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Thread: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

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    GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    Hi all, and Merry Xmas, Happy New Year etc. I got myself a GF1 20 1.7 a couple days ago and it didn't take me long to find the 1/30 sec shutter speed problem in Auto ISO and Aperture Priority. I use that all the time on my D700

    Anyway, in an attempt to get Panasonic's attention about this, I started a couple of tongue and cheek threads in the 4/3 forum, over at DPreview, to stir up a little controversy. It was sort of like jumping into shark infested waters. Anyway, if anyone wants to go have some fun at my expense, feel free to rip on me over there or express your thoughts. I figure the more people that express themselves on this issue, the faster Panasonic is liable to put out a firmware fix.

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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    Is this a lens issue, or a GF1 issue?

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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by photoSmart42 View Post
    Is this a lens issue, or a GF1 issue?
    I believe it's a GF1 issue. Terry tried it with her 45 2.8 and had the same problem. I think the problem is that the camera uses the stated focal length of the lens, rather than the effective focal length, so for the 20 1.7 it sets the minimum shutter speed at 1/30 of a sec or even slower in some cases, rather then bump up the ISO. With the crop factor, the 20 mm is really like trying to hand hold a 40 mm at 1/30 of a sec. and in Terry's case, I think she said the camera was choosing 1/60 of a sec., when it should choose at least 1/90 of a sec. for the 90 mm effective focal length of the 45 mm lens. Combine this with the way in which these cameras are usually held for focusing (at arms length) and the problem is multiplied.

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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    (...)
    Anyway, in an attempt to get Panasonic's attention about this, I started a couple of tongue and cheek threads in the 4/3 forum, over at DPreview, to stir up a little controversy. It was sort of like jumping into shark infested waters. Anyway, if anyone wants to go have some fun at my expense, feel free to rip on me over there or express your thoughts. I figure the more people that express themselves on this issue, the faster Panasonic is liable to put out a firmware fix.
    A smiley looking like an angel doesn't help here.
    Starting threads (in plural) with PETITION and RECALL in the topic titles isn't what I call tongue and cheek threads. I found them puzzling as I don't see the legal claim as eceb close to PETITION worthy and the problem way smaller than anything demanding a RECALL.

    I'm sorry Clay, there are way better ways to ask for firmware updates.

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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    I believe it's a GF1 issue. Terry tried it with her 45 2.8 and had the same problem. I think the problem is that the camera uses the stated focal length of the lens, rather than the effective focal length, so for the 20 1.7 it sets the minimum shutter speed at 1/30 of a sec or even slower in some cases, rather then bump up the ISO. With the crop factor, the 20 mm is really like trying to hand hold a 40 mm at 1/30 of a sec. and in Terry's case, I think she said the camera was choosing 1/60 of a sec., when it should choose at least 1/90 of a sec. for the 90 mm effective focal length of the 45 mm lens. Combine this with the way in which these cameras are usually held for focusing (at arms length) and the problem is multiplied.
    Clay, as I mentioned last night the only time that it seems to have gone below 1/30 of a second is when you had the limit set to OFF.

    It is not just a GF1 issue. It impacts all the G's. The "problem" is new because the 20mm lens is so fast that the camera can keep the ISO below what we would be willing to shoot. On the slower lenses the ISO moves up much more rapidly because the lens needs more light.

    Now if I were using a 20mm lens on a full frame camera and cropping the resulting shot so that I was only using the center portion at exactly the same dimensions as the GF/G1 and GH1 what should the 1/focal length should be?

    I agree that a firmware update will make it better. I agree that the Nikon D700 implementation is outstanding. My Sony A900 doesn't have it and you don't see massive petitions to recall the Sony.

    Finally, give iISO (intelligent ISO a try). In that mode the camera will adjust the ISO based upon motion in the frame and it will allow for higher shutter speeds. I don't tend to use iISO so I can't comment on the accuracy but experimentation might help.

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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
    A smiley looking like an angel doesn't help here.
    Starting threads (in plural) with PETITION and RECALL in the topic titles isn't what I call tongue and cheek threads. I found them puzzling as I don't see the legal claim as eceb close to PETITION worthy and the problem way smaller than anything demanding a RECALL.

    I'm sorry Clay, there are way better ways to ask for firmware updates.
    Jonas, I get the feeling from what you wrote, that you would like to tell me to go stand in the corner and take a time out, for misbehaving. Some people sit around and wait for things to happen, others, roll up their sleeves and try to make things happen. Both are effective at different times.

    This auto ISO bug on the GF1 is the only thing keeping it from being a handy dandy little camera, in my opinion and I'm just trying to make a little racket to get Panasonic's attention, to get it fixed. If you know a better way, then have at it.

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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    At 9000+ photos with the G1, which behaves identically to the GF1 in this respect, with over 80% of those being made with Auto ISO, when I saw your tantrum on DPR I almost commented but stopped myself. "It's a waste of time to get involved with this kind of nonsense..." is what went through my head.

    Yes, the Lumix G Auto ISO function is less capable than the Auto ISO on your $2500 Nikon D700 body. Big deal. It works fine, for what it is, and with just a half a moment's thought when you're working in light that is on the verge of too little, you can switch to a manual ISO setting and relax.

    Complaining about it with RIDICULOUS demands for a 'recall' is childish and would prompt any professional reviewer from Panasonic to simply ignore you immediately, in my opinion.

    1/30 second for a 20mm lens on the G1/GF1/GH1 is a little long for hand held work, but I seem to be able to get razor crisp results at 1/30 second even with a 40mm lens most of the time. Of course, I have my camera set up so that when I see myself hitting my bottom limit of comfort at ISO 100, I turn the mode knob to my pre-configured custom settings which allow very quick access to ISO 400, 800 and 1600 without breaking my train of thought.

    It's a workaround, and it would be nice to have settable lower limit exposure time and/or ISO range, and if enough feature requests for that get to Panasonic through proper channels it would be nice to see them do it.

    But ranting and whining ain't a way to make friends and influence people.

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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    Jonas, I get the feeling from what you wrote, that you would like to tell me to go stand in the corner and take a time out, for misbehaving.
    You can take a rest or continue your proactive way. A day in the corner may be a good idea. Not for pointing at the problem but for the way you did it. From your replies here and over at DPR I get the impression you think your steps were brave and intelligent and likely to make Panasonic take immediate action. I on the other hand think the result will be the oppsite. Hard to prove, for any of us, though.

    Some people sit around and wait for things to happen, others, roll up their sleeves and try to make things happen. Both are effective at different times.
    Again, not if but how.

    This auto ISO bug on the GF1 is the only thing keeping it from being a handy dandy little camera, in my opinion and I'm just trying to make a little racket to get Panasonic's attention, to get it fixed. If you know a better way, then have at it.
    Your opinion on what a little racket is, along with your definition of "tongue and cheek", is not the same as most others, I dare to guess.

    Clay, do you truly believe the screamin' threads over at DPR including peoples reaction to them will help?

    The times I have felt the need of contacting a manufacturer I have written to them. Once I started a thread over at DPR asking Pentax to add the DNG format as an option for raw shooters. Yelling for a recall in a case where the camera actually works as the vague text in the manual describes is, in my opinion, not constructive but more of an insult.

    all in my, for the moment, humble opinion

    /Jonas

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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    Well, Godfrey, I hope you feel better after all of that. Isn't the Internet wonderful. You can insult and degrade anyone you like, just for the sake of trying to make you feel better about yourself. Feel free to use me anytime for someone to vent your frustrations on and I mean that sincerely.

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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    Moderator Warning
    Please stop the foolishness or the participants may very well be sent to the corner and asked to play nicely.

    Our policy is to grind gear all you want but to treat each other civilly.
    Please do that.

    We also prefer that posters here do not refer to posts made elsewhere. If it is important to say, we would like to see it here. we do not exist to promote other sites.

    OTOH, if that referenced thread had been posted here, it may very well have been locked or deleted.

    Hyperbole of that extreme nature rarely helps but rather inflames.

    My personal opinions of auto-iso technology will be reserved for a separate thread.
    thanks
    -bob
    Last edited by Bob; 26th December 2009 at 13:36.

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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    Keep in mind the minimum shutter speed required for non blurred images is not only a function of the focal length but the presence or absence of IS. I find that sometimes i have more problem with the 20mm than one of my zooms with IS. Mark

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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Moderator Warning
    Please stop the foolishness or the participants may very well be sent to the corner and asked to play nicely.

    Our policy is to grind gear all you want but to treat each other civilly.
    Please do that.


    -bob
    Yes, unlike with the hoards at DPreview, especially the micro 4/3rds Olympus people. On the original issue, a recall is usually warranted only for physical malfunctions or really bad firmware-induced problems. Unless the manual states something should happen that isn't happening, a recall is highly unlikely for such a problem.

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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    I use the 20mm lens (as well as the Olympus 17mm) with auto ISO for indoors family shots. I think I like what the camera makes. If it was an M8, I would go down to 1/15 or even longer.

    The thread is useful for asking more user settings like min shutter speed to the existing highest ISO setting, but the starting message complicates things. I think one can get more serious attention by a better tone usually.

    Seyhun
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    Re: GF1 Auto ISO Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by s.agar View Post
    I use the 20mm lens (as well as the Olympus 17mm) with auto ISO for indoors family shots. I think I like what the camera makes. If it was an M8, I would go down to 1/15 or even longer.

    The thread is useful for asking more user settings like min shutter speed to the existing highest ISO setting, but the starting message complicates things. I think one can get more serious attention by a better tone usually.

    Seyhun
    Most people can shoot at lower speeds than the rules would recommend. But you have to be acutely aware of doing this, otherwise you'll blur the shot. I think people want a "fire and forget" setting so they don't have to think about speeds and apertures. That kind of intelligence has not yet made it to cameras.

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