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Thread: GF-1 viewfinder

  1. #51
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Ianinmurray, are you one of those Brits that got the GF1 and EVF?? --or did you order it from Ebay also??
    Diane - It pains me to tell you that I bought the EVF on eBay. In fact, I had it for almost a week before the camera arrived, which, I think you'll agree, is even more frustrating than being in your anxious state. Anyhow, I hope your EVF arrives soon. I know you won't be disappointed.

  2. #52
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Diane
    I did not quickly come to the decision to order the EVF from Ebay for the profit those guys charge, but, after living through the G1 fiasco, seeing the GH1 fiasco, i knew that if i wanted one before the camera was obsolete, i had to go there. Those damn camera sharks overseas know what they are doing to us poor folk over here waiting.<G>

    By the way, i do not know if anyone has tried the Panny SD card yet, but i got a 8 Gig class 10 from B&H, and i do not think i can snap enough pics fast enough to slow it down. Never seen that before.

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by ecsh View Post
    By the way, i do not know if anyone has tried the Panny SD card yet, but i got a 8 Gig class 10 from B&H, and i do not think i can snap enough pics fast enough to slow it down. Never seen that before.
    Would you be kind enough to put the camera in burst mode Raw only (no jpeg) and count how many images it can fire off in the burst before it slows down to where it has to clear out space on the buffer. On a Trascend class 6 I get about 6 and I have a Sandisk Extreme III that gets 7. Would love to see what the new fast cards can do.

    Thanks,
    Terry

  4. #54
    Senior Member ecsh's Avatar
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Interesting. In JPEG, you cannot fill it fast enough. Just RAW, 7 shots and it stops. Would have thought it would be more than that.

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by iainmurray View Post
    Diane - It pains me to tell you that I bought the EVF on eBay. In fact, I had it for almost a week before the camera arrived, which, I think you'll agree, is even more frustrating than being in your anxious state. Anyhow, I hope your EVF arrives soon. I know you won't be disappointed.
    Yes, that would be worse

    I just read on another forum that that particular person (who had just gotten it today from Ebay/Japan) didn't feel one could MF with the EVF. I've read conflicting reports from others with it, but I suspect it's more about getting used to it. I'm planning to MF plus compose and use AF. I don't expect wonders, just usable.

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Mine should be here tomorrow or Friday as it has now cleared customs in SF today and is in transit south to Southern CA where I live.
    V/r John

  7. #57
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Now that somebody's got the EVF, how about an effort to identify the connector it uses?

    Going solely by the pictures I've seen, I'm wondering if it isn't a Mini-VGA connector of the type used on some Apple and Sony laptop computers...?

    If it is, it opens up the possibility of using the EVF separately from the camera via an extension cable, which might be cool for some applications. For example, you could clip the EVF to your glasses and roam the urban landscape like some kind of street-shooting cyborg...

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    I looked closely at the connector under magnification and it does not appear to be the mini-VGA connector. All of its contacts are in a row on the top portion of the connector. I didn't count the pins but there appear to be quite a few and very small.
    V/r John

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Don't forget the LVF is drawing power from the camera through that connection. So, I would doubt it would be the same as a video hookup.

  10. #60
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Barjohn, thanks for checking. Guess that's one possibility off the list.

    TEB, I didn't think it would be same pinouts as mini-VGA, I just wondered if they're using some sort of industry-standard connector. Of course, Panasonic certainly has enough clout to define a proprietary connector if they want.

    But it would be handy to know if this were a commercially-available connector, in which case those with strong solder-fu could order a male/female set from an electronics supplier, splice them onto a cable, and make a handy extender. If nothing else, this could be a solution to the already-noted problem of how to use a shoe-mount flash and the EVF at the same time...

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    If it is, it opens up the possibility of using the EVF separately from the camera via an extension cable, which might be cool for some applications.
    Cool idea, but it is very unlikely that it is engineered to pass the signals beyond a very, very short distance. There is no reason to over-spec that, especially as it would entail more space and power.

    It might not be optimal, but the solution is already present... the LCD.

    Cheers,

  12. #62
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Yes, that would be worse

    I just read on another forum that that particular person (who had just gotten it today from Ebay/Japan) didn't feel one could MF with the EVF. I've read conflicting reports from others with it, but I suspect it's more about getting used to it. I'm planning to MF plus compose and use AF. I don't expect wonders, just usable.
    Diane, I repeat - you won't be disappointed and I am sure your modest expectations will be surpassed. I say that because I, too, didn't have exalted hopes for the GF1 EVF simply because it is small and since I wear glasses to correct chronic short-sightedness, I feared that I would not be able to see the entire frame through the viewfinder (which has been my experience with almost every Leica optical finder). I need not have worried - I can see the whole frame through the GF1's EVF, just as I can with the G1's. Also, the image is clear and smooth (unlike the pixelated EFV on the Richol GX100, which I didn't like at all). And I insist that yes, you can manual focus through it. The magnification works just as it does on the LCD, and if I - a nephew of Mr Magoo - can focus with it I'm darn sure you can. Best Iain.

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Iain,

    Thanks so much for your observations on this. I have the EVF on order and should have my GF1 today. I've been following this issue carefully as I can't stand holding a camera out in front of me. I was pretty convinced that the EVF would work given the fact that we were able to focus quite nicely with the Digilux 2 which had an EVF fairly similar in resolution.

    Cheers,

  14. #64
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Is there a way to turn off the info in the finder?
    Just wondering if ya can get a clean view.
    Don

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    This all sounds very encouraging.

    I should have my GF1 in the next week, and my EVF who knows when, but I am looking forward to using it with my Leica M lenses, as I have been doing with my G1.

    As long as the image in the EVF is clear enough to be able to obtain sharp focus with manual lenses, it will be fine. I don't plan to use it to display slide shows for my friends.
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    Is there a way to turn off the info in the finder?
    Just wondering if ya can get a clean view.
    Don
    Yes, you can turn off the information in the EVF, just as you can in the LCD itself. In fact, they both work together.

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    Iain,

    Thanks so much for your observations on this. I have the EVF on order and should have my GF1 today. I've been following this issue carefully as I can't stand holding a camera out in front of me. I was pretty convinced that the EVF would work given the fact that we were able to focus quite nicely with the Digilux 2 which had an EVF fairly similar in resolution.

    Cheers,
    Thank you, Simon. I hope you will be as contented with the EFV as I am. Iain.

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    All good. Thanks so much for elaborating. I wish they would show up in the US, but patience is a virtue---isn't it???? LOL.

    Diane

  19. #69
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by iainmurray View Post
    The magnification works just as it does on the LCD, and if I - a nephew of Mr Magoo - can focus with it I'm darn sure you can.
    The great thing about the G1's internal EVF is that its sharpness and pixel count are so high that usually you can focus manually without resorting to the magnification (or at least I can.) I shot all the photos in this post using this technique, and think I pretty much nailed the focus on all of them -- with an f/1.1 lens -- so I'm reasonably confident in it.

    How do you think you're doing with the GF1 EVF when you don't use the focus-assist feature? If you haven't tried it, maybe you could experiment a bit when you get the chance...?

    The thing that interests me most about the GF1/EVF combo is the fact that the EVF tilts; I can think of a lot of situations in which holding the camera at chest level and looking down into the EVF (as you might do with a DSLR and right-angle finder attachment) would be handy and/or comfortable. If the EVF is good enough to allow manual focus without magnification when used this way, that would be a big point in the GF1's favor for me.

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    I just received my EVF and here are my first impressions. The image is much better than I expected based on the specs. The resolution is good enough that you (I) must strain to see the pixels. I have looked at other EVFs like on the Canon Super Zooms and there the pixels are clearly evident, here they are not. The color and brightness appear to be very good and the information display matches the rear LCD. The diopter adjustment worked well. MF appears to be fairly easy both at first level magnification and second level. The tilt feature is super! All in all I am more pleased than I expected to be. While I no longer have my G1 to compare the two side by side, it appears to be very close and it is quick. The black out is identical to the rear LCD, which is a blink with auto review off. It isn't as high a resolution as the back LCD but from a practical standpoint it is close. The only time I see any LCD delay and I see the same delay on both the viewfinder and the rear LCD is in continuous shoot mode shooting RAW + JPG L, until the buffer is empty the LCD staggers (jumps from image to image) well behind where it is optically pointed. In single shot mode it is ready to go faster than I am.

    Bottom line I think most of you will really like it and a few of you won't. I like it an it appears that it will do what I need it to do.
    V/r John

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    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Good to hear, John, thanks!

    Cheers,

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    One more thing I just discovered. In very low light (f1.7, 1.6 sec exposure level) there is no real visible noise in the viewfinder and the image as seen through the viewfinder is much brighter than the image seen with the naked eye. It is almost like color night vision goggles. My memory could be playing tricks on me but my recollection on the G1 was that the image became very noisy and the color washed out to almost B&W. On this VF the color is reduced in this low light but still very visible. With the E-P1 in this low light level the noise level on the LCD was so bad as to make it barely viewable at all. Even at 5x magnification the noise is not sufficient to keep one from MF the lens. At 10x it is more visible but not to the point that I couldn't MF the lens.

    If I am wrong on the G1, someone pipe in and correct me.
    V/r John

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    John,
    I'm not sure if you are making use jealous or impatient. Waiting for mine to arrive but I have some time to wait as I didn't want to order from Japan.

    terry

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    John,
    I'm not sure if you are making use jealous or impatient. Waiting for mine to arrive but I have some time to wait as I didn't want to order from Japan.

    terry
    Jealous --I decided after I said patience was a virtue earlier--that it isn't

  25. #75
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Both.
    Ron Smith
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Jealous --I decided after I said patience was a virtue earlier--that it isn't
    Yes, maturity is sooooo boring... I want it NOW!

    Ciao,

  27. #77
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    A quote from the photographyblog review-
    "Manual focus users need not apply though, as the resolution of the live view finder isn't high enough to allow for accurate focusing - thankfully the rear LCD screen is much better for this. Another downside of the GF1's EVF accessory occurs indoors in low light, as it has to "gain-up" to produce a usable picture, resulting in a noticeably grainier picture. Compared to the fantastic high-resolution electronic view finders of the G1 and GH1, this optional accessory trails in a rather distant last place."


    http://www.photographyblog.com/revie...mc_gf1_review/

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Yes I read that blog but I have to disagree. I was a little wary in ordering it because of that particular blog post. I had the G1 and I had the E-P1 and while my recall on the G1 is from further back, I remember that in very low light it was very noisy though the scene was much brighter. It was the same on the rear LCD. However, compared to the E-P1 it was fantastic as the E-P1 screen in low light was unusable due to the high noise level. I was pleasantly surprised when I got the GF1 (before I got the EVF) at the low noise on the LCD in low light. The EVF has even surprised me more. I went to a camera store to look through an EVF for a different camera that had similar specs on resolution and the large pixels were very obvious so that was what I was expecting. I thought at the time, not very good, not sure if I can use this to MF but at least I can use it to frame when the LCD is washed out. Thus, I was greatly surprised that this EVF looked nothing like that. Sure it has pixels but they are tiny and the image very closely matches what you see on the rear LCD for quality. I think the G! viewfinder is probably larger and that may make it a little easier to use. I will be interested to read what some of you find when you get yours, especially those of you with a G1 or GH1. It could be my old brain isn't working as well as it should be.
    V/r John

  29. #79
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    This guy doesn't like it either. And he has a blog! Everybody knows that the World Internet Council doesn't allow you to have a blog unless you are really smart and knowledgeable. So he must be right...

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    This guy doesn't like it either. And he has a blog! Everybody knows that the World Internet Council doesn't allow you to have a blog unless you are really smart and knowledgeable. So he must be right...
    I just read the blog--Ah--well, those of us that use the G1's very very good EVF know that often the colors are 'off'--that really doesn't bother me one bit. I already know what the colors are (and know the image will be 'correct'--whatever that is)--and I use a VF for composition and focusing. I'll have to see about the 'tunnel' vision, but mostly people who have used the G1 EVF have reasonably good things to say about the GF1 EVF--and those that have never used it don't.

    I came from a 5D--and have used 1.6x bodies for years before the last 4 with the 5D. I didn't expect to 'like' an EVF but when I first tried it thought it was 'usable' and I'd compromise for the size/weight of the G1. Since then--I've learned to actually love the EVF. I miss it when I shoot with the 5D LOL. Who woulda' thunk?!? So--I'm much more likely to be open minded about the GF1's EVF because of my first dealings with the G1's. I DO NOT expect the same quality, but I am betting I can MF with it.

    And--of course Ranger 9 is right---if you have a blog you HAVE to be smart and knowledgeable--and RIGHT. And--if you post a lot and have lots of cameras (or have had over the years, though you never keep one long), you must be the best person to opine about the GF1---of course (a reference to another forum--bad, I know, but I'm just tired--TIRED, I say, of reading things that seem more written to get attention than be useful

    Ah, rereading that last paragraph, I realize that's totally out of character for me on a forum--well, sometimes it just slips out

  31. #81
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    I was just reading over on DPR that one can't macro focus with the EVF. What crap! Attached is an image taken from LR, hand held, manual focused, taken inches from the watch using the EVF in low light.
    Last edited by barjohn; 26th June 2010 at 22:27.
    V/r John

  32. #82
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Im sure that all of you are telling the truth ,depends on your point of view and experience....John,I believe what you say but just because something is possible it doesnt mean its good.The watch doesnt look that sharp to be honest but maybe thats the lens.

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Look at the shutter speed and being hand held.
    V/r John

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    I posted in that thread. I've used the G1's EVF for macro--and its much easier to shoot than with a FF VF for me. I think there are some that want these little cams to be 'the' camera for everything. I said that its horses for courses--if you shoot primarily macros, you would likely be better off with the G1/GH1 than the GF1 or Pen. That's w/o me having the EVF of course LOL--but I do know that G1's EVF is terrific for macro shooting.

    John feels that the GF1's EVF is capable of MF shooting--as have others said the same--so that's all I want or expect. To expect more is setting yourself up for disappointment IMO--I really like the GF1 but for some shooting I will just choose to use the G1. I think a lot of these nutsy threads elsewhere are because people haven't even tried to use the camera to its capabilities and/or they are trying to use the camera for purposes that would be better served by a different camera.

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Well said Diane and you get the GetDPI smart post of the week. It is what it is and it's a fun camera that can produce a very nice file but like anything else it will have limitations.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  36. #86
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    I just received my EVF and here are my first impressions. The image is much better than I expected based on the specs. The resolution is good enough that you (I) must strain to see the pixels. I have looked at other EVFs like on the Canon Super Zooms and there the pixels are clearly evident, here they are not. The color and brightness appear to be very good and the information display matches the rear LCD. The diopter adjustment worked well. MF appears to be fairly easy both at first level magnification and second level. The tilt feature is super! All in all I am more pleased than I expected to be. While I no longer have my G1 to compare the two side by side, it appears to be very close and it is quick. The black out is identical to the rear LCD, which is a blink with auto review off. It isn't as high a resolution as the back LCD but from a practical standpoint it is close. The only time I see any LCD delay and I see the same delay on both the viewfinder and the rear LCD is in continuous shoot mode shooting RAW + JPG L, until the buffer is empty the LCD staggers (jumps from image to image) well behind where it is optically pointed. In single shot mode it is ready to go faster than I am.

    Bottom line I think most of you will really like it and a few of you won't. I like it an it appears that it will do what I need it to do.
    Thanks for your honest impressions John, much appreciated... I'm getting used to reading wildly conflicting user impressions these days, I'm not looking to make a purchase, so don't really get too wound up about it.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Here are a series of test shots. The first 3 are using the 20mm f1.7. One focused with EVF, one focused with LCD and one focused with AF. Then one of the Leica 40/f2 focused with the EVF and finally one of the Nikon 50/f1.8 focused with the EVF. All shot tripod mounted but at different distances due to the minimum focus distance for these various lenses. I forgot to mention that all of these are 100% crop images
    Last edited by barjohn; 26th June 2010 at 22:27.
    V/r John

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    So, I've read those two linked "reviews" of the EVF. Nothing is mentioned of which lens was use to test whether the EVF will be useful for manual focus. Or if legacy lenses were used. Has anyone tested say a c-mount or a M mount lens using the EVF?

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    See above. I used both an M mount and a Nikon mount lens.
    V/r John

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Thanx John--you answered my question as I was writing! And your opinion of using the EVF shooting MF lenses? The images look softer than the 20/1.7. Your thoughts?

  41. #91
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Yes, that 20mm f1.7 is nice and sharp

    Cheers John

    Brian

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    That 20/1.7 lens is very sharp. I shot all of these wide open and the Leica 40/f2 is generally not as sharp as some of the other Leica lenses like the 28/f2.8 ASPH.
    V/r John

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    QUOTE=barjohn;143342]See above. I used both an M mount and a Nikon mount lens.[/QUOTE]



    John, you know we are going to hold your feet to the fire on this one. Dad blame it, if I can't manual focus with it--well, I'm gonna' come getcha'

  44. #94
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    That's interesting, but all these are tests on static subjects (at close distances), not hard to do with either viewfinder. How does that viewfinder work on distant and/or moving subjects, that's where most will likely be using the finder and expecting it to out-perform the rear screen?

    Cheers

    Ray

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Ray,
    Candidly, I am not fast to focus with either the EVF or LCD in MF mode, nor was I fast enough for moving subjects with the M8. Using it the way I do any of the VFs or LCD it appears to do a decent job. Just for giggles, (not taken at the same time or same shooting angle) here are three shots of my book case with 100% crops, 1st with Leica M8 and I think the 28 f2.8 ASPH, second with the Nikon D90 AF and the third with the GF1 MF using EVF.
    Last edited by barjohn; 26th June 2010 at 22:27.
    V/r John

  46. #96
    OzRay
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    It'll be interesting to see how that eye-point viewfinder performs outdoors in environments where many say they can't use the current viewfinder. That's where I'd guess most are pinning their hopes that it'll work.

    Cheers

    Ray

  47. #97
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    That 20/1.7 is sharp, but so is that 28/2.8 ASPH

    John, do you have a sharp 50 cron or lux asph? I'd be curious to see something from either wide open with the EVF, and your opinions on how easy it is to see the image in focus at such a shallow DOF.

    I appreciate you doing all these tests. Helps us to make our decision

  48. #98
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Unfortunately I sold my 50 cron and my 90 cron when I sold my M8. The Nikor 50/1.8 is as close as I can get. I'll go outside and shoot some images with it and try and post them later.
    V/r John

  49. #99
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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Here are some shots taken out doors with the Nikor 50mm f1.8D using the EVF. Where I have two very similar shots the first was taken without screen magnification while doing the MF and the second was taken using the magnified image for focus.
    Last edited by barjohn; 26th June 2010 at 22:27.
    V/r John

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    Re: GF-1 viewfinder

    Thanx again John. Looks like another accessory to buy

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