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Thread: E-P2 out

  1. #51
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    But it has that annoying faux prism!
    well ... ok you got me there ... that was dinky



    ... but my wife loves the flash on it so go figga?


    I like my G1 today as much as I did a year ago when I got it.
    perhaps its just the I never once saw as much hype over the G1 as the EP

    to anyone, where are the comparisons or specs please which suggest that the EP attachment finder is of [equal | lesser | greater] quality than the GF-1?

  2. #52
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    Re: E-P2 out

    The G1 prism was no problem for me, but it was a common complaint on other forums. Now that the E-P2 EVF is out, maybe people will start looking back at the G1 and realizing just how good a design it is.

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    to anyone, where are the comparisons or specs please which suggest that the EP attachment finder is of [equal | lesser | greater] quality than the GF-1?
    Both the preview from DPReview and Imaging Resource agree that it is higher spec and works better. I have no doubt that it is very good.

  4. #54
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    ...and Imaging Resource agree
    ahh hah ... forgot about them ... thanks :-)

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    Re: E-P2 out

    I guess the faux prism hump never bothered me as much as others LOL. It serves a purpose it seems--the GF1 and EP2 have HUGE 'humps' for their EVFs (though removable). I will say that I do like the grip also for a lot of shooting.

    I generally have both with me (I realize not everyone can have 2 bodies)with 2 lenses mounted. I do like the GF1 on neck strap and I've been a totally 'not around my neck' person for years. Just with the 20--or even the 14-45 its 'neckable' and I won't carry the G1 around my neck. But then--if I could only have one--it would be the G1 (or the GH1) since its more versatile for me. For me, its a different shooting experience between the G1 and GF1.

  6. #56
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: E-P2 out

    Its interesting going back and reading reviews of the G1 (http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DMCG1/DMCG1A.HTM) and how critical they were of it in some respects. I think that if the EP had been released first the G1 would have had a better write up ... but being first it had to be so much better to be treated as equal

    Personally I'm still very happy with my G1 and would only be interested in the EP as my second camera ...

    since I am in that market I need to consider if it (as it seems that it comes with the optical finder) will serve better than the GF-1

  7. #57
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: E-P2 out

    On the subject of bias, for instance ...

    EP review:

    Despite the excellent image quality, fine form, and easy workflow, the Olympus E-P1's IS system and zoom lens tended to hiccup at inopportune moments, introducing blur into my images.
    Its good quality at high ISO makes the Olympus E-P1 a very good available-light camera, which includes liberal use indoors.
    But the Olympus E-P1 with the 17mm lens hits the right spots for this photographer: great still image performance, very usable high ISO images, good optical quality, a prime lens with more to come, easy portability, and a certain charm that makes you want to take pictures.
    but yet about the G1

    Because the sensor is smaller than modern APS-C-sized digital SLRs, you'd expect image quality to be slightly lower, but printed results really show surprising parity.
    though nothing was mentioned like this in the E-3 review

    Just bear in mind that Panasonic is doing more than a little post-processing to improve distortion and chromatic aberration numbers, something we also saw with the Panasonic LX3.
    If action is your thing, you'd do better with an SLR. But as a second camera or a small primary shooter that will let you shoot at odd angles and carry a smaller camera bag, the Panasonic Lumix G1 is impressive
    so it seems to me that the EP is always just discussed while the G1 gets compared to high speed DSLRs and small sensor compacts ...

    smells like Panasonic is getting a rub ... to me at least

  8. #58
    Member Bill Gordon's Avatar
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    Re: E-P2 out

    As a long time owner of Olympus digital cameras I am disappointed with a company that produces a beautiful small and light camera and in a very short time destroys its' value by bringing a successor out so quickly....and such an ugly looking creature it is. we must remember that the man that designed the E-P1 passed on......so this is the best that his successor can do?

    I won't blame Panasonic, altho their entry into this market has probably upset the plans of Oly and it would appear that the Panny is much more popular now so what does that say about the originator of the 4/3rds concept?

  9. #59
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    Re: E-P2 out

    It appears to me that neither company is reaching their full potential in the micro 4/3 market. Olympus has the retro styling, in-body IS, but the EVF, no matter how good it may be, looks like a complete design afterthought. The Olympus menu system is far too complicated compared to the Panasonic. On the other hand, Panasonic has continuing serious channel distribution problems. Why is it so difficult for them to build to the demand?

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    I like my G1 today as much as I did a year ago when I got it.
    I like mine better.
    Best regards,
    John.
    http://jburnett.ca

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    It appears to me that neither company is reaching their full potential in the micro 4/3 market. Olympus has the retro styling, in-body IS, but the EVF, no matter how good it may be, looks like a complete design afterthought. The Olympus menu system is far too complicated compared to the Panasonic. On the other hand, Panasonic has continuing serious channel distribution problems. Why is it so difficult for them to build to the demand?
    I think m4/3 has proved more popular than either company imagined, and the market demographic a little different from the one they envisioned.

    Also, I think Japanese users are probably less concerned than western users about the menu systems. We're coming from a German-camera mindset, in which things are simple but reliable...the Japanese market seems to value extra options over doing one thing well. That said, these cameras do seem to do most things very well.

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    Re: E-P2 out

    I think Pana and Oly with these cameras every six month or so with no major useful change are going to kill the m4/3rds system.

    Where is that pink body m4/3rds camera with dedicated (but detachable) matching colored EVF, mic, etc?

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I think Pana and Oly with these cameras every six month or so with no major useful change are going to kill the m4/3rds system.

    Where is that pink body m4/3rds camera with dedicated (but detachable) matching colored EVF, mic, etc?
    I don't feel that. The 2 body styles gave us different options. As I've said--I feel I have 2 different shooting experiences with the G1 and GF1 (or the EP-1 if I had bought it). Probably the EP-2 should have been the EP-1--and the GH1 should have been the G1, but it did give us options and it brought people into the m4/3rds fold that perhaps wouldn't have tried one. The G1 got a number of us to consider one because the price was quite good (though at the time I remember people moaning about how 'expensive' it was in relation to small DSLRs) and it was our second system along with our DSLRs. I didn't feel unhappy with the G1 because the GH1 came out--nor did I feel unhappy being able to add the GF1. I do think Panasonic was just a little better attuned to the fact that the EVF was wanted and didn't have to backtrack with a very similar model.

    Now--though I haven't abandoned my 5D kit, I rarely shoot with it and I carry 2 different m4/3rds bodies--still keeping me way below my Canon kit in size and weight.

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    Re: E-P2 out

    What we need is an EVF of this kind (matching colored skins would be a big hit):

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8343941.stm

    When I need decent DR and noise performance, I still have to reach out for bigger clunkier cameras. Not a problem since I have not ditched them yet.

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    What we need is an EVF of this kind (matching colored skins would be a big hit):

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8343941.stm

    ...snip....
    Why not just a pack of colored markers...especially, just for you, Vivek.

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    What we need is an EVF of this kind (matching colored skins would be a big hit):

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8343941.stm
    That's a Babelfish!
    Sláinte

    Robert.

  17. #67
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    Re: E-P2 out

    Perceptive observations by Thom Hogan on the EP-2 and Olympus:
    mfbernstein wrote:
    Are you suggesting that it [the EP-2] won't be well received, or...?
    I'm suggesting that Olympus missed the boat. They did one thing--fix an implied weakness against a competitor--but nothing that would really extend the excitement of a pocketable large sensor camera. Indeed, their lens announcements go the other way (more system zooms). I'll go back to what I wrote when the E-P1 was announced: I don't think Olympus has correctly identified the actual purchaser of an E-P1. They were expecting some young person looking for a blog filler (stills, movies, etc.). They got me ;~).
    In fact, this really goes back to the original 4/3 announcements: what Olympus promised and who they thought would be interested turned out to be not what they delivered and not who ended up buying those models, I think. There's a critical disconnect between customer and designer going on.
    Any thoughts on the lenses? They seem to be going directly up against Panasonic (100% duplication rate!).
    Well, so is the addition of an EVF. Guess what? Olympus is afraid of Panasonic. They think that the way to beat Panasonic is to make sure they have the same stuff. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. That's the way you ultimately give validation to and lose to the big boy.
    So sad when one compares the genius of Mr Maitani with the mediocrity of the current Olympus designers. Or perhaps I'm being unfair and it's the classic case of marketing dictating to engineering what gets built. In any case, the end result is the same: the growth of m4/3rds is being unnecessarily constrained because Panasonic doesn't have to face a strong competitor.

  18. #68
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    Re: E-P2 out

    On the other hand, having well-received cameras and not shipping them seems to be a continuing problem with Panasonic. The LX-3 was announced in July '08 and it STILL is difficult for dealers to obtain...one can't build market share this way...

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    Re: E-P2 out

    There's a critical disconnect between customer and designer going on.
    If those were Thom's words, I think he hit the nail on Olympus' marketing department.

    Utterly clueless and continue to be so.

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    Subscriber Member Jonathon Delacour's Avatar
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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    On the other hand, having well-received cameras and not shipping them seems to be a continuing problem with Panasonic. The LX-3 was announced in July '08 and it STILL is difficult for dealers to obtain...one can't build market share this way...
    I've long wondered if because of the weak American dollar Panasonic may be following the strategy that Nintendo adopted with the Wii -- shipping more of their production to markets outside the US.

    It's not difficult to buy the LX-3 or the G-series cameras in Australia, if one is willing to pay the local price. I guess the question is: are Panasonic cameras and lenses in short supply in Europe and Asia, as well as in the US?

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If those were Thom's words, I think he hit the nail on Olympus' marketing department.

    Utterly clueless and continue to be so.
    Those are Thom's words and he's being saying the same thing ever since Olympus shipped the E-P1: Panasonic's efforts are being directed by someone with a photographer-centric focus whereas Olympus is, as you correctly point out, utterly clueless.

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    Re: E-P2 out

    AFAIK, the 7-14 zoom from Pana is still hard to find.

    Everything else (lenses and such) also have a waiting period.

    No clue on the GF-1 view finder. Have not even seen it listed anywhere.

    Had it not been for monza (Robert), here, I would have no clue about its price (US $ or otherwise).

  23. #73
    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Rating the current micro 4/3rds offerings

    If ever there was a group of cameras harder to rate against each other, they are it. However, for my own use I would rate them this way, taking into account performance and price:
    1. G1 (by a wide margin)
    2. GF1
    3. GH1
    4. E-P2
    5. E-P1

    Why? I have no use for video, we don't know if Olympus has improved the AF which means for me it comes down to a choice between what could probably still have slow, hunting AF (the E-P1 and likely E-P2) and having an EVF with higher resolution. The GH1 probably has the best sensor of the group, but an extra $1000 for a 14-140mm video-optimized lens I don't need or want is just too much.

  24. #74
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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If those were Thom's words, I think he hit the nail on Olympus' marketing department.

    Utterly clueless and continue to be so.
    It's important to remember that the kind of people who discuss photography on internet fora, represent a very tiny fraction of the market. The EP-1 apparently sells like hotcakes, and I suspect that it has little to do with photographic qualities or ergonomics, but a lot to do with "coolness" factor.

    A few friends of mind, whose photographic abilities are mostly limited to pointing the camera in the general direction of the subject and then push the shutter release, have bought it and are very pleased... with the looks

    They will never notice that an EP-2 has been released unless they need a black version to match the evening dress or tuxedo (and what is that little plastic thingy that came with the camera?).

  25. #75
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    Re: E-P2 out

    Unfortunately for me, the pink version was missing.

    (I am yet to find a marker that would do a satisfactory pink, Cindy. )

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    I guess the faux prism hump never bothered me as much as others LOL. It serves a purpose it seems--the GF1 and EP2 have HUGE 'humps' for their EVFs (though removable). I will say that I do like the grip also for a lot of shooting.
    Yeah, it's not a 'faux prism' hump or a faux anything, it's actually an EVF/flash hump.

    I think they could have shrunk the protruding lip somewhat with a different flash design, that part seemed a bit ornamental (and also easier to arrange with the flash.) But there's not that much room to shrink with the EVF. I doubt the had the viewfinder stick out the back on purpose.

    Similarly, they could have made the grip smaller, but it doesn't protrude much more than even the 20mm pancake, so it's not like you'd really be reducing effective depth (with lens attached.)

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxmedia View Post
    Yeah, it's not a 'faux prism' hump or a faux anything, it's actually an EVF/flash hump.

    I think they could have shrunk the protruding lip somewhat with a different flash design, that part seemed a bit ornamental (and also easier to arrange with the flash.) But there's not that much room to shrink with the EVF. I doubt the had the viewfinder stick out the back on purpose.

    Similarly, they could have made the grip smaller, but it doesn't protrude much more than even the 20mm pancake, so it's not like you'd really be reducing effective depth (with lens attached.)
    I guess that if you want a small micro 4/3 with...
    . flash
    . high res evf
    . rotating LCD
    . sensible grip
    . easy controls and menu layout

    ...the the G1 is the best way anyone could do it - there is no competitor yet.

    I love it.
    I would love it better with on board IS, but that's why I have my E-P1

    Keith

  28. #78
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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I think Pana and Oly with these cameras every six month or so with no major useful change are going to kill the m4/3rds system.

    Where is that pink body m4/3rds camera with dedicated (but detachable) matching colored EVF, mic, etc?
    LOL, what I find even more frustrating is Panny's seeming inability to supply enough cameras to sell. Right now on Amazon the GF-1 kits are selling for 2x the MSRP.
    It may as well be vapor ware.
    But the G-1 and GH-1 are available...go figure.

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    LOL, what I find even more frustrating is Panny's seeming inability to supply enough cameras to sell. Right now on Amazon the GF-1 kits are selling for 2x the MSRP.
    It may as well be vapor ware.
    But the G-1 and GH-1 are available...go figure.
    There are GF1s around though--I know the seller on Ebay is outrageous--hope no one is duped into buying there. Samy's on the west coast has had them pretty regularly, Robert/Monza had them--may still have the 14-45 kit, and I've seen links to various smaller stores all over the US that has them in stock--some on the shelves. Its hard to track them down though unless someone gives a link. I understand that Panasonic.com has been shipping them regularly also even though they say they are out of stock.

    Diane

  30. #80
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    Re: E-P2 out

    Panasonic has a most unusual way of doing business. The 20mm lenses are going for $600 on Amazon. I don't know if anyone is actually buying them at that price...maybe when we get the next shipment I'll jack up the price and see what happens.


    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    There are GF1s around though--I know the seller on Ebay is outrageous--hope no one is duped into buying there. Samy's on the west coast has had them pretty regularly, Robert/Monza had them--may still have the 14-45 kit, and I've seen links to various smaller stores all over the US that has them in stock--some on the shelves. Its hard to track them down though unless someone gives a link. I understand that Panasonic.com has been shipping them regularly also even though they say they are out of stock.

    Diane

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    Re: E-P2 out

    I'm just surprised (maybe I shouldn't be) that Amazon doesn't do a bit of checking on their 'sellers'. Prior to the recent pricing by one particular seller (which I never heard of), you could buy the GF1 kit at a normal price. That's totally price gouging--I wonder where they get their stock. One assumes from Panasonic, so perhaps they should check on their resellers.

    Yep, Robert, maybe you should up your prices and see what happens LOL.

    Diane

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    LOL, what I find even more frustrating is Panny's seeming inability to supply enough cameras to sell. Right now on Amazon the GF-1 kits are selling for 2x the MSRP.
    It may as well be vapor ware.
    But the G-1 and GH-1 are available...go figure.
    Lili,
    Panasonic.com has certainly had stock. It says backordered but if they let you place the order you can bet that they have an idea that stock is coming. You will have to pay sales tax from Panasonic. Also, if you are going to order from them be sure to register with them. That ensures your order is directly with Panny and isn't routed to their fulfillment company.

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Aside from the sensor shift stabilisation (and I have yet to even see a comparison on how well it works with different sorts of shake) the Oly is like a Harley Davidson ... compared to jap bikes (CBR, ZX-R ...) which are 50% cheaper its big on look but won't go fast, won't corner, under braked and under powered.
    As for the sensor shift stabilisation in the E-P1, I can assure you that it works significantly better than the image stabilisation in the G1 with the 20mm f/1.7 BTW, the movie mode in the G1 doesn't do quite as well as the E-P1 either

    I can confirm that there is no significant difference between the in-body image stabilisation of the E-P1 and the in-lens version in the Panasonic 45-200 zoom. I have this lens and use it with the E-P1.

    The comparision with the Harley Davidson is interesting. I have always considered them to be large and bloated & heavier than they need to be. Sounds more like the G1. Maybe you are implying that people with the E-P1 are generally tough, large and hairy? Oh, when was the last time Harley Davidson won a motorcycle Grand Prix?

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    Re: E-P2 out

    A bit more seriously compared to my last post, I have seen 1 preliminary report on a pre-release model of the E-P2 indicate that the tracking focus works which is surprising as there is no other improvement to the AF. I wonder if Olympus will add tracking focus as a firmware download? Somehow I doubt is as the E-P1 pricing is a little steep.

    The external microphone feature is neat and a necessity to any half-serious movie mode. Years ago, I use to use a flash shoe mounted boom mike with my cine camera but as the microphone adapter takes up the flash shoe, I can see a few external brackets in use. One with a nice grip on the left would do nicely.

    It would have been neat if a flash sync socket was built into the EVF.

    I am not too sure of the black finish on the stainless steel. I had a similar finish on my Nikon S710 and that scratched easily.

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Panasonic has a most unusual way of doing business. The 20mm lenses are going for $600 on Amazon. I don't know if anyone is actually buying them at that price...maybe when we get the next shipment I'll jack up the price and see what happens.
    I think you will find that they are not US stock. Non-US pricing is significantly higher. For example, in Australia the recommended retail price is $799 Australian which works out at around $719 USD.

    http://panasonic.com.au/products/det...?objectID=5376

    Amazon will not ship US Panasonic camera gear to Australia and I gave up waiting for B&H and Adorama, finally getting my lens from Japan. After shipping costs were taken into account, it only worked out about $15 more than the US price from B&H (had I been able to get one) and about 35% cheaper than in Australia. The lens isn't shipping in Austalia yet, and the cheapest way to get it is to buy it with the camera and flog the camera on eBay. Almost did that, but it really wasn't worth the effort making eBay and PayPal richer.

  36. #86
    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: E-P2 out

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterB666 View Post
    BTW, the movie mode in the G1 doesn't do quite as well as the E-P1 either
    perhaps if you wanted movie modes you could insert the H into the letter string and have the GH-1 ... which I think does better movies than the EP

    and while costs extra does have a lens which I'm told is quite stunning for use in video work ...


    Oh, when was the last time Harley Davidson won a motorcycle Grand Prix?
    in the 20's they were a genuine motorcycle enthusiasts company ... but after getting out of flat track racing they turned to the sort of crap that GM and other US car makers currently need market protection from the US govt ... but wait, so too did HD in the 70's


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    Re: E-P2 out

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterB666 View Post
    The comparision with the Harley Davidson is interesting. I have always considered them to be large and bloated & heavier than they need to be. Sounds more like the G1.
    I guess by 5g ... but you get a flash for that 5g penalty ;-)

    Maybe you are implying that people with the E-P1 are generally tough, large and hairy? Oh, when was the last time Harley Davidson won a motorcycle Grand Prix?
    could be ... :-) though mostly they're owned by 50 yo mid-life crisis guys who have more accidents because they're necks are so stiff that they can't turn their heads and see what's beside them before changing lanes :-)

    you can check the stats on that one too ;-) (btw, been on bikes most of my life ... done some instructing ... here's some of them)


    but anyway ... all written with a smile and good humor

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterB666 View Post
    A bit more seriously compared to my last post, I have seen 1 preliminary report on a pre-release model of the E-P2 indicate that the tracking focus works which is surprising as there is no other improvement to the AF. I wonder if Olympus will add tracking focus as a firmware download? Somehow I doubt is as the E-P1 pricing is a little steep.
    I'm curious if these things are already working in the preview models how long it will take for a firmware upgrade for the E-P1.

    I did read on the "four-thirds user" hands on preview that focus tracking will only work with micro 4/3 lenses. Won't work with 4/3 lenses:

    "The E-P2's new tracking AF system lets you select a subject to maintain focus on no matter where that subject wanders around the frame. However, this mode is only available when a Micro Four Thirds lens is fitted. Even Imager AF compatible Four Thirds lenses fitted to the E-P2 using the MMF-1 Four Thirds lens to Micro Four Thirds body adapter, cannot operate under tracking AF mode, or basic continuous AF mode."

    This is an improvement now lets see how many button clicks it takes (I hated having to get to the green box screen since it isn't where I tended to want to be (I do like the level, shooting info or even a histogram))

    "Another puzzle with E-System live view autofocus until now has been the inability to select, precisely, where you would like the AF point to be. Instead, you have had to make do with eleven fixed AF points. Now with the E-P2, using the magnified focus check Info mode, you can navigate the green focus box around the frame and focus will be directed to its position. Previously you needed to press 'OK' and to be in magnified view to force the AF to that point."

    http://fourthirds-user.com/2009/11/o...on_preview.php

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    Re: E-P2 out

    HI Peter
    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Olympus is one of the most conservative and careful companies and it takes them years to correct wrong directions.
    Well, they were first with:

    from the ground up digital design (4/3)
    live view (Dpreview called it a solution waiting for a problem )
    articulating LCD on dSLR
    sensor cleaning (SSWD - and it's still the best)
    large sensor interchangeable lens digital

    and that's just off the top of my head!
    calling them conservative and careful seems a bit harsh.

    On the other hand, they seem to be able to get frustratingly close to something wonderful . . . . and never quite go the last mile! (I guess that could be construed as taking years to correct wrong directions).

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It's important to remember that the kind of people who discuss photography on internet fora, represent a very tiny fraction of the market. The EP-1 apparently sells like hotcakes, and I suspect that it has little to do with photographic qualities or ergonomics, but a lot to do with "coolness" factor.

    A few friends of mind, whose photographic abilities are mostly limited to pointing the camera in the general direction of the subject and then push the shutter release, have bought it and are very pleased... with the looks

    They will never notice that an EP-2 has been released unless they need a black version to match the evening dress or tuxedo (and what is that little plastic thingy that came with the camera?).
    Quite right Jorgen. and some of those people will then actually get involved and start getting good pictures (I know several young people who have).

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    LOL, what I find even more frustrating is Panny's seeming inability to supply enough cameras to sell. Right now on Amazon the GF-1 kits are selling for 2x the MSRP.
    It may as well be vapor ware.
    But the G-1 and GH-1 are available...go figure.
    Well, I had my Gf1 up for sale here for a couple of weeks - 20% off LNIB, and nobody was remotely interested (go figure).

    My dealer took it back as a demo and I went back to the E-P1 (after I saw the announcement of the E-P1), because I value the IS for different lenses more than the faster autofocus, and I find the E-P1 nicer to hold . . . . and although the panasonic kit zoom has advantages, it's also that critical bit bigger (coat pocket critical).

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    There are GF1s around though--I know the seller on Ebay is outrageous--hope no one is duped into buying there. Samy's on the west coast has had them pretty regularly, Robert/Monza had them--may still have the 14-45 kit, and I've seen links to various smaller stores all over the US that has them in stock--some on the shelves. Its hard to track them down though unless someone gives a link. I understand that Panasonic.com has been shipping them regularly also even though they say they are out of stock.

    Diane
    Makes me think. Maybe I'm going to sell mine to generate 60% of the cash needed for an X1

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, I had my Gf1 up for sale here for a couple of weeks - 20% off LNIB, and nobody was remotely interested (go figure).

    My dealer took it back as a demo and I went back to the E-P1 (after I saw the announcement of the E-P1), because I value the IS for different lenses more than the faster autofocus, and I find the E-P1 nicer to hold . . . . and although the panasonic kit zoom has advantages, it's also that critical bit bigger (coat pocket critical).
    Jono, I saw yours was not ready to buy then tho
    I am just appalled at the price-gouging going on with these cameras.
    Personally, I too lean far more towards the Olys both from size and IQ; may hold out for the EP-2 tho. I prefer the jpegs I get from my e410/510 and the tests seem to show the EP jpeg engine to be very very good indeed.

  44. #94
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    Re: E-P2 out

    Hi Jono

    couple of questions if you don't mind

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, I had my Gf1 up for sale
    ......
    , because I value the IS for different lenses more than the faster autofocus, and I find the E-P1 nicer to hold . . . . and ... it's also that critical bit bigger (coat pocket critical).
    as a 4/3rds user I'm guessing that you don't see the E-P1 as a replacement for your 4/3 system so much as something to augment it or work in areas that it doesn't cover.

    Do you use the camera in "hold out before you" mode or are you intending to use a view finder?

    I have this problem with my arms starting to be at a bit of a stretch to reliably use the rear screen for focusing, and to be honest if I was wanting to ensure that the focus was spot on with the E-P1 I'd probably need to put some readers on ... so this means that I'd be needing to rely on the AF and probably not be using any of my manual focus lenses with it.

    I've found for "candid portraits" in groups that the camera balanced on a chair or my knee and using the swivel screen and zoom works really well on the G1 ... people just don't seem to notice or if they do don't react as much to me "holding a camera out at them"

    To me it seems that the screen on the E-P1 / 2 is not really amenable to making focus decisions unless right behind it ...

    how do you feel about this, and do you use the camera in another manner which makes these issues insignificant for your usage style?

    thanks

    PS ... some "portrait" styles I have been taking with a 50 f1.8 in family gatherings



    in the above, DOF is quite shallow, so focus is important ... and below



    being close to kids without them becoming aware of the camera can be harder ... thus the stealth camera on knee and looking down at swivel screen works to 'hide' behind
    Last edited by pellicle; 6th November 2009 at 06:26.

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    The G1 prism was no problem for me, but it was a common complaint on other forums. Now that the E-P2 EVF is out, maybe people will start looking back at the G1 and realizing just how good a design it is.
    Totally agree. The G1's finder is amazing. And faux SLR pentaprism aside, the camera is still no where near the 'rock' in size that typical APS-C (and larger) DSLRs look like hanging on people's necks.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Hi There

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Hi Jono

    couple of questions if you don't mind
    I'll do my best . . . but you don't want to listen to me!

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    as a 4/3rds user I'm guessing that you don't see the E-P1 as a replacement for your 4/3 system so much as something to augment it or work in areas that it doesn't cover.
    Well, I'm not using the other 4/3 stuff so much these days, it rather falls between the A900 and the Leica M
    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Do you use the camera in "hold out before you" mode or are you intending to use a view finder?
    I use it in 'hold out before me' mode . . . but generally speaking I hold it down and forwards, trust the AF and frame with the viewfinder at quite an acute angle (it works very well from different angles - flipout LCDs are great, but they're a fiddle when you want to change position).

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    I have this problem with my arms starting to be at a bit of a stretch to reliably use the rear screen for focusing, and to be honest if I was wanting to ensure that the focus was spot on with the E-P1 I'd probably need to put some readers on ... so this means that I'd be needing to rely on the AF and probably not be using any of my manual focus lenses with it.
    I'm mostly relying on the AF myself - although I usually have it set on AF+mf. I find it pretty easy to MF on the LCD though. Of course, the E-P1 focuses noticeably slower than the panasonic, but I'm not usually in that much of a hurry, and I'll often prefocus and then snap at the right moment.

    As for manual focus lenses . . . they'll stay on the Leica M
    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    I've found for "candid portraits" in groups that the camera balanced on a chair or my knee and using the swivel screen and zoom works really well on the G1 ... people just don't seem to notice or if they do don't react as much to me "holding a camera out at them"

    To me it seems that the screen on the E-P1 / 2 is not really amenable to making focus decisions unless right behind it ...
    I don't really agree, it does have a very acute angle of view, and I think one is even less obvious if you don't have to be fiddling around swivelling a screen.
    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    how do you feel about this, and do you use the camera in another manner which makes these issues insignificant for your usage style?
    thanks
    I'm not sure that's very helpful, I'm not really using it as a rangefinder substitute - it'll be used a lot for nature and closeup and snapshot stuff.

    this gallery shows the way it's more likely to be used:
    Saturday with a Pen

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Jono

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I'm not sure that's very helpful, I'm not really using it as a rangefinder substitute - it'll be used a lot for nature and closeup and snapshot stuff.

    this gallery shows the way it's more likely to be used:
    Saturday with a Pen
    thanks for taking the time ... it is helpful to me at least as then I can undertand what someone is doing with a camera. This helps me to undertand the requirements if not the personal style :-)

    I find myself wanting another camera to augment the G1 and and the GF-1 and the EP are obvious (to me) choices ... I'm beginning to lean towards the EP-2 just to see what I think (leg each side of the fence).

    thanks for your thoughts

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    Re: E-P2 out

    HI Lili
    Quote Originally Posted by Lili View Post
    Jono, I saw yours was not ready to buy then tho
    I am just appalled at the price-gouging going on with these cameras.
    Personally, I too lean far more towards the Olys both from size and IQ; may hold out for the EP-2 tho. I prefer the jpegs I get from my e410/510 and the tests seem to show the EP jpeg engine to be very very good indeed.
    Each to his own I guess, my reason was mostly to do with the IS, and I just like it better (silly me!). It was also because C1 supports it (whereas it doesn't support the Panasonic), and right now I really don't want to get into lightroom.

    I didn't need the Ep-2, as I really wouldn't use a plug in EVF (never used it on the ricoh's) - and I don't need scene modes! (and I rather like the silver).

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  49. #99
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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Peter

    Well, they were first with:

    from the ground up digital design (4/3)
    live view (Dpreview called it a solution waiting for a problem )
    articulating LCD on dSLR
    sensor cleaning (SSWD - and it's still the best)
    large sensor interchangeable lens digital

    and that's just off the top of my head!
    calling them conservative and careful seems a bit harsh.

    On the other hand, they seem to be able to get frustratingly close to something wonderful . . . . and never quite go the last mile! (I guess that could be construed as taking years to correct wrong directions).
    Many of these I subscribe!

    What I found frustrating (during my E1 time) that they took ages (think around 3 - 4 years) before they came with the E3 and my copy of the E3 was just garbage - so I finally sold the whole system and never had any regrets.

    I hope they do a better job with MFT as this has great potential especially in the compact market.

    But yes I agree, they many times had (have) great new ideas and strategies, although execution is very often frustrating and they kick themselves out of the ring too often. And I do not want to get back to analog times of the OM System (OM1 and OM2 being absolutely great cameras, but then no real serious improvements with number of flaws same time). As you can judge of these lines I was a OM user myself for long years ....

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    Re: E-P2 out

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    What I found frustrating (during my E1 time) that they took ages (think around 3 - 4 years) before they came with the E3 and my copy of the E3 was just garbage - so I finally sold the whole system and never had any regrets.
    "Way back when" I had the Oly E10. We were promised an interchangeable lens DSLR--and promised--and promised. All we saw for a long time was a wooden mockup. I finally gave it up and moved back to Canon with the D60 and D30 with several more upgrades up to the 5D 4 years ago. If they hadn't dragged their feet, I might still be an Oly shooter.

    Its old history, but it did move a number of us to other systems and we were lost forever as Oly customers. I just never looked at 4/3rds again--until the m4/3rds. It didn't have to do with their offerings--just that they were beyond slow.

    Diane

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