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Advance notification: a lot of gear for sale

tashley

Subscriber Member
Just to tip off anyone who is UK based and looking for Phase gear, I am probably going to list for sale in this forum only (unless my dealer can make me a good offer!)
* a very lightly used IQ180 with cables, batteries, chargers etc.
* DF body
* Phase 80mm lens, Mammy 28mm, Hartblei Super Rotator 45mm, Phase Schneider 110LS
* Cambo WRS with Schneider 35XL
* a lot of bits and pieces. The only thing that stays is the Cube...

It will take me a week or so to take photos and put together full descriptions and to work out what I want to ask but any pre-registrations of interest will be welcome! However sadly for tax reasons these items are only for sale in the EU (and the IQ180 only to those willing to collect in UK and pay on collection).

Thanks all!
Tim
 

Professional

Active member
Yes, why you sell IQ180? i feel all people want to get this back if they have money and can afforded, and you want to sell it, to get IQ200?
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
I was hoping not to have to answer these questions since I don't want to start any wars but I have had so many requests via PM for my reasons that I will jot them down later and post them here...
 

Professional

Active member
It is not about starting wars or so, it is about what things that lead you to sell it, if it is in the back then enlighten us, if it is not and it is only your personal decision then this is another story, some people sell the item because an issue in the item but they state it that it was a user or personal not the item, then we may do the same mistake with the same item.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Will do Guy but for reasons of export tax it'll almost certainly not be economic to sell the gear to someone in the USA. I haven't decided prices yet but I have the WRS with Schneider 35XL, appropriately sliced LCC sheet, one shot cable and that's about all...
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Reasons for sale

I wasn't going to do this but I have had so many requests by PM (and a couple here) to say why I'm selling that I thought I'd go ahead.

Firstly: let me stress up front that I am amazed at Phase's achievement in producing the IQ180. I have no real absolute complaints about it, neither have I experienced any serious frustrations with reliability or stability. So I am not selling it because there is anything 'wrong' with it. The new screen and processor have finally accompanied the sensor range into the 21st Century and when the DF body does the same thing, it will all hang together beautifully.

Now my reasons:

1) I was not expecting the hassle with the LCCs on wider Schneiders. In giving with one hand Phase took away with the other, reducing the available movements and making even unshifted files look subtly 'processed'. I know that there's a new algorithm but I just can't be bothered to enter another round of testing and analysis to see how effective it is, nor do I want to be gamed into yet another round of gear switching into longer technical glass or other manufacturers' glass.

2) I have never liked the DF body. I know some people can focus it on moving objects in the dark but I can't! And it locks up a lot when using MUP and a cable release (known bug apparently). It has bad shutter lag too, and generally feels indecisive and unresponsive - for example, in MUP mode, which you often have to use because the base ISO of 35 and the need for certainty on focus often mean tripod use and slow shutter speeds, the DF body insists on a brief attempt at focus before the shutter actuates even when set to MF. So it is hard to feel that you and the camera are working together.

3) Whether used on the DF or on a technical camera, and despite focus mask, one nearly always needs to use a tripod if one is to get sufficient DOF to ensure focus and yet keep at low ISO which, for best quality, you need to do.

4) Lack of live view makes 'exposing to the right' impossible other than by iteration. One of the main advantages of the sensor is its phenomenal DR but if you risk losing a stop of that because there's no live view histogram, then you give up some of that advantage. On a Panasonic GH2 for example, using the histo means you can nail the exposure all the time with incredible ease and accuracy and that in part at least closes the DR gap.

Right, that's the negatives. They form about ten percent of the reason. The rest is down to my changing work and shooting needs plus my perception of where the next generation of cameras will fit into that.

Some context:

I have an M9 which has amazing glass, not only technically but also in terms of its beautiful descriptive powers. It took me literally years to get a set of glass that focusses accurately on my body, through iterations of M8, M8.2 and M9 and I am now 'there' and this accurate pairing, in combination with the lack of AA filter, can give me the very 'clean' look of MF when I need it and at a fraction of the bulk. Sure, you can't blow it up so big but my printer goes to 24" wide and prints to that size can be very beautiful. I also nearly always print smaller these days. Nonetheless, in the Big Clear Out I might even sell the M9 now (I will never sell any of the glass) and await the next generation of M using Leica gear.

I have a 5DII which I used to use for most of the other bases (zoom, AF, flexibility etc) and it is an extremely good camera with no poetry in its soul. I might sell it but keep the better glass, in anticipation of the next generation of Canon DSLR, which I am willing to gamble will give me the extra resolution and DR boost I'd like to have.

I have a Fuji X100 which I will probably sell because, much as I like the files, it behaves indecisively. Nuff said.

I recently sold my 'second home' setup, a Nikon D7000 because it rarely got the focus exactly right and because IMHO none of the DX zoom glass is good enough for the sensor, which has great DR. No point having great DR if nothing is sharp.

So as you can see, I have a lot of gear (I know I amongst friends on this at GetDPI!) and am having that 'time for a reshuffle' feeling. Why?...

The joker in the pack is the Panasonic GH2 I recently acquired to replace the Nikon, with 7-14, 45-140, 100-300 and 20mm pancake. My attention was drawn to it by a famous rapper turned film maker who let me have a go with his, and then by Mark Dubovoy's piece over at Lula about taking it and an S2 on safari.

Everything they say about it is true. Whatever the limitations imposed by the small sensor, and despite the variable abilities of the 45-140, this is a frickin' awesome setup. I just got back from a two week trip around Greece and Turkey, pure vacation but I knew there would be some great photo ops, and you can get the whole setup, including an iPad with Snapseed on it, into a Billingham shoulder bag. And let me tell you it was enormous fun and enormously great to use. The ergonomics are fantastic, the exposure abilities are spot on, the focus is very fast and nearly always accurate and even the higher ISO is often useable. The accuracy of the EVF and the 14-600mm equivalent zoom range means little cropping, the F1.7 pancake means you can use it handheld in dark places, the brilliantly thought out interface means you pretty much never miss a shot because of a need to fiddle. etc etc.

Now let me make it clear: I am not replacing an IQ180 with a GH2 but boy, did that GH2 crystallise for me what I really like in a camera and what draws my creative juices to the fore! Let me stick in a small example here (in fact, two)



OK that one is a) a crop and b) I had to make one of my rare trips to Photoshop to remove part of the diving platform but this next one is as-shot other than some very tarty treatment in Snapseed.



Then how's about this one, taken with the longer zoom on the spur of the moment as the action suddenly unfolded. Again given the trick treatment in Snapseed (sorry about this, I never, ever, ever have Fun with Filters and Borders but Snapseed and the iPad made me do it...) but the original is easily good enough for print publication had the buildings been more famous...




Pause for breath.

A couple of years ago I had a job to photograph a Very Famous Person. I am a landscape and sometimes street photographer and I hate doing portraits but I had good reasons to say Yes. I took along the whole Phase setup, a million reflectors, cube, tripod, two assistants, blah di blah. Lovely north facing light, which failed as soon as my allotted 15 minutes began. Subject looked in horror at huge setup. After 11 minutes I grabbed my 5DII with 24-105 zoom in desperation and dragged my subject next door, sat him down and made him smile. That one shot has been used globally. Not a great shot, but not a bad one. None of the 'fancy gear' shots got used.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that I have tried all this Big Gear and it just doesn't work for me. I have about five shots from the past few years of digital MF that I would save in the event of a fire.

Now, much as I want to say, like an impotent lover, 'it's not you, it's me' I don't actually think that is totally true. I haven't put in my 10,000 hours to be a truly expert MF photographer but I am 50 and I had my first MF studio camera at the age of 20 and I have shot my fair share of 4x5 so my technique is probably 'good enough' by now, at least a lot of the time. And I still don't get the results I want and some of that is down to the intimidating form factor, retrograde ergonomics and action-delaying technical requirements of shooting with MF digital.

In fact I'd go as far as to say that there are only about four main reasons I might choose MF over, say, a top of the range Canikon.

* DR
* Resolution
* Ability to use a tech cam
* Desire for extremely narrow DOF

Of these, MF gives up some of the DR advantage (which is narrow over the best Nikons in any event) by requiring an exposure technique of such exactitude to achieve it that much spontaneity is lost. The extra resolution is the Killer App but really, how often is it needed? I know there are some uses for which it is vital and I know that some print buyers go over their purchases with a loupe, but mine don't. As for the ability to use a tech cam, well, look at all the uncertainty going on around what the IQ 180 lets you do compared to a P65+... And as for DOF, I can get many of the DOF effects I want on a MFT sensor and all of them on full frame.

So, long dull ramble, sorry but several people did ask! For those who want an executive summary:

* There's nothing badly wrong with the Phase gear. A few niggles but basically it is amazing, state of the art and the best you can get.
* I personally want smaller, lighter gear that allows me to have it with me more often and use it more flexibly and I think the next generation of gear from the mainstream manufacturers will allow me to have that with 'gap closing' performance for my needs...

All that expensive MF stuff sits, reproachfully, in a locked and heavily insured cupboard. I drag it out with a sigh, lug it around, set it up, tweak and fiddle.... and that process mostly kills my subject stone dead.

In my hands, it takes the most beautiful pictures of corpses.

:ROTFL:

Tim


ps for anyone interested in just how schlocky you can be with a GH2, Snapseed and an iPad the rest of that set of shots is
here...

I can only ask for clemency. I was on holiday Your Honour.
 
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Terry

New member
Thanks for the post. Well said.
By the way my tech cam and back stayed at home for my recent safari trip.
The GH2 with 100-300 was used for 90% of the shots. A G3 was used for the other 10%.
 

cs750

Member
Tim, I for one wish you the best in coming to the best decision for you. At least you "been there and done that". Otherwise the humane thing for all of us to do is grant clemency as requested and I make no further comment. I leave no room for "wars", and I hope you are still going to make it to the New England Workshop. Charles
 

gazwas

Active member
Tim, I think its a revaluation to feel its not the gear you enjoy but the process of taking the picture. I own an Olympus XZ-1, and it is a liberating experience shooting with it and the quality is superb, especially processed in C1 so can understand your journey.

I fully appreciate the capabilities of the IQ180 but like you, can't be bothered with the new problems introduced along with it and lacking live view features for tech camera users.

Good luck with lighter kit bag!
 

Professional

Active member
Fair nuf reasons and response, you see, now you make it for me that i have to think again pre-think] if that IQ is good for what job or work i want to do, you are lucky that you are paid off your gear, i am not, so i have to see what will that IQ give me over my other gear, i have Hassy 60 that i still use it very rare and nothing back i get from it, so what will be the reasons to go with IQ, and one friend told me that he heard about 2 persons in my country went out for taking pics, he told me that one person with Aptus 12 was working with 0 issue but the other person with IQ180 had issues, i don't have any problem or against any company or manufacturers, but before i jump from one big name to another big i have to see why i have to jump, throwing money on another items just to have that latest will not help much, honestly i feel i have to gift rid of my 60mp camera because many here did the same and go to 80mp, but they did that for reasons or they have a lot of money, i am not, even in the future i don't see it is worthy, i changed from landscapes and outdoors to indoors and portraits now, so IQ will not be the best tool i must have even it will do, later if i will go back to landscapes and buy a tech camera, then i will think again about Phase 1, but hope that time i don't need to waste too much to buy another system or to replace my current system that time.

Thanks for your post.
 
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AlexLF

Well-known member
Well, I've been reading this forum for years already. I'm not a pro and I don't make money with photography. But I went through 35mm and 5 years of 4x5 shooting. In 2009 I bought D3x, for landscapes mostly. Reading about MF digital and looking at the pictures made with it I've been really thinking to dive into it (and I don't really have these kind of sum of money in hand, so it'd be not easy at all).

With all that said, I decided not to go this way. And there are reasons and one idea for manufacturers:
  • I'm happy with D3x
  • I don't make very large prints
  • I find myself lazy to haul even D3x with 3 lenses
  • I'm really impressed with Lumix GF3 photos quality (I tried the camera)

The only thing I miss in D3x (and GF3) is movements (I'd love to shoot some architecture).

So here's my idea (not really great but there's nothing close exists):
- I really assume here that 24-30 megapixels is enough these days for most of amateurs and pro's. And many of them are eager to get the tech camera with digital back. Having prices on the gear at the today's level most people just can't afford the existing digital backs (aside from technical problems with these expensive tools). So why companies like Linhof, Hasselblad, Phase One, Leica, Rodenstock and Schneider can't have smaller standard for digital back? Just like Panasonic and Olympus have their four thirds!

Please introduce such a standard (companies alliance), create tech cam for it (Linhof and|or Hassy), make 24x24 mm (or 35x35, 24x36, whatever) digital back and Rodenstock with Schneider will manufacture lenses! I see lots of advantages in this:
- still high quality
- MUCH cheaper than current MFDBs + tech cams (due to much higher production volume)
- very lightweight
- easier to setup
- new standard could be on par to the current workflow, computers, etc. So manufacturers could have freedom in making the new tools ... modern.

I already sent emails to two of those companies. Don't expect to get a reply or anything, but I'm sure they read this forum so maybe one day we'll get something like this... who knows.

And I think this is the right thread to post this.

PS. And I'm buying GF3 or G3 or GH2... can't decide yet.
 

pophoto

New member
Tim,

I am a person who has been thinking a lot about going into MF, and my largest reservation would be to find out that MF was never meant to be for me. I know I don't need to buy the gear to experience MF, but how does one truly experience something with out going all the way. I thank you for sharing your experiences and and insight for what it is for you. I have recently given up on all my Leica gear (M9 and lenses), only to be thinking about doing it all over again! Sold my D700, kept my lenses. Still use my 5DII with primes and my old Nex5 which I do for mounting my ZM lenses!

I can't help that gear-head part of me, it's also another part of me within photography! So who knows I might look at the GH2 with more respect now!
Your list of advantages is also what I am after, but I didn't know enough about the problem associated and also I no longer live in the UK, but foggy San Francisco, another story.
Anyhow, I wish you the best of luck and hope you get a good price for what is lovely gear to a lot of people.

Again thank you for your post and story about the portrait shoot and lovely photos.
Po
 

MoJo

Registred Users
tim.
there are some really lovely shots in there from that turkey/greece trip!

-Josef
 

hcubell

Well-known member
I just spent two weeks in Tanzania and Rwanda with a GH2 and two lenses, the 14-140 and the 100-300. The Panasonic kit easily fit into a nice, featherweight Osprey backpack. The IQ was perfectly acceptable for smaller prints and I sure enjoyed the portability of the kit, but I really found the GH2 to be a very frustrating camera to actually operate. Too many damn menu items. Every time I set up the camera with the settings I wanted, if I then changed the iso or some other setting, other settings like white balance would change on their own. The exposure compensation was very difficult to change and then cancel out. Finally, the camera was just not responsive enough to shoot wildlife. One of my guides had a canon 7D with a 200-400 mm lens. What a huge difference. Unfortunately, there was no free lunch here.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Tim,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Your logic certainly makes sense, but it's perhaps unfortunate you decided to off this great kit BEFORE our New England workshop; I'm sure we could have shown you some techniques and solutions to harness the full potential of the IQ180 back.

Also, the SK 35 while a very good lens on the IQ160/ P65+ and earlier, some copies just don't cut it with the IQ180 -- but then some copies were better than others and apparently do work well. It's again unfortunate the one tech lens you owned was not up to the back you chose to upgrade to... A relatively simple lens change to say the Rodenstock 32 or 40 HR-W or even SK 43 might have just swayed you the other direction.

Anyway, glad you shared your thoughts and sorry it didn't work out for you. On the upside, the GH2 is a very good camera for casual handheld shooting and I'm sure it will better suit your needs.

Look forward to finally meeting you in person in New England!

Best,
 

GMB

Active member
Re: Reasons for sale

Tim,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. At the very least, you proved wrong the motto of the MF sub-forum ("Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here").

Georg
 

GMB

Active member
Will do Guy but for reasons of export tax it'll almost certainly not be economic to sell the gear to someone in the USA.
I would double check that. I am pretty certain that the UK (or to be precise: the EU) does not levy an export tax on camera gear (I do customs law, amongst others). Also, if you bought the gear as a professional (and thus effectively paid no VAT), you can sell at a price net of VAT to any customer outside the EU. Guy may have to pay import duties in the US, but that's a different story.

Georg
 
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