jonoslack
Active member
May be bigger, but it's a whole lot faster!I want something smaller , damn thing is bigger than my Mamiya. LOL
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May be bigger, but it's a whole lot faster!I want something smaller , damn thing is bigger than my Mamiya. LOL
HI GuyYou may see Nikon announce as early as next week , they always pre announce than Canon follows and tries to take there thunder. Seen it time and time again. Frankly leica should announce whatever they have , create a buzz. If Leica comes out with just a couple lenses than there just toast. They NEED something really big and with a promise to R10 maybe later is not going to cut it for me. I want product TODAY not a year from now
Hi StuartWell Jono,
I think they can compete in a limited segment of the market. They may be 3rd tier players in the technological department, but they are among the leaders in optical design. Since only Canon (and Sony) make their own sensors, it is possible for Leica to compete if they focus on their strengths -- absolute optical quality and straightforward operation. I think that now more than ever they have a chance -- as sensors increase in size and quality, the optics are the real key to the best performance.
I don't see Leica competing in the D3 based market of ISO 25,000, Live view and 9fps, but if they make a full frame or larger sensor, 16-22 MP, 16bit in an evolutionarily designed R8/9 body-style and tack some auto-focus R lenses on it, I think they will find a client base. They have the optics down, and they have firmware help from Jenoptik, they can look to panasonic for help with AF, stabilization and other technology...they might be able to do it. It will be expensive though...but at 5 grand for the D3 and 8 for the 1DsMkIII, those are not cheap either!
Stuart your last line pretty much says it all. You cannot depend on loyal customers anymore to follow you . When Nikon , Canon and others are putting out good product people will switch on a dime. The D3 is just one great example. Many Leica and canon folks went crazy to get into the D3 and for good reason. Just me for example , no matter how I do the math the Phase MF system i just bought still is less than I paid for my M8 system and still less than my DMR system when I had that one. Go buy a Nikon D3 system today and it maybe even less than half than what leica system is on the market. We all love our Leica's no question but let's face it money is money and right now come September we still will be in the economic dog house we are in today and maybe even worse.I am not so sure that it will be 10 grand. It may be more than a ZD back (so is a 1DsMkIII), but to be honest, a ZD back is limited in some major ways (unusable above ISO 200 for example). I think we will see pricing in line with the top of the line Canon. Leica surely realizes that there is a delicate line to walk between MF digital and 35mm.
I think that the sensor is not really the main cost in cameras like the D3 and 1DsMkIII. Yes, it is a major component, but look at the 5D...that is full-frame in a sub 3000 camera. Much of the cost in the pro series DSLR's goes into extremely sophisticated shutter and mirror assemblies that can shoot over 7 or 8 fps, in their auto-focus and metering systems, weather sealing, live view,large LCD's, super speed image pipelines and so on.
I think that if Leica buys a full frame chip and puts it in a more streamlined camera (slower fps, no live view, not 8 million custom functions), they can make it at a more competitive price. The lenses will remain expensive, but Leica DOES make some more reasonable lenses like the summarits, 28 elmarit asph, and the 35-70/4 R. I am not saying it is going to be easy, but I do think it is possible.
As for the user base...well, I don't think you can count on loyalty from any user base. Look how many people dumped Canon for the D3...if you build a camera that correctly addresses the needs of photographers, then people will buy it.
Guy,Not surprised at all Billy , they actually have to after Nikon announced the D700. They been playing this game forever and trying to out do each other the same week on announcements. Been pretty funny over the years watching them battle it out. I would bet a dozen donuts first announcement the 5d replacement.
Problem may be the size of the image circle from the R lenses. Unless you can price yourself very competitively against the current MF players, an R10 with a 25Mpx sensor at say 7 microns may be a tough sell. I think it would have to be priced in the neighborhood of $13K to get any acceptance. Otherwise it is up against the Hassy CFV, Mamiya ZD, and (at more money) the P25+, Hassy CF 22 etc. Breaking into the MF market is also not an easy positioning game. And given that, to be competitive you would have to offer, and get people to buy, a new round of auto focus lenses.I don't see how tiny Leica can play in the DSLR space against Canon-Nikon-Sony. They just don't have the resources and economies of scale. If they want to satisfy the small base of existing R lens owners slap a red dot and R mount on a proven functioning camera from Pentax or Nikon. Or just offer a pricey Leica service to swap mounts of R lenses to the nikon or other mount without the need for stop down metering if thats possible and do as Zeiss is doing. Even much larger Zeiss has not attempted to jump into the camera making business again, instead partnering with Sony to move high end lenses for DSLR's.
There has been talk about a larger then 35mm sensor in the R10. Leica might have a shot in the much smaller MF market. It's more of a level playing field for Leica with small competitors like Sinar and Phase but that would price it out of the range of a lot of R users (and require an expensive adapter).
Leica is still dependent on the M product line as it's flagship for the foreseeable future. No one seems interested in developing a competing DRF for now so they better make hay while they can. I'd like to see an M9 based on the current M8, a manufactured by Cosina entry level M and a PanaLeica GRD competitor (a digital CM). They need to keep the flag flying and the buzz going in the RF market, in this digital age users have very short attention spans.
So much for that IdeaCanon will make their announcement by the end of the week according to two hints dropped by Michael R. at Luminous-Landscape.