GF1 compared to E-P1

[nei1]

Brian,are you a salesman for olympus or just an enthusiast.

 

[Brian Mosley]

Neil, just an enthusiast...

Cheers

Brian

 

[barjohn]

Brian,
I guess we can disagree but having both cameras in hand and comparing the LCDs I needed to adjust both the contrast and use the power bright to match up to the OLY LCD in normal use.

I have the no lens set to yes so I can't figure out what is going on. I may call Panasonic later today. I notice in the user manual it states that their adapter is required to use Leica lenses. On the G1 I had the adaptors I have worked fine.

 

[Diane B]

I have run into something I need help on, maybe it's a defective GF1. Today I tried using manual lenses, first a Leica with Novaflex adapter and then a Nikon with DMW-MA1 and Fotodiox adapters and the camera will not let me select MF with either so I can't get the enlarged image for manual focus. The menu is set to allow AF + MF and the MF Assist is on. It works when the Pana lens is on but not with any legacy lens. What may I be doing wrong?

Did you try 'shoot w/o lens' in menu and you are clicking on left arrow of 4 way and then ok?? I've tried mine with my MF lenses and its fine. You don't need to choose MF--just the 2 button select and then you just rotate your focus ring.

Ah, you do---hmmm. I now get you are only adjusting LCD. Thanks for clarification.

Diane

 

[Cindy Flood]

Cindy and Dianne, I am only talking about the rear LCD setting, not the in camera JPG processing. This was to make the LCD screen look better with more saturated colors. It doesn't effect the histogram.

I have run into something I need help on, maybe it's a defective GF1. Today I tried using manual lenses, first a Leica with Novaflex adapter and then a Nikon with DMW-MA1 and Fotodiox adapters and the camera will not let me select MF with either so I can't get the enlarged image for manual focus. The menu is set to allow AF + MF and the MF Assist is on. It works when the Pana lens is on but not with any legacy lens. What may I be doing wrong?

John, If you put a manual lens on the G1, the screen prompts you to switch to manual. I think the GF1 is just switching to manual since it is a button press, not a dial turn.
This is what I found:
When I put on my Oly 50 f/2 with my Lumix 4/3 to M4/3 adapter. I get the choice screen when I push the AF/MF button, It is on MF and will not let me change it. If I have MF assist set to ON in the menu, I get auto MF assist when I turn the focus ring. If I have MF assist set to OFF, I can use the 2 button press as on the G1 to get the assist. This all seems to be working as intended.

When I put on an M adapter/lens or Pen-F adapter/lens and press the AF/MF buttons, I get nothing. The camera has put it into MF automatically. If I set the menu to MF assist ON, it does not work with either of these adapters. I can get the two button press for MF assist whether the MF assist is set to ON or OFF. I never use MF assist set to ON. I like to control where the focus point is so this behavior has never been noticed and does not bother me. Panasonic may not consider this a bug, since their adapter works as it should.
John, I don't think this is a problem with your body. Do you have the Lumix adapter to test?

 

[Brian Mosley]

Hi John, I'm in no position to disagree with anyone! I don't have a GF1 to compare side by side with the E-P1... I'm just trying to see whether a consensus of opinion can be reached.

See if you can select the MF zoom assist with no lens fitted at all? I can't imagine why it wouldn't work?

Also, Cindy, make sure you don't accidentally touch the lens release button with your left hand fingers... this could cause the message you mentioned.

Cheers

Brian

 

[Cindy Flood]

...

Also, Cindy, make sure you don't accidentally touch the lens release button with your left hand fingers... this could cause the message you mentioned.

Cheers

Brian

Brian, I just tried to make it happen by pressing the release button and I couldn't. I'm not too worried. It may have just been the Pen-F adapter causing the problem. I just got a second Pen-F adapter and haven't seen the problem yet with it. I just mentioned it in case others were seeing that behavior. (Is Panasonic trying to force us to use their adapter by crippling the "Focus assist ON" when we use other adapters--ala the battery situation?...just wondering.)

 

[barjohn]

OK. Thanks to you all problem solved. The AF-MF button does nothing when a manual lens is on the camera. Pushing the left arrow button creates the focus assist square then pressing the menu button magnifies the image. I kept thinking I had to put it in manual mode but the button only works for lenses that have AF. Not the most intuitive setup. It seems it should automatically go into MF assist mode when a manual lens is on the camera and only require 1 button to magnify or un-magnify or better yet, 1st press magnify 5x, second press magnify 10x, third press no magnification. Nice and quick that way.

I will be posting some pictures in a bit. These were taken with the 20mm f1.7, the Lieca/Minolta 40mm f2 and the Oly 17mm f2.8. The lighting conditions were the same, daylight from windows to the right of the scene. Cameras were set AWB, maximum points exposure for each (not spot). The focus point was set via cross hairs on the LCD placed on the same location in the image and the cameras were tripod mounted with the tripod kept in the same location.

 

[barjohn]

The following picture series was my attempt to compare the two cameras under somewhat controlled conditions using the three lenses previously described. I had the manual focusing issue I described in earlier posts with the GF1 so when using the Leica 40mm f2 lens the focus is not quite as good on the GF1. This is not the camera's fault by my own.

Some of my observations:
You will notice that there are differences in shutter speed selected by the camera for a given aperture with the GF1 usually selecting the faster shutter speed. The RAW files on the GF1 appear slightly overexposed compared to the E-P1 raw taken under the same lighting and on the GF1 it is different for the RAW than the JPG. Another interesting difference is that bokeh with the same lens, same f-stop is different between the two cameras. I can't explain this.

The last series of shots was taken in a bathroom off of a dark hall way with just a low wattage lamp on in the bathroom to simulate the lighting in a dimly lit bar. Those were shot hand held so that you can see the effect of the in body IS. I tried my best at ISO 400 and ISO 200 to hold the camera perfectly still for all of the shots. The in body IS really adds to the camera's low light capability. More than a couple of stops in my opinion. You will also see here the difference in AWB between the cameras that is not evident in daylight where both cameras performed about the same.

The good news is that they are both excellent cameras. The bad news is that this review may make it harder for you to pick between them.

The lens used is shown for all but the 40MM which doesn't show any lens in the EXIF data. If the file name starts with A it is the Olympus with .orf for its raw files. RW2 are the raw files for the GF1.

 

[barjohn]

Here are the remainder of the files from the same series.

 

[barjohn]

More.

 

[barjohn]

Finally, the low light series. All images are only loaded into LR with no changes to any settings. The default setting are what is being used.

 

[barjohn]

I welcome comments and any postulated explanations for what the images reveal. The in camera JPG setting on the GF1 is set to film mode =vibrant for all the JPG images from the GF1 and Natural for the E-P1.

 

[nostatic]

My brain hurts..

Focus is a little off on some of the low iso images. Looks like the Oly are more saturated but beyond that the biggest difference is the SR at slow shutters imho.

Thanks for all the images. This actually makes me miss my E-P1 a bit, and has pretty much turned me against the GF-1. The lack of SR in the 20/1.7 is a deal breaker for me. I'm already dealing with no SR with primes on the Canon. At this point I'd rather go either X1 or Pentax K7 with a small ltd prime.

I do like the thought of the Leica 45mm macro with IS on the Panny, but the lack of IS on the 20 bugs me.

 

[OzRay]

An interesting comparison. I wonder what the results would be like if you were to use a fully manual lens set to the same aperture, focus etc for all the tests? I'm wondering whether you're getting the real settings in the EXIF or 'nearest', as the camera makes differing adjustments to the electronic lens. I think the electronics will have a significant bearing on the outcomes, even when using the same AF lens on the two cameras. Looks like the pillow fight just got better.

Cheers

Ray

 

[Streetshooter]

John,
Thank you very much for all your work and efforts....
Don

 

[Terry]

My brain hurts..

Focus is a little off on some of the low iso images. Looks like the Oly are more saturated but beyond that the biggest difference is the SR at slow shutters imho.

Thanks for all the images. This actually makes me miss my E-P1 a bit, and has pretty much turned me against the GF-1. The lack of SR in the 20/1.7 is a deal breaker for me. I'm already dealing with no SR with primes on the Canon. At this point I'd rather go either X1 or Pentax K7 with a small ltd prime.

I do like the thought of the Leica 45mm macro with IS on the Panny, but the lack of IS on the 20 bugs me.

What is SR?

 

[nostatic]

Shake reduction - aka image stabilization. Pentax, Sony, and Oly use in-body SR so all lenses are stabilized. Canon, Nikon and Panny use lens IS. The companies will argue about which is preferable, but in-body gives some real advantages in that any lens is stabilized.

 

[barjohn]

Well it was a lot of work that is for sure. On the focus being off, with the manual lens, it is as I explained but with the AF lenses, the cameras were set to place the focus spot on the exact same point, tripod mounted so if the focus is off it is the AF system in the camera. I take the blame on the manual lens. None of this explains why the Panny shows a difference in exposure between its JPGs and its RAW image. The cameras were both set to record JPG(Large SF) and RAW. The OLY images whether RAW or JPG were of equal brightness (exposure).

In body IS is a huge advantage. I think I have pretty steady hands but the cameras are light and small so the slightest shake is transmitted to the image. With the M8 I could usually shoot down to 1/8th and still get a sharp image. On these cameras without IS I can't do it.

I didn't get into video recording but I can tell you the video I have shot with the E-P1 is amazing and having stereo mics really helps. I never noticed lens noise from the E-P1. I haven't tried with the GF1 so I can't give a fair comparison.

I also didn't get into the menu systems. However, the Panasonic menu is much more straight forward than the Olympus one. Now that I am familiar with both, I have to say that both companies could and should do a better job. Neither menu is as simple, intuitive and straight forward as it should be. A lot of the crap they put into their software could be left out completely and the cameras would be a big improvement. For example, all of the in camera editing could be eliminated. Do they think anyone really wants to work on a 3" screen to try and edit an image? There are so many PP options that it makes no sense on a camera aimed at hobbyists and semi-professionals. I'm not sure it even belongs in consumer cameras. I know my wife would never use that stuff. Working to tweak an image in iPhoto is as close to editing as she wants to get.

I keep hoping that someone will get it right. So far, no one has. I thought maybe Leica would once they woke up but alas they missed the boat too. What am I looking for:

1. Small body GF1 or E-P1 size
2. In body stabilization (IS) or (SR)
3. Electronically couples optical view finder or a very high quality EVF in the body, diopter correction and magnification built in
4. Built in Flash for P&S work
5. Interchangeable lenses
5. Mechanical interface for shutter speed, ISO, Exposure comp, WB, possibly aperture
6. Focus assist light for low light AF
7. Weather sealed would be a plus
8. At least 12MP and as large a sensor as possible
9. High ISO capability to 6400 or 12,800
10. Fast everything operation

Both the E-P1 and the GF1 come close but each misses the boat in one or more areas.

My subjective opinion is that the GF1 wins by a very small margin but for some it could be just the opposite. Image quality is too close to call between these cameras.

 

[RichA]

The first thing I noticed on opening the box is that the GF1 seems smaller than the E-P1. Total volume is probably pretty close but the difference in width really makes it seem smaller.

Thanks for the tests, it's clear 3200 ISO is a complete waste of time with these 4/3rds sensors, no surprise. People intent on using such speed are much better off going with a Nikon D90. However, 800-1600 is acceptable.