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The main flaws of all micro 4/3rds cameras

lcubed

New member
For video there are more missing features with the GH1:

- Support for external monitor
- Better Codec
- 30fps frame rate
- Better AF during vide- better control for sound
- built-in ND filter
- smother manual focus
all of the above, but real 24P support instead of the 60i wrapper for video
 

Jonas

Active member
(...)
on the issues of the perfect micro 4/3 ... the G1 in a weather sealed body is the perfect micro 4/4 camera.
I would like my next µ4/3 camera to be similar to the G1 as well. I wouldn't mind the EVF to be moved to the left but if they decide to keep the basic form that's fine with me as well.

But, there are several details I want Panasonic, or Olympus, or Fuji (or anyone else) to improve on compared to the G1:

1) Noise. The sensor is small and I guess we all have decided to live with the noise levels. I hope they improve. Above all I hope the blotchy ugly sort of noise in shadow areas will become more film-like (in lack of a better word)

2) A slightly bigger grip. It couldn't possible hurt anyone.

3) Another wheel, at the back of the camera. I don't like the current solution with one wheel doing several things at all

4) Move the front wheel. One can adopt, I know. But why not move it to the top of the grip instead?

5) The flash... please make the flash work with legacy lenses. The current situations is simply stupid.

6) Shorter synch time for flashes. The D70 was made several years ago and...

7) Shorter shutter times. There is nothing wrong with 1/8000.

8) ISO 50 and perhaps even ISO 25. Not for general use but it can be a godsend.

9) A one push manual focusing function. Thank you.

10) An option with 2x or 3x enlarged image when focusing manually. Sometimes 5x is a bit much

11) IBIS - provided it can be turned off, guaranteed to keep the sensor completely still

12) Tougher build, including weather sealing

13) IR remote

14) Improved AF if that is possible

15) Shorter viewfinder black-out between shots

16) A new menu system (similar to current Canon versions?)

17) Electronic level thingie, and an orientation sensor in body

18) One or two buttons totally customable (or similar solution)

19) HDR-function, JPG and raw in-camera and also a more customable bracketing function

20) Averaging function, JPG and raw in-camera

This would probably make the camera a bit bigger. I see no problem with that. Smaller options are available for those liking that.

I have already posted what I think about lenses. Not many liked those ideas. So, I guess these ideas will be rejected as well.

Feel free to post anything I forgot and everything I never came to think of, and that I am an idiot wishing for something nobody else wants to have.

Cheers,

/Jonas
 

jsnack

New member
I am surprised no one has mentioned the limited (sic) dynamic range of Panasonic's M4/3rds sensor, I find highlight headroom quite restrictive.
I agree. The dynamic range of the GF1 needs to be improved in future models.
 

manouch shirzad

Workshop & Subscriber Member
Hi Uwe, Nice to see you here
My experience is only with G1, I wish I had more control over Auto Bracket.
Right know in order to take 3 pictures, -2EV, Normal, +2EV, you have to take seven pictures and wait until all frames are transferred to the card

Manouch
 

ustein

Contributing Editor
Hi Uwe, Nice to see you here
My experience is only with G1, I wish I had more control over Auto Bracket.
Right know in order to take 3 pictures, -2EV, Normal, +2EV, you have to take seven pictures and wait until all frames are transferred to the card

Manouch
Yes bracketing is just silly on the G1/GH1.
 

Rawfa

Active member
My biggest complain is really dynamic range. There other stuff I'd like to have, but they are not as crucial as DR for the type of photos I do.
- Faster AF
- Full manual control over video (full HD 24fps with a high quality codec)
- A wider variety of lenses at more affordable prices
- I guess better high iso (even though I'm happy with the E-P1 regarding this point)
 

Jonas

Active member
Jonas, your list is quite coplete :).
I posted my wish list for video above.
I know nothing about video but I think you covered most of the suggestions I have seen at different places.

For still imaging my list may look long and it can give the reader the impression I think the G1 is a piece of crap. Now that is not the case. It is a long list but nearly all the listed improvements are minor and easy to implement suggestions.

The G1 materialized over a year ago and it has changed the way I use a camera, it works pretty well and I don't think I have seen another "first of its sort" as well thought out.

The worst flaw of all µ4/3 cameras is probably that we want more of everything; options, low-grade, high-grade, lenses, flashes, retailers, whatever that make a system a real system.
 

Cindy Flood

Super Moderator
I am super happy with the G1. I have had 3. Right now my blue G1 is at the service center. It has suffered from the covering coming off on the hinges. I believe there was a batch of cameras that had this problem. I also wore the paint off of the buttons on my first one, which was annoying.
While I like the way that the GF1 fits in my purse better, when I want to go out and shoot with micro 4/3, I grab the G1. My only wishes for the future model are the focus assist to be put on the wheel like the GF1 and OIS like the E-P1 would be a plus.
I happen to like the way the body looks. I could never understand why anyone thought it was ugly. I also have no problem with the OEM batteries. I have an extra in my bag, but rarely need it.
 

scho

Well-known member
I am super happy with the G1. I have had 3. Right now my blue G1 is at the service center. It has suffered from the covering coming off on the hinges. I believe there was a batch of cameras that had this problem. I also wore the paint off of the buttons on my first one, which was annoying.
While I like the way that the GF1 fits in my purse better, when I want to go out and shoot with micro 4/3, I grab the G1. My only wishes for the future model are the focus assist to be put on the wheel like the GF1 and OIS like the E-P1 would be a plus.
I happen to like the way the body looks. I could never understand why anyone thought it was ugly. I also have no problem with the OEM batteries. I have an extra in my bag, but rarely need it.
I agree Cindy. I really like the G1 for what it is. Good ergonomics (at least for me), excellent LCD, super EVF, and great kit lenses. It is not a wannabe RF or a full fledged DSLR - just the very capable G1. I also use a GF1, but mostly for casual walks and web stuff. Most of the printable shots come from the G1 and for the landscapes those taken with a tripod using the LCD (my favorite combo).
 
I am surprised no one has mentioned the limited (sic) dynamic range of Panasonic's M4/3rds sensor, I find highlight headroom quite restrictive. :mad:

tripper
Right on. If I could have only one upgrade for my G1 it would be two more stops of dynamic range.

Paul
 

RichA

New member
Another vote for G1 in the form factor it is already in. I suppose you could nip a few corners but I still want a big EVF, articulating LCD and grip.

Another minus for AA - I like lithium because it is low leakage and high energy density. No NiMH silliness please - heavier, bulkier and can't sit on the shelf.

I think one of the easiest fixes to the "problems" you outline would be a GH1+14-45 kit to supplant the G1. And for varieties sake it'd be nice to see G1/GH1 type body from Olympus.

Ken
I'm still using the G1 because I don't think the other offerings have improved on it in any way I care about. I don't do video. I would like a longer life battery, if it could be achieved without much size change, and I hate AA batteries in a camera. Nothing more annoying than fumbling with four AA cells.
 

RichA

New member
I would like my next µ4/3 camera to be similar to the G1 as well. I wouldn't mind the EVF to be moved to the left but if they decide to keep the basic form that's fine with me as well.

But, there are several details I want Panasonic, or Olympus, or Fuji (or anyone else) to improve on compared to the G1:

1) Noise. The sensor is small and I guess we all have decided to live with the noise levels. I hope they improve. Above all I hope the blotchy ugly sort of noise in shadow areas will become more film-like (in lack of a better word)

2) A slightly bigger grip. It couldn't possible hurt anyone.


/Jonas
How about to appease both groups, a detachable grip/bottom plate the way some SLRs used to have? Could have a larger battery holder, or not.
 

RichA

New member
I am surprised no one has mentioned the limited (sic) dynamic range of Panasonic's M4/3rds sensor, I find highlight headroom quite restrictive. :mad:

tripper
Honestly, it's not that bad. I shoot with it and a D300 and the difference isn't striking. I owned a Fuji S5. Now THAT camera had a wide DR!
 

Cindy Flood

Super Moderator
Honestly, it's not that bad. I shoot with it and a D300 and the difference isn't striking. I owned a Fuji S5. Now THAT camera had a wide DR!
I agree, Rich. I shot the G1/GF1 side by side with a Fuji S5 on a recent photo tour. The Fuji did have more DR, but the G1/GF1 held their own. I have the histogram down in the lower corner of my screen and check it before I click the shutter. I have very few shots ruined by blown highlights.
 

slau

New member
I have been using my G1/GH1 side-by-side with my 1DMk3 during my last few 5-7 day photo trips. As far as I am concerned, I did not notice any short coming from my G1/GH1 due to limited DR. I shot from wildlife to landscape on y trips. Btw, the G1/GH1 images printed very nicely too. I do wish that the G1/GH1 has the weather resistant body, better high ISO performance and AF speed/accuracy. I am actually very happy with the little Panasonic battery, considering its size and weight.

I am more than happy to use my G1/GH1 (instead of another 1 series body) as the back up to my Canon, and I always pack the Canon to M4/3 adapter with me too.
 

pellicle

New member
Hi

with respect to the dynamic range, I think that the camera does some cunning things with how it processes its JPGs internally, including how it meters.

When I first got my G1 I still had (and was using) a 10D (sold my 20D about a year before that, but that is another story).

At that time I had been doing some testing of RAW outputs using DCRAW because I wished to get away from any 'bias' which may be happening for me automagically using ACR in Photoshop (my normal conversion).

I was first surprised by the JPG's showing quite different results but realised that I was already using a method to photograph things which was designed to take into account the behavior of the 10D I had been examining before.

To cut a long story short if you go and peek at the DXOMark results from the G1 it doesn't do too badly.

Its a bit like 4WD's ... a mate has a Landrover and I have a Pajero. He has a bit more clearance and vehicle ability than me, but often he only gets his truck a bit further up the track than me before he has to start walking too.

So when the picture dynamic range going gets tough I turn to HDR ... personally if the lovely folk at Panasonic would make a sensor which (like the S5) had 2 sensor sensitivity's built in I'd leap on it. Mean time I'm stuck using HDR



I too would second and third the call for a better approach to HDR capture. The bracket function is so dismal I normally just use the front wheel do dial in my over and under values.

but for 90% of my photographs (well, at least in Finland) the range is usually quite enough...



we'll see how I feel back in Australia
 

Jonas

Active member
How about to appease both groups, a detachable grip/bottom plate the way some SLRs used to have? Could have a larger battery holder, or not.
I hear you and yes, some would like to have this:

21) A sturdy optional grip housing GPS and WiFi units and room for an extra battery. The grip needs to be tested and guaranteed to work with and without the extra battery for different needs (cold weather, weight saving, convenience) and also without adding RF noise

1b) (Noise) I was thinking of the G1 and forgot saying the GH1 banding problems should be fixed as well
 

Jonas

Active member
DR... The dynamic range is limited but so is everything. It isn't that bad today compared to many cameras with bigger sensors and that's why it isn't on my list.
I don't think it is reasonable to expect a 2 stop improvement. Half a stop at tops, maybe. If anyone can do significantly better it is Fuji but then I guess the resolution goes down.
 
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