/1.2, ISO1600


    Thanks for your kind words.
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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    I spent a bit of time (indoors, close magnification ranges) searching for Moire with lenses that are capable. All in vain.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Thank you Ron. Converting as I write this.

    - Marc

    PS, I think Jono is going to like his M75/2AA on this camera!

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Thank you Ron. Converting as I write this.

    - Marc

    PS, I think Jono is going to like his M75/2AA on this camera!
    HI Marc
    I'm sure I would, but I'd always prefer to use it on an M . . . I'm available for the A7r, but it needs a good zoom before I bite. . . . the 24-70 f4 might be it, but Tim Ashley will tell me whether or no!

    More seriously, I don't need a new body for M lenses, but I am open to a new body for AF zoom lenses.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Marc
    I'm sure I would, but I'd always prefer to use it on an M . . . I'm available for the A7r, but it needs a good zoom before I bite. . . . the 24-70 f4 might be it, but Tim Ashley will tell me whether or no!

    More seriously, I don't need a new body for M lenses, but I am open to a new body for AF zoom lenses.
    Me too. The AF capabilities are exciting on the a7r. You are a Contax guy. Have you seen that video where someone put a Techart AF Contax-E mount adapter on an a7r? The Contax G lens focused OK. I have a 21/2.8, 28/2.8 and 45/2 and am looking forward to seeing how they might work out.

    So far Vibek's photos have convinced me that non-M lenses work the best, but testing and examples are just beginning to come online.
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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I spent a bit of time (indoors, close magnification ranges) searching for Moire with lenses that are capable. All in vain.
    My experience with the D800E has been that moiré is very rarely visible. I've seen it with certain textiles and sometimes with bird plumage, but for my practical purposes, it is a non-issue. The subject matter I shoot generally does not contain large areas with uniform patterns of high-frequency. However, the case may perhaps be altered for fashion or architecture photographers.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Marke Gilbert is a Canon guy and had a Canon lens with him using a Metabones AF adapter. It was pretty slow focusing (as in "snail slow") ... okay for more leisurely, static subject work.

    In contrast, the Sony LAEA4 Translucent Mirror adapter for my A mount lenses was at least as fast AF as my A99. I did not have the camera in hand long enough to properly test it on a moving subject.

    I need more time with this LAEA4 adapter and the ZA lenses ... the few shots I did with a ZA24/2 were not in critical focus, but I didn't concentrate on that aspect or how to set the AF array, and so on. The ZA50/1.4 was better. As was the ZA16-35/2.8, and at 16mm seemed about the same as on the A99 with some similar levels of vignetting expected @ 16mm.

    If I go for A7R, I'll probably get a few native lenses for it ... but for the most part I view it as a back-up to the A99 for paying work using the ZA lenses I already have ... and a small high res color portrait companion to the Leica M Monochrome when traveling so I don't have to drag along a different set of lenses. I do not use WA lenses very much even on the M camera.

    So, I was far more interested in how it worked with my M50/0.95 and 75/2AA ... plus tried it with the M90/2.8. Focus peaking seems to work very well on this camera. The most interesting aspect was how fast and easy it was to focus @ 0.95 in lighting conditions that would be very challenging for rangefinder work. The A7R's EVF is literally like adding night vision.

    For me, the singular most important test of this camera is for use with the M50/0.95 (my most used focal length by a huge margin) ... it has to only work with that lens to make it worth the price.

    I have a Leica M240 Demo coming tomorrow AM to test and write a review ... I am going to try to get Marke to bring back the A7R so I can do a few comparisons based on how I shoot.

    - Marc
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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Me too. The AF capabilities are exciting on the a7r. You are a Contax guy. Have you seen that video where someone put a Techart AF Contax-E mount adapter on an a7r? The Contax G lens focused OK. I have a 21/2.8, 28/2.8 and 45/2 and am looking forward to seeing how they might work out.

    So far Vibek's photos have convinced me that non-M lenses work the best, but testing and examples are just beginning to come online.
    If you are speaking of the Zeiss Contax G lenses (as is my case), then I fear that these RF lenses won't behave very differently from the wa Leica M lenses. I have just read that even the Leica 50mm F1.4 Sumilux is producing smeared corners on the A7r. Too bad, I have been waiting for a digital back for those lenses since a long time, but what I have read recently has lowered my hopes.
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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    ...it seems like it will be a Scientific approach to get wide lenses working on a A7/r, when the M's are out of the question. So I might better back of and perhaps stick to a Nikon D610 instead, for wides and high iso demands
    thorkil

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    For me, the singular most important test of this camera is for use with the M50/0.95 (my most used focal length by a huge margin) ... it has to only work with that lens to make it worth the price.

    I have a Leica M240 Demo coming tomorrow AM to test and write a review ... I am going to try to get Marke to bring back the A7R so I can do a few comparisons based on how I shoot.

    - Marc
    HI Marc

    As I say - I'm still up for an A7r, but I doubt I'd use it with the 50 0.95, because I'm still fine focusing with the M. However, it is an interesting point, and I'm in favour of the new EVFs (I think that the Sony and Olympus ones use the same Epson panel). But you make an interesting point - I think you'll find that focusing with the M is just more successful than with the M9 - the improved rangefinder really is improved. I also think you'll be seduced by the new shutter and find the colour is now fine with the new firmware (certainly, I have no complaints, and I'm not seeing many complaints from users either).

    All the best

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Marc
    I'm sure I would, but I'd always prefer to use it on an M . . . I'm available for the A7r, but it needs a good zoom before I bite. . . . the 24-70 f4 might be it, but Tim Ashley will tell me whether or no!

    More seriously, I don't need a new body for M lenses, but I am open to a new body for AF zoom lenses.
    Jono,

    Without any experience concerning the 24-70 F4, I am inclined to think that the 24-70 F2.8 Zeiss, using one of the a-mount to e-mount apaters, might be a better solution, I can certainly vouche for the 24-70 F2.8 Vario Sonnar to be one of the best zooms I used, across all brands.

    I do have doubts that the new one is a match.

    Sony 24-70mm F/2.8 SSM Carl Zeiss review
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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    It is quite likely that Jono will be taken with the new (upcoming and 5 years too late) PanaLeica m43rds camera. Yesterday, the camera shop guy was asking me if I knew how "large" the Lumix sensor was.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It is quite likely that Jono will be taken with the new (upcoming and 5 years too late) PanaLeica m43rds camera. Yesterday, the camera shop guy was asking me if I knew how "large" the Lumix sensor was.


    Well, hold your thumb up to your right eye to get an impression of the sensor size... closer...CLOSER... getting there... closer... DAMMIT I said closer...

    "OUCH"... There you are.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Come on, Georg! If you go by the pixel density, a 16MP m43rds sensor wins hands down!

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Come on, Georg! If you go by the pixel density, a 16MP m43rds sensor wins hands down!
    Hey, I am passed 50 years, I stopped looking at the pixel density long ago, it makes me dizzy and gives me a headache.

    I rather look at the results coming out of my 11880 instead.

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    UV and IR sensitivity of A7R

    The UV/IR cut filter in A7R is stronger than the ones in the NEX cams.

    No UV is registered.

    IR is well suppressed as well.

    The camera is only useful for Visible light captures.

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    A7R with 28 Cron and 90mm Macro Elmar

    In short, 28 Cron is a 'no' (or at least a 'not really') and the 90mm Macro Elmar is a 'Yes, but'.

    The files, as yesterday, are uploading (slowly!) to here. The colour cast shots are half size, the others are full size if you want to download them. All of them have captions to help you see the F stop and all have full EXIF.

    In terms of colour shading, the 28 Cron is disappointing. Not as bad as the 18mm Super Elmar but not as good as the 35 Lux FLE. In terms of edge sharpness, an unfussy user might be happy by F8 but the corners take F11. Another one for eBay I think; it was starting to look not wonderful on the M240 and is a fail on on the A7R.

    The 90mm Macro Elmar is one of my favourite lenses with pretty much any camera it mounts on. Colour shading on the A7R is a non-issue and sharpness seems good though across the frame - I have not shot Test Shots as such, no brick wall types, because it was evidently just fine in normal use especially at F5.6 and pretty good at F4 and F8. Bit of CA, which cleans up nicely. The 'but' is merely that the use of magnified focus is tough with an unstabilised lens of this length (the subject is very jiggly and there is some Jello too) and that you will need at least a 250th and even that does not always work perfectly. But it is a small and lovely and light lens and very useful.

    I am also uploading some more general snaps from these two lenses and one example purposely underexposed for the main subject and then given a +100 shadows boost for comparison. My opinion so far is that the A7R does not have quite the clean shadow behaviour of the D800E. It is very good, but the files seems lightly less pliable. More shooting needed and possibly at some point a comparison or two...
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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It is quite likely that Jono will be taken with the new (upcoming and 5 years too late) PanaLeica m43rds camera. Yesterday, the camera shop guy was asking me if I knew how "large" the Lumix sensor was.
    Hi Vivek
    Not interested in a rebadged Panasonic - but I'd certainly like it if Leica were to produce a µ43 camera - You can take the pi$$ but the E-M1 is a great camera which produces fine results, and there are many excellent lenses available (including some panaleica lenses). dPreview can't be wrong

    Sometimes µ43 produces just the right amount of depth of field:



    Incidentally - was that the camera shop guy in the shot above? he looks terrified!


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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    The camera shop guy looks terrified because he learned that sony.nl would sell directly to an individual well ahead of his chain getting any sample at all.

    BTW, Jono, that shot just illustrates how bad Oly and its lenses are. Missed the focus totally!
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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    Jono,

    Without any experience concerning the 24-70 F4, I am inclined to think that the 24-70 F2.8 Zeiss, using one of the a-mount to e-mount apaters, might be a better solution, I can certainly vouche for the 24-70 F2.8 Vario Sonnar to be one of the best zooms I used, across all brands.

    I do have doubts that the new one is a match.
    Hi There Georg - if I were going to use the 24-70 f2.8 Zeiss (lovely lens) Then I'd rather use it with the A99 replacement (which will presumably be 36mp as well) . . . or else just go for a D800e.

    There seems to me to be little point in having a teeny weeny body if you need to put great big lenses on it.



    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    In terms of colour shading, the 28 Cron is disappointing. Not as bad as the 18mm Super Elmar but not as good as the 35 Lux FLE. In terms of edge sharpness, an unfussy user might be happy by F8 but the corners take F11. Another one for eBay I think; it was starting to look not wonderful on the M240 and is a fail on on the A7R.
    Thank you Tim
    So - clearly - the answer is that buying an A7r to use with M lenses less than 35mm (and probably 50mm) is really not worth the candle.

    I'm still tempted - but I'll wait for the zoom.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The camera shop guy looks terrified because he learned that sony.nl would sell directly to an individual well ahead of his chain getting any sample at all.

    BTW, Jono, that shot just illustrates how bad Oly and its lenses are. Missed the focus totally!
    Well, I'm afraid I focused on the Seagull's chest rather than his head. . . . on the other hand the camera certainly did get the decisive moment . . . even if you'd prefer me to have focused elsewhere :roll eyes:

    But, okay, it is a jokey shot - but it's at 320mm equivalent, and the camera did focus instantly and did get the shot - that kind of instant single shot focusing speed - and a complete lack of shutter lag is not something I'd experienced before the OMD - and the E-M1 is even faster.

    Horses for courses (which was my point)

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    Re: A7R with 28 Cron and 90mm Macro Elmar

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    In short, 28 Cron is a 'no' (or at least a 'not really')
    Then that's the answer for me. The 28 Cron is my "cold dead fingers" lens.

    Thanks Tim!

    Matt

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi There Georg - if I were going to use the 24-70 f2.8 Zeiss (lovely lens) Then I'd rather use it with the A99 replacement (which will presumably be 36mp as well) . . . or else just go for a D800e.

    There seems to me to be little point in having a teeny weeny body if you need to put great big lenses on it.

    Actually more the point over the D800E is much better live view and focus peaking. EXACTLY why I am looking at this
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    If you are speaking of the Zeiss Contax G lenses (as is my case), then I fear that these RF lenses won't behave very differently from the wa Leica M lenses. I have just read that even the Leica 50mm F1.4 Sumilux is producing smeared corners on the A7r. Too bad, I have been waiting for a digital back for those lenses since a long time, but what I have read recently has lowered my hopes.
    You could very well be right.

    Did you happen to see the video that was on SAR a few ekes ago? The Contax G lens AF'd well and a test shot or two looked crisp to me.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    There seems to me to be little point in having a teeny weeny body if you need to put great big lenses on it.
    I couldn't agree more: in fact the A7R body is already stretched for space by the number of things it needs to do and ergonomics are nowhere near as good as a D800. Which is fine if you are saving weight and bulk but frankly, by the time you've packed all the extra batteries that you will need and decided to carry a load of full frame lenses with adaptors you will have saved so very little weight or space that it would not be worth it at all.



    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Thank you Tim
    So - clearly - the answer is that buying an A7r to use with M lenses less than 35mm (and probably 50mm) is really not worth the candle.

    I'm still tempted - but I'll wait for the zoom.
    I totally agree. I'm sure there will be some lenses that work OK but really, unless the batch of 'native FE lenses' turn out to be great, this system will have little life in it for me. I also today tried all my E mount lenses and they all, as expected, impose their own crop of vignette.
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    Re: A7R with 28 Cron and 90mm Macro Elmar

    Mon plaisir!

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Then that's the answer for me. The 28 Cron is my "cold dead fingers" lens.

    Thanks Tim!

    Matt

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Mounted on a M42 lens....I need to get hold all my friend's lenses before I know which is which
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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    A7 with Sony 35/1.8 SAM DT via LA EA1 adapter plus Kenko ext tub

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Sony A7 Nikon 50/1.4D
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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Hey Vivek, I´m curious about your aps-c e-mount lenses experiences. Did you get to "disassemble" one and test on the A7R yet?

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    There seems to me to be little point in having a teeny weeny body if you need to put great big lenses on it.
    AFAIK, it can not get teenier than an Olympus pen F (the real one!) 38/2.8 pancake lens.


    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
    Sony A7R, Olympus pen F 38/2.8, ISO1600, f/5.6


    crop by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr


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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Hey Vivek, I´m curious about your aps-c e-mount lenses experiences. Did you get to "disassemble" one and test on the A7R yet?
    Rafa, I posted already (earlier in the thread). None (without baffle) will work to cover the entire frame!

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Rafa, I posted already (earlier in the thread). None (without baffle) will work to cover the entire frame!
    Man, that is bad news. I was hoping I could use at least some of the smaller AF lenses I already have. As I´m getting the A7 I´m not really sure what results can be achieved with when shooting in APS-C mode (I think it shoots 10mp).

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    This is just not helping me out. If there is going to be a 36mp replacement for the a99 I may wait for that but with my a900 seeming to move a bit when I hit the shutter, I may be needing something new sooner than later.

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    Re: Fun with the A7/7R

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I'm sure there will be some lenses that work OK but really, unless the batch of 'native FE lenses' turn out to be great, this system will have little life in it for me. I also today tried all my E mount lenses and they all, as expected, impose their own crop of vignette.
    I think that's where I've got to as well . . . I guess if the zoom and a couple of primes work well, then one could augment the system with a couple of Zeiss Nikon fit lenses . . .

    A system is not made by a disparate batch of lenses with adapters.

    Just this guy you know
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