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Hasselblad Lunar : they go defensive

proenca

Member
Hasselblad, after receiving humongus criticism about their new Lunar camera, has gone defensive ; article on BJP :

Hasselblad: 'We're not robbing people off with Lunar camera' - British Journal of Photography

For me, I'm perplexed. Both by the announcement of the camera and by the "defensive" interview.

Hasselblad for me, which I've been a photographer for over 18 years, has meant two things :

- superb lens which translate to superb image quality
- great craftmanship and materials which translates to long long life

Lunar has none of both. Leins are generic like in Sony cameras and the craftmanship... ? Sure the sketches look fine ( in terms of finishing ) but the mock ups at Photokina looks bits of hood and carbon fiber that have the finishing finesse of... erm... edges are not polished, things do not look properly assembled, fit and finish are dreadfull.

If you want to launch a 5k camera and emphasize on the quality of the materials and show off a mockup that looks like molded clay.. oh boy..

I pick up a XPAN and I can almost feel its quality build. Even on a 20 year 500C old camera I can still see the fit and finishing are impeccable.

I really dont see that happening with a Nex7

Huge huge dissapointment for me. Kudos Leica for the M - they listened to their users and delivered what pretty much everyone wanted.
 

Mammy645

New member
Well, this is pretty much exactly the response I would expect from a management who conceived this monstrosity in the first place, complete denial. A sane management with a firm connection to it's customers would go "oh sh*t! back to the drawing board." right now. The fact that they even had to do an interview like this should be proof enough. Instead they went with "It's a new product, people don't understand, give it time and they'll love it". Seems like blindfolds are securely attached and it's full steam ahead. Kodak anyone?

 
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torger

Active member
There are a number of problems.

The mockups look like sh*t. They really do. They also convey the message that this camera is about surface only. It could be true that they really have engineered a completely new user interface and electronics and the only thing they have from Sony is the sensor and the mount. But that is not what you instinctively feel when you see this launch.

I see a poorly made attempt at making a Nex 7 into a luxury point-and-shoot for rich non-photographers. Is that what Hasselblad is about now? Fail!

It could be repaired though. If it really turns out to be a unique Hasselblad product, and this luxury gimmicky thing is played down, and there is a standard black model released at a more reasonble price. But these are the same guys that thought a Ferrari edition was a good idea for the Hasselblad brand, so I don't have much hope.

Another problem I think is that this is an APS-C camera, it is not providing the kind of look (concerning depth of field) people deeply interested in photography will want. I don't think the APS-C format is well-suited for a highly expensive camera at all.

If I'm going to buy such an expensive camera, I could just add a little bit more and get a full-frame Leica M.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
There are a number of problems.

The mockups look like sh*t. They really do. They also convey the message that this camera is about surface only. It could be true that they really have engineered a completely new user interface and electronics and the only thing they have from Sony is the sensor and the mount. But that is not what you instinctively feel when you see this launch.

I see a poorly made attempt at making a Nex 7 into a luxury point-and-shoot for rich non-photographers. Is that what Hasselblad is about now? Fail!

It could be repaired though. If it really turns out to be a unique Hasselblad product, and this luxury gimmicky thing is played down, and there is a standard black model released at a more reasonble price. But these are the same guys that thought a Ferrari edition was a good idea for the Hasselblad brand, so I don't have much hope.

Another problem I think is that this is an APS-C camera, it is not providing the kind of look (concerning depth of field) people deeply interested in photography will want. I don't think the APS-C format is well-suited for a highly expensive camera at all.
I agree with you about the mockups, but I suspect you have a never used a NEX-7. I have one, and it is quite a nice camera. It lacks two things in my experience. One is a line of first class lenses. That is now being addressed by Zeiss, among others. The other is a simple, refined user interface and set of operational controls. To generalize, the Japanese just don't seem to know how to design a camera that functions like a Leica or a Hasselblad. Perhaps the new Hasselblad will at least have a set of operational controls and a user interface more like a European designed camera rather than a video game. I would buy that camera and pay a premium for it. The issue is how much of a premium would one pay. I think Hasselblad has screwed up big time here in that all people see right now are some really poor, over the top mockups that are styled more like ugly jewelry and are priced at a ridiculous multiple of a Sony NEX-7. Hasselblad should have started with a more modestly designed version and emphasized the Hasselblad influenced operational controls and user interface. A well executed marriage of the best Japanese technology and European camera design would be a great thing.
 
W

Wim van Velzen

Guest
With more usual colours and materials, and with a more normal price, I would quite like it. Now it seems just bad.
 

Tony

New member
Well, this is pretty much exactly the response I would expect from a management who conceived this monstrosity in the first place, complete denial. A sane management with a firm connection to it's customers would go "oh sh*t! back to the drawing board." right now. The fact that they even had to do an interview like this should be proof enough. Instead they went with "It's a new product, people don't understand, give it time and they'll love it". Seems like blindfolds are securely attached and it's full steam ahead. Kodak anyone?


"Kodak anyone?"

That is exactly how I see this ending, slowly and painfully. Makes me want to take a baseball bat to my V kit.
 

Valentin

New member
The market will decide if it will be a success or a flop.

Generally, companies have more information regarding market research than individual photographers. They might have some information that you or I don't and it makes sense financially.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
They should of just let it pass and not even responded to the criticism. Business 101

Believe me we would all forget about this in about 72 hours anyway.
 

Lars

Active member
If they only hadn't mentioned a price point I think the whole thing would be dismissed as insignificant instead of hugely negative for Hasselblad's image.
 
V

Vivek

Guest

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
24 hours if you are over 60!

So I get maybe 42 for being 55. LOL

Oh wait, what where we talking about. :D


Seriously they are stepping on there on **** pile when you go on the defensive. Just let it die out, and frankly none of us are going to buy it anyway. So we really dont count, where all upset more about diluting the name and I think thats really is the bottom line for us and the thought we may never see another nickel go into MF R&D. I know almost every Hassy owner is thinking about there future in the H product line.
 

Anders_HK

Member
That kind of attempt at marketing defense is simply a load of complete B.S. and a complete ignorance and incompetence of what is market and customers. I have not read any threads like the Lunar during all years I been on internet.

Take this from their defense;

"For example, the camera's body is made of aluminum. It takes five hours to machine this down."

That is cheap, they do not even of duralumin (aircraft grade aluminum). Five hours to machine??? Using hand tools??? A CNC can do this very quick in minutes and to 0.01mm precision.

Nah, nonsense product. Let us see the responsible ones kicked. :D
 

Shashin

Well-known member
The thing that gets me is they state they are looking for a younger audience. A well built tool is not a reflection of fashion but form. A great camera works great regardless of form. No matter your age, you recognize good design. They are talking about fashion and yet they take something made for my parents generation--how is that going to get a younger crowd. They should of hired Sir Ive like Leica. I work with that younger customer and the Lunar is not going to do it for them.

But one thing is for sure, there are a lot of nervous board members right now.
 

MaxKißler

New member
"In the end, Hasselblad, with this new initiative, is hoping to attract a larger, younger audience to its range of cameras, says Stig-Nielsen. "I've been longing to talk to a younger audience of potential professionals, and I really believe the Sony name is familiar to this audience. Sony is in the gaming industry, the music industry – things that relate to a young generation. I think the Sony brand and the Lunar product is going to help spread the message about what Hasselblad is."

Being 24 years old I consider myself "young generation" so I cannot help but regard this interview (at least parts of it) as a huge personal insult! I think the most disgusting part is the admittance of the fact that these cameras are not designed with photographers in mind. Period.
Do they really believe what they claim that young professionals will be attracted to the brand because of their experiance with a Lunar?

If I understand this correctly this is what HB thinks will happen: A young person who is interested in photography has never heard of the Hasselblad brand. He/she then buys a HB Lunar camera because of the strong resemblence to a Sony NEX 7. A camera and brand name that is familiar to a young person because of the gaming and music industry (you got to be kidding me...). He/she then discovers that Hasselblad has an array of top-grade camera euipment and goes for an H series camera. Seriously, what the **** is that?

Now this is even more likely to happen: Someone who has never heard of Hasselblad before (if this is even possible...) buys a Lunar and discovers that there is no difference between a Hasselblad camera and a Sony camera. Will he/she upgrade?

Which is the more present name in the still canera industry Hasselblad or Sony? Where I live you can ask anybody on the street about camera brands and you're very likely to get Hasselblad as an answer way before somebody will mention Sony.
 

proenca

Member
I agree with Guy - it was better just to let it die ( the critics ) rather than being all defensive about it.

Again, I'm amazed how a company that want to produce a custom-tailor-made-quality-finish-camera like the Lunar presents such lousy and terrible mockups. Its just appalling the quality of those. I've looked at the pictures over and over and they just look hideous in terms of fit and finish. My plumber could do a better job with Carbon Fiber and Leather.

I know some that sometimes a new direction always raise the fundamentalist and the loyal camera base to go bananas. Leica was on the line with the launch of the M8 : was a camera that only a father could love - man it was terrible. I'm a Leica film user and M8 early adopter ( had one second day it was on the market ) and oh boy - APS-C, mangenta issues, green lines woes, clunky shutter noise, lockups, terrible LCD, battery erratic, no decent RAW converter to exploit the full potential of the files.

But bit by bit they ironed it out : coded lens profiles, green lines gone, IR silly filters, better firmware, Adobe collaboration... M8.2 polished things further and today a M9 its a full alternative respecting Leica heritage to a Leica M film camera.

But I fear there isnt much polishing to do with the Lunar - unless you go back to the drawing board. Make it a 24mp full frame camera that accept H lens and you got a whole different product.

Maybe we are missing something here, like some of you are saying : perhaps this was Hasselblad deal to have Sony sensors on the H6D. But man, what a price to pay.

It saddens me really. They could have done a XPAN digital and go head to head with Leica M. I've lurked this site for ages, drooling over Guy, Jacks, Fotografz and such photographer fantastic images with MFD and I always lusted for a H camera and its fantastic lenses but was always wary of the H camera size and weight ( used to Leica M form factor and weight :) ). When I heard about a smaller Hassy I was jumping and crossing fingers.

Man I was dissapointed when I saw the Lunar press release. And the mockup images just made me real sick.
 

pophoto

New member
I love vulgar yacht, planes and coach designs, because they really do understand what luxury living is. However, Hasselblad literally defies all aspects of design philosophies by making a over the top exuberant camera which even defies what photographers want from a camera in the first place. It is first huge, completely opposite to what R&D Sony have brought to the table. It actually reminds of student industrial design projects rather than mature Italian sport cars designs and user ergonomics.

Next if the materials are supposedly aimed at a younger audience, I'm sorry not in this economy and this younger generation would think the Sony NEX is more attractive by far and sleeker too. I'm in my mid-thirties both into classical and modern design, yet this Lunar design fits no where. If they had market researched this, I'm sorry they really don't know the process or how to filter their information. Majority of polls are taken as face value voices, if you got someone off the street who isn't even into photography and may have never even held a camera before will give you his/her voice if asked, yes such people exist. Next, most people's opinions change if they really had to put money forward into an idea, it's easy to say something, like even here on forums and not back it up.

Now with Hasselblad going defensive really says a lot about the company and the people there and maybe where they are going businesswise and this is not a good sign.

Ultimately two things stand out for me: they are a medium format company, if they consider this a compact camera for them, fine, but at least go full frame. Leica did this for the same money with Leica M-E announcement. Next address the dumb design, I would! :)
 
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