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Thread: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Is Ebay the only source for C-mount lenses these days? If so, it is a bizarre market out there. It strikes me as extremely variable with regards to the amount of money people are willing to pay from one auction to the next for the same lens in largely unclear condition .

    Anyone know someplace to buy C-mount lenses from a reputable seller who will be assuredly clear about the lens condition? I understand that prices have gone up a lot, and I can live with that, but I won't pay $1500 for a "mintish" old lens found at an estate sale and being sold by someone who "don't know about camera lenses".
    -Amin Sabet

  2. #2
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Is Ebay the only source for C-mount lenses these days? If so, it is a bizarre market out there. It strikes me as extremely variable with regards to the amount of money people are willing to pay from one auction to the next for the same lens in largely unclear condition .

    Anyone know someplace to buy C-mount lenses from a reputable seller who will be assuredly clear about the lens condition? I understand that prices have gone up a lot, and I can live with that, but I won't pay $1500 for a "mintish" old lens found at an estate sale and being sold by someone who "don't know about camera lenses".
    Antique shops and thrift shops sometimes are worth
    a look. I found a Wollensack for $5.00 at an antique
    shop, on Ebay they were asking ten times this price.

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    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Is Ebay the only source for C-mount lenses these days? If so, it is a bizarre market out there. It strikes me as extremely variable with regards to the amount of money people are willing to pay from one auction to the next for the same lens in largely unclear condition .

    Anyone know someplace to buy C-mount lenses from a reputable seller who will be assuredly clear about the lens condition? I understand that prices have gone up a lot, and I can live with that, but I won't pay $1500 for a "mintish" old lens found at an estate sale and being sold by someone who "don't know about camera lenses".
    http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l10128.html
    http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3943.html

  4. #4
    Abbazz
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Anyone know someplace to buy C-mount lenses from a reputable seller who will be assuredly clear about the lens condition?
    If you want guaranteed lens condition, why not buying new from a good shop?

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...916+4291756351

    Cheers!

    Abbazz

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    Senior Member Y.B.Hudson III's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    there are lense brokers in the film (cine) trades... you pay the market value, and they will stand behind the product...

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abbazz View Post
    If you want guaranteed lens condition, why not buying new from a good shop?

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...916+4291756351

    Cheers!

    Abbazz
    no, these are not the lenses you would want to use on your camera.
    You need cine class lenses from distant past (1940-1980s)

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Unfortunately no C-mount lenses are the same, due to the age and also due to the format itself. So buying from the store does not guarantee much. (unless its a bolex lens and you bought it directly from bolex Switzerland, but it will cost you way too much $$$)

    I have had some great experiences with eBay, so I would not discount it. Just avoid certain sellers that have very brief descriptions. (Also avoid those with super inflated prices and lack of knowledge whatsoever.)

    There are plenty of excellent eBayers with great descriptions, good pictures and great support behind their product. I found a few guys that are very helpful and I talk to them off eBay and even trade stuff with one guy, no problem. Send an email to the eBay seller with few questions and based on his/her reply you will see who you are dealing with. (very simple, but effective technique

    Good luck.

  8. #8
    Abbazz
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    no, these are not the lenses you would want to use on your camera.
    You need cine class lenses from distant past (1940-1980s)
    Sorry but I beg to differ. I use the Pentax 25/1.4, which is not a bad lens at all (see this thread) and I wouldn't say that I would not use a Schneider Xenon on my camera.

    Some cine lenses can be remarkable -- although I have a bunch of lemons in that category too -- but it's not fair to dismiss the CCTV lenses altogether, as some of them are really great: what about the Zeiss Televidon series?

    Cheers!

    Abbazz

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    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Thanks everyone!

    Has anyone seen samples of the Schneider Xenon 25/0.95 being sold at B&H used on a MFT camera? Does it cover as much of the frame as an Angenieux 25/0.95, for example?
    -Amin Sabet

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    I got my little Pentax at CCDWorld. Excellent service!
    "You live and learn; at any rate you live" (Douglas Adams)

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    I don't want to argue about qualities of CCTV vs Cinematographic lenses here, especially because I don't have a test data to compare. However, from my experience (working as a CCTV and Access Control Commodity Manager for one of the "Fortune's 50" company) I can reasonably conclude that Cine lenses should be substantially better than its CCTV counterparts.

    1. CCTV cameras generally only built to resolve 320x240 resolution (640x240 considered an HD, and even Megapixel cameras are not too demanding for lens quality) Low resolution is a must due to the storage constrains. Yes there are super resolution CCTV cameras that have been very recently introduced, but they have special lenses, C-mount lenses with manual iris and manual focus were not build for them.

    2. For decades big corporations considered CCTV lenses a Commodity and were demanding better pricing and not better quality and that is the reason the CCTV mnf do not use the same glass and other components that Cine customers have been enjoying.

    Even though during my career I procured millions of dollar worth of CCTV lenses, I had limited hand-on interaction with them, since my job was on the corporate side. But based on feedback that I collected from 100s of field offices, the lenses they preferred were Bosch lenses (again irrelevant since camera resolution was very small) I only tried one Fujinon lens on my G1 once (not too happy with performance btw)

    Regarding Schneider, I never tried or bought their CCTV lenses, but I did try plenty of Cine-Xenon and Cine-Xenar lenses. I liked most of them, (75mm f2 was one of the most memorable, and of course 50mm f0.95 which I still have in my collection) While I am not arguing that Xenon is a great lens design (cause its a copy of Cooke SP) I still don't know what will be the resolution that CCTV lens will produce.

    Amin, for the price of Xenon 25mm f0.95, I would rather get Angenieux 25/0.95 (just my honest opinion)

    Not all Cine lenses are great either (kern 25/1.4 in particular and most of older SOM Berthiot are not top notch in my opinion)

    All that said, if you can't afford Cine lenses, go for CCTV, just make sure the C-mount lens has manual iris/focus and covers 1 inch CCD. I would go for it, but I am very lucky to inherit almost full Cooke and Kinoptik collection. (building Angenieux collection now)
    Last edited by Photomorgana; 29th November 2009 at 17:30.

  12. #12
    Irwell
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Thanks, morgana, very informative and interesting

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post

    1. CCTV cameras generally only built to resolve 320x240 resolution (640x240 considered an HD, and even Megapixel cameras are not too demanding for lens quality) Low resolution is a must due to the storage constrains. Yes there are super resolution CCTV cameras that have been very recently introduced, but they have special lenses, C-mount lenses with manual iris and manual focus were not build for them.
    Your post is generally biased towards cine lenses but that statement is incorrect when it comes to the "system".

    It is better to keep in mind that we are dealing with a sensor and not film.

    One of the sharpest lenses I have in c-mount is a Navitron 75/1.3. I do not think this is ever sold as a "high resolution" lens.

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    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    All that said, if you can't afford Cine lenses, go for CCTV, just make sure the C-mount lens has manual iris/focus and covers 1 inch CCD. I would go for it, but I am very lucky to inherit almost full Cooke and Kinoptik collection. (building Angenieux collection now)
    There is a third, albeit expensive alternative, industrial and scientific CCD lenses with c-mounts. These are the only ones that actually guarantee you a specific resolution level, based on the camera's pixel size and count. Firms like Edmund Scientific in the U.S. sell them, some support sensors larger than 35mm size.

  15. #15
    Abbazz
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    I don't want to argue about qualities of CCTV vs Cinematographic lenses here


    Thank you for your post. Let's not forget that most C-mount cine lenses, while undoubtedly being of much higher optical quality than lenses made for those poor vidicon tubes, were designed for 16mm cameras, with a frame measuring 10.3 x 7.5mm and an image circle of 12.7mm. So image quality may not always be optimal right to the edge of a 4/3rds sensor measuring 17.3 x 13.0mm with an image circle of 21.6mm.

    Cheers!

    Abbazz

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Your post is generally biased towards cine lenses but that statement is incorrect when it comes to the "system".

    It is better to keep in mind that we are dealing with a sensor and not film.

    One of the sharpest lenses I have in c-mount is a Navitron 75/1.3. I do not think this is ever sold as a "high resolution" lens.

    I'm not hiding my bias towards cine lenses, just the same way I'm not hiding my excitement towards Leica, some Oly and Zeiss lenses. Please let me know what is incorrect in my post, its not clear to me what do you mean by dealing with sensor and not film.

    I have used Navitar 75/1.3 (pretty good lens indeed) But you have to remember that Navitar made Cine lenses in the 1960-80s (D.O. Industries old Navitar was formed by former Bausch & Lomb engineer, and thats top US Cine brand) I don't know for sure, but maybe Navitar 75mm f1.3 was not even a 100% CCTV lens. (is there a link that says that Navitar 75/1.3 is a purely CCTV lens?)
    thank you.

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abbazz View Post


    Thank you for your post. Let's not forget that most C-mount cine lenses, while undoubtedly being of much higher optical quality than lenses made for those poor vidicon tubes, were designed for 16mm cameras, with a frame measuring 10.3 x 7.5mm and an image circle of 12.7mm. So image quality may not always be optimal right to the edge of a 4/3rds sensor measuring 17.3 x 13.0mm with an image circle of 21.6mm.

    Cheers!

    Abbazz
    Exactly, and that is why we are coming to this forum to share out opinions on great lenses that work and do the job right.
    Not all Cine lenses will work great on m4/3 and not all CCTV lenses will suck either (especially those that were originally designed for cine use)
    Last edited by Photomorgana; 30th November 2009 at 11:14.

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    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    Amin, for the price of Xenon 25mm f0.95, I would rather get Angenieux 25/0.95 (just my honest opinion)
    Would appreciate if you could elaborate as to why you prefer Angenieux to Xenon. From what I have seen, the price of a used Angenieux in assuredly excellent functional quality approaches twice the price of a brand new Xenon from B&H.
    -Amin Sabet

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    Please let me know what is incorrect in my post, its not clear to me what do you mean by dealing with sensor and not film.

    I have used Navitar 75/1.3 (pretty good lens indeed) But you have to remember that Navitar made Cine lenses in the 1960-80s (D.O. Industries old Navitar was formed by former Bausch & Lomb engineer, and thats top US Cine brand) I don't know for sure, but maybe Navitar 75mm f1.3 was not even a 100% CCTV lens. (is there a link that says that Navitar 75/1.3 is a purely CCTV lens?)
    thank you.
    Somehow "cine" lenses are generally better is your conclusion. Despite me having specified the lens as a Navitron, you have to make a connection to "cine" lenses.

    There were "cine" lenses and then there were "cine" lenses, just as there are CCTV lenses and CCTV lenses.

    I have no qualms with your bias nor do the "cine" lenses interest me, especially for the current m4/3rds.

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    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Is Ebay the only source for C-mount lenses these days? If so, it is a bizarre market out there. It strikes me as extremely variable with regards to the amount of money people are willing to pay from one auction to the next for the same lens in largely unclear condition .

    Anyone know someplace to buy C-mount lenses from a reputable seller who will be assuredly clear about the lens condition? I understand that prices have gone up a lot, and I can live with that, but I won't pay $1500 for a "mintish" old lens found at an estate sale and being sold by someone who "don't know about camera lenses".
    Another source, in Toronto:

    Electronic Surplus Industries
    53 Sheffield Street,
    North York, ON M6M 3E5
    416-240-1950

    I picked up this from there. The Schneider


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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I have no qualms with your bias nor do the "cine" lenses interest me, especially for the current m4/3rds.
    So why are you even saying anything if Cine lenses are not of any interest to you. I love using them especially on m4/3

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Would appreciate if you could elaborate as to why you prefer Angenieux to Xenon. From what I have seen, the price of a used Angenieux in assuredly excellent functional quality approaches twice the price of a brand new Xenon from B&H.
    Amin,
    I have never used Xenon 25/0.95 lens before nor could I find any samples online. Based on the price I would assume its good quality lens, but here is why I would have gone with Angenieux.
    1. Proven cinematographic and photographic performance.
    2. I like my Xenon 50mm f0.95, but I like my Angenieux 50mm 0.95 a bit better, especially the bokeh.
    3. Price is about the same, ($1095 at B&H, you can have one of my Angenieux for the same money)
    4. Better resale value, if you decide to get rid of it in the future.
    5. Even in the best case scenario where Schneider 25mm CCTV lens uses the same glass as Schneider Cine lenses used to have, I would still go with Angenieux. I like Xenon, but I like S and P type Angeneiux better. (unless Xenon 25/0.95 is a super lens that much better than other Xenons)

    If money is tight I would go for Angeneiux 25/1.4 which is probably better lens if f1.4 is all you need. (and it doesn't need as much cropping)

    The thing is, as I was trying to explain before:
    for decades the requirement for CCTV lens manufacturer was to lower the prices at quality expense, while the requirement for Cine lenses was improve the quality at any cost. That is why lots of semi-pro still shoot with Cooke and Kinoptik modified to PL mount, and students use Cooke, Angenieux and Switars on Bolex. (never seen them reaching for cctv lens)

    Hope it make sense

    (disclaimer - all of my preferences are based on strictly visual parameters, no scientific calculations or pixel pipping is involved)

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    So why are you even saying anything if Cine lenses are not of any interest to you. I love using them especially on m4/3

    If you look at some of the past posts/discussions/debates you would realize that some start wondering if I sell or promote something over the other or some others say that a negative post devalues their possessions.

    On your conclusion based on CCTV lens sales- those were different cameras (no AA/IR cut filters) compared to the m4/3rds. That is what I said is incorrect.

    I do have Angenieuxs and others. In my use they certainly do not fare better than the Fujinons, Computars or the Navitron on the G1.

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    Senior Member apicius9's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    Hope it make sense

    (disclaimer - all of my preferences are based on strictly visual parameters, no scientific calculations or pixel pipping is involved)
    It does to me I would love to try the 50/0.95 Angenieux, but I may settle for a Nokton 50/1.5 down the road... To me it looks like the c-mount lens market has cooled off a little bit, prices are not as crazy as they used to be, except for a few prime pieces. Bad for me because I started selling off the ones I don't want to keep a bit late, but I'm not really complaining... The 20/1.7 has taken a lot of heat out of the c-mount market IMHO. Personally, I always felt like I missed the boat by not getting a Schneider Xenon 25mm when they were still affordable, but now I will eventually get the 20mm pancake and I'm sure I will be happy with it. I'm not even dreaming about the Switar 26/1.1, totally out of my price league these days. I sold a few 25mms that were really good and regret it a bit (Angenieux 25/0.95 B&H, the Angen. 25/1.4, the small 25mm Pentax etc) but I just couldn't afford keeping all of them and had bought them with the intention to only keep a few select ones. I am much more a user with an impulse control problem than a collector. I do not have enough experience with the CCTV lenses to really contribute much, but for me the fascination lies in the combination of the vintage glass and the new technology, and that just isn't the same with the 'modern' CCTV lenses. Of course, I still haven't modified my Computar 25/1.3, yet, maybe that will all change then

    That being said, as someone who does not have cases full of old glass around, c-mounts are an interesting field to get started in. I also think some of the longer c-mount cine lenses are still great deals and make very nice and comparatively small primes on the m4/3. For example, the Schneider Tele-Xenars go for very reasonable prices on ebay and they are excellent. I also like the longer Kern Yvars. Sometimes you also still find surprises, I have a 25mm Apollo TV lens that I got for a few $$ and that is not bad at all. Personally, I think I am in the process of overcoming my gear hoarding syndrome and hope I will find more time to take pictures in the future Just waiting for the 3 ordered ones to come in, ordering a pancake lens and then I'm done for a while, I hope. Of course, I need another bag also...

    Stefan

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    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Another Toronto source

    Good source for the high-end stuff, Angenieux, etc.


    International Camera Repair Limited
    (416) 255-3072
    816 The Queensway, Etobicoke, ON
    (800) 340-5937

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by apicius9 View Post
    It does to me I would love to try the 50/0.95 Angenieux, but I may settle for a Nokton 50/1.5 down the road... To me it looks like the c-mount lens market has cooled off a little bit, prices are not as crazy as they used to be, except for a few prime pieces. Bad for me because I started selling off the ones I don't want to keep a bit late, but I'm not really complaining... The 20/1.7 has taken a lot of heat out of the c-mount market IMHO. Personally, I always felt like I missed the boat by not getting a Schneider Xenon 25mm when they were still affordable, but now I will eventually get the 20mm pancake and I'm sure I will be happy with it. I'm not even dreaming about the Switar 26/1.1, totally out of my price league these days. I sold a few 25mms that were really good and regret it a bit (Angenieux 25/0.95 B&H, the Angen. 25/1.4, the small 25mm Pentax etc) but I just couldn't afford keeping all of them and had bought them with the intention to only keep a few select ones. I am much more a user with an impulse control problem than a collector. I do not have enough experience with the CCTV lenses to really contribute much, but for me the fascination lies in the combination of the vintage glass and the new technology, and that just isn't the same with the 'modern' CCTV lenses. Of course, I still haven't modified my Computar 25/1.3, yet, maybe that will all change then

    That being said, as someone who does not have cases full of old glass around, c-mounts are an interesting field to get started in. I also think some of the longer c-mount cine lenses are still great deals and make very nice and comparatively small primes on the m4/3. For example, the Schneider Tele-Xenars go for very reasonable prices on ebay and they are excellent. I also like the longer Kern Yvars. Sometimes you also still find surprises, I have a 25mm Apollo TV lens that I got for a few $$ and that is not bad at all. Personally, I think I am in the process of overcoming my gear hoarding syndrome and hope I will find more time to take pictures in the future Just waiting for the 3 ordered ones to come in, ordering a pancake lens and then I'm done for a while, I hope. Of course, I need another bag also...

    Stefan
    I agree the 20mm pancake took tons of pressure off the wide angle c-mounts. I could never find anything I could use under 25mm in c-mount anyway. I was looking for mint Cooke 18mm Arri mount, but now I don't even know if I will buy it, unless I find one really cheap. But in any case I will be buying 20mm pancake for sure as soon as my E-P2 arrives. Speaking of Nokton 50mm, its a great lens, sharp wide open, excellent performance, but I sold it and got Oly 42mm f1.2 instead (not as sharp wide open, but I love the feel of this lens) I like Oly lenses overall (Oly pen 65mm f1.5 is nice too a bit sharper wide open and sharper that 70/2) off the topic

    You are right, prices are cooling off, but only on certain lenses (zooms and consumer level lenses that were overpriced) With more and more m4/3 bodies are being sold every day, I don't anticipate the drop on most of c-mount and arri-mount prime lenses. Most of the lenses I have been watching on ebay have only been going up in past 6 month or so. I remember a while ago you could see the Elgeet, Schneider and others selling for the same price as Switar, Cooke and Angenieux. So something gotta give... when I saw Switars 75/1.9 going for $250 I knew its not going to last. Its just a natural selection, cine lenses are going thru an evolutionary stages once again, survival of the brightest. Please don't take me wrong, I have nothing against Wollensak, Schneider, Kodak ect, they are great lenses and some of them are excellent, however Cooke, Kinoptik, Switar are more of a Leica/Zeiss class. Some people choose to argue about it and say they don't care about such and such, and thats alright, not all people "believe" in Leica and pray to Zeus (i ment Zeiss)

    I need a new bag too, btw have you looked at Crampler, great product, I had one of their bags for many years and its very close to perfect. I will need a new bag for E-P2. (too bad there is no good photo stores in my area who would have their product on shelf to play with)

  27. #27
    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    Amin,
    I have never used Xenon 25/0.95 lens before nor could I find any samples online. Based on the price I would assume its good quality lens, but here is why I would have gone with Angenieux.
    1. Proven cinematographic and photographic performance.
    2. I like my Xenon 50mm f0.95, but I like my Angenieux 50mm 0.95 a bit better, especially the bokeh.
    3. Price is about the same, ($1095 at B&H, you can have one of my Angenieux for the same money)
    4. Better resale value, if you decide to get rid of it in the future.
    5. Even in the best case scenario where Schneider 25mm CCTV lens uses the same glass as Schneider Cine lenses used to have, I would still go with Angenieux. I like Xenon, but I like S and P type Angeneiux better. (unless Xenon 25/0.95 is a super lens that much better than other Xenons)

    If money is tight I would go for Angeneiux 25/1.4 which is probably better lens if f1.4 is all you need. (and it doesn't need as much cropping)

    The thing is, as I was trying to explain before:
    for decades the requirement for CCTV lens manufacturer was to lower the prices at quality expense, while the requirement for Cine lenses was improve the quality at any cost. That is why lots of semi-pro still shoot with Cooke and Kinoptik modified to PL mount, and students use Cooke, Angenieux and Switars on Bolex. (never seen them reaching for cctv lens)

    Hope it make sense

    (disclaimer - all of my preferences are based on strictly visual parameters, no scientific calculations or pixel pipping is involved)
    Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter! For now, I think I'll just maintain. I do lust after those superfast normals, but it's just not a practical purchase for me at this time.
    -Amin Sabet

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    Senior Member apicius9's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    I'm trying not to open the gates by getting more adapters, so I will probably pass on the Olympus lenses but I appreciate the recommendation. BTW, Amazon just told me the pancakes will ship earlier than expected, around Dec 10 for $399. Just in time for pictures under the tree

    I just landed in Taipei and hope to get a few shots taken tomorrow before my conference begins, took the kit lenses and the Summicron 50 and - to stay on topic - the Switar 75 and a Canon 12/1.5 for the night market. Too lat for that today, too much time cramping in undersized airplane seats, G'night,

    Stefan

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by apicius9 View Post

    I just landed in Taipei and hope to get a few shots taken tomorrow before my conference begins, took the kit lenses and the Summicron 50 and - to stay on topic - the Switar 75 and a Canon 12/1.5 for the night market. Too lat for that today, too much time cramping in undersized airplane seats, G'night,

    Stefan
    Enjoy your trip to TPE, its a paradise for street photography!

  30. #30
    Senior Member petermcwerner's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomorgana View Post
    Not all Cine lenses are great either (kern 25/1.4 in particular and most of older SOM Berthiot are not top notch in my opinion)
    Hi, I agree with your opinion on the Kern25/1.4. They made other lenses that are top on the g1, like the 26/1.1 Macro Switar and the 75mm/2.5 Yvar.

    I am very critical when it comes to C-mount lenses, but one of my favorites is the 20mm/1.5 SOM Berthiot. Some examples here
    Peter Werner
    Leica M8, R9+DMR & Digilux 2; Nikon D700; Panasonic FX01, FX150 & G1; Samsung TL350 (WB 2000)

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by petermcwerner View Post
    Hi, I agree with your opinion on the Kern25/1.4. They made other lenses that are top on the g1, like the 26/1.1 Macro Switar and the 75mm/2.5 Yvar.

    I am very critical when it comes to C-mount lenses, but one of my favorites is the 20mm/1.5 SOM Berthiot. Some examples here
    Nice samples and nice lens. I've never tried this one, but it is newer model. I don't like their old, pre-war lenses. (very low contrast)

  32. #32
    maxpiz
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abbazz View Post

    Thank you for your post. Let's not forget that most C-mount cine lenses, while undoubtedly being of much higher optical quality than lenses made for those poor vidicon tubes, were designed for 16mm cameras, with a frame measuring 10.3 x 7.5mm and an image circle of 12.7mm. So image quality may not always be optimal right to the edge of a 4/3rds sensor measuring 17.3 x 13.0mm with an image circle of 21.6mm.
    Cheers!
    Abbazz
    About this I'd like to know if I could have problems with this lens:

    http://http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220532241750&ssPageNam e=ADME:X:RTQE:1123

    I would use it on my wonderful new Lumix GF1!
    Thanks in advance

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    Senior Member kds315's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    It has no focusing and the image circle does not cover the sensor.

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    This lens is for 2/3 inch TV sensor/tube. That is in fact a 11mm diagonal sensor/image circle which is even less than regular 16mm film (12.7 diagonal.) 4/3 sensor is 21.63mm diagonal or twice of the 2/3 inch.

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by kds315 View Post
    It has no focusing and the image circle does not cover the sensor.
    With that small focal I think that the lack of focusing is not a problem. At few centimeters is all in focus.
    Yes, I think the circle of the image does not cover the sensor, but you think that there would be an obvious vignetting or something acceptable?
    Bye

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpiz View Post
    With that small focal I think that the lack of focusing is not a problem. At few centimeters is all in focus.
    Yes, I think the circle of the image does not cover the sensor, but you think that there would be an obvious vignetting or something acceptable?
    Bye
    11mm diameter image circle in a 22mm diagonal rectangle 4/3 frame--well, answer yourself if it's acceptable "vignetting" for your purposes.
    (the image circle illumination might be slightly larger than the 2/3 inch tube, something like 12-13 mm, still compare it to 22mm diagonal)

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by nugat View Post
    11mm diameter image circle in a 22mm diagonal rectangle 4/3 frame--well, answer yourself if it's acceptable "vignetting" for your purposes.
    (the image circle illumination might be slightly larger than the 2/3 inch tube, something like 12-13 mm, still compare it to 22mm diagonal)
    So, if I understood, the shots would all have a circle of half the picture frame?
    If so, no, it is not acceptable!
    Perhaps a 8mm lens might work better?
    Anyway thanks for the answers!
    Bye

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    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by apicius9 View Post
    I'm trying not to open the gates by getting more adapters, so I will probably pass on the Olympus lenses but I appreciate the recommendation. BTW, Amazon just told me the pancakes will ship earlier than expected, around Dec 10 for $399. Just in time for pictures under the tree

    I just landed in Taipei and hope to get a few shots taken tomorrow before my conference begins, took the kit lenses and the Summicron 50 and - to stay on topic - the Switar 75 and a Canon 12/1.5 for the night market. Too lat for that today, too much time cramping in undersized airplane seats, G'night,

    Stefan
    As a side note, Olympus lenses are somewhat overrated, thanks to all the Canon FF users snapping them up (the OM lenses). But by way of comparison, just as an example, a Canon FD mount 100mm f2.8 S.S.C. portrait lens is as good if not better than an Olympus OM 100mm f2.8 and you can buy the Canon for under $100 while the Olympus will run you (now) at least $200.00. Canon lenses were tarred by the brush that says their wide angle lenses are all poor.

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    RichA, the xenon 50 1:2 that you have shown in post #20 is a very fine lens. I tested it today vs. the summicron 50, and it is a better performer full open and at 5,6 center image and corners.

    Full image


    Summicron @ 2


    Xenon @ 2

    Summicron @ 5,6


    Xenon @ 5,6


    Regards

    Sergio
    Last edited by sergio lovisolo; 1st January 2010 at 08:21.

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Could you post a 100% crop of eg left-down corner please? TIA.

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by nugat View Post
    Could you post a 100% crop of eg left-down corner please? TIA.
    The two shots are slightly different, so I selected a point with detail slightly higher than the corner for two 100% crops at 5,6. Let me know if you need also F2.

    Xenon


    Summicron


    If you prefer exactly the corner, I'll repeat the shoot tomorrow morning. (just outside my window,so no problem.
    I am evaluating a number of C mounts that I happen to own.

    Regards.
    Sergio

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Thank you Sergio. I am trying to confirm wheteher Xenon can really be sharper than Summicron, allegedly the sharpest photo lens in the world. On the other hand cine 16mm glass like Schneider is known to have been of extreme sharpness (60 cycles/mm not uncomon). It would not be impossible for Schneider to be sharper in the center, however cine 16 lens on m43 have the known issue of losing resolution (and other artefacts) away from the center. From Summicron designed to cover a 43mm image circle, m43 takes only half that diameter. The Xenon on the other hand is designed to cover max 14.5 mm (in case of super 16) and has to stretch its image circle a lot. Not uncommon with a 50mm cine16 lens, but some loss of quality in the corners should (theoretically) be apparent.
    The way to check it is shoot both lens wide open and at 5.6, best on tripod (or real fast) and with focus bracketing. Then pick corners (more than 2/3 away from the center) on the diagonals for a 100% crop. Then we would know about resolution. Thanks again for your input.

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    So this time I went for a big brick wall in full sunlight. I can confirm that Xenon 50 is the sharpest up to the corners even at F2. ( have a complete series, but posting only two 100% upper right extreme corners, no sharpening except the standard ACR5.

    Summicron


    Xenon


    The summicron is slightly longer, perhaps 52mm.

    This evening I'll post crops from the full shoot.

    Regards.
    Sergio

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    wow! that's all I can say. Leica should not be happy. The sharpness difference is very visible.I am at loss for an explanation. The only thing that comes to my mind is that paradoxically the 50mm Xenon turns out to be tailored made for the 4/3 sensor too (image circle 22mm, frame 13.5x18mm). (Full telecentricity at the 50mm f-length?). On the other hand the Summicron having twice the image circle probably is built for a uniformly high delivery across the full frame (36x24mm). Say 50lp/mm for the Summicron and 60lp/mm for the Xenon could account for the difference. But that's pure speculation.
    Thanks again Sergio.
    PS. Will be looking for a copy myself now!
    PSPS. Any chance to do the same with a contemporary 4/3 glass, like Zuiko 50mm macro or even the kit 14-45mm zoom ?

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    I suspected the same thing, but that's not the case. The same shot with summicron at F2 on the M8 shows that it is soft on corners and gets sharp going towards the center. The summicron gets better stopping down, and is very sharp an the full frame at 5,6 while the xenon is good over the 4/3 format full open, and gets better but not to much stopping down.
    The 3 following 100% crops are cron with M8 at F2 from corner to center.

    Don't have a Zuico, but tomorrow will try with the Pana 14-45







    BTW the summicron is a new one 6 bit and was sent to Solms for a control,
    and reported fine.

    Regards.
    Sergio
    Last edited by sergio lovisolo; 2nd January 2010 at 06:23. Reason: wrong crops

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Quote Originally Posted by sergio lovisolo View Post
    The two shots are slightly different, so I selected a point with detail slightly higher than the corner for two 100% crops at 5,6. Let me know if you need also F2.

    Xenon


    Summicron


    If you prefer exactly the corner, I'll repeat the shoot tomorrow morning. (just outside my window,so no problem.
    I am evaluating a number of C mounts that I happen to own.

    Regards.
    Sergio
    Sergio, here I see more details in the Summicron image. The exposure is different, were the lenses also focused differently?

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Jonas, yes in this one the exposures were different for the passage of a cloud.
    Focus was manual with both lenses, with focus magnification, and I did my best but results are converging after many tests.
    At 5,6 the two lenses are so good that it is difficult to see a difference. But what is notable is that I have in front of me the 100% enlargement of the church made with the xenon 50 at F2 and at pixel level it is sharp corner to corner. A very very good little lens.
    I am now testing also the Xenon 25 1:0,95 that obviously shows a completely different character.

    Regards.
    Sergio

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    Thank you Sergio,
    Uncontrolled light is a pain when trying out lenses. So, you are testing the Schneider Xenon 25/0.95 ?! I hope you post some results here, showing both the image quality and how it covers the sensor.

    regards,
    /Jonas

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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    I found this in-depth review of the summicron which might explain partly the poorer performance at 2.0

    http://lenstip.com/205.1-Lens_review...roduction.html

  50. #50
    Senior Member apicius9's Avatar
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    Re: C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

    I didn't want to open a new thread for my quick question, so I took the first c-mount thread I could find, I hope you don't mind:

    I recently found this really nice small c-mount bellows with a Schneider 80/2.8 Xenotar in almost mint condition. Now, getting the bellows connected to the camera is a bit of an issue. If I screw it directly into the adapter, I can't get the adapter on the GH1 because the bellows bumps into the protruding front part. Fortunately, I have a few c-mount tubes, and with the 15mm it works. Since this is for macros anyway, I don't think the tube piece would have any adverse affect besides minimally increasing the distance between lens and sensorn- or would it?

    But, of course, the bellows is not in the right position once I attach it to the camera. I am also a bit worried about the extension tubes, they seem to be aluminum and 'grind' a little bit, I'm afraid I'll get small metal particles on the sensor. Now my thought is to sacrifice one c-mount adapter and glue it to the tube piece so that the bellows will sit correctly when I attach it. I could also use that combination with all my other c-mounts for macro shots, and I wouldn't have to modify the bellows in any way. Is there any other easy solution I am overlooking?

    Stefan

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