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Thread: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

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    Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Just curious how GF1 would impact olympus EP-1 From the look and build wise I am loving olympus and still hesitate to buy Panasonic due to its consumer electronic image in my mind

    How does GF1 and E-P1 compare for all practical purposes they have been build for.

    Warm Regards
    Sagar

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Isn't there a rumored Oly out there with the same form factor but a built in viewfinder and of course in body IS? That might be a GF1 killer - who knows. The killing doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon. So don't worry and dive in.

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    They are pretty much the same except:

    - EP-1 is sensor stabilized
    - The Panasonic lenses focus slightly fast on Panasonic cameras
    - Some prefer Olympus look and others prefer Panasonic look of images
    - The Panasonics have higher resolution viewfinders

    In all honesty the G1/GH1 are still technically the best and most versatile Micro 4/3 cameras unless you need a smaller form factor IMO.
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  4. #4
    ChrisJ
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    The only advantage the E-P1 has, and it's a big advantage, is the Image Stabilisation is in camera, this means that any lens you fit is Image Stabilised, even legacy manual focus ones.

    Other than that the G1/GF1 has all the pluses, auto focus help light, higher res screen, very high res viwfinder, auto focus is slow on the E-P1 even in good conditions, on the G1/GF1 it's virtually instant.

    Chris

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Why I prefer the E-P1 over the G1/GH1/GF1...

    Image Quality - this is largely down to the Olympus image processing engine, either in jpeg or Olympus Studio - colour, smooth tonal detail and noise control is the best available for m4/3rds.

    In Body Image Stabilisation - stabilisation for every lens you can fit, including all the classic legacy lenses.

    CDAF for all 4/3rds standard lenses - I have some beautiful ZD lenses which are all autofocus on the E-P1. Comparative CDAF speed is overhyped, and slow but accurate CDAF is still much better than no CDAF.

    Ergonomics - I think the E-P1 has fantastic ergonomics. everything falls within reach of my right thumb on the right side of the back panel. The silver thumbwheel is awesome, and the rotating dial around the buttons works perfectly for me...

    Configurability - this camera has the deepest, most configurable user interface I've ever used. Once it's set, you don't need to delve so deep - but having the flexibility is just what I want.

    Art Filters - I don't over-use them, but when they're appropriate, they can lift an image very nicely! the B&W grainy and pinhole filters are my favourites.

    Style - this is a camera I'll want to use long after it's been superseded by some newer technological box.

    Apart from that, there's practically no difference

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  6. #6
    OzRay
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    If you use manual focus lenses, as many do, the focus issue is pretty much moot; however, don't think that this is the best that Olympus can do, they've been in the game as long as anyone and a lot longer than many latter day electronics companies. And they've proven a lot of 'experts' wrong, as they are still here today, with their 'tiny' format.

    Cheers

    Ray

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    I am happy with my E-P1 and appreciate the in-body image stabilisation which I use with a variety of old manual focus lenses including Olympus OM 28 f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4 and Schneider 40mm f/1.9 lenses.

    Certainly the E-P1 could be improved in a couple of areas but I don't miss the onboard flash. I have the FL14 flash which is very compact and a good match for the camera. The onboard flash on the GF1 is too weak for kit zoom lenses unless you crank up the ISO.

    I would like to see faster autofocus but I would use my camera on MF more often than not and a higher resolution LCD which doesn't lose colour when the light falls would be nice but I can manage quite well as it is.

    I think both cameras have a place and certainly the GF1 looks good on paper but I would still pick the E-P1 for the on-body IS.

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Why I prefer the E-P1 over the G1/GH1/GF1...

    Image Quality - this is largely down to the Olympus image processing engine, either in jpeg or Olympus Studio - colour, smooth tonal detail and noise control is the best available for m4/3rds.

    In Body Image Stabilisation - stabilisation for every lens you can fit, including all the classic legacy lenses.

    CDAF for all 4/3rds standard lenses - I have some beautiful ZD lenses which are all autofocus on the E-P1. Comparative CDAF speed is overhyped, and slow but accurate CDAF is still much better than no CDAF.

    Ergonomics - I think the E-P1 has fantastic ergonomics. everything falls within reach of my right thumb on the right side of the back panel. The silver thumbwheel is awesome, and the rotating dial around the buttons works perfectly for me...

    Configurability - this camera has the deepest, most configurable user interface I've ever used. Once it's set, you don't need to delve so deep - but having the flexibility is just what I want.

    Art Filters - I don't over-use them, but when they're appropriate, they can lift an image very nicely! the B&W grainy and pinhole filters are my favourites.

    Style - this is a camera I'll want to use long after it's been superseded by some newer technological box.

    Apart from that, there's practically no difference

    Kind Regards

    Brian
    Bravo Brian, spoken like a true blue Olympus Sales Rep..

  9. #9
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    ...or someone who knows why he prefers one camera over another

    Please, if you have anything sensible to add to the discussion - fire away

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    I am eagerly looking forward to a "G1 killer".

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    ...or someone who knows why he prefers one camera over another

    Please, if you have anything sensible to add to the discussion - fire away

    Cheers

    Brian
    Anything sensible, hum. Well, I can say the truth as I see it, because I have nothing to gain or loose in the process. Nothing personal Brian, but my experience with the EP1 is vastly different than yours. I'm just a user of cameras and not trying to promote or put down anyone. If it works good, I give it a thumbs up, if not, a thumbs down, like Siskel and Ebert

    My impression, after using the EP1, was that it reminded me of a shiny-to the point of being gawdy- flimsy, squish in your hand, when you squeeze it, made in Pakistan pocket knife, from the mid 1980's.

    The focus wheel, on the flimsy kit zoom could not even be touched ( cradled in the hand) without the zoom feature on the LCD zooming back and fourth to no end. The focus seemed fine, if I had a few seconds with a non moving subject. If the subject was moving, then there was a slim chance of getting the whole subject in the frame, in focus, before the shutter clicked.

    As far as image quality being superior, well I would say that the out of camera jpegs from my Panasonic TS1 at 28 mm seemed to be at least as good, color, contrast and sharpness wise. I never got a chance to see the raw files.

    So, I think the GF1 would have to be complete and utter junk, not to easily best the EP1 and recent reports lead me to believe that it does.

    The EP1 was rushed to market and was not ready, in my opinion. I have nothing against Olympus, I've used them since the film days, but I lost a little faith, after the EP1 release. Was that sensible?

  12. #12
    thearne3
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Clay -

    Never having handled a Pakistan pocket knife, I can still get your drift...

    The clear implication of your remarks is that you consider the E-P1 'complete and utter junk'. Fine. It's fair to say yours is the minority view. All reviews I have read give the E-P1 very high marks - along with a list of things they'd like to see changed/improved.

    Are the changes in the GF-1 enough to make it a 'slam dunk' choice over the E-p1? I don't think so - largely for the reasons Brian has already noted. They simply have different strengths and weaknesses.

    Apparently, it's no contest for you...

    Kind regards,
    Tom

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Hi Tom. If it was just for manual focus lenses, then other than the gawdy exterior shell it would probably be fine.

    The EP1 as an AF camera - which by the way, is probably how Olympus intended it to be used, since they are not making MF lenses right now- is not something I would spend my money on again.

    I think telling would be buyers that it is a all around great camera is not exactly good information, as I suspect there are more than just one person that has buyers remorse after getting this camera.

    I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just tend to forget that it's better to keep them to myself on the internet forums.

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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    I found the E-P1 to be style over substance. That isn't saying it doesn't have substance, but rather that it has a lot of style. But I think it falls short of the Panny 4/3 offerings wrt performance, especially AF. I found file quality between G1 and E-P1 to be about a wash, but preferred the "look" of the E-P1 jpgs. Since Aperture didn't support the raw files, I didn't shoot much raw (I have Raw Developer, just don't find it fits in my workflow very well).

    I think I'm holding out for the X1 actually and may pass on both Panny and Oly offerings for my "small/light/hi-quality" rig.

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    Anything sensible, hum. Well, I can say the truth as I see it, because I have nothing to gain or loose in the process. Nothing personal Brian, but my experience with the EP1 is vastly different than yours. I'm just a user of cameras and not trying to promote or put down anyone. If it works good, I give it a thumbs up, if not, a thumbs down, like Siskel and Ebert
    Well, for someone not trying to put down anyone, you had a good stab at it!

    I can say the truth as I see it too... and not expect the kind of character assassination we see plebs get away with on dpreview.

    This neighbourhood seems to be on the slide, let's keep it civil please

    Cheers

    Brian

  16. #16
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    Anything sensible, hum. Well, I can say the truth as I see it, because I have nothing to gain or loose in the process.

    My impression, after using the EP1, was that it reminded me of a shiny-to the point of being gawdy- flimsy, squish in your hand, when you squeeze it, made in Pakistan pocket knife, from the mid 1980's.

    So, I think the GF1 would have to be complete and utter junk, not to easily best the EP1 and recent reports lead me to believe that it does.

    The EP1 was rushed to market and was not ready, in my opinion. I have nothing against Olympus, I've used them since the film days, but I lost a little faith, after the EP1 release. Was that sensible?
    I'm glad you said '...truth as you see it...', because that sets the baseline for your ramble. Firstly, you need to understand the difference between truth and opinion. You have stated an 'opinion', not a 'truth', though in your own mind it clearly appears as truth (or fact).

    The rest then firmly establishes that the '...truth as you see it...' is quite distorted from the point of view of probably most of the 'world plus dog'. I'm wondering whether it was actually an EP-1 that you held, as I've never heard anyone even remotely suggest that it's '...flimsy, squishy...' and mine certainly is not. Either that, or you must have ham hocks for hands where nothing but something cast from a solid block of iron would seem solid to you.

    As for the GF1 having to be complete junk, you are clearly inferring that the EP-1 'is' junk. Again the '...truth as you see it...' appears to be that of someone with a completely distorted vision. I have never read anywhere, other than from you, that the EP-1 is considered junk. It may not tick all the boxes that some may judge it by, but wider opinions do appear somewhat more rational than yours.

    Your opinion certainly does cover a wide number of aspects relating to the EP-1. The huge sales success though, appears to be another verification that maybe it wasn't brought to market too early and perhaps you should re-evaluate your opinions.

    But then, opinions are like a*seholes, everyone has one. Fortunately, the only place where they seem to always be on display are on forums.

    Cheers

    Ray

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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    @ Decisive Monemtum: what is that rumour (re. Oly with finder) you mention? Can you point me to a link?

    Re. Ray's
    opinions are like a*seholes, everyone has one
    the key bit left out (IMHO) is: because this is the case, the question to ask is "What makes this opinion more useful/valuable/relevant than the other?"

    And on a related note, trying to find the difference between truth and opinion has been the main occupation of philosophers since the ancient Greeks!

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    They are both good cameras. I tried out the GF1 this past weekend for a short spell. It's nice but I prefer and actually need the IS.
    The 20mm is wonderful and on the Pen with the IS, it's a great combo.....

    p.s.
    To all you Aussies'...
    Congrats on bringing home your last hero from the Nam......

    You should all be proud of that....I know I am....
    Don

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    To all you Aussies'...
    Congrats on bringing home your last hero from the Nam......

    You should all be proud of that....I know I am....
    Don
    you know the sad thing is we seem to be creating our new Nam in Afganistan right now ... funny how people never learn from the past

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    you know the sad thing is we seem to be creating our new Nam in Afganistan right now ... funny how people never learn from the past
    I only posted because Australia has been relentless in it's efforts to recover the last MIA. It took over 40 years but they never forgot.

    End of issue....back to the 2 great cameras...
    Shooter

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Perhaps the thread title engendered a bit of this less civil than usual debate here.

    Diane

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    I would say cool it so I don't have to lock my first thread!

    Not worried about the political differences or differences in opinion (I've been pretty open about this topic) it is the "everyone has one" type comment that is uncalled for.
    Last edited by Terry; 29th September 2009 at 05:22.

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Does anyone have the finder for the GF1?
    I mean the one for the 20mm not the EVF.

    That lens is great and I was wondering how the camera is with the finder.
    Don

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    .. I suspect there are more than just one person that has buyers remorse after getting this camera.

    If you have followed this board and the BS section (BS = Buy/Sell ) you have the answer to that.

    I wish Oly would come up something competitive. I doubt they have the drive or the capability.

    I sincerely hope they would prove my thinking wrong.

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    Does anyone have the finder for the GF1?
    I mean the one for the 20mm not the EVF.

    That lens is great and I was wondering how the camera is with the finder.
    Don
    If you mean a Panny finder for the 20, there is only the EVF. The alternatives we have brought up are things like my Voigtlander 35mm VF, but they are not Panny's finders. Oly has a finder for the 17 f/2.8, but Panasonic went the EVF route only.

    Diane

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If you have followed this board and the BS section (BS = Buy/Sell ) you have the answer to that.

    I wish Oly would come up something competitive. I doubt they have the drive or the capability.

    I sincerely hope they would prove my thinking wrong.
    Hi Vivek, apart from HG/SHG lenses (and we do have the option of Panasonic/Leica lenses for m4/3rds) - what would Olympus need to do with the E-P1 to make it competitive for you?

    I'm really interested, because apart from the overhyped CDAF speed difference, I'm struggling to see what's missing?

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Brian,
    I am one of the people that had the E-P1 and sold it quickly. I haven't said much because I don't want to sound like I'm knocking a camera that other people are enjoying.
    Personally, I mostly shoot manual focus lenses, so the speed of the AF was not a factor in my decision. I just could not manual focus in bright sun with the E-P1. I could not tolerate the fact that manual focus assist required that extra button press.
    I look forward to the next generation. I hope it has a removable EVF and a more thought-out manual focus assist.
    On the plus side, I love the Oly colors and welcomed IS. The little 17 f/2.8 was a sharp lens... (but it was a little slow and the build seemed flimsy).

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Ok, Brian and Ray, you guys are both right, it's a great camera and I'm wrong.

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Group hug, everyone?

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    I will probably follow suit and sell my E-P1 for the same reason in that manual focus is poorly thought out and in bright sunlight the LCD is impossible to use so I just point and shoot. I will definitely miss the in body IS and the JPGs out of the camera are really good, much better than the ones from the G1 both in color and sharpness. The big Panny negative is the lack of in body IS, the down grade in the EVF (give me the better one even if it costs more) and the lack of .RW2 support in C1 or Bibble Pro. It seems only LR has any support and when it comes to PP it seems to do the worst job IMHO.
    V/r John

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Hi Vivek, apart from HG/SHG lenses (and we do have the option of Panasonic/Leica lenses for m4/3rds) - what would Olympus need to do with the E-P1 to make it competitive for you?

    I'm really interested, because apart from the overhyped CDAF speed difference, I'm struggling to see what's missing?

    Cheers

    Brian
    Brian, I was one of those who was eagerly anticipating the Oly m4/3rds and was bitterly disappointed to see what was under that curtain.

    What was missing for me:

    1. A decent quality TFT screen (Oly did not understand that the whole live view depends on it and can not throw in a E-410 class TFT screen on the back of a m4/3rds camera. Full credit to Panasonic!)

    2. Swivel/articulating TFT. (Again, Full credit to Panasonic!)

    3. A decent EVF in place of video feature. (Yet again, Full credit to Panasonic!)

    These would have done it for me in a Oly m4/3rds cam.

    In comparison, the TFT screen and the EVF alone is worth more the street prices of a Panasonic G1.

    (I was also surprised, given oly's track record of "a camera a month", that they did not come up with several different models with different price tags.)

    Matching colored straps and camera bags? I think those are best left to the Luigis and the Zhous or HelloKitty.

    Now, the image quality, as you point out in this thread, is better in an E-P1 than a G1. This is admirable.

    It would have been much appreciated had it been designed as a studio camera.

    The key: TFT and EVF for a mirrorless cam using live view. If anyone falls short on that, no art filters will be help.

    I forgot to add: Olympus can learn a thing or two from Panasonic on how to make a lens!

    Amazing as it sounds, the great Olympus with all its great reputation on "optics" is beaten hands down by a potential camera maker! This is not considering the auto focus aspect.
    Last edited by Vivek; 29th September 2009 at 08:46.

  32. #32
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    OK, I understand - you wanted a G1 competitor... when the E-P1 was released, I had this strange idea that Olympus and Panasonic were cooperating on a successful launch of m4/3rds, with the arrival of the GF1 - a direct competitor to the E-P1 it looks like we're in for some exciting competition - a very good thing imho... can't wait for a more expensive m4/3rds cam from Olympus.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Group hug, everyone?
    rawfa ... glad to see you're still hanging around. Did you see the thread suggesting that dcresource had also identified a blur issue with specific shutter speeds on the E-P1??

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    My opinion is that I don get why the GF1 and the EP-1 are both more significantly (for what the cameras are) expensive than the G1 and they both seem to have scaled back on features (save for video that I don't care about.)

    I don't want a camera that's more expensive unless it actually adds something to improve IQ and maybe gives us weather sealing. Nothing else really matters beyond the picture taking ability. If it's using the same sensor I don't see how they can justify a huge jump in price outside of including a premium optic i.e. GH1.
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    My opinion is that I don get why the GF1 and the EP-1 are both more significantly (for what the cameras are) expensive than the G1 and they both seem to have scaled back on features (save for video that I don't care about.)

    I don't want a camera that's more expensive unless it actually adds something to improve IQ and maybe gives us weather sealing. Nothing else really matters beyond the picture taking ability. If it's using the same sensor I don't see how they can justify a huge jump in price outside of including a premium optic i.e. GH1.
    Agreed, but I suspect that's why Pana discontinued the G1 so it doesn't compete directly with the GF-1. So in terms of manufacturer models, the GF-1 fits below the GH-1. The high prices also reflect initial supply and demand, and early adopters always end up paying the premium price for a new product. Prices should come down over time.

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    OK, I understand - you wanted a G1 competitor... when the E-P1 was released, I had this strange idea that Olympus and Panasonic were cooperating on a successful launch of m4/3rds, with the arrival of the GF1 - a direct competitor to the E-P1 it looks like we're in for some exciting competition - a very good thing imho... can't wait for a more expensive m4/3rds cam from Olympus.

    Cheers

    Brian

    I do not think Olympus have to worry about Panasonic or vice versa. Once (if) Sony cams with EXMOR-R sensors hit the market, for example, the whole of m4/3rds- blind or with whatever view finders, will all look like toy cams.

    Even a Ricoh cam with an APS-C sized CMOS sensor would do it, no need for the EXMOR-R or something fancy like that.

    More expensive Olympus camera? Yeah, that will hammer yet another nail in the coffin.

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by photoSmart42 View Post
    Agreed, but I suspect that's why Pana discontinued the G1 so it doesn't compete directly with the GF-1. So in terms of manufacturer models, the GF-1 fits below the GH-1. The high prices also reflect initial supply and demand, and early adopters always end up paying the premium price for a new product. Prices should come down over time.
    Interestingly enough when I bought my G1 people were complaining about it being too expensive. I didn't think it was--I paid $500 for the G9 as an early adopter and $530 for the G1--with a very good lens (from an Ebay auction but lots of us bought them around that price).

    Nothing has been said, that I know of, about the G1 being discontinued and its still available most every place, but it does make sense to have the GF1 sit below the GH1. People seem determined to compare the GH1 with the lower tier of DSLRs but I didn't and don't really see them as apples/apples. The GH1 in particular seems unique and the E-P1 and GF1 are variants on the theme, but offer other options (primarily the form). Then both of these were offered with pancake lenses which appealed to people that might not have bought into the m4/3rds.

    All in all, prices don't seem outrageous for most of the system--a bit higher than some, but not out of line for a new system--and--as said, supply and demand (though that seems a bit manipulated).

    Diane

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    If you mean a Panny finder for the 20, there is only the EVF. The alternatives we have brought up are things like my Voigtlander 35mm VF, but they are not Panny's finders. Oly has a finder for the 17 f/2.8, but Panasonic went the EVF route only.

    Diane
    Diane,
    Thanks. I thought maybe they'd make a finder for the lens.
    I have the 17 and finder but that 20mm is really a great lens.
    With no finder it's useless to me.

    Thanks again....shooter

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    Diane,
    Thanks. I thought maybe they'd make a finder for the lens.
    I have the 17 and finder but that 20mm is really a great lens.
    With no finder it's useless to me.

    Thanks again....shooter
    There are lots of finders available that will work for that FL. My CV 35mm works just great for 17 and 20 (bright lines for 35 which is almost perfect for 17). There are others also. Godfrey mentioned one the other day--can't remember what it was though.

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    ... funny how people never learn from the past
    What experience and history teach is this - that people and governments never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.
    G. W. F. Hegel
    and more of the same at

    http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/histo...f_history.html
    Sláinte

    Robert.

  41. #41
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Interestingly enough when I bought my G1 people were complaining about it being too expensive. I didn't think it was--I paid $500 for the G9 as an early adopter and $530 for the G1--with a very good lens (from an Ebay auction but lots of us bought them around that price).

    Nothing has been said, that I know of, about the G1 being discontinued and its still available most every place, but it does make sense to have the GF1 sit below the GH1. People seem determined to compare the GH1 with the lower tier of DSLRs but I didn't and don't really see them as apples/apples. The GH1 in particular seems unique and the E-P1 and GF1 are variants on the theme, but offer other options (primarily the form). Then both of these were offered with pancake lenses which appealed to people that might not have bought into the m4/3rds.

    All in all, prices don't seem outrageous for most of the system--a bit higher than some, but not out of line for a new system--and--as said, supply and demand (though that seems a bit manipulated).

    Diane
    I bought my 2 lens G1 kit for about $875 shipped so that's why I think the GF1/EP-1 is slightly overpriced (no not retail value but that was the going price.) I think it's a good deal @$650-750. At $900 plus whatever the EVF is going for I'd look even more closely at the G1 or GH1 if I wanted to get into Micro 4/3 personally. I'm interested in the 20mm, 45mm Macro, and 7-14mm lenses myself still but I think I will just get those separately.
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    @ Decisive Monemtum: what is that rumour (re. Oly with finder) you mention? Can you point me to a link?
    See this thread. Also a search on EP-2 should bring some more stuff up.

  43. #43
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    People expected way to much from the Pen and then when it didn't deliver everything they wanted, it was a much more significant blow and the kick back has been way greater than it should have been. Those that have accepted it for what it is, are doing well with the camera. I believe that the Pen was fully intended as a tribute to the original Pen, and Maitani, and not as the final word in m4/3s from Olympus.

    Olympus is much more forward looking than many give it credit and they have ridden almost a continuous wave of negative comment since they first put out the E1. That hasn't stopped them from going on and producing outstanding cameras and lenses. The compromises that were made with the original two lenses will be forgotten when they start to bring out the more traditional ones, and they will come.

    All credit to Panasonic for bringing out great m4/3s cameras and staying with 4/3s, but it's easier to do so when there's only one line of cameras/lenses to consider; Olympus still has to maintain the 4/3s line as well, because it caters to a completely different user.

    Cheers

    Ray

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by OzRay View Post
    People expected way to much from the Pen and then when it didn't deliver everything they wanted, it was a much more significant blow and the kick back has been way greater than it should have been. Those that have accepted it for what it is, are doing well with the camera. I believe that the Pen was fully intended as a tribute to the original Pen, and Maitani, and not as the final word in m4/3s from Olympus.

    Olympus is much more forward looking than many give it credit and they have ridden almost a continuous wave of negative comment since they first put out the E1. That hasn't stopped them from going on and producing outstanding cameras and lenses. The compromises that were made with the original two lenses will be forgotten when they start to bring out the more traditional ones, and they will come.

    All credit to Panasonic for bringing out great m4/3s cameras and staying with 4/3s, but it's easier to do so when there's only one line of cameras/lenses to consider; Olympus still has to maintain the 4/3s line as well, because it caters to a completely different user.

    Cheers

    Ray
    I agree that people are sometimes overly critical of the EP-1 but I think a lot of that has to do with where the G1 set the bar. Love or hate the form factor it was built with function in mind first.

    I can't speak for others but I wasn't prepared to pay more for a screen with lower resolution, without articulating ability, and without a serious EVF option just to gain sensor based IS. The flash accessory being tacked on didn't help (kinda like the removable EVF doesn't help the GF1.) Believe me I really wanted to like the EP-1 for a D-Lux 4 replacement but the specs/ price alone killed the idea off before it was released.
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    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    My problem with the e-p1... is too many easily mis-hit buttons.... it is really getting in the way of me getting to fall in love with the camera. Some times i look enviously at the simplicity of the Leica M8.... but then i wake up... :-)
    K

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I do not think Olympus have to worry about Panasonic or vice versa. Once (if) Sony cams with EXMOR-R sensors hit the market, for example, the whole of m4/3rds- blind or with whatever view finders, will all look like toy cams.

    Even a Ricoh cam with an APS-C sized CMOS sensor would do it, no need for the EXMOR-R or something fancy like that.

    More expensive Olympus camera? Yeah, that will hammer yet another nail in the coffin.
    I'm inclined to agree with you Vivek, I see Sony as the one to watch in this segment... if they decide they want it, they could well go in aggressively. I still have my Sony R1

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    My problem with the e-p1... is too many easily mis-hit buttons.... it is really getting in the way of me getting to fall in love with the camera. Some times i look enviously at the simplicity of the Leica M8.... but then i wake up... :-)
    K
    Did you ever try a "stinking" G1? I love it, exept for the lack of a dedicated magnification button for MF lenses, but no love is perfect.
    Michiel

  48. #48
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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I agree that people are sometimes overly critical of the EP-1 but I think a lot of that has to do with where the G1 set the bar. Love or hate the form factor it was built with function in mind first.

    I can't speak for others but I wasn't prepared to pay more for a screen with lower resolution, without articulating ability, and without a serious EVF option just to gain sensor based IS. The flash accessory being tacked on didn't help (kinda like the removable EVF doesn't help the GF1.) Believe me I really wanted to like the EP-1 for a D-Lux 4 replacement but the specs/ price alone killed the idea off before it was released.
    It's always going to be a case of 'horses for courses', with some degree of compromise. I didn't want any of the Panasonic offerings, because I didn't want another DSLR shaped camera, no matter how small. The E3 has a articulating screen, but the number of times I've used it could be counted in one hand, and it's always turned around facing the body. I don't know how good the flash on the GF1 is going to be, but I've never been happy with any pop-up flash on any camera that I've owned. I think the Pen follow-up will be interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis
    My problem with the e-p1... is too many easily mis-hit buttons.... it is really getting in the way of me getting to fall in love with the camera. Some times i look enviously at the simplicity of the Leica M8.... but then i wake up... :-)
    K
    You can lock that feature and never have those issues, it's one of the first things that I did. The super control function (the OK) button will give you quick access to any setting that you may want to change.

    Cheers

    Ray

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    michiel

    i did hold a g1 in a shop... but as it didn't actually feel much smaller than my 510 it was a no go...

    as for the stinking reference... well that was not a comment on the g1... more an amusing nod to a line in Mel Brooks film Blazing Saddles "Badges... we dont need no stinking badges".

    At the time I started that thread there was a hysteria around the G1 that was drowning everything else out... it actually turned out to be a fun thread...

    cheers
    K

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    Re: Is GF1 is E-P1 killer?

    Ray

    I have managed to lock out the scroll wheel ( actually mapped it to flash compensation.... no flash no problem :-)

    I actually defended olympus here on their user interface - but with the e-p1 they lost the plot. I can drive Photoshop, Final Cut, Logic, and any other bit of software you care to mention... but the E-P1 is a dog.

    so sad

    K

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