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Thread: Macro

  1. #101
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    Re: Macro

    First attempt at a focus stack (7 images; hand-held). Used PS4 - had an easier time aligning the images than CombineZP for some reason.

    Panasonic GH1+Tokina FD 90/2.5 @f/5.6
    Last edited by photoSmart42; 28th March 2010 at 12:12.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses
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  2. #102
    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
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    Re: Macro

    Beautiful shot!

  3. #103
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    Re: Macro

    Spring has started, lots of Ladybugs in my garden. 2 of the shots I took today. Hope you like em too...




  4. #104
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    Re: Macro

    It has warmed up enough bring out tiny ants.



    CZ Luminar 25/3.5, G1

  5. #105
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    Re: Macro

    I posted this on the IR thread. Here is an IR macro of one of my tools.



    Hacked G1, pen F macro 38/3.5, tubes, Hoya R72.
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  6. #106
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    Re: Macro

    Fantastic (scary) photograph Vivek!

    Michiel

  7. #107
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    Re: Macro

    Thanks, Michiel!

  8. #108
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    Re: Macro

    Wow Vivek, that is truly bizarre, and fabulous all at the same time.

    Are you planning to document your IR hack for the G1 by chance? I imagine quite a few people here would be interested.

    Cheers,

  9. #109
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    Re: Macro

    Thanks, Simon.

    About your question, let me explain.

    I am undecided (detailing what I did- anywhere).

    I am all for this fabulous forum and great members here.

    I bought my two G1s from Mike Hatam (which is now converted) and Robert Campbell at great prices (both were mint!). Cindy Flood kindly gifted me with the AA/IR/UV cut filter from a G1. I am ever so grateful for all this kind help.

    I totalled my original G1 (~680 Euros) in my first attempt. I still have the totalled one. So, I can help out anyone with specific queries. Let me just post a word of caution: Every single piece of the sensor unit has to be dismantled before the filter replacement can be done. This isn't for anyone willing to hack anything. Given that Precision Cameras do this at a very decent price (a bargain, I must say, given the amount of complexities with this particular camera), I would strongly recommend that it be done through them.

    My converted one isn't an IR cam (deliberately so). I still have to mount filters (of my choice) in front of the lens.

    My postings here have been a bit ambiguous at times (about Pana): I have never said this before about any camera company...I am truly appreciative of Panasonic. The NMOS sensor of theirs is simply unparalleled, IMHO.

    Can't wait for the G2..

  10. #110
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    Re: Macro

    Vivek,

    Thanks for the background and the warning. I think I agree that the prudent thing would be to use Precision Camera.

    Cheers,

  11. #111
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    Re: Macro

    Panasonic G1


    Canon fd200mm f4 macrolens


    Kiron 105mm f2.8 with Vivitar 10+ macroadapter


    Kiron 105mm f2.8 with Vivitar 10+ macroadapter

  12. #112
    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: Macro

    Some pictures from my walk this afternoon with the G1 and 45mm f.28 macro lens. More at my site.


    Attachment 29843 Attachment 29842


    Attachment 29845 Attachment 29844

    Cheers,
    Last edited by simonclivehughes; 12th September 2010 at 12:35.

  13. #113
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    Re: Macro

    My efforts: GF1 + 45/2.8




  14. #114
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    Re: Macro

    Finally got my cheap microscope objectives and my M42-to-RMS adapter. The lens is only about 14 cm away from the sensor, so it's not a huge magnification (I'll get there once I get my bellows and some fiber lights), but it shows potential. This was taken handheld with lighting provided by my 60W desk lamp. Clearly not the best lens out there, but I didn't want to start off my journey into microscopy by springing for an $800 high-quality objective just yet. Next test - using an enlarger lens.

    Pencil scribblings on a Post-It
    Panasonic GH1 + AO 10x/0.25; 1/200s @ ISO800


    [Tiny] section of a wooden bear ornament
    Panasonic GH1 + AO 4x/0.1; 1/250s @ ISO250
    Last edited by photoSmart42; 3rd May 2010 at 20:58.
    -Dragos
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  15. #115
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    Re: Macro

    Dragos, Do these lenses have apertures that can be varied or fixed?

    If looking for real macro lenses, go for the best- Zeiss Luminars.

    Enlarger lenses also do fine for near macro (~1X) work.

  16. #116
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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Dragos, Do these lenses have apertures that can be varied or fixed?

    If looking for real macro lenses, go for the best- Zeiss Luminars.

    Enlarger lenses also do fine for near macro (~1X) work.
    Vivek, these are simple microscope objectives with fixed apertures. I only spent about $25 each, so for the time being they fit the bill for my latest experiments =).

    Some day (soon I think) I'll be able to afford the better Zeiss Luminars, or the Macro Nikkors, or even some of the Nikkor microscope objectives. I also need to get some better lighting solutions in the form of some light guides with a light source if I want to go higher magnification. In time, all will be good .
    -Dragos
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  17. #117
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    Re: Macro

    Finally, I put together a couple of dedicated m4/3rds focus mounts with quite a bit of flexibility.

    Young Aphids on a rose bud.



    G1, Zeiss Luminar 25/3.5, 1/40s, ISO400, flash/modifier.

  18. #118
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    Re: Macro

    Tulip petals.
    E400, Oly 50mm f2 macro lens.




  19. #119
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    Re: Macro

    A few shots I took using the 4x microscope objective with the new Canon FL bellows I just got the other day. These are small beads on the side of a small figurine. I estimate these to be roughly 8x magnification.

    Panasonic GH1 + Canon FL Bellows + AO 4x/0.17; 1/8s @ ISO200




    -Dragos
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  20. #120
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    Re: Macro

    I got my first enlarger lens, so here are some initial test shots with it. I'm getting the feeling this little figurine is becoming my favorite macro test subject (lots of colors and textures). I'm about to buy an illuminator with some light guides so I can solve my lighting issue and start shooting these at lower ISO and higher shutter speeds.

    Panasonic GH1 + Canon FL Bellows + Fujinon-EP 50/3.5 @ f/5.6; ISO800 @ 1/50s


    Same lens reversed


    Feedback always appreciated.
    Last edited by photoSmart42; 14th May 2010 at 11:27.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  21. #121
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    Re: Macro

    Bleeding Hearts ~1X



    G1, ISO100, 1/160s, S-Planar 74/4 @ f/5.6, Nikon SB-24, flash modifier.

  22. #122
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    Re: Macro

    Detail of a DVD after a quick 2-sec burst in my microwave oven (don't try this at home!).

    Panasonic GH1 + Canon FL bellows + AO 4x/0.17; 21-image stack in PS/CS4
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  23. #123
    klythawk
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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It has warmed up enough bring out tiny ants.



    CZ Luminar 25/3.5, G1
    Great shot Vivek.

  24. #124
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    Re: Macro

    Figured I'd spread the wealth between this thread and the 4/3 image thread. Some more photos with my Fujinon-EP enlarger lens on my GH1. Just about exactly 1:1.





    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses
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  25. #125
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    Re: Macro

    John, Thanks.

    Dragos, The Fujinon enlarger lenses seem sharp. I found out that I have a few that came from an APS-C printing machine. I will have to hack off the rear, add a mount and use them.

  26. #126
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    Re: Macro

    Dragos, that 2nd one with the bug covered in yellow is awesome! great shot!

  27. #127
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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    Dragos, that 2nd one with the bug covered in yellow is awesome! great shot!
    Thank you! I'm very happy with the way it came out as well. I'd been having issues capturing good bug photos all day, but this one just kinda unfolded and I saw this moment happening so I prepared for it.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  28. #128
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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Dragos, The Fujinon enlarger lenses seem sharp. I found out that I have a few that came from an APS-C printing machine. I will have to hack off the rear, add a mount and use them.
    Thanks, Vivek. Supposedly the Fujinon-EP lenses are supposed to be very sharp, so this one I got certainly seems to confirm that. It's certainly as capable of a macro lens as my Tokina 90/2.5. With the setup I had here I'm getting 1:1 out of a very light lens at the end of some empty tubes (a set of M42 extension tubes at the end of my FD-to-mFT adapter), which also makes it fairly compact. Not bad for $20 I think.

    The only thing that was an issue was the working distance because I'm using a 50. I'm looking to get something in the 100-150mm range next if I can get something as cheap. I've heard good things about the EL-Nikkors, and I almost got my hands on an APO-Rodagon and a few Componon-S and Componon-HM enlargers a few weeks ago for cheap. I'll keep an eye out for those.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  29. #129
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    Re: Macro

    Dragos, APO-Componons (badged HM or otherwise) are the ones to get when you can.

    I will dust up mine (40-45 range and a 60) and press them into action for a few sample shots soon.

  30. #130
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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Dragos, APO-Componons (badged HM or otherwise) are the ones to get when you can.

    I will dust up mine (40-45 range and a 60) and press them into action for a few sample shots soon.
    I'm seriously considering selling my Tokina 90/2.5 to help finance the purchase of an APO Componon-HM 90. The only use I have for the Tokina is for macro work, and for the most part I use it fully extended, either with or without the extender. Using the enlarger lens was a joy compared to the big, heavy Tokina, and the IQ is definitely comparable if not better.

    In the mean time, I picked up a Fujinon-EP 135 for about $25 to go with my EP 50, so I'll take that out for a spin to see how well it does. It won't be as high of a magnification factor as the 50, but it'll give me that longer working distance.
    Last edited by photoSmart42; 27th May 2010 at 17:35.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  31. #131
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    Re: Macro

    Bee joint covered in spider webbing.

    Panasonic GH1 + AO 4x/0.10 160/0.17
    -Dragos
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  32. #132
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    Re: Macro

    Hi All.
    I recieved the 35mm Olympus Macro lens today and have been playing with it non stop. I have a great deal of respect for everyone who shoots such detailed and close photography because i now know how demanding it is to try and get the DOF correct.
    How anyone can shoot some of the images here i just dont know, Fantastic work (although the spider pics make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, i hate spiders..)
    Im looking forward to learning a new area of photography that i had never thought about until i saw the pics on here. Thankyou to you all for opening my eyes to this amazing perspective.
    I only have one pic to share as all the others were a bit blurry (its that DOF thing again) and even this one isnt great.
    Its the end of a ciggy. (not mine, my wife smokes )

    ISO 100 F6.3 200thsec Edited in Lightroom 2.7

    Thanks J
    Last edited by JGH; 12th July 2011 at 11:52.

  33. #133
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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by JGH View Post
    How anyone can shoot some of the images here i just dont know, Fantastic work (although the spider pics make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, i hate spiders..)
    To be honest I'm using macro photography as a tool that will hopefully help me overcome my mortal fear of spiders as well. I took a photo of one with a 50mm lens the other day, and it was way too close for comfort (I kept imagining this spider, which was pretty large, jumping from his web and somehow eating me alive...).

    Quote Originally Posted by JGH View Post
    Im looking forward to learning a new area of photography that i had never thought about until i saw the pics on here. Thankyou to you all for opening my eyes to this amazing perspective.
    Welcome to the crazy world that is macro photography. There's SO much to learn, and so many pieces of gear to experiment with. It's in part what makes it so much fun (and frustrating at times).

    Quote Originally Posted by JGH View Post
    I only have one pic to share as all the others were a bit blurry (its that DOF thing again) and even this one isnt great.
    Its the end of a ciggy. (not mine, my wife smokes )

    ISO 100 F6.3 200thsec Edited in Lightroom 2.7

    Thanks J
    That's a very nice photo! I love the detail, the simplicity, and the color contrast between the brown tobacco leaves, the white paper wrap, and the blue background. Outstanding!
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  34. #134
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    Re: Macro

    JGH,

    I think you nailed it (slang for very good).

    Larry

  35. #135
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    Re: Macro

    Hi All.
    Many thanks for your encouraging words Photosmart42 & Leuallen, i was experimenting again this morning and managed to get a few more shots.
    Strange how when you look at something everything appears ok then when you get a close up of it you can see the imperfections and dust.!!!!!
    Lots of it to....yuk..!!! So you think your house is clean? Take some macro shots of it and prepare to be horrified...I dare not show the wife she will have me hoovering for months.
    Anyway some feedback on these would be appreciated and advice is always welcomed.

    Thanks J

    Book ISO400 F3.5 1/20th sec 35mm All edited in Lightroom 2.7


    Circuit Board ISO400 F3.5 1/13th sec 35mm


    Forest Mushrooms ISO800 F3.5 1/80th sec 35mm -1.3EV


    Pumice Stone ISO400 F3.5 1/50th sec 35mm

  36. #136
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    Re: Macro

    Hi All, had a day off work today, here a few of todays efforts.







    One MAJOR thing i learned today taking macro shots is, if possible, always wash or clean the subject. Its that dust stuff again..
    This is my lucky charm that i carry with me hence all the dust and fluff.

    If your wondering, its a 9mm bullet.

    Thanks J

  37. #137
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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by JGH View Post
    This is my lucky charm that i carry with me hence all the dust and fluff.

    If your wondering, its a 9mm bullet.

    Thanks J
    Nice! Is there a story that goes with it that you'd care to share? It's not something that actually hit you, is it?
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  38. #138
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    Re: Macro

    Awash in color (flower petals close up)

    Panasonic GH1 + Fujinon-EP 1:3.5/50 @ f/11




    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  39. #139
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    Re: Macro

    Hi Photosmart42.
    No nothing sinister or exciting behind that bullet.
    Before i moved to the Czech Republic i was a member of a shooting club in North London, and this bullet is one i retreaved from the sandbank backstop.
    Thought it was kinda cool as all the others were mangled beyond recognition and this one wasn't. So i kept it.

    Thanks for looking, this thread doesn't get many visitors, which is a shame as there are some great pics. Im lovin this 35mm Macro lens.

    Thanks J

  40. #140
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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by JBurnett View Post
    As with MOST things these days, concepts and definitions can be skewed or muddied by marketing spin, and also by benign attempts to explain things in terms others will understand.

    What I personally EXPECT:

    a) 1:1 means that a 5mm long grain of rice is imaged 5mm long on my sensor or film. In other words, LIFE SIZE. This doesn't matter if I'm using a Point and Shoot, or a 4 x 5" view camera. If I could make CONTACT prints from any of these cameras, the image of the 5mm grain of rice would be 5mm long.
    .
    CORRECT...... Making it simple
    .
    b) That a lens labelled as "macro" should provide at least 1:2 magnification (that is, the 5mm-long grain of rice is imaged 2.5mm long on the sensor or film). Bear in mind that this is just a long-standing marketing convention that I consider acceptable.

    What I sometimes ENCOUNTER (and must interpret):

    a) Marketing claims of 1:1 that are based on the "crop factor". The actual magnification is less.
    .
    Because a 1/2 life-size for FF cameras is all you need for 1:1 Life-Size on a 4/3 camera to produce a 1:1 Life-size image.
    CORRECT... A Full Frame Lens set on 1:1 setting on a CROP camera will produce a higher magnification because of the CROPPED section of LIFE-SIZE Image produced by the Full Frame Lens on a CROP CAMERA..
    Example....
    On a 2x crop it will result in a 2x life-size image set at the lenses 1:1 setting...BECAUSE of the smaller sensor capturing only 1/2 of the image the lens is producing. The LENS is still capturing a 1:1 image for FF cameras, but the in camera crop only "Sees" 1/2 the image.. Thus... a 2:1 (or 2x life-size) image for a 2x crop camera.

    .

    A Lens MADE for a 2x crop camera at it's 1:1 setting, will produce on a Full Frame Camera an image that is 1/2 Life-size.


    b) Marketing labels of "macro" that are nowhere near 1:2 (e.g. 1:4, 1:6 or even less), or that are based on other criteria such as standard print sizes.

    c) In addition to MACRO, the term MICRO has also be used to describe a VARIETY of magnifications (e.g. Micro-Nikkor at 1:1). As with MACRO photography, one must similarly look beyond the label.
    Reply in UNDERLINE above....
    Last edited by M5-Guy; 3rd June 2010 at 13:30.

  41. #141
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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by M5-Guy View Post
    Reply in UNDERLINE above....
    The underlined text, if that's your edit, is completely wrong (unless I'm not understanding what you're writing). The definition of magnification is the difference in relative size between the actual object and the image formed. A 1:1 magnified image on a FF camera will still be a 1:1 image on a m4/3 camera, you'll just see less of it because of the crop. The relative size of the object imaged hasn't changed from one to the other just because you're changing sensor formats. I can tell you from experience that my 1:1 FF lenses give me 1:1 magnifications on my m4/3 cameras.

    Offered as a reference:

    from the Encyclopędia Britannica

    Magnification: in optics, the size of an image relative to the size of the object creating it.
    Last edited by photoSmart42; 3rd June 2010 at 14:15.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  42. #142
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    Re: Macro

    Quote:
    from the Encyclopędia Britannica

    Magnification: in optics, the size of an image relative to the size of the object creating it.


    Only the British can come up with such laconic definitions to create the most useless of interpretations.

    That is going to make Peter's day (see earlier part of the thread).

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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Quote:
    from the Encyclopędia Britannica



    Only the British can come up with such laconic definitions to create the most useless of interpretations.

    That is going to make Peter's day (see earlier part of the thread).
    LOL to be honest I struggled with the same distinction (as you know from the other thread) until I actually started taking photos with measured magnification. Frankly thank you for challenging my views because it's what made me research it more and discover the reality of magnification vs. crop.

    I expected to have my 90/2.5 macro lens produce 2x magnification images (2:1) on my GH1, but lo and behold is still produced 1:1 images. 18mm worth of rule stretched across the entire horizontal, making it the same size as my sensor width. Ahhh, the light bulb went on - of course, relative object size to image size, which is something I'd learned so long ago in physics class.

    P.S. I quoted Britannica simple because I don't have access to my physics books, so it was the most credible resource I could find online. They're somewhere in storage, but they have the exact same definition of magnification. I didn't want to quote Wikipedia (which also says the same thing) for concern over quoting some 'internet opinion' rather than scientific facts.
    Last edited by photoSmart42; 3rd June 2010 at 14:50.
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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by photoSmart42 View Post
    The underlined text, if that's your edit, is completely wrong (unless I'm not understanding what you're writing). The definition of magnification is the difference in relative size between the actual object and the image formed. A 1:1 magnified image on a FF camera will still be a 1:1 image on a m4/3 camera, you'll just see less of it because of the crop. The relative size of the object imaged hasn't changed from one to the other just because you're changing sensor formats. I can tell you from experience that my 1:1 FF lenses give me 1:1 magnifications on my m4/3 cameras.

    Offered as a reference:
    I stated that a lens for 35mm film (FF), at 1:1 will still produce a 1:1 image on a 4/3, BUT, because of the crop factor, you only get a central portion of the 1:1 image, it records only 1/2 of the 1:1 image circle, so, "On the sensor" you get a 2:1 image. That is: you get an image comparable to a 2:1 MR. same principle how a lens has a shorter FOV if you are using lens for FF on a crop sensor camera.A FL is still a FL, BUT, if the sensor only captures a part of it, it is LIKE using a longer a lens a camera. As with any lens, macro or not....

    Now, what has happened is that because we have 5 different sensor sizes for Interchangeable cameras (FF, 1.3, 1.5, 1.6, 2.0) we always refer back to FF 35mm as our guide to help us grasp at what FOV we are essentially getting with our lenses. Hence the Crop Factor marketing.. Not a bad thing at times, since we all (those over 25) can visualize what a 28mm lens captures compared to a 50mm.

    But, the fact remains.. A FF lens at 1:1 on a 2x crop camera will have a FOV of a 2:1 macro lens...even though the lens is set at 1:1. That FOV factor holds true for any magnification. So, on my K20d (1.5 crop), I will get with my 105 macro set at 1:1 a FOV = to 1:1.5 image. or 1 and 1/2 times bigger than 1:1, because the sensor is recording less. Therefore, the cropped images from my FF 105 macro at 1:1 IS LIKE being 1/2 again closer on a 1.5 crop.

    Just like enlarging a negative....If I have a 1/2 life-size image on the negative, and raise the enlarger until the image is LIFE-SIZE on the paper holder... you will get a 1:1 Life-Size enlargement on my paper... The Negative is still at 1:2, BUT the print is at 1:1. A crop camera would be like RAISING UP the paper holder until the image was at 1:1 (instead of raising the enlarger higher)

    So, if a lens is made for 4/3 camera has a setting for 1:1 it is for THAT format. it was made to produce a 1:1 image with a smaller image circle. So the lens may focus at a different point than the same focal length made for a FF camera that has a larger image circle.
    Last edited by M5-Guy; 3rd June 2010 at 15:50.

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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by M5-Guy View Post
    But, the fact remains.. A FF lens at 1:1 on a 2x crop camera will have a FOV of a 2:1 macro lens...even though the lens is set at 1:1. That FOV factor holds true for any magnification. So, on my K20d (1.5 crop), I will get with my 105 macro set at 1:1 a FOV = to 1:1.5 image. or 1 and 1/2 times bigger than 1:1, because the sensor is recording less. Therefore, the the cropped images from my FF 105 macro at 1:1 IS LIKE being 1/2 again closer on a 1.5 crop.
    As long as you're talking APPARENT magnification, we're OK. The actual magnification stays the same, you simply see less of the image.

    Quote Originally Posted by M5-Guy View Post
    Just like enlarging a negative....If I have a 1/2 life-size image on the negative, and raise the enlarger until the image is LIFE-SIZE on the paper holder... you will get a 1:1 Life-Size enlargement on my paper... The Negative is still at 1:2, BUT the print is at 1:1. A crop camera would be like RAISING UP the paper holder until the image was at 1:1 (instead of raising the enlarger higher)
    Well, the crop would actually be like inserting a smaller piece of paper and not changing anything else on the enlarger positioning. Still the exact same image, but you're only capturing a smaller piece of it. A 4x5 camera at 1:1 would see an object that's 4x5 fill the screen, just as a 35mm film camera would see a 36x24mm section of that 4x5 object, just as a m4/3 camera would see a 17x13mm section of that same 4x5 object.

    Quote Originally Posted by M5-Guy View Post
    o, if a lens is made for 4/3 camera has a setting for 1:1 it is for THAT format. it was made to produce a 1:1 image with a smaller image circle. So the lens may focus at a different point than the same focal length made for a FF camera that has a larger image circle.
    No, that's where we differ. 1:1 remains 1:1 regardless of format as long as you keep everything else the same. The lens setting for that format is only relevant in terms of getting the flange distance and lens geometry correct to form the proper in-focus image on that sensor.

    As I wrote above, my Tokina 90/2.5 at its 1:1 setting still produces a 1:1 magnification on my GH1 (measured experimentally). If I take that lens and keep it at the same exact focus point from the object I just photographed on my GH1, and simply detach the FD adapter from my GH1 and attach my Canon F-1 instead, I'll see the same magnification, but I'll have a larger field of view of the same scene. My apparent magnification will be different, but my actual magnification in relation to my imaging plane will be the same. The focus point of the lens doesn't change, because if I move my focus point I end up changing the magnification.

    There's really no mystery to this, although it's a bit confusing. As long as we're not talking about apparent magnifications, then the laws of physics apply - magnification is defined as the ratio between the actual size of an object and the imaged size of that same object. The cropping issue simply muddles things by introducing equivalent FOVs and apparent magnifications into play. On top of that, if we throw in different sensor resolutions and print sizes we really muck this up =).
    Last edited by photoSmart42; 3rd June 2010 at 16:22.
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    Re: Macro

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by M5-Guy View Post
    o, if a lens is made for 4/3 camera has a setting for 1:1 it is for THAT format. it was made to produce a 1:1 image with a smaller image circle. So the lens may focus at a different point than the same focal length made for a FF camera that has a larger image circle. End Quote


    No, that's where we differ. 1:1 remains 1:1 regardless of format as long as you keep everything else the same. The lens setting for that format is only relevant in terms of getting the flange distance and lens geometry correct to form the proper in-focus image on that sensor.

    As I wrote above, my Tokina 90/2.5 at its 1:1 setting still produces a 1:1 magnification on my GH1 (measured experimentally). If I take that lens and keep it at the same exact focus point from the object I just photographed on my GH1, and simply detach the FD adapter from my GH1 and attach my Canon F-1 instead, I'll see the same magnification, but I'll have a larger field of view of the same scene. My apparent magnification will be different, but my actual magnification in relation to my imaging plane will be the same. The focus point of the lens doesn't change, because if I move my focus point I end up changing the magnification.

    Well, OK, But at least I understand that 1:1 is 1:1, regardless of crop factor... Yes, by FOV I meant "Apparent" magnification. Understanding that I am just looking a 1:1 image albeit, only a part of it though with a crop. I did say it was a cropped view of a 1:1 image. I don't think we disagree, you just explain a bit differently, that's all.
    A 100mm lens is a 100m lens regardless of what format.... BUT, on a 35mm FF is a short telephoto. On a 1/2 frame 35mm it is a telephoto, on a 6x9 it is a normal lens, on an 8x10 it is a wide angle. Yes, The lens has to be made to have the proper image circle for the format. But it is still 100mm lens.

    There's really no mystery to this, although it's a bit confusing. As long as we're not talking about apparent magnifications, then the laws of physics apply - magnification is defined as the ratio between the actual size of an object and the imaged size of that same object. The cropping issue simply muddles things by introducing equivalent FOVs and apparent magnifications into play.

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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by M5-Guy View Post
    Well, OK, But at least I understand that 1:1 is 1:1, regardless of crop factor... Yes, by FOV I meant "Apparent" magnification. Understanding that I am just looking a 1:1 image albeit, only a part of it though with a crop. I did say it was a cropped view of a 1:1 image. I don't think we disagree, you just explain a bit differently, that's all.
    A 100mm lens is a 100m lens regardless of what format.... BUT, on a 35mm FF is a short telephoto. On a 1/2 frame 35mm it is a telephoto, on a 6x9 it is a normal lens, on an 8x10 it is a wide angle. Yes, The lens has to be made to have the proper image circle for the format. But it is still 100mm lens.
    Fair enough =). Case of "we're saying the same thing differently".

    Let's post some more pretty pictures and move on

    -Dragos
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    Re: Macro

    Not 4/3rds, But thought I would post to make up any hurt feelings


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    Re: Macro

    Quote Originally Posted by M5-Guy View Post
    Not 4/3rds, But thought I would post to make up any hurt feelings
    Nonsense. No hurt feelings on my end at least. We're all adults on this forum, having an open intellectual conversation about a hotly debated topic that confuses most people. I can't say the same thing about the same conversation I've tried having on other forums ...

    That's pretty picture. Tulip? That's one of my favorite flowers, but we don't really have any native ones where I live. Plenty of these yellow wild flowers though:

    -Dragos
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    Re: Macro

    @photosmart42
    Yes, Tulip.
    Sunflower....We have those too in Indiana and a another native flower
    Orchid

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