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Thread: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

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    EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    January "Shutterbug" has a review of EP2 with the claim that it betters out M8 in picture quality.
    "Quality" is so qualitative so I decided to check for myself at least resolution.
    I pulled out of my LR archive two pics:
    1. Green Landrover taken with X
    2. Red Pontiac (?) with Y
    Presented here side by side in A) full scene B) 100% crop not sharpened
    C) 100% crop sharpened with NIK Output Sharpener
    Can you tell which camera/lens in your opinion is "higher quality" (resolution) given
    those two different set ups (don't have them on the same subject alas...) ?
    The answer which camera is which below:



    ANSWER
    xM8+Summilux 35/1.4
    yEP1+Panasonic 20/1.7 (cropped to 3:2)
    Last edited by nugat; 26th January 2014 at 23:09.

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    Damn, that's close... too close for me to call.

    I love this illustration, from the dpreview of the Leica M9



    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    I would guess the second set of crops is the M8. They both look terrific though.

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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    I wouldn't trust jpegs for a comparison like this. Just my opinion.

  5. #5
    compositor20
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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    since i have made an order of the 20mm f1.7 for my ep-1 i really really want that the second batch of pictures is the one wit e-p1 and 20mm it has much better contrast and sharpness? could you get the raw posted too?


    there is a big differece in sharpness and that is probably the m-8 since it probably has a lighter AA filter even though it has too less megapixels


    even if my assumptions are wrong do you think that the 20mm is a very good lens in contrast ad sharpness?i think that the contrast makes more of a difference then sharpness

    a lens with more contrast means better dynamic range, worse or the same?

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    That's the thing with Leica glass. The contrast!
    Unmatched by anything....

    That's a great looking camera above....
    Beautiful..... The M looks good too....
    Shooter

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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    Please remember it is by no way a scientific comparison. Two archival pictures of two different subjects, taken at wildely different places of the globe in different seasons etc etc.. Both were at base ISO, fast (1/125-1/250) shutter and f2aperture (if I remember the summilux correctly). Both developed in LR2.6 from raws and sharpened for screen output in NIK Sharpener.
    This single example proves nothing of course, but I did take enough pictures on both platforms to be convinced that the EP1/20mmPanny combo is not far from M8/35lux. The Leica files are however more flexible in post and to me the summilux 35 low light capture and bokeh are more pleasing. Also there is something indeed like microcontrast of that glass that adds the inimitable quality.
    To those skeptical of web JPEG presentations here are once again the crops in tiff (over 10MB each). I don't think there are any significant differences from JPEGs, maybe somebody can find some though...
    Red car Olympus, green car Leica.
    PS. The summilux cannot be f2--to much sharpness in the background.
    Last edited by nugat; 6th January 2010 at 00:21.

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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    I made some mistakes in sharpening the Oly 100% crops above. As a result they looked a tad less sharp than Leica's. Now it's corrected and they seem comparably sharp. (This time JPEGs visually indistinguisable from tiffs, which I had to delete because of quota).
    It looks like Olympus files are as pliable for post (including sharpening) as Leica's then. Another positive surprise.
    Last edited by nugat; 26th January 2014 at 23:09.

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    Thanks so much for posting these samples - I love the E-P1 + 20mm f1.7 combination for IQ/compactness and flexibility...

    Here's a crop from the Oly raw file developed using Olympus Studio and sharpened using Lightzone - it's not as sharp in detail, but I really like the vibrance and colour using this workflow.



    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    The vibrance and color are exquisite indeed. Is it thanks to the olympus studio?
    Do you prefer OS over LR?
    Would Olympus Studio work as developer and then can one export the images to Lightroom? LR has the convenient plug-in NIK package with the output sharpener which especially on prints does wonders (not to mention Silver FX).
    Thanks again for looking into the files. I am a great fan of EP1/20mm too and believe it is up there with the Leica M8 as far as image goes.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    Yes, the colour signature is down to Olympus Studio (same as in-camera jpegs actually - which are well known for their quality) - and yes, you can develop at Contrast -2, Sharpening -2, Saturation -2 and export to 16 bit tiff for finishing in your PP application of choice.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Yes, the colour signature is down to Olympus Studio (same as in-camera jpegs actually - which are well known for their quality) - and yes, you can develop at Contrast -2, Sharpening -2, Saturation -2 and export to 16 bit tiff for finishing in your PP application of choice.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Do you have any experience with LR3 beta how it develops Olympus files?

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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    I made a complete comparison M8 vs G1 for an italian forum.
    Following are the resolution test results 35 summicron asph on the M8 and Pana 20 1,7 asph on the g1. at F2

    Resolution is better for the G1 by a not so small amount.

    M8 center


    G1 center


    M8 corner


    G1 corner


    the complete comparison is at this link
    http://www.leicapassion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16475

    but I think that a log in is required.

    Regards

    Sergio

  14. #14
    compositor20
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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    i think they are marvelous with the kit lens and lightroom beta 3 im anxious about the luminance reduction microdetail is very good and so is contrast and the colours are nt bad (although not so good as olymps studio)

    the chroma noise reduction is so much better in lightroom that i now only use lightroom beta 3 and there is much more detail in lightroom beta 3 compared with olymps studio (lightroom 2.6 isnt so good and doesent sharpen so well)

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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by sergio lovisolo View Post
    I made a complete comparison M8 vs G1 for an italian forum.

    Regards

    Sergio

    The charts show 10-15% more lp/mm for G1, right?
    What MTF for the figures?

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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by nugat View Post
    The charts show 10-15% more lp/mm for G1, right?
    What MTF for the figures?
    The chart shows lp/mm if the sensor used (or film) is 24x36. In this case we see the normalized resolution, or the ability of each camera to resolve details when framing the same subject (the complete pattern of targets in this image)
    G1 with 20 has 10-15 percent more resolution, as you noted. But the absolute resolution in lp/mm for the Pana is much higher than that.
    For this reason, and also for the fact that both lenses outresolve the respective sensor,this setup is unable to measure mtf.
    Considering that Leica chart for the summicron on M8 format full open shows MTF 40 with values 60% center and 20%corner, I guess, for the Pana, 70% center and 30% corner, as a minimun, considering the smaller sensor.

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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    I fogot to say that today I tested the Panasonic 20 vs the 35 summicron asph for flare and blooming, and while blooming resistance of the pana is much better, the summicron wins hand down for flare resistance

    Summicron


    Panasonic 20


    Sergio

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    It would be interesting to see how the 17mm f2.8 would have done for flare resistance there...

    Thanks for the post.

    Cheers

    Brian

  19. #19
    compositor20
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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    could you make another comparison with the e-p1 because i couldnt get which of the car pictures where from e-p1

    use raw in lightroom beta 3 with both and default sharpening
    pictures with detail and f4 on e-p1 20mm and f5.6 on the leica

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    Re: EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by compositor20 View Post
    could you make another comparison with the e-p1 because i couldnt get which of the car pictures where from e-p1

    use raw in lightroom beta 3 with both and default sharpening
    pictures with detail and f4 on e-p1 20mm and f5.6 on the leica
    Oly- RED
    Leica-GREEN

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