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Fun With Sony Cameras

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jonoslack

Active member
Re: Fun with the A7/7R

I was a great supporter of m43rds but sadly I came to believe it is a technical cul de sac. De facto the physical sensor are can never increase and if after this long they cannot increase the pixel density because they cannot effectively control the noise at higher iso, then I am afraid they never will.

LouisB
But it is changing - continually, look at the quality of the RX100 sensor for instance- that pixel density would produce a huge pixel count in m4/3 (can't be bothered to work it out) what wont change is the fact that decent FF lenses are always going to be much bigger.

I'm loving my A7, but I do recognise that the E-M1 is a better camera in almost every respect unless you want less depth of field.

All the best
 

jonoslack

Active member
Re: Fun with the A7/7R

Fun for the family!

I took one of these snaps with the Noctilux at 0.95 with an ouffro on the A7. I rather liked it, and thought There is a shot you couldn't get on m43!





So, being bloody minded I thought I should prove the point.

Can you tell which was shot with the E-M1 and which with the A7?
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Re: Fun with the A7/7R

You can't judge the MFT sensor performance based on a G1 : the E-M5 sensor was a game changer (and the following other bodies). Yes, the FF Sony sensor has 2 stops more DR compared to the E-M5, but the 6D DR is the same as that of the E-M5, so while the MFT sensors aren't the best in town due to their size, in matters of DR they can match many other actual cameras including all the Canon ones (second DXO ratings).
Never said I was judging Micro 4/3 based on the G1. To the contrary I actually said huge improvements have been made in a previous post and I was referring to the E-M5/ E-M1 sensors... I did try the E-M5 and it was a nice camera. I seriously considered the E-M1. I opted to go A7 + A7r instead as it was the better choice FOR ME and my desires.

Again not the place for this discussion and the original point was that you can't "cheat" physics and sensor size where light is concerned when another poster gave the hypothetical scenario regarding using a different lens to get the same shot. Yes it could be done but to state the IQ is the exact same isn't true.
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Re: Fun with the A7/7R

I was a great supporter of m43rds but sadly I came to believe it is a technical cul de sac. De facto the physical sensor are can never increase and if after this long they cannot increase the pixel density because they cannot effectively control the noise at higher iso, then I am afraid they never will.

I used to think that 16mpx was enough for anyone then I made the mistake of owning the RX1 with 24mpx (let alone the DP2M/3M which create 47MB files). The ability to crop further than with a 16mpx sensor was a revelation.

Personally, with the arrival of the A7, which is not that much more expensive than an EM-1 and the ability to adapt pretty much any FF lens I cannot see why a new owner would start with m43rds.

Just my two cents and of course I expect sharp intakes of breath but remember I did own and publish and even sell some commercial photographs from my m43rds days so I am speaking with a little experience of the system.

LouisB

Thanks Louis. I also remember your Leica days, blue bells, etc. :D
I use both types of cameras as they complement each other well.
A7R for general photography walkaround, landscapes on tripod shots, etc.
E-M1 as my 135 film 600 mm equivalent walkaround tele lens.
Handholding WA lenses with up to 1 second exposure time and getting sharp enough images is also something no other camera can do in my hands.
Image quality of the E-M1, as before of the E-M5, is quite good.
Of course, the E-M1 is not competitive for shooting fast action sports in dark arenas. But for that I wouldn't choose the A7/R either. There are better options.
As I said I like complementary tools being best at a specific task.
 

PSon

Active member
Re: Fun with the A7/7R

Fun for the family!



So, being bloody minded I thought I should prove the point.

Can you tell which was shot with the E-M1 and which with the A7?

I'll be brave and pick this image was taken with your A7.
 
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jlm

Workshop Member
Re: Fun with the A7/7R

brought the a7r/35 to the job site. just finished the balustrade and railings for the is hotel lobby; made 30 of those complex medallions and all the curly bits. over 200 1" glass balls in those holes. all handheld quick shots with keystone correction in C1





 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Re: Fun with the A7/7R

Couple more postcards from Paradise... A7R with 55mm F1.8




This lens is a laser... 100% crop from a real grab shot.

 

biglouis

Well-known member
Re: Fun with the A7/7R

^^^^ Amazing detail ^^^^


Well, I came to a different conclusion : the question is whether it is good enough for what one does. IMO, MFT is good enough for editorial jobs and up to A3 or may be even A2 (?) and I don't need more.
Anna, I completely agree with you. MFT is more than good enough for most applications with the exception of billboard adverts (and even then...). I was just a bit spooked when the GH-3 came out, for which I had very high expectations and its initial (ridiculously) high price and imho not much improved s/n ratio. At that point I gave up with MFT. But it is a great system and some of the lenses, especially the Leica DG 45/2.8 and 7-14 are really wonderful.

I am pleased to welcome you, Louis, on the Sony A's forum.

Expected you could not resist the A7, a very good decision you won't regret.
Werner, thank you. I do seem to be following you around from forum to forum!

I'm afraid that once I purchased the RX1 it was a slippery downward slope towards Sony...

LouisB
 
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kuujinbo

New member
Re: Fun with the A7/7R

Fun for the family!

I took one of these snaps with the Noctilux at 0.95 with an ouffro on the A7. I rather liked it, and thought There is a shot you couldn't get on m43!

So, being bloody minded I thought I should prove the point.

Can you tell which was shot with the E-M1 and which with the A7?
Since you mentioned OUFRO, and assuming the photos aren't cropped, the top one is A7?

Your point should be well taken. If you look hard enough on the Internet, there are other places that show the E-M1 holds it's own against many cameras with bigger sensors and more MP. These choices are a good thing, and we should just be happy and thankful for whatever camera we own irregardless. :)
 

cunim

Well-known member
Re: Fun with the A7/7R

Man 'O Steel magnolia - (+ 100% crop)
A7r, 90mm apo summicron asph at f2.5, 1/250, iso 1000
I continue to really like this lens/camera pairing
 
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Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
Re: Fun with the A7/7R

I am glad I chose the A7r despite the fact that everybody seems to be raving about the A7 because of the kit lens and a few RF wides.
The files are just wonderfull, on higher ISO's as well, and there is so much room for corrections (highlights and shadows) that I must conclude this is a great sensor and camera for its price.
I think Sony is the most innovating camera company right now.
Not enough native lenses? Forget it, lenses for these cameras are all over the place for little money.
AF lenses will come soon enough beside who need AF with this EVF and focus magnification and focus peaking in a lot of situations on these camera's.
It is a dream to use all those existing fabulous old lenses with their real FL and DOF for once. Just perfect.
( why do I not have stocks in this company?)
All the differences are not to be seen on internet presentations only at 100 % on your computer and in making big prints.
For internet and smaller prints M4/3 is also perfect but there is life besides internet :watch:
Olympus makes great lenses and ergonomical beautifull cameras but will always be crippled by the size of 4/3 for me.
I hope something real good is coming out of their partnership with Sony.

Looks like summertime in Amsterdam these days, strange.
 
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