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Thread: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

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    Member JSK Rangefinder's Avatar
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    Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    Do any of you know/have some links about good factories that are used
    when outsourcing to produce pocket and 4/3rds cameras?

  2. #2
    PeterLeyssens
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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    Hi,

    You can always take a look at Jabil, they also have factories in China which is cost efficient.

    I don't think finding a producer is the hardest bit. Designing all the hardware and making it fit into a nice, attractive package is much harder. Then I'm not even talking about the software and user interface design. Don't even think about using Linux, because 1) there'll be a lot of hardware involved that Linux doesn't support, 2) Linux will be much too heavy and if you do actually manage to design a camera around a Linux based system, your battery will look more like a laptop sized one than like a camera battery.

    Care to explain your plans ?


    Peter.

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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterLeyssens View Post
    Hi,

    You can always take a look at Jabil, they also have factories in China which is cost efficient.

    I don't think finding a producer is the hardest bit. Designing all the hardware and making it fit into a nice, attractive package is much harder. Then I'm not even talking about the software and user interface design. Don't even think about using Linux, because 1) there'll be a lot of hardware involved that Linux doesn't support, 2) Linux will be much too heavy and if you do actually manage to design a camera around a Linux based system, your battery will look more like a laptop sized one than like a camera battery.

    Care to explain your plans ?


    Peter.
    I appreciate it Peter

    Design is not going to be the problem at all even though the company i talked to Camera Design is not their forte. Of course, second opinion is of huge importance to me. If you have any suggestions regarding specialized camera design biro/studios as well as software developers please advise I'll be happy to talk to them.

    Linux is out of the question because primary goal is small pocket size (with the hot shoe though), good quality sensor with the best possible performance, software to squeeze and interpret every pixel in its best possible light. But, the major concern I have is to find the (small) lens with the resolving power fit enough to perform on 49.1 mm x 36.8 mm sensor.

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    There's a company in Taiwan -- I've forgotten it's name -- that make most (all) of the cameras sold as Rollei, Minox, Voigtlander and lots of others -- I have the feeling that they have several generic designs which are 'badge engineered'.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    pocket size ?... with a sensor bigger than a leica S2 ?.... I'll have a pint of whatever you are drinking :-)

    K

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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    There's a company in Taiwan -- I've forgotten it's name -- that make most (all) of the cameras sold as Rollei, Minox, Voigtlander and lots of others -- I have the feeling that they have several generic designs which are 'badge engineered'.
    Robert, I would appreciate it very much if you could remember the name and let me know. Thank you!!

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    It might be Altek, but I'm not at all sure
    http://www.altek.com.tw/

    More info here -- courtesy of the famous search engine
    http://www.acecam.com/taiwan.html
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    I will definitely check with them what can be done and I'll see if they are the ones who made those cameras sold as Rollei, Minox, Voigtlander etc. Thanks!!

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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    pocket size ?... with a sensor bigger than a leica S2 ?.... I'll have a pint of whatever you are drinking :-)

    K
    I would rather take the camera...

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    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxmedia View Post
    I would rather take the camera...
    Then start shopping for really baggy trousers with big big pockets

    K

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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    Then start shopping for really baggy trousers with big big pockets

    K
    Darn, I knew there was a catch...

  12. #12
    PeterLeyssens
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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    Quote Originally Posted by JSK Rangefinder View Post
    Linux is out of the question because primary goal is small pocket size (with the hot shoe though)(...) But, the major concern I have is to find the (small) lens with the resolving power fit enough to perform on 49.1 mm x 36.8 mm sensor.
    As people have already pointed out below, this is a case of either/or: either you get the pocket size, or you get the big sensor.

    There is a third option, however: you could get a sensor that has an extreme setup of micro lenses. If you want your lens to stay small (because it needs to be pocketable), you will need to compensate for the light falling into sensor "pixels" at a serious angle. Sensors don't like that at all, so you'll have to put microlenses on top of each "pixel" to bend the light so it falls onto that "pixel" at a much straighter angle.

    The problem with a sensor of that size, is that you won't be able to reuse any of the common lenses. I was thinking of suggesting you to design a camera with a mount (e.g. LTM), but those lenses aren't guaranteed to cover your sensor. Adding a Hasselblad mount would be crazy, because the lenses will make the camera unpocketable. Conclusion: you'll have to design your own lens, or let another company design it for you.

    Cosina is a Japanese company that designs lots of cameras for others. Maybe lenses too, I'm not certain.

    Estimated cost for such a camera if it would ever reach the market: $5000 or more. Except if you've got really deep pockets and you can order large quantities. If you just want a few prototypes for yourself to play with, I'm quite certain none of the companies mentioned in this thread would be interested in working with you. In that case, you'd have to do everything yourself. Have fun designing the lens, the shutter mechanism, the sensor and ASICs, ... ;-)

    If you think I'm trying to dissuade you by making it sound impossible, you're partly right. It will be an extremely difficult job and I want you to realise that. But please, do go ahead. Most geniuses were called lunatics before they succeeded



    Peter.

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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    This has anything to do with 4/3rds?

  14. #14
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    Re: Outsourcing!!! Pocket Camera/4/3rds Cameras Factories?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterLeyssens View Post
    As people have already pointed out below, this is a case of either/or: either you get the pocket size, or you get the big sensor.

    There is a third option, however: you could get a sensor that has an extreme setup of micro lenses. If you want your lens to stay small (because it needs to be pocketable), you will need to compensate for the light falling into sensor "pixels" at a serious angle. Sensors don't like that at all, so you'll have to put microlenses on top of each "pixel" to bend the light so it falls onto that "pixel" at a much straighter angle.

    The problem with a sensor of that size, is that you won't be able to reuse any of the common lenses. I was thinking of suggesting you to design a camera with a mount (e.g. LTM), but those lenses aren't guaranteed to cover your sensor. Adding a Hasselblad mount would be crazy, because the lenses will make the camera unpocketable. Conclusion: you'll have to design your own lens, or let another company design it for you.

    Cosina is a Japanese company that designs lots of cameras for others. Maybe lenses too, I'm not certain.

    Estimated cost for such a camera if it would ever reach the market: $5000 or more. Except if you've got really deep pockets and you can order large quantities. If you just want a few prototypes for yourself to play with, I'm quite certain none of the companies mentioned in this thread would be interested in working with you. In that case, you'd have to do everything yourself. Have fun designing the lens, the shutter mechanism, the sensor and ASICs, ... ;-)

    If you think I'm trying to dissuade you by making it sound impossible, you're partly right. It will be an extremely difficult job and I want you to realise that. But please, do go ahead. Most geniuses were called lunatics before they succeeded



    Peter.
    We are already in contact with Cosina. As far as how difficult it is, you already know since you're quoting me but it's not impossible. Look how far RED reached, pretty soon you're gonna have 6x17 FF still and motion cameras with 250fps.. sounds impossible 3 years ago, but it's happening. Our cameras have to be small (pocket size or 4/3rds the most) now the difficulty is not how and where to make it.. our goal is to make it affordable and that might take most of the time/delay, this is precisely why we are talking about outsourcing. RED actually did great in that department considering its rivals.
    Last edited by JSK Rangefinder; 17th September 2009 at 02:36.

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