My Ricoh GXR taste test...

[bradhusick]

I just got a chance to try the Ricoh GXR with the 50mm and zoom modules and the EVF in the luxury of my own home.

Within 5 minutes I put it down and will not pick it up again. Why?

- the autofocus is painfully slow and overshoots until settling in
- the viewfinder/screen freezes when focusing
- the viewfinder/screen freezes when taking a picture
- manual focus is "fly by wire" - there's no mechanical connection to the lens, just electronic despite having a focus ring
- the manual focus screen magnification is not high enough to tell if you're in focus

I didn't even bother putting an SD card into it. I don't care how good the IQ is, I would throw this thing to the ground in frustration before attempting to adjust to it's massive shortcomings.

It has one positive - the EVF is the highest res I have ever used.

IMHO this camera is dead-on-arrival. It simply sucks.

 

[matmcdermott]

Wow, tell us what you really think about it...

 

[kwalsh]

Thanks for your quick review, doesn't sound promising!

Two quick questions:

- You don't sound happy with the focus-by-wire. The m43 cameras actually focus-by-wire and do a wonderful job of it. I'm wondering if you have experience with them and find the GXR flawed in comparison or if you just hate the concept in general.

- Just how low is the MF magnification? 5x?

Thanks!

Ken

 

[bradhusick]

Yes, I have a Pana GH-1 and a GF-1 and they both manually focus very well. The Ricoh feels slow and unconnected and you end up overshooting badly in both directions when attempting to focus.

I think the magnification is 5x.

 

[simonclivehughes]

Personally, I find the Panny lenses a damn nuisance to focus manually. They need to change the algorithm so that faster turning will accelerate the focus process to get you into the ballpark, slowing down should give you the fine control. You have to turn the focus ring forever to do anything as it is, and it's never clear to me which way to turn, so you waste even more time.

Cheers,

 

[barjohn]

Bradhusick,

All of the things you identify as problems are true but it has grown on me despite its flaws. Some of these things can be fixed in firmware although I don't know whether Ricoh will fix them or not. I have fallen in love with the user interface and the image IQ. As a result I have decided to keep the Ricoh and sell my GF1 kit you can see it here (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?p=174600#post174600).

By the way, I don't think the MF magnification is 5X, I think it is more like 1.7X (comparing the magnified view to the photo review after taking the shot and magnifying it to the same size on screen)

Remove the AF issues and everything else about the camera is quick and using it for zone focusing is very good and fast.

 

[andrewteee]

Wow, John, that is a bold move selling the GF1! I too am falling for the GXR as I learn more about its capabilities, but I still plan to keep the E-P2 (and use it almost exclusively with the Panasonic 20/1.7). The GXR definitely has the Ricoh spirit and I love it.

Brad, the GXR (with the A12 unit) does have a few "beta" qualities, but I can guarantee you that there is magic in that sensor/lens combination. I, too, have been frustrated with it, but as I learn more about its character I'm enjoying it more and more. The Sigmas are more frustrating than the GXR and I have a lot more faith that Ricoh will improve the camera than Sigma will improve the DP series.

But I'm also a long-time Ricoh GRD shooter, a camera which is still perhaps my favorite even with its limitations. I know and like the Ricoh software and hardware UIs and the way the cameras handle. I may be more willing than many others to give the GXR/A12 a chance. I've had frustration with it, mostly around focus, but in the end I'm getting some magical results from it and for those pictures I'm willing to accept a few early adopter tradeoffs.

Still, I don't think your being fair to yourself by passing judgement so quickly. Since you have the camera there right now why don't you take it through a few more paces before returning it. Put a card in it and go for a few photo walks. You may not grow to like it, but at least you gave it a fair shot.

From what I can tell so far the GXR/A12 excels at macro and short distance subjects. (The fact that it is a macro lens contributes to some percentage of its focusing limitations. In this spirit it behaves a lot like my Olympus 50mm macro lens.) It does not have IS so you have to more carefully manage ISO and speed when handholding. The lens is very sharp, high ISO performance is very clean, and there is wide dynamic range. It renders beautiful B&W pictures. In fact, it made me realize how limited my 4/3, m4/3 cameras have been in dynamic range and B&W tonal range. If you know what a Foveon B&W image looks like then think of the GXR/A12 as along the same lines. The GXR/A12 is lighter and more comfortable to hold that the E-P2 (although I enjoy the handling of the E-P2 as well.

Between m4/3s, the GXR, Sigmas, Leica X1, upcoming Samsung NX and whatever appears on the camera horizon this year we certainly have it good! We can throw a selection of lightweight, very high quality camera gear into a small bag and capture all kinds of wonderful imagery. Good all around :thumbup:

 

[bradhusick]

It may be informative to this thread to let you know that I am a people and street shooter. The GXR may be good for still-life and landscapes, but it sucks at the things I take pictures of. I suppose if you have all day and the subject doesn't move, you might like the photos it takes.

 

[andrewteee]

Mitchall (on DPReview.com and elsewhere) has been working through using the GXR/A12 as a street camera. You can check out his comments in the Ricoh forum. He has been working with the snap focus mode, which works really well on the GRD3, but with the larger sensor a more limited depth of field of the A12 it gets more challenging to use.

Since the A12 is also a macro lens, and based on my experience with it, I don't believe it can be recommended as a street shooter. Perhaps if they release a wider, non-macro, potentially faster prime unit (with a large sensor) then it would be different. That's what I'm looking for in the future.

Your original post came across as really negative when in fact the camera did not work for your specific needs. That does not mean that the camera (or sensor/lens unit to be specific) sucks for everyone in all cases. I've heard that the A12 is aimed primarily at the Japanese market where macro is huge, and where Ricoh has a big following. Presumably, the GXR had to have a macro option to encourage early adopters. The GRD has always had it, the GX100/200 had it. It's part of being a Ricoh today. The A12 is not aimed at the street shooter and it should not be judged solely on that need.

The best street shooter I've experienced was my Zeiss Ikon ranegfinder. Talk about focusing issues

 

[barjohn]

Brad, I'm not sure what I would call myself but people shooting is what I prefer. When you set up the GXR for ZF (which is easy to do because you have both a distance and DOF scale) you can capture people shots very quickly and they are as sharp or sharper than the GF1 images in many cases. The reason for this is that as fast as the GF1 AF is, when people are moving (especially coming toward you) it can't quite keep up therefore even though it was in focus at the moment you start to take the image the DOF may be shallow and by the time your finger depresses the shutter and the image is taken the subjects have moved out of the plane of focus. With ZF you are prefocused on a plane a fixed distance from the camera with a known DOF and you snap the image just as the subjects are entering the focus plane. You have some latitude due to your DOF and you will wind up with more in focus subjects. The GF1 takes and average of 400 msec to focus and capture and image. With ZF you can shoot at around 150 msec which is more than twice as fast.

 

[andrewteee]

I just saw this post which may be informative and helpful.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1013&message=34253784

 

[bradhusick]

You can buy a Canon XSi with a 50mm f/1.8 AF lens for $499 brand new. That's 35% the price of the GXR/50 and twice the camera.

When I shoot with my Leica I shoot wide open and manually focus - quickly. Stopping down Leica lenses and zone focusing makes no sense to me.

The GXR fails totally at manual focusing and AF is no good, so it's still a loser for my needs. Don't get me wrong - I am not a Ricoh hater - just a GXR hater. If they release a new camera in the future that looks promising I will try it, but I can't shoot with a future camera. I suppose if you're a macro junkie, then go for it. My original post sounded negative because it was negative. Anybody considering this camera for needs similar to mine should know this. The Panasonic GF-1 with 20/1.7 is far superior for these uses. It's not even close.

John, if it works for you that's great - happy shooting. I am glad we have choices.

 

[barjohn]

It's kind of funny. The things you are complaining about here are even worse with the Leica X1 and yet the Leica fans are drooling to get there hands on it. It has very slow AF, really really slow playback, really slow write times and manual focusing is even more difficult and zone focusing is virtually impossible and it costs twice as much again. Of course it does have the red dot that make all photos it produces better than any other camera ever made.

As for the Canon XSI, I'm sure it is a great camera but I don't want an SLR for its size, weight and the way people react to them.

 

[bradhusick]

Yup. I canceled my X1 order for those reasons. Nobody has cracked the nut on really small, large sensor cameras yet. I have tried nearly all of them.

Have you ever tried a Canon Rebel with a 50mm f/1.8 lens or a 24mm f/2.8? It's pretty small and light and the lens is not that threatening. Try one sometime. It's still an SLR and it still has a 1.6x mag factor working against it, but it's really responsive!

If I need AF I am going to rely on the GF-1/GH-1 for now.

Cheers.

 

[barjohn]

Yes, I owned the Nikon D90. The D90 is a really responsive and great camera. I had one problem with it that I could not overcome. Every time I tried to take it out with my wife and I anywhere her immediate response was; "Do you have to bring that big thing with us?" When I would insist the problem became, OK where do I put this and all of the stuff that seems to go with it when we sit down to eat or try to do anything. With a small camera it is here, let me stick it in my purse so you can have it when you need it.

 

[Terry]

Not sure I would sell off the whole GF1 kit that quickly. I can't imagine you only using zone focus with this camera and not going crazy. The Ricoh UI is great and the lens sensor combo is supposed to be quite nice but until they work out some kinks it seems like something that would get exasperating to use.

 

[barjohn]

Terry, it is with great trepidation that I venture down this path. I seem to like torturing myself by being on the bleeding edge of technology. To some degree I am trusting what other Ricoh owners have said about the company and its ability to respond to issues such as the ones that have been identified by me and others. Actually, one of the factors is the smaller sensor zoom and its small size that I can put on the same body when all I want is a point and shoot to take to a casual affair and capture some memories with friends rather than serious shooting. With the S10 module on the camera it becomes a package about the size of the G11, but slightly thinner, and not quite as high but with better IQ (from what I have seen) and much better ergonomics and an EVF when I want or need one. Additionally, sooner or later (I hope sooner but probably later) they will introduce a wide angle pancake lens package with the APS-C sensor and it will probably be better in many ways, even to possibly having a better sensor. So it is a risk and I can't justify having two cameras around (well that isn't exactly true as I also have one of the waterproof P&Ss for use at the beach and underwater). Actually, I should have said relatively expensive cameras.

 

[retow]

I received my GXR with A12 module yesterday from Popflash. Body and lens are offered on ebay for some USD 1187 and bing.com allows to benefit from a 8% cash back, (i.e. net of about USD 1100, as a comparison to the X1price). I have no intentions to jump to a conclusion on the GXR, but I like what I see so far, all the warts aside barjohn has discussed in his posts. IQ seems stellar, but I'll know more after the weekend. UI is Ricoh at its best. If you use any of its GRD or GX cameras you won't read the manual.
I won't sell the EP2, which I consider excellent on its own. But I might consider letting the M8 go for the GXR. The latter could play the role of a digital CL, if the right lens modules will be available soon and firmware updates address some of the shortcomings.

 

[Vivek]

Brad, Thanks for your post! Simply one of the best (if not the best) I have read.

Up to the point with straight forward conclusions.

 

[retow]

Yes, I have a Pana GH-1 and a GF-1 and they both manually focus very well. The Ricoh feels slow and unconnected and you end up overshooting badly in both directions when attempting to focus.

I think the magnification is 5x.

That is interesting, I sold the GF1, because I considered mf a pain in the neck with it, and zone focusing ::cussing:. G1 or EP2 are much better for mf, with the Oly the winner in my book, because of IBIS. Zone focusing with any of the mft, not my cup of tea.