GF1 now on backorder at Panasonic

[Vivek]

My first disappointment is that the only charged battery I had handy was an aftermarket one for my G1 and thanks to Panasonic's firmware safeguards, the camera refused to turn on with it...

Thanks for that information. That rules it out for me.

As long as Pana and any others try this, I will not be buying their cams unless their batteries are not as ridiculously priced as Panasonic's.

Euro 89.50 is the list price here, for that stinking battery.

Aftermarket battery (that works better and lasts longer on a G1), in comparison, is ~4 Euros/shipped.

 

[jerryk]

Thanks for that information. That rules it out for me.

As long as Pana and any others try this, I will not be buying their cams unless their batteries are not as ridiculously priced as Panasonic's.

Euro 89.50 is the list price here, for that stinking battery.

Aftermarket battery (that works better and lasts longer on a G1), in comparison, is ~4 Euros/shipped.

Canon is doing that with it's newer DSLRs. The battery for a 5DMK2 was about $120 USD but has drop into the $60-70 range. The batteries have a chip with serial number and provided information about how many times they have been charged and the remaining lifespan which is nice. But they sure are expensive.

 

[barjohn]

If you think about it (other than price) you can understand a manufacturers reluctance to allow the use of third party batteries given the poor quality of some of the made in China batteries and their propensity to occasionally explode or catch on fire. They don't want claims made against them for either warranty work or liability. Frankly, I don't think they sell enough batteries for that to be the motivating factor.

 

[Vivek]

If you think about it (other than price) you can understand a manufacturers reluctance to allow the use of third party batteries given the poor quality of some of the made in China batteries and their propensity to occasionally explode or catch on fire. They don't want claims made against them for either warranty work or liability. Frankly, I don't think they sell enough batteries for that to be the motivating factor.

Can you back that claim with any real proof?

Can the manufacturers guarantee that their batteries will not lead to such "explosions" or "fire"?

I would like to know where such tales are manufactured.

(Oh, canon can do whatever they want. )

 

[Audii-Dudii]

What I find interesting about this whole battery issue is how not one of the sellers of aftermarket batteries on eBay make any mention whatsoever of the fact that their battery won't work in the cameras as claimed. Surely they are aware of this by now? The fact they're pretending otherwise certainly does cast some doubt as to their integrity...

 

[barjohn]

I don't have the time or inclination to search the web for stories on exploding Li batteries nor damaged electronics due to faulty batteries but there have been many. If you use the manufacturers battery and it damages your camera you have a valid warranty claim so yes they can and do guarantee their batteries and they face product liability claims should a person be injured as a result. Such tales are manufactured in court rooms across the country. Do a Google search and you will undoubtedly find such cases.

 

[Vivek]

That is because Panasonic introduced that in one of their firmware updates after the introduction of G1 and GH-1. Prior to that it wasn't a problem.

If someone is selling batteries for the GF-1 and not mentioning it then the buyer gets hit not Panasonic (if they do not say it explicitly to the buyer of the GF-1) and not the seller.

FWIW, none of the 3rd party batteries I use on my G1s malfunctioned even once. For that matter the 3rds party batteries I use on various other digital cams have not malfunctioned either.

What I find interesting about this whole battery issue is how not one of the sellers of aftermarket batteries on eBay make any mention whatsoever of the fact that their battery won't work in the cameras as claimed. Surely they are aware of this by now? The fact they're pretending otherwise certainly does cast some doubt as to their integrity...

 

[barjohn]

Vivek,

It only takes one to ruin your day.

 

[Vivek]

I don't have the time or inclination to search the web for stories on exploding Li batteries nor damaged electronics due to faulty batteries but there have been many.

We are discussing digital cameras and in particular the one made for m4/3rds by Panasonic.

If Panasonic did find that any 3rd party battery damaged their camera(s) and/ or the user and as a result they did this, they should publish this as a safety measure.

Not a single story that I can find that substantiate your claims and you are manufacturing stories related to Panasonic cameras and 3rd party batteries.

 

[barjohn]

I disagree. We are talking about Lithium Ion batteries and why manufacturers may want some control over the batteries used in their devices.

Here are some links as to why:
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/dell-battery-fire.htm
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2006/PhiladelphiaPA/iic_opening_text.htm
http://video.google.com/videosearch...&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lithium-ion-battery2.htm
http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2006/08/7523.ars


Then here are links to law suits over Lithium Ion batteries against Apple, Sony, Matsu****al Electric...

http://www.kirotv.com/money/21105313/detail.html
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2008/04/apple-sony-agree-to-pay-out-over-battery-fire-lawsuit.ars
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Appl...llion-Yen-in-Battery-Fire-Lawsuit-83438.shtml
http://www.law360.com/company_articles/2605/8?start_page=1
http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/4109
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/Apple_Sony_Settle_Battery_Fire_Lawsuit_in_Japan/

Is this enough for you?

 

[Vivek]

Not a single link to Panasonic cameras!

If this battery issue related to m4/3rds cameras are true, I do not see any warning from Panasonic. That alone ought to constitute some liability.

What makes this absurd is we are discussing about a camera that would take dozens of adapters and would use many many lenses from various systems.

Can you dig up reports of adapters damaging devices. Going by your analogy, you need not restrict adapters to cameras and lenses. It can be a drain pipe or something...

I disagree. We are talking about Lithium Ion batteries and why manufacturers may want some control over the batteries used in their devices.

Here are some links as to why:
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/dell-battery-fire.htm
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2006/PhiladelphiaPA/iic_opening_text.htm
http://video.google.com/videosearch...&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lithium-ion-battery2.htm
http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2006/08/7523.ars


Then here are links to law suits over Lithium Ion batteries against Apple, Sony, Matsu****al Electric...

http://www.kirotv.com/money/21105313/detail.html
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2008/04/apple-sony-agree-to-pay-out-over-battery-fire-lawsuit.ars
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Appl...llion-Yen-in-Battery-Fire-Lawsuit-83438.shtml
http://www.law360.com/company_articles/2605/8?start_page=1
http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/4109
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/Apple_Sony_Settle_Battery_Fire_Lawsuit_in_Japan/

Is this enough for you?

 

[barjohn]

The issue relates to poorly made (let's call it shoddy manufacturing) batteries. It relates to cameras because cameras use them. A manufacturer can control the quality they get in two ways. 1) the manufacturer they select to make their batteries and 2) the specifications they require their batteries to be manufactured to. Batteries that internally short, have high current surges or any of a number of potential problems that are poorly made are risks they do not wish to take. You are of course free to use whatever you like as a battery in another context. I remember when Leica came out with a warning on the use of third party batteries and the fact that it voided their warranty. I think I recall their later firmware requires a Leica battery with a chip also. Lithium Ion batteries are known to be dangerous and need to be made to higher standards.

In any case it only takes one law suit to make a manufacturer battery shy.

 

[Vivek]

The issue is false information and greed (Panasonic).

What makes their battery worth Euro 89.50?

What makes you think that all 3rd party batteries do not have a electronic chip to regulate the current/voltage?

Say Pentax and other cams which use AA batteries- where is the chip? NiMH batteries and Li ion batteries are used in flashes. Should they not explode?

If Panasonic would put a control chip in the camera to regulate the current instead trying to make loads of money off their own batteries, this problem would not arise.


What about the E-P1? Is it waiting to explode when used with a non Olympus battery?

Re: Leica- IIRC, battery was the least of their problems.

 

[barjohn]

Vivek, I'm not saying their batteries are worth Euro 89.50. Are you suggesting that all battery manufacturers build to the same quality standards and specifications? I hope you don't believe that. The Chinese government is known for its lax quality standards see the recalled cough syrup and many other products many of which were toxic. The problem when you buy from a small vendor on eBay selling a no name third party battery is you don't know what you are getting. Maybe you will be lucky and the seller is buying from a legitimate battery manufacturer possibly the same one that supplies Panasonic with their batteries but maybe not. So who do you go to if the battery destroys the electronics in your camera or catches fire or injures you? If it's a Panasonic battery I know who you go to. If it is some little ebay seller I think its called being sh*t out of luck.

 

[Terry]

This topic has been beaten to death!

 

[Jonathon Delacour]

This topic has been beaten to death!

Terry, wait! Don't close the thread! I have valuable information to contribute!

The price Vivek quotes, EURO89.50, is about USD132.20 (at current exchange rates).

In Australia, the DMW-BLB13 Panasonic battery for the G1 costs AUD189.00 (about USD170.90). So the same battery is nearly 30% more expensive in Australia than it is in Europe. :wtf:

The solution? Buy the Panasonic batteries from the US, where B&H (for example) lists them at USD54.95. I just ordered three from Robert (monza) for a unit price slightly lower than the B&H price (though that might have been because either he is or I am an all-around nice guy or because I'd ordered a 20/1.7 at the same time).

 

[Vivek]

Jonathon, Wow! (Thanks for the tip, btw )

So, we are blessed to get it at 30% bargain! :ROTFL:

John, If you want to bat for monopolies, they could get hit with larger fines, eventually.

The mighty MS took a big hit here with their browser. Unlike the US, the lobbies are a bit more complex (not saying they don't exist) and the chances of the monopoly practices getting punished in the EU are greater than in the US.
There are lot more MEPs than the handful of senators that can be influenced, for starters.

Cough syrups and tooth pastes may harm a few. That is nothing compared to the magic white powder demonstrated as being the truth on the UN floors. :ROTFL:

 

[jerryk]

Getting back to order status.

Today's call to Panasonic yielded the comment that they should have some kits next month (Nov) or the month after. I hope the person was just being pessimistic, but that is what she stated.

So until then I will have to enjoy the GF1 vicariously through everyone's post and samples.

 

[Terry]

Getting back to order status.

Today's call to Panasonic yielded the comment that they should have some kits next month (Nov) or the month after. I hope the person was just being pessimistic, but that is what she stated.

So until then I will have to enjoy the GF1 vicariously through everyone's post and samples.

That is just so strange. Sorry, if I gave false hope.

 

[m3photo]

Re: The Solution

The solution? Buy the Panasonic batteries from the US, where B&H (for example) lists them at USD54.95.

Darn, that's done it. The next Panasonic software update will have country codes on it like the DVD zone system so you'll have to get your batteries from Oz again