Leica X1 to Panasonic GF-1 comparison by MR

[Peter Leyenaar]

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/x1-field.shtml

Michael R. feels that both cameras are on par up to and including ISO 8oo

Best Regards

Peter

 

[Vivek]

What much is there to compare? Completely different cameras.

What next compare- a disposable camera with a system camera?

 

[Terry]

What much is there to compare? Completely different cameras.

What next compare- a disposable camera with a system camera?

Boy, a little snippy this morning/afternoon.

There seems to be a huge overlap in the potential buyers for these two cameras which, to me, makes it completely logical that they be compared. If you use the GF1 with only the 20mm lens please explain why they are completely different cameras?

 

[Vivek]

Even by choice if one restricts to only one lens- say an M6 and a 35/2 Summicron, it still is a system camera with many possibilities/options and a disposable camera with a fixed lens would not be comparable simply because of the lack of potential.

OTOH, if it is a about a market. I do not have a clue.

[With the GF-1, one can always buy the "optional" EVF and make it even more useful. One can add system flashes too. It is all in the Panasonic website.]

There seems to be a huge overlap in the potential buyers for these two cameras which, to me, makes it completely logical that they be compared. If you use the GF1 with only the 20mm lens please explain why they are completely different cameras?

 

[Terry]

Even by choice if one restricts to only one lens- say an M6 and a 35/2 Summicron, it still is a system camera with many possibilities/options and a disposable camera with a fixed lens would not be comparable simply because of the lack of potential.

OTOH, if it is a about a market. I do not have a clue.

[With the GF-1, one can always buy the "optional" EVF and make it even more useful. One can add system flashes too. It is all in the Panasonic website.]

Yes, all of which accrue to the pro side of the GF1 vs the X1 but my point was at the heart of it if you are looking for a relatively compact camera with good IQ and better DOF control than you can get from a small sensor both qualify.

 

[Peter Leyenaar]

What much is there to compare? Completely different cameras.

What next compare- a disposable camera with a system camera?

The comparison is mostly based on image quality up to and including ISO 800, in addition to price and flexability

Anyone with some knowledge of the rule of thirds and knows how to hold a camera still, can get some good images, in other words , photography is not rocket science , more so an artistic endeavor.

Therefore, imo, it is perfectly acceptable to compare totally different cameras on the basis of image quality.
And what is so different anyway?.

 

[mark1958]

The lack of interchangeable lenses is a non starter for me. The iso 1600 from the leica look amazingly good and I think the leica controls are better designed. MR made a comment about the AF as well, which i think is extremely good with the GF1.

 

[peterb]

The GF1 with the 20mm f1.7 lens and optical finder* will provide equal if not better output at ISO 800 than the X1 which has lower noise at 1600 or 3200 (which you'd need the larger sensor for in the first place anyways).

Compared with the AF on the GF1 (and G1 and GH1) the X1 AF is a joke.

Leica's definition of IS is not what the rest of the photographic world thinks (and they had access to Panasonic's approach, too).

If you really want Leitz glass on the Lumix G's you can still get it. And, as good as the Elmarit (design) appears to be, they'll be equal if not better than the optic on the X1.

*I feel no need to get the GF1 with the EVF since with the EVF the GF1 is about the same size as the G1 for me. And compared to the G1's superb EVF the external EVF on the GF1 is like the AF on the X1! (And personally since I'd want an EVF on the GF1 and since the super HD EVF of the EP-2 won't work on it, I've decided to stick with my G1 and get the 20mm f1.7 which will create a package that I don't think will be all that much larger than the GF1. I end up spending $400 instead of $900.)

 

[ggibson]

Seems like any ISO advantage the X1 has over the GF1 is lost from having a slower f2.8 lens (a stop and a half compared to the 20mm 1.7).

To me the X1 has very few advantages over the GF1. Still, I'm sure a small group of people will revel in those differences. I see the X1 having an appeal similar to the way Sigma's DP1 or DP2 are truly loved by some.

 

[Streetshooter]

Seems like any ISO advantage the X1 has over the GF1 is lost from having a slower f2.8 lens (a stop and a half compared to the 20mm 1.7).

To me the X1 has very few advantages over the GF1. Still, I'm sure a small group of people will revel in those differences. I see the X1 having an appeal similar to the way Sigma's DP1 or DP2 are truly loved by some.

Guilty as charged!

 

[ecsh]

What was more telling was the MR went so far as to say that it would not be a street shooters camera.

 

[Brian Mosley]

Strange, Sean Reid's review (which is so extensive, I haven't made the time to read it all carefully) gives the impression the camera would be useable for street shooting.

I'm looking forward to seeing users here get their hands on it.

Cheers

Brian

 

[Vivek]

*I feel no need to get the GF1 with the EVF since with the EVF the GF1 is about the same size as the G1 for me. And compared to the G1's superb EVF the external EVF on the GF1 is like the AF on the X1! (And personally since I'd want an EVF on the GF1 and since the super HD EVF of the EP-2 won't work on it, I've decided to stick with my G1 and get the 20mm f1.7 which will create a package that I don't think will be all that much larger than the GF1. I end up spending $400 instead of $900.)

You and me.

 

[Terry]

Even though technically it is taller with the EVF, the GF1 still feels and handles like a smaller camera than the G1. If I had to chose between the two, I would still have a G1/GH1 as my first "form factor" but for a two body system, the two cameras compliment each other very well.

 

[Diane B]

Even though technically it is taller with the EVF, the GF1 still feels and handles like a smaller camera than the G1. If I had to chose between the two, I would still have a G1/GH1 as my first "form factor" but for a two body system, the two cameras compliment each other very well.

I was going to say the same. When you sit the 2 side by side, you still get a smaller feeling from the GF1 with the EVF---BUT--if I could only have one, G1 hands down.

I love having both--use them individually or together with 2 lenses---as Terry says, they compliment each other very well.

Diane

 

[jonoslack]

You Girls
Will always agree . . . but the true Nirvana is an EP1 with the 20 f1.7 . . . . .or is that an M9 with a 28 'cron?

EVFs stink (it's a well known fact - proved incontrovertibly by the laws of physics).

Frivolity aside, I think the X1 is interesting. Sean Reid thought it was good for street because of the manual (zone) focusing . . . Michael Reichman thought it wasn't because the AF was too slow.

On the other hand, I find it hard to see why it would be better than an EP1 with the 20 f1.7 (in body IS and better high ISO than the G cameras).

erm . .. am I being contentious?

 

[Terry]

On the other hand, I find it hard to see why it would be better than an EP1 with the 20 f1.7 (in body IS and better high ISO than the G cameras).

erm . .. am I being contentious?

You aren't being contentious IF you agree to actually match ISOs. It has been pretty well shown that the G1 understates the ISO. If you match exposures with the GF1 and E-P1 holding ISO and Aperture constant GF1 will use a faster shutter speed. I know that Sean is planning to test this in his GF1 and X1 reviews.

 

[Cindy Flood]

I'm with the "Girl's Club" on this. G1/GF1 does it for me, but if I could only have one, I'd keep the G1. Sadly, EP1 did not work for me because I need an EVF. That said, I have no loyalty to Panasonic, Olympus or Leica, so I'm open to anything new. X1 just does not interest me at that price point.

 

[jonoslack]

You aren't being contentious IF you agree to actually match ISOs. It has been pretty well shown that the G1 understates the ISO. If you match exposures with the GF1 and E-P1 holding ISO and Aperture constant GF1 will use a faster shutter speed. I know that Sean is planning to test this in his GF1 and X1 reviews.

oops, forgot about this . . sorry
so . . what about the in body IS?
one of the oddities, is that the lens seems to focus really well on the EP1 . . even in stupidly low light.

 

[jonoslack]

I'm with the "Girl's Club" on this. G1/GF1 does it for me, but if I could only have one, I'd keep the G1. Sadly, EP1 did not work for me because I need an EVF. That said, I have no loyalty to Panasonic, Olympus or Leica, so I'm open to anything new. X1 just does not interest me at that price point.

Hi Cindy
No - EVF's are dreadful (somebody proved this to be the case . . can't quite remember who )

of course, I'm just joking - each to his own, and they both have their advantages. I had a G1 (didn't like it), then I had an EP1, and it got swept up by Silas in the M9 testing . then I bought a GF1, and it really didn't float my boat, so I ended up back with an EP1. I think it's charming.