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Thread: My first digital camera

  1. #1
    frenchspur
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    Question My first digital camera

    Hi all,
    Last week I bought my first digital camera,a G1.On the same shopping trip I bought 20 rolls of film for my Leica R8s and Contax G2s,so I'm not a novice photographer.So this world is new to me.My 3 questions are is it worth shooting in Raw? is 4-3 better than 3-2? Finally,I have 3 Leica lenses-50/2,90/2.8 and 35-70:f4,is it a good idea to but an adaptor for the G1?
    Ta
    DM

  2. #2
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Hello and welcome to the forum

    Yes, I think it is certainly worth shooting the G1 in raw - which raw converter do you use at the moment?

    Personally, I'd buy the 20mm f1.7 before a converter for your leica lenses... it's only recently become available, but offers fantastic performance as a native m4/3rds lens.

    There should be advice coming soon from forum members who use Leica lenses with their G1.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  3. #3
    frenchspur
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Cheers Brian.
    Well I'm only using the software that came with the camera.Yes,I thought of that 20mm lens.I believe it has a 46mm filter thread,of which I have plenty.
    I have started using a Nikon polarising filter,is this worthwhile with digital?
    I must say I'm impressed with the G1!
    Ta
    DM

  4. #4
    Super Duper
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Hi and welcome.
    I've used M lenses on my G1 but don't own any R lenses. Not sure how heavy they will feel in relation to the body. I know on the heaviest of the Olympus 4/3 lenses people are a little bit wary of the weight of the lens putting stress on the lens mount. I'm not sure of the size/weight of the lenses you list.

    Like Brian said, I agree that you are better off shooting RAW but before giving advice again like Brian asks, what are you using now and what is the digital part of your workflow with your film scans?

  5. #5
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    hi there and welcome to what is most likely the friendliest forum around.

    Don't have a G1 myself - but an e-P1 - but your questions really apply to any 4/3 or micro 4/3

    Its worth shooting in RAW if you want to get the maximum out your files - especially for printing, otherwise if your photos are for social purposes or personal records then JPEG is going to be OK. Well exposed images in good light onscreen or printed snapshot size there is probably no noticeable difference between RAW and JPEG. You can set your camera to shoot both - maybe try that first and then go one way or another.

    4:3 or 3:2 - your choice - you have been shooting 3:2 with the Leica and the G1

    as for the leica lenses - yes it is an option - but remember on the G1 the lenses field of view will half - so your 50/2 will look though the viewfinder like a 100mm lens - plus you will be using only the centre sweetspot of the lens - which may change some of the character you may be used to with the lens on 35mm full frame. You will also have to use stop down metering.. all is doable and can be fun - but don't expect the same results you would get on the R8

    hope this helps

    cheers

    Kevin

  6. #6
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Kevin,
    I don't get the bit about stop down metering. Are you saying focus wide open and then stop down? The G1 gains up a bit as you stop down so I haven't had problems getting focus at the actual desired aperture (OK f11 and f16 aren't areas where I've tried this).

  7. #7
    frenchspur
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Well well this is a friendly forum!So much good advice to work on.So 3-2 is like film,that's useful.Maybe I should keep the two medias apart for a time.I like the idea of a 20/1.7 I have a 21mm Contax G2 lens that I'm fond of, so that may be the way to go?
    My software is only the stuff that came with the G1.Another thing,do digitalist mainly keep their shots on hard drives to email or do they print and frame them?
    Ta,
    DM

  8. #8
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Terry

    was forgetting the G1 has the EVF - was really speaking more from my experience of using lenses on my 510.
    Also I do find it easier to 'see' I am in focus with the lens wide open as the narrow DOF helps pinpoint the point of focus

    cheers
    K

  9. #9
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    hi

    The Panasonic 20/1.7 will give you a field of view equivalent of a 40mm on a 35mm camera.

    to get the same field of view as your 21mm Contax on a G1 or any micro 4/3 camera you will need a 10.5mm lens..... and neither olympus or panasonic actually make a prime lens that size :-)

    K

  10. #10
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    Re: My first digital camera

    The 50/2 would be most useful. The size and handling is swell. Images are superb.

    The 90/2.8 handles OK.

    The 35-70, well, you would find out how that would be. The kitzooms are better.

    For the 50/2, I focus wide open and stop down. Works best this way.

    Get used to framing for 4:3. That makes use of most of the tiny sensor in G1.

  11. #11
    frenchspur
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Thanks you guys.I think I will buy an adaptor for my Leica Rs.It will be interesting.Is there any point of using filters?
    Ta,
    DM

  12. #12
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Back to software,

    I haven't used Silkypix which comes with the G1. People have a love hate relaionship with it.

    The next easiest solution for the G1 is Lightroom or Camera Raw/Photoshop combo.
    Aperture doesn't have full support and C1 doesn't support the camera - you can do some DNG conversions but just starting out my best suggestion is learning Lightroom (just an opinion others will probably have a different opinion). Lightroom is not simply a RAW developer but really works on the whole workflow from camera through printing or slideshow.

    You can download a 30 day trial from Adobe.

    In addition there is plenty of on-line training available. Personally for the money, I found the Lightroom training at kelbylearning.com very good. ($25/month for unlimited training - you could probably sign up for a month - get what you need and cancel). THere are also several books available - I like books for reference - I'm not great at learning from them.

  13. #13
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Quote Originally Posted by frenchspur View Post
    Thanks you guys.I think I will buy an adaptor for my Leica Rs.It will be interesting.Is there any point of using filters?
    Ta,
    DM
    The only filters I ever use are a polarizer and graduated neutral density.

    Welcome!

    Cheers,

  14. #14
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    Re: My first digital camera

    After using many RAW converters over the years, I have settled on Lightroom also--which does a lot more--database, printing, etc. There are some very good free tutes here also
    http://www.adobe.com/support/photoshoplightroom/

    There are some very good books--I tend to like Martin Evening's but most all the ones I've seen would be fine.

  15. #15
    ddk
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    Re: My first digital camera

    You got most of your answers by others so I'll limit my comments to the raw processor. In my experience Silky Pix (what came with your camera) does a better job with color and tone of Panasonic files than the Adobe products, even if it has a clunkier interface. But this is all subjective and in time you should run your own tests, at the very least its worth trying SilkyPix for a while before deciding for or against it.

  16. #16
    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Another happy user of Silkypix here !

    Have fun with your new camera,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

  17. #17
    Member kwalsh's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Yes RAW is worth it. You can of course shoot JPG+RAW for awhile and see what you think yourself.

    4:3 is the native format for the G1, I'd shoot in that mode and then crop later to what you want. A nice thing with 4x3 is that it sits in between 4x5, 5x7 and 2x3 so it gives you a lot of options to the final print. Of course if you like 2x3 and are most comfortable with that then there is nothing wrong with just shooting in that mode.

    People here seem to enjoy mounting other lenses to the G1. I'm not familiar with your lenses but it looks like you are getting plenty of advice from others already.

    Yes, a polarizer is still very useful in digital photography - one of the few filters that is still useful in digital. With the G1 either a linear or circular polarizer will work just fine.

    As far as RAW converters go if you have Photoshop CS4 already then definitely try out ACR which is included - very powerful RAW converter. I happen to use Lightroom, same RAW engine as ACR in a more pleasant work flow. I've also used Silkypix in the past, it is surprisingly good but the work flow is a bit poor. If you spend some time with Silkypix I recommend spending about $3 for this E-book:

    http://www.eos-images.com/silkypix-r...on-to-silkypix

    It is much better than the poorly translated help files that come with Silkypix and is worth the few bucks it costs. For ACR and Lightroom there are gobs of books to choose from.

    Enjoy your new camera!

    Ken

  18. #18
    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kwalsh View Post
    If you spend some time with Silkypix I recommend spending about $3 for this E-book:

    http://www.eos-images.com/silkypix-r...on-to-silkypix
    I just purchased the e-book, and can confirm that it contains a lot of very useful information.
    I also purchased a package of "tastes" for something like 15$, very useful as well, gives you the possibility to develop your shot in all kinds of ways, like different colour & B/W film imitations, sepia toning, ...

    Thanks for mentionning, Ken

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

  19. #19
    Super Moderator Cindy Flood's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    I have a G1 and I also own a 35 f/2 R lens. The R lenses are very heavy. I have mounted my 35R on my G1 and it is doable, but you must support the lens at all times. The mount of the G1 was not built for that weight. There are reports of the mount pulling out of the body. I think you would be better off with the 20 f/1.7.
    I assume that when you said Nikon polarizer, you were speaking of a circular polarizer.... any brand of circular polarizer will work fine.
    Congratulations on your first digital camera.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Y.B.Hudson III's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    yehh... I mounted a R 19mm v1 on a G1, it won't fit in my heLLo-KittY bag... and My sherpa refuses t' carry it... nice image files though.

    You bought the "RIGHT" camera, with an excellent EVF for Ultra fast glass...

    regards, Hudson

  21. #21
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Welcome aboard the forum! I think the big thing is we all try and have fun and help each other out.

    If Silkypix is working for you great. For me on my iMac 24 it is really slow which makes it a no go for me. In general my iMac is pretty quick though I only have 4GB RAM and I need to bring it up to 8GB. However, I took out the fast hard drive and stuck in a 500GB SSD and that drive is very very fast. Applications open instantly. But they are still outrageously expensive so I wouldn't suggest one now.
    V/r John

  22. #22
    frenchspur
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Thanks everybody.I think I must persevere with silkypix for a time.On my laptop it's also slow too.however in a couple of weeks I'm due to buy a new laptop with windoze 7,maybe it will work faster?You see I have been dragged kicking and screaming into digital photography and now I like it.
    Last week I went into London to buy a Leica M2 and came back with a G1!Digital is a whole lot faster:I wanted to join the really slow lane and now I'm in the fast.
    Ta
    DM

  23. #23
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Does anyone know whether Silkypix will apply distortion/CA correction to m4/3rds lenses in an E-P1 raw file?

    Cheers

    Brian

  24. #24
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Does anyone know whether Silkypix will apply distortion/CA correction to m4/3rds lenses in an E-P1 raw file?

    Cheers

    Brian
    Brian, Silkypix does not correct any CA (if it does, it is inadequate) from the 17/2.8 on a G1.

    Those who use Silkypix for RAW conversions: set the demosaicing sharpness (default is 80%) to 0 (zero). Otherwise the resulting files won't be "silky" but very brittle.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Oh, OK thanks Vivek... I'll stick with PhotoAcute to create a corrected DNG, and Lightzone to process then.

    Cheers

    Brian

  26. #26
    frenchspur
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Hi all.Forgive my digital ignorance but what are DNG and CA ?
    Ta
    DM

  27. #27
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    Re: My first digital camera

    DNG = Digital Negative - a file format.

    CA = Chromatic Aberration (many different ones of this aberration are generally clubbed together.

    Your turn.

    What are Ta and DM?

  28. #28
    frenchspur
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Now that's better,I know what you are talking about.
    Ta is an English phrase meaning thankyou and DM are my initials.
    Ta
    David

  29. #29
    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Hi and welcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    people are a little bit wary of the weight of the lens putting stress on the lens mount. I'm not sure of the size/weight of the lenses you list.
    The maximum weight according to an (unverified) pre-release documentation is 1000g. I think your R lenses are much less than that. Here some examples with R lenses I have used:

    35-70/2.8 Leica Vario Elmarit-R Asph

    21-35/3.5 Vario Elmar Asph.

    For very heavy lenses I use the Manfrotto 293 Telephoto Lens Support

    Cheers
    Peter
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

  30. #30
    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    If Silkypix is working for you great.
    I use Silkypix only occasionally with original lenses. Otherwise, and especially for third party lenses I prefer RAW Therapee. It is free. For further image manipulation, resizing, etc. I use gimp (also free). I had used Photoshop before.

    Cheers
    Peter
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

  31. #31
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    Re: My first digital camera

    I'm going to beat a counter point on the raw .... if you expose correctly, for all practical purposes when printing up to about 16X20 inches, ( never can remember which A size that is equal to ), when viewed from a normal distance, the difference is not worth the bother for me.

    I fully agree, to pull the maximum image quality from the camera, you need raw, also a tripod, good light, off camera flash, strobes, excellent lenses, etc .....

    For most of what I do, I down size to web any way, for the printed bits, I very rarely print over 8x10, and Raw/JPEG is equal there as long as you get the exposure right.

    I spend my day writing computer code, the less work I do in post, the better for me, it leaves more time to take photos.

    Please notice that I have always qualified with getting the exposure right, if you need to salvage a photo, RAW has much more headroom than JPEG.

    Dave

  32. #32
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    Terry

    was forgetting the G1 has the EVF - was really speaking more from my experience of using lenses on my 510.
    Also I do find it easier to 'see' I am in focus with the lens wide open as the narrow DOF helps pinpoint the point of focus

    cheers
    K
    I'm with Kevin on this one ... I have trouble seeing exact focus points with more telephoto lenses at f8 and it shows in the larger views on screen and in prints. Also trying to use the EVF at f8 in low-ish light (like in the forest) is tricky with all the jitter that the slowed refresh rate brings

    even overcast days can be hard ... from earlier this year (Canon FD 300 at f8)



    I wanted to get the DoF in the middle, but many of them didn't work out ... I had to pick the 'zone' with some more back n forward ... hand held isn't easy. Ahh ... the benefits of auto aperture.
    Last edited by pellicle; 12th October 2009 at 05:52.

  33. #33
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Quote Originally Posted by djonesii View Post
    I'm going to beat a counter point on the raw .... if you expose correctly,
    sometimes ... but other times nature conspires against you, and I've had much easier times with a single exposure, plug that into photomatix and get some quick results.

    For example when the JPG captured this:



    I got this out of the raw using photomatix and some quick mouse clicks




    see here.

    so what I do is set my G1 to record RAW, and use dcraw to make my TIFF files as 8 bit if I don't want to do anything more than follow camera defaults.

    It happens I get more consistent colour balance that way too

  34. #34
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kwalsh View Post
    Yes, a polarizer is still very useful in digital photography - one of the few filters that is still useful in digital. With the G1 either a linear or circular polarizer will work just fine.
    the other one being an 80A when working in tungsten ... brings that blue channel up better and keeps the noise at bay ;-)

  35. #35
    frenchspur
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Those R lenses look really heavy!I'm sure my 35-70f4,50/2 and 90/2.8 are not as large.BTW beautiful shots and such detail!
    I have started using RAW,'though not through the computer yet.
    I have been reading that there is an update of the firmware,is this necessary?
    Ta
    DM

  36. #36
    nei1
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post








    Just out of interest which is nearer the actual scene?

  37. #37
    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Quote Originally Posted by frenchspur View Post
    Ta is an English phrase meaning thankyou and DM are my initials.
    In Spanish it means Te amo (I love you)
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

  38. #38
    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Quote Originally Posted by frenchspur View Post
    I have been reading that there is an update of the firmware,is this necessary?
    There is a detailed discussion on the DP Review forum
    Cheers
    Peter
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

  39. #39
    frenchspur
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    Re: My first digital camera

    I think I will give the update a swerve.The lower shot is,to my mind,more pleasing.Of course it's all subjective.
    Ta,
    DM

  40. #40
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: My first digital camera

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Just out of interest which is nearer the actual scene?
    well, I wasn't able to do it on site, so it required my memory. I think that the one which I created using photomatix is closer to how I saw it ... the eye is quite the adaptive creature ... compared to film or sensor

    but i did see more blue sky than that

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