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Thread: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

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    Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Took a while getting here from Italy. As promised, here are some early results. These are horrible shots, but they (I hope) demonstrate the effects of the adapter with a 50 f1.8 and a 20 f3.5.

    The first two shots are next to a jinfinance nikon adapter. The purpose of the ruler is to show that this adapter is slightly shorter than the jinfinance one. This means that it is even further off the infinity mark for focus, so close focusing is compromised. The second of these shots gives a little idea of the delta in length.

    After those shots are three with the 50 and then three with the 20. In order, they are tilted down, not tilted, and tilted upwards. The thing I immediately noticed is the shift in the focal point while tilting. I left that in the images so it could be seen rather than readjusting to the same focal point. I wasn't expecting it, although I guess it makes sense.

    I am hoping to get out this weekend to do some real shooting (first non rain for quite a while this weekend).

    Doug









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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Nice find !

    Could you share where you got it from ?

    C U
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Doug, The shift in focus, I have mentioned it before, requires a shift mechanism to adjust.

    Also, you would find the 20mm (I find ~18mm near perfect) more useful for the m4/3rds while using movements.

    The going past infinity that you mention would come in handy while titlting.

    How much tilt does the adapter offer?

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Doug

    nice to see ... thanks for posting. I happen to disagree with the above assesment. My understanding of this is that it is caused by the tilt mechanism not being about the nodal point of the lens (as say on a camera which supports center tilt properly. The Canon TS-E series do this properly, as do many view cameras. That mechanism however works differently.

    I would be interested to know how well it works if you instead were to "fix" the lens and consider that the focal plane (eg the camera back) was tilting about the ball. This will require you to adjust the tripod (our mount the lens). This would effect more a rear tilt (rather than a lens tilt) which I think is closer to what that mechanism does (looking at where the ball pivot is).
    Last edited by pellicle; 23rd January 2010 at 02:44.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Doug

    nice to see ... thanks for posting. I happen to disagree with the above assesment. My understanding of this is that it is caused by the tilt mechanism not being about the nodal point of the lens (as say on a camera which supports center tilt properly. The Canon TS-E series do this properly, as do many view cameras. That mechanism however works differently.

    I would be interested to know how well it works if you instead were to "fix" the lens and consider that the focal plane (eg the camera back) was tilting about the ball. This will require you to adjust the tripod (our mount the lens). This would effect more a rear tilt (rather than a lens tilt) which I think is closer to what that mechanism does (looking at where the ball pivot is).
    I've posted a few pictures from this adapter using Pentax M42 lenses. Most of them are in the Photograph your Bokeh thread

    Keith

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    Re: M4/3 TILT adapters

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Could you share where you got it from ?
    Rafael, they talked about it in this thread:
    http://www.forums.getdpi.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=13093

    The guy's website with the corresponding article is here:
    http://www.adrianololli.com/articolo.asp?ID=3107

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Thanks, Michael, I completely missed that topic because I was in Russia for winter holidays at that time !

    Seems like a nice accessory, but almost as expensive as some second hand Nikkor glass on the evilbay ....

    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Doug, The shift in focus, I have mentioned it before, requires a shift mechanism to adjust.

    Also, you would find the 20mm (I find ~18mm near perfect) more useful for the m4/3rds while using movements.

    The going past infinity that you mention would come in handy while titlting.

    How much tilt does the adapter offer?
    Vivek,
    I must have missed that thread. Did you make your own adapter or buy one? Until this one showed up, I was seriously considering trying to cobble one together. Is the shift requirement normal for T/S lenses? Or something about how this adapter is working?

    I wish I had an 18mm to work with as I agree, but 20 is the widest I go on my nikkors (except for a 12-24 Tokina zoom, but that has no aperture ring).

    I also have a 24 f2.8 (one of my favorite on film, but not digital)
    a 28 f2 (a favorite but has CA which I imagine would be exacerbated by tilt)
    a 35 f2 (classic lens, might be fun to try)
    a 45 f2.8 (could be interesting)
    and the 50 f1.8 (worked better than I expected)

    I am also going to try the 20 with my k1 extension ring for some closeups.

    Doug

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Doug

    nice to see ... thanks for posting. I happen to disagree with the above assesment. My understanding of this is that it is caused by the tilt mechanism not being about the nodal point of the lens (as say on a camera which supports center tilt properly. The Canon TS-E series do this properly, as do many view cameras. That mechanism however works differently.

    I would be interested to know how well it works if you instead were to "fix" the lens and consider that the focal plane (eg the camera back) was tilting about the ball. This will require you to adjust the tripod (our mount the lens). This would effect more a rear tilt (rather than a lens tilt) which I think is closer to what that mechanism does (looking at where the ball pivot is).
    Not sure I could mount the lens as these are quite short lenses I am working with. I do have one extension ring that has a lens mount, but it would be > 1:1 even with my 50mm... And readjusting the tripod would seem to be a more hit or miss proposition. With my ballhead and the center post, I do have some flexibility to recompose, and I suspect I will just have to do that until I et the composition where I like... Which sounds a lot like standard shooting anyway .

    Not sure about the nodal point issue you mentioned although it makes a certain amount of intuitive sense. I should go back to my physics and figure out the optics I guess, just for fun... Real world, I suspect that the empirical method will get me where I want to go ...

    Doug

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Thanks, Michael, I completely missed that topic because I was in Russia for winter holidays at that time !

    Seems like a nice accessory, but almost as expensive as some second hand Nikkor glass on the evilbay ....

    C U,
    Rafael
    Rafael,
    I have never seen a tilt lens go for anywhere close to $215 which is what this coast me. Nikkors, never. I have seen some Canons modified to Nikon mount that I have seen hit ~$500. There are some Arsat or Hartblei that I have seen, but they were both heavy and seemed to be macro only. This gives infinity focus. And, with the nikkors I am using plus the adapter, the length of the overall "lens" is pretty much the same as my kit lens, so I am keeping it small. Plus, I can use my extension rings to get closeup tilts as well as without for landscapes.

    But, I would be curious what you saw on evilbay that you wree referring to.

    Thanks,

    Doug

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Doug, The shift in focus, I have mentioned it before, requires a shift mechanism to adjust.

    Also, you would find the 20mm (I find ~18mm near perfect) more useful for the m4/3rds while using movements.

    The going past infinity that you mention would come in handy while titlting.

    How much tilt does the adapter offer?
    Oops, missed the question.

    8 degree tilt, it looks like.

    And the going past infinity helping the tilt makes sense. Good point.

    Doug

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by greypilgrim View Post
    But, I would be curious what you saw on evilbay that you wree referring to.
    I wasn't referring to T/S Nikkors, Doug, just standard lenses.
    I just realised that I could do the T/S in macro setups using the mechanisms of my PB-4 bellows.


    C U,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Hi Doug

    Quote Originally Posted by greypilgrim View Post
    Not sure I could mount the lens as these are quite short lenses I am working with.
    sorry if my description was unclear, when I said:

    I would be interested to know how well it works if you instead were to "fix" the lens and consider that the focal plane (eg the camera back) was tilting about the ball.
    I was of course being figurative. I'll just delete the part in brackets

    So, "pretend" you are mounting the lens, but in reality keep the camera mounted on the tripod.

    By hand this is much easier, but the point is to hold the lens and pivot the camera on that ball. So say you're looking down at the ruler, instead of pulling the lens so that it falls down, you will first angle the camera back in the tripod as if you were looking up a little missing the ruler.

    Then you pull the lens down to bring the ruler back into view and focus.

    This is because the pivot is closer to the camera.

    You said you were using a 50mm lens, well more or less the middle of that lens is the nodal point, if you were using front tilt you would pivot around its axis. However that adapor is made like a lensbaby (which is a difficult design to work with as a photographer, but simple and cheap to make as an engineer).

    Essentially what you have is a mini view camera with very restricted movements (compared to a view camera, the camera body (and its sensor) is the back, and the lens is on the front.

    Look at your system all put together and you'll see what I mean that the pivot is much closer to the camera body than it is the middle of the lens ... right?

    So, give that a try and see if you get a different result?

    alternatively skip the tripod and hold the lens / adaptor in your hand, work off the rear screen and pivot the camera while holding the lens.

    because none of this system has been properly designed some resetting of focus may be needed ... this happens with view cameras which use base tilt (like mine).

    Mean time if you want to, try reading this page.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Hi Doug

    I was of course being figurative. I'll just delete the part in brackets
    Or perhaps I was being too literal . That would be the daytime engineer coming out...

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Hi Doug
    So, "pretend" you are mounting the lens, but in reality keep the camera mounted on the tripod.

    By hand this is much easier, but the point is to hold the lens and pivot the camera on that ball. So say you're looking down at the ruler, instead of pulling the lens so that it falls down, you will first angle the camera back in the tripod as if you were looking up a little missing the ruler.

    Then you pull the lens down to bring the ruler back into view and focus.

    This is because the pivot is closer to the camera.

    You said you were using a 50mm lens, well more or less the middle of that lens is the nodal point, if you were using front tilt you would pivot around its axis. However that adapor is made like a lensbaby (which is a difficult design to work with as a photographer, but simple and cheap to make as an engineer).

    Essentially what you have is a mini view camera with very restricted movements (compared to a view camera, the camera body (and its sensor) is the back, and the lens is on the front.

    Look at your system all put together and you'll see what I mean that the pivot is much closer to the camera body than it is the middle of the lens ... right?
    Makes sense intuitively. I will have to see how it plays out in real world situations to help me mentally connect the dots.

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Hi Doug
    So, give that a try and see if you get a different result?
    Definitely the plan

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Hi Doug
    alternatively skip the tripod and hold the lens / adaptor in your hand, work off the rear screen and pivot the camera while holding the lens.
    Planning to try both. There are definitely some specific shots I want to try that are not tripod possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Hi Doug
    Mean time if you want to, try reading this page.
    Been there already, have it bookmarked. Have to revisit after I have experienced it in the real world.

    Thanks for taking the time for a thorough, informative response.

    Much appreciated,

    Doug

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    I wasn't referring to T/S Nikkors, Doug, just standard lenses.
    I just realised that I could do the T/S in macro setups using the mechanisms of my PB-4 bellows.


    C U,
    Rafael
    Rafael,
    Ahh, that makes sense.

    The reason I bought the adapter was of course for getting a poor man's version of a tilt lens, something in all my years shooting I have never had the money to try out. Should be fun.

    Doug

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Doug, I look forward to your experiences with this adapter. I am sure you will find it enjoyable.

    Mine- there are a few- I have been using a self constructed 28mm T/S lens on Nikon (APS-C) for a few years now. Unfortunately, this did not work well for m4/3rds *for my purposes*.

    I have shown these samples (taken with a G1 and a 24mm T/S lens) a while ago:






    (handheld, shake. )

    During this travel, somewhere along the road, I found 18mm to be suitable for distant subjects (for macro, any FL would work) (yes, I am talking about street photography ).

    I also have a special (tiny) bellows that offers every movement possible in front and rear standards- converting the G1 into a mini view camera. This, of course, is for studio use. I also have a PB-4 but it offers less movements.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by greypilgrim View Post
    Rafael,
    Ahh, that makes sense.

    The reason I bought the adapter was of course for getting a poor man's version of a tilt lens, something in all my years shooting I have never had the money to try out. Should be fun.

    Doug
    Just reading this--having only a Canon 45 f/2.8 TS (and coveting the 17 and new 24 even now LOL), I've only used tilt with that (and shift) controlled by a knob moving it down or up by degrees--and then one can rotate the lens to move that 'wedge' of focus within the image

    example on the G1 with it rotated to about 45 deg I'm guessing and the focus 'wedge' area controlled by the aperture (f/2.8 here)


    or maybe more evident here where it was just rotated a bit off perpendicular again at f/2.8 on G1



    I think I would find it challenging to use tilt to increase the effect of deeper DOF (which is how I usually used the TS with my 5D) with a ball/socket as my Lensbaby (above were done more for selective focus) where I can control the amount of area in focus with aperture, but the ball socket doesn't give me the control to have focus from fore to selected subject--or within a determined area.

    This is the type of focus area I get with the LB/ball and socket.
    .

    I guess my question is---do you start out with your lens set horizontal and then gradually increase your tilt to increase your area of focus within the parameters you have decided??--or try to arrive at it more randomly. I'm trying to imagine using tilt for other than selective focus on a ball/socket.

    Diane

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Does this work the same as a tilt shift lense that they use for architecture? I.e. when they make the buildings lines more parallel? Cheers

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by kainekainekaine View Post
    Does this work the same as a tilt shift lense that they use for architecture? I.e. when they make the buildings lines more parallel? Cheers
    That requires the shift--where you focus horizontally and then move the lens up/down to correct the perspective. With that I use a grid screen to aid in making the correction.

    Diane

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    I guess my question is---do you start out with your lens set horizontal and then gradually increase your tilt to increase your area of focus within the parameters you have decided??
    Diane, Deliberate (time permitting- the key) (all old Nikon APS-C captures)

    28mm f/2.8



    28mm f/8 (portrait at f/8!!)



    28mm f/11 (close-up)- more than 8 deg tilt!



    PC Micro Nikkor 85/2.8 wide open.


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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Thanks Vivek. Deliberate--that's the key as you say--always when I'm using the TS. I know this is your own created tilt. So--how do you control it--have I missed a photo of the adaptor?. I mean do you use just your hands on the lens rotating on the adaptor (as I do with the Lensbaby) or a 'controller' like my knob on my Canon T/S? I'm guessing its more the former since I don't see that 'wedge' of focus I get with with the Canon (except it does sort of appear in the third one) but rather the 'area' of focus I get with the Lensbaby.

    LOL--I shouldn't even ask this as I know how deliberate and (for want of a better descriptive term) scientific you are about your lenses, etc.---but when you say '8 degrees' of tilt--how do you determine that?? On my Canon, there is a scale that I refer to on the side where my knob to control my tilt is so I know how much my tilt is--with the LB/ball and socket--I just know from experience with my TS that it doesn't take much tilt and I just move it gradually in the direction I want--but don't have a clue how much tilt I'm doing.

    Diane

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Diane, Many folks have asked about the contraption and I have not show it anywhere.

    As you know well, whatever goes into creating an image, the bottomline is what impact it creates on the viewer and the rest are- mere details.

    The degree of tilt is easy to determine (even when a scale isn't present). But, it is one mere detail.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Hi Diane

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Just reading this--having only a Canon 45 f/2.8 TS ...
    I guess my question is---do you start out with your lens set horizontal and then gradually increase your tilt to increase your area of focus within the parameters you have decided??--or try to arrive at it more randomly. I'm trying to imagine using tilt for other than selective focus on a ball/socket.

    Diane
    with my view camera I operate by being familiar with how things behave and understanding the theory (not 100% on either by the way, but I've been using this system and camera for about 7 years and quite a few exposures.

    For taking a photograph of the ground, where I want from my feet to infinity in focus, I know that my cameras base tilts (worth reading this) so I start with the foreground (at the bottom) in focus and pull the top of the camera film back towards me. Assuming you have the camera in landscape, it would be then pivoting the top of the camera towards you and the base of the camera away from you

    Now, if the foreground was in focus it will go a little out of focus on my system and I will need to tune focus of the plane overall.

    So its a little cut and try but I get it quite quickly with a two handed operation of tilting the back and

    If Jinfinance doesn't come up with one of these adaptors soon I'll have to by the one from Italy.

    Doug, I'm sure that this will also be excellent for your macro work too!

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Hi Diane



    with my view camera I operate by being familiar with how things behave and understanding the theory (not 100% on either by the way, but I've been using this system and camera for about 7 years and quite a few exposures.

    For taking a photograph of the ground, where I want from my feet to infinity in focus, I know that my cameras base tilts (worth reading this) so I start with the foreground (at the bottom) in focus and pull the top of the camera film back towards me. Assuming you have the camera in landscape, it would be then pivoting the top of the camera towards you and the base of the camera away from you

    Now, if the foreground was in focus it will go a little out of focus on my system and I will need to tune focus of the plane overall.

    So its a little cut and try but I get it quite quickly with a two handed operation of tilting the back and

    If Jinfinance doesn't come up with one of these adaptors soon I'll have to by the one from Italy.

    Doug, I'm sure that this will also be excellent for your macro work too!
    Thanks, I understand the use of a regular T/S lens and the theory as i've been shooting with one for a number of years with my Canons. I was more interested in how you would shoot similarly with this adaptor which is on ball/socket. The reason I ask that is because the LB is ball/socket and its a lot harder to control than my T/S for the results that I want.

    Diane

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Diane

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    I was more interested in how you would shoot similarly with this adaptor which is on ball/socket.
    understood ... re-reading my reply I'm wondering if I was too unclear ... and it was the lens-baby operation I was trying to describe.

    let me know if you want me to re-describe or clarify what I wrote.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Diane



    understood ... re-reading my reply I'm wondering if I was too unclear ... and it was the lens-baby operation I was trying to describe.

    let me know if you want me to re-describe or clarify what I wrote.
    Thanks--I reread and do understand what you are saying. Just having used the ball/socket I just find it quite a bit harder to do the 'pulling' without it veering to left or right. With my Canon TS, its very cut and dried---you simply tilt with the knob--and if you wish to direct the focus area in a different direction you rotate the lens. Control is much much easier though you have to be very precise and with my 5D (with a good FF OVF, but nothing as nice to check MF as the G1' EVF LOL) a rechecking of the parameters of focus--not fast. Of course if I'm using for selective focus I can do it much more quickly but not so easily for that very precise area of focus I want often using tilt and shift.

    I'd like one of these adaptors--even if they are harder to use (my assumption as I said LOL--using the ball/socket of the LB) since it would allow me to use some faster lenses that I like (28/f.20 for instance). AFAIK, there is no FD mount and I really would rather not start accumulating another set of lenses--as I'm also pretty happy with the FDs.

    I'll just keep watching this for any further developments. I need to find that link again and check the developer for what he has available.

    Edit: In looking at it again, I'm guessing he won't likely mfg. one for FD mount (since the adaptors for those are different)--so I may have to bite the bullet and find another mount in FL I prefer for this. Hopefully some others will buy one and I can get a better feel for them LOL--I watched the video again too--and am still interested as I think it would just be a matter of adapting to the ball/socket as I have with the LB Composer (which is more variable just due to its own idiosyncracies).

    Diane
    Last edited by Diane B; 24th January 2010 at 11:25.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    The reason I ask that is because the LB is ball/socket and its a lot harder to control than my T/S for the results that I want.

    Diane

    Diane, Please excuse me if this answer is out of place. My answer to that is- practice.

    There is a clear distinction between Doug's adapter plus a Nikon lens and the other contraption you mention. Doug's set up would have a real lens.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Diane, Please excuse me if this answer is out of place. My answer to that is- practice.

    There is a clear distinction between Doug's adapter plus a Nikon lens and the other contraption you mention. Doug's set up would have a real lens.
    Yes, got that Vivek LOL--that's why I'm interested.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Thanks--I reread and do understand what you are saying. Just having used the ball/socket I just find it quite a bit harder to do the 'pulling' without it veering to left or right. With my Canon TS, its very cut and dried---you simply tilt with the knob--and if you wish to direct the focus area in a different direction you rotate the lens. Control is much much easier though you have to be very precise and with my 5D (with a good FF OVF, but nothing as nice to check MF as the G1' EVF LOL) a rechecking of the parameters of focus--not fast. Of course if I'm using for selective focus I can do it much more quickly but not so easily for that very precise area of focus I want often using tilt and shift.

    I'd like one of these adaptors--even if they are harder to use (my assumption as I said LOL--using the ball/socket of the LB) since it would allow me to use some faster lenses that I like (28/f.20 for instance). AFAIK, there is no FD mount and I really would rather not start accumulating another set of lenses--as I'm also pretty happy with the FDs.

    I'll just keep watching this for any further developments. I need to find that link again and check the developer for what he has available.

    Edit: In looking at it again, I'm guessing he won't likely mfg. one for FD mount (since the adaptors for those are different)--so I may have to bite the bullet and find another mount in FL I prefer for this. Hopefully some others will buy one and I can get a better feel for them LOL--I watched the video again too--and am still interested as I think it would just be a matter of adapting to the ball/socket as I have with the LB Composer (which is more variable just due to its own idiosyncracies).

    Diane
    Hi Diane:

    I've been using this contraption for a couple of weeks with M42 lenses. I like the results ( as I said earlier in this thread, I have posted my impressions and images in the Bokeh thread - there are pictures of my setup there)

    It is similar to my Composer, but a little more difficult to use because the lenses put more weight forward. I do all of my stuff hand held, so I slacken off the clamp and move the lens to get the OOF that I like, then I focus, before tightening down. Works well for me. I have got some good responses to my images.

    I have communicated with the designer and told him that we would like to see a Canon FD mount - and I have pointed him to this site.

    Keith

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    Hi Diane:

    I've been using this contraption for a couple of weeks with M42 lenses. I like the results ( as I said earlier in this thread, I have posted my impressions and images in the Bokeh thread - there are pictures of my setup there)

    It is similar to my Composer, but a little more difficult to use because the lenses put more weight forward. I do all of my stuff hand held, so I slacken off the clamp and move the lens to get the OOF that I like, then I focus, before tightening down. Works well for me. I have got some good responses to my images.

    I have communicated with the designer and told him that we would like to see a Canon FD mount - and I have pointed him to this site.

    Keith
    Thanks Keith. I'll go back to that thread (which I follow--but not as much as the merged thread) and see. Also, thanks for the clarification vs. the Composer. I bet its more similar to when I put the WA converter on the Composer (I mostly shoot handheld also)--its very front heavy and I have to almost close it down (movement wise) in order to have any control over it. One of the reasons I'd like it would be to have easier control over aperture for one thing but also to have the FL I like and good lenses (though the Composer isn't bad for sharpness in the focused area) but they are two different looks IMO.

    As it is on the m4/3rds we're talking 100 mm and with the WA converter it is about 42mm but even a bit harder to use or focus selectively (though I do keep it on most of the time rather than use the native 50). I'd like very much to shoot with the 28/2.0 or 24 f/2.8 or even my 35 f/2.8 and get in the realm of FLs I prefer with more control over all.

    Hope he checks out our site (wonder if he reads English--or perhaps he'll translate). I did notice at the top of his tilt adaptor page he has Canon listed (about the only thing I can read LOL) but I don't find it anywhere else and I was wondering if it was for EF mount. I've been trying to figure out if there was a stackable 2 adaptor solution for my FDs, but don't think so with the lenses listed.

    Diane.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Thanks Keith. I'll go back to that thread (which I follow--but not as much as the merged thread) and see. Also, thanks for the clarification vs. the Composer. I bet its more similar to when I put the WA converter on the Composer (I mostly shoot handheld also)--its very front heavy and I have to almost close it down (movement wise) in order to have any control over it. One of the reasons I'd like it would be to have easier control over aperture for one thing but also to have the FL I like and good lenses (though the Composer isn't bad for sharpness in the focused area) but they are two different looks IMO.

    As it is on the m4/3rds we're talking 100 mm and with the WA converter it is about 42mm but even a bit harder to use or focus selectively (though I do keep it on most of the time rather than use the native 50). I'd like very much to shoot with the 28/2.0 or 24 f/2.8 or even my 35 f/2.8 and get in the realm of FLs I prefer with more control over all.

    Hope he checks out our site (wonder if he reads English--or perhaps he'll translate). I did notice at the top of his tilt adaptor page he has Canon listed (about the only thing I can read LOL) but I don't find it anywhere else and I was wondering if it was for EF mount. I've been trying to figure out if there was a stackable 2 adaptor solution for my FDs, but don't think so with the lenses listed.

    Diane.
    Hi Diane - he says that most of his site is now translated. And he is looking at our threads. I have had very good experience in this purchase. I am using M42 and the widest I can get now is with my Pentax 28/3.5. But, my first subjective impressions is that I like it more than my Composer. As I am very interested in bokeh, the Pentax lenses have given me the double-line bokeh, plus I can get the selective focus.

    Keith


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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Do you guys think it would be possible to make a tilt and shift version of this? For architecture. Cheers

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    I wonder also as the adapters are so large, if it would be possible to make a focal reducer in that space, so we could get full frame from our old lenses and maybe improved light performance. I love the interesting new possibilities coming from evil cameras.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by kainekainekaine View Post
    Do you guys think it would be possible to make a tilt and shift version of this? For architecture. Cheers
    I definitely do, some time last year I posted this.

    With some sample design ideas for manufacturers (such as jinfinance) showing that there was room in the mount to facilitate this:



    and offering a suggestion based on inverting an existing russian design:



    Note: the above example povides tilt and shift. There is plenty of image circle in 35mm lenses to facilitate this on a micro 4/3. Shift however is perhaps of less interest, although if one had one of those 8mm russian fish eye lenses one would indeed get good millage out of the shift. Given the greater depth of field given by the smaller sensor on 8mm @ f5.6 I feel that perhaps tilt would be unneeded on those lenses. Accordingly I feel that *(developing this logic) a tilt and **** adapter would be unnecessary and perhaps overly complex. A pair would be good enough. I say this as I rarely used tilt on my 24mm (though did from time to time) and rarely used shift on my 90mm.

    if I had access to machining equipment here I would have built one already (but I don't).

    The important part of my design is that it would more or less revolve the lens about its center point making focus easier. Of course this will not be true of every lens as telephoto lenses and retro focal wide angles have their nodal point in strange places.

    So a one size fits all won't be simple perhaps even possible.

    If you have time to examine the Canon TS-E series its worth noting the differing mechanisms for their implementations (24, 45 and 90), but I suspect they follow (as far as they can) the design concept created by Sinar in the P series which introduced asymmetric tilts to allow the photographer to tilt a plane about where they wish. The Canons tilt about the center of field of view.
    Last edited by pellicle; 24th January 2010 at 21:59.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Hi all, sorry for disappearing from the thread, but I actually got out to go shooting some Saturday between (and in) the rains...

    Yes, I got try try out my adapter.

    First a link to a rather wicked sunset shot I lucked into, hope you like it:

    http://web.me.com/greypilgrim/Photos...-23-10-158.jpg

    I'm going to cross post in the 45-200 thread, and would love some comments on the three I post there.

    Vivek, those shots of the bicyclist really catch me as well as the ones I assume are of your son...

    Diane,
    I've commented on yours before, but I still really like them , especially the cemetery one.


    Thoughts and results from playing with the adapter are in my next reply.

    Doug

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Okay, here I go:

    1) I've got a lot to learn with this adapter

    2) I actually managed to get my self into a situation where focusing more towards infinity brought physically closer objects into focus and focusing closer to in brought further objects into focus. And if that wasn't a mind blowing experience . I actually tried another lens just to make sure I wasn't going nuts . I've figured out what happened. It turns out that the closer objects were physically lower than the further objects, and I managed to tilt the lens enough between adapter and tripod that technically the closer objects horizontally were further away vertically.

    3) Diane, I think the experience of using this adapter on day one is similar to what you were describing to your Lensbaby experiences. trying to get the tilt properly aligned is an interesting challenge as it is easy to induce an off axis tilt as well.

    4) Pellicle, After spending some time really trying to slow down and trying to get some shots technically correct, I finally realized I needed to also follow your advice, get it off the tripod and just see what happened. I think I am going to have to go back and forth between the two approaches to finally get a handle on using it creatively.

    5) my general thoughts are that this is a fun addition to my tools, but to be really successful with it will take time, and you have to be really careful not to overdo it.

    Doug

    The first four shots are with tripod. The last two are handheld. All shot with my 20mm f3.5 except for the one with the two trees on the right.

    This one I was able to tilt just enough to get my plane of focus on the plane of the fern's leaves without losing the rock on the right and encompass the water in the background (shot at f8):



    And this one, I was able to pull the stick in without losing the background; I actually had some sideways tilt as well given where I had to set up my tripod:


    This one at first glance I though I had something, but if you look at the trees on the left, you can see how the plane of focus actually slices through the tree. It is more apparent and quite disconcerting at full size:


    And this was the one that totally drove me nuts and finally convinced me to go handheld for a while. Although difficult to see, it demonstrated the problem I was having. I jut could not get the lighter patch and the protruding knot further down the log into focus at the same time. In hindsight, I need to tilt LESS as I pretty much had the plane of focus parallel to the log, neatly slicing through the knot:


    Both of these handheld images demonstrate the "diorama effect", purely unintentionally. And they are more lensbaby'ish to my mind. I was simply trying to figure out how to get the knot on the lefthand fork of the trunk in focus . They look pretty gimmicky to me:



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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Doug

    well done. Looking at your shots (particularly)

    they have worked really well. I think you've done very well. Getting the hang of how this works and pre-visualizing it really does take time.

    if you haven't used a large format view-camera before then welcome to the world of focus control (rather than just focusing).

    A point to consider (although you've probably already read it) is that if you recall that the depth of field (before after) the focus point becomes wider (measured) as you focus on a point further away, then the "wedge" of tilted focus gets wider as it is further from the camera.

    So for example in this shot:

    by stopping down a little you'd have got more in focus as it goes further away.

    That can be seen somewhat in this image taken with a 180mm on a 4x5 camera (essentially a normal):


    I didn't want to go slower than f8 (which is about the same as f2 on a 50mm lens in 35mm land) as I was already at 45 seconds exposure. The plane of focus goes not quite along the mossy tree trunk but a little bit above it, because I wanted the entire height of that fern in focus but didn't want the distance background in focus.

    So, it looks to me that that adaptor is providing exactly the sorts of things I have been wanting out of the idea.

    I can't wait to get one

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Having control over the plane of focus is exactly what I want. I use a tilt shift for a variety of things--3 flat shot pano, shift to correct perspective, tilt to increase perception of DOF and selective focus--and combinations of those (particularly shift and then tilt--the new versions of the Canons allow tilt and shift to be done in same direction--with the older versions [like mine], you must reorient the lens to allow tilt and shift to be used in same direction--and I don't because generally the default orientation works best for me).

    With the G's, I really am more interested in the selective focus most of the time so the adaptor for the m4/3rds would be great.

    These were shot with 5D and EF 45 f/2.8 TSe but are examples of what I would want to do
    This is an f/13--increasing that wedge of focus Pellicle talks about above and it is wider at far end. I was standing in the middle of this sunflower field and used shift to correct the sunflowers perspective and used tilt (wide wedge) tilted toward left (plane) and then rotated a bit to follow the line of the flower rows. This would have been a lot easier with liveview LOL--and it was handheld.



    This was done at f/4.0 to keep the wedge narrow and the blurred area larger--focus wedge started in the foreground and extended just to the building itself.



    This was very narrow wedge of focus at /2.8 with the lens rotated so that is horizontal and rotated just enough, again, to follow the row of fungi.


    I just realized that these are all handheld--which I do a lot since many places don't allow a tripod---or I've found a shot where I'm not carrying a tripod.

    I've included another--one I don't think I would be able to shoot selective focus with the Lensbaby because I particularly wanted the wedge of focus to extend from fore in the lake including the reflection to include the 'house' (Biltmore in Asheville, NC--largest 'house' in US LOL) on the hill. f/6.3 handheld also



    Diane
    Last edited by Diane B; 25th January 2010 at 06:35. Reason: additional

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Diane

    the thing I loved about the TS-E series lenses is that you can actually do all this stuff hand held (unlike a view camera). After a little while I got quite quick with the TS-E and found them very nice to work with. I just love your sunflower shot. controls visual interest nicely keeping your eye flowing with the flowers but ignoring the background. This sort of thing is exactly what I want, not the stuff which seems to make large objects seem as if they were models.

    Sort of like I did in this:



    After using a view camera for some years, I find the lack of control of fixed lenses quite humdrum ... the only thing worse is the 'everything in focus' effect from wide lenses on the smaller formats (like 4/3 and less)

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Diane

    the thing I loved about the TS-E series lenses is that you can actually do all this stuff hand held (unlike a view camera). After a little while I got quite quick with the TS-E and found them very nice to work with. I just love your sunflower shot. controls visual interest nicely keeping your eye flowing with the flowers but ignoring the background. This sort of thing is exactly what I want, not the stuff which seems to make large objects seem as if they were models.

    Sort of like I did in this:



    After using a view camera for some years, I find the lack of control of fixed lenses quite humdrum ... the only thing worse is the 'everything in focus' effect from wide lenses on the smaller formats (like 4/3 and less)
    You and I are exactly on the same page. I just don't understand the techical part as well (I understand the Scheimpflug principle enough to apply it--or enough 'to be dangerous' as they say LOL)--the how--but not the why maybe???--not interested in making my own or in creating the things to do it with--I want something that I can BUY LOL--I'm challenged with mechanical things.

    I totally agree about the 'everything in focus' on smaller formats and that's something I'm having to learn to compromise with 4/3rds---its enough--but anything less I'm just not interested in. If I have the ability to change the plane of focus, then I'll be a happy camper.

    Diane

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    These are very technical aspects of photography.

    One reason why I like Jack/Guy workshop outfit.

    Things that need to be explained in person with real gear followed by lots of practice.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    I do think workshops are great but its also possible to learn about and use tools without that--and some aren't able to either afford the workshops or in a geographical location to take advantage of them. I honestly haven't seen a workshop dealing with this particular interest of mine in using this type of lens/technique.

    One doesn't need to be able to build a tool to understand how it works (though I'm grateful to those who do and can enlighten those of us who can't/don't). I also think there are some that are very interested in the technical part of photography gear and some less. I fall in the latter category probably (and I do think--and shudder at the possibility I'm stereotyping LOL--that women are less inclined to want to monkey around with the mechanical/technical parts of photography). I want the gear that will allow me to create the images I want--I need to understand how to use that gear in order to use it creatively--and agree with Vivek that practice is the key to using it. Without understanding what it does and how--you can't control the outcome. The first week I had my own TS (I rented the 24 TS first and determined that it was less useful to me for my first TS lens) I spent inordinate amounts of time just adjusting carefully the tilt, the aperture--learning what happened when I rotated the lens with these changes. I documented all of it and repeated things until I understood exactly what outcome to expect from what I did.

    There are some who like the randomness of certain tools/optics, etc. but using something like the original Lensbaby drove me to distraction. I do like the Lensbaby Composer where with careful shooting can control certain factors--but its a different look and I'd like both. I do like very much to work with changing the planes of focus to suit my previsualization while shooting--and I like having the benefit of liveview which makes it a lot easier to use handheld--and certainly on tripod.

    Diane

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    These are very technical aspects of photography.

    One reason why I like Jack/Guy workshop outfit.

    Things that need to be explained in person with real gear followed by lots of practice.
    Yah, wish I could afford them (or Thom Hogan's for that matter). Not that they are a good value....

    Doug

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    One doesn't need to be able to build a tool to understand how it works (though I'm grateful to those who do and can enlighten those of us who can't/don't). I also think there are some that are very interested in the technical part of photography gear and some less.

    I fall in the latter category probably (and I do think--and shudder at the possibility I'm stereotyping LOL--that women are less inclined to want to monkey around with the mechanical/technical parts of photography).
    I'm afraid I'll have to bust your stereotype a bit . And this may sound crazy from a person who's daytime job is an engineer, but photography is, and has been for years, my non technical pursuit. If I can understand it intuitively and by the results I achieve, I really don't care about the math...

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    I want the gear that will allow me to create the images I want--I need to understand how to use that gear in order to use it creatively--and agree with Vivek that practice is the key to using it. Without understanding what it does and how--you can't control the outcome. The first week I had my own TS (I rented the 24 TS first and determined that it was less useful to me for my first TS lens) I spent inordinate amounts of time just adjusting carefully the tilt, the aperture--learning what happened when I rotated the lens with these changes. I documented all of it and repeated things until I understood exactly what outcome to expect from what I did.

    There are some who like the randomness of certain tools/optics, etc. but using something like the original Lensbaby drove me to distraction. I do like the Lensbaby Composer where with careful shooting can control certain factors--but its a different look and I'd like both. I do like very much to work with changing the planes of focus to suit my previsualization while shooting--and I like having the benefit of liveview which makes it a lot easier to use handheld--and certainly on tripod.

    Diane
    I think I will get to like having this artistic tool available for use. It's going to take a lot of experimentation and then going back to see what worked and what didn't, lather-rinse-repeat...

    Doug

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    It's interesting that a number of you want to decrease the dof, while my immediate interest is to increase it. There are a number of shots like some "canyon" walls at Pinnacles where I want to get the entire wall in focus as I shoot along it (taking advantage of the wedge you mentioned above, Pellicle).

    The interesting thing to me is seeing the shots above and experimenting has made it clear that there will be other applications as well (and more fun) ...

    Doug

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    I do not want to underestimate anyone's desire or efforts but..

    Movements- best understood from a viewcamera. Yes, there are differences when it comes to set-ups like Doug's adapter but they are small compared to the fundamental principles involved.

    Jack's background as a practitioner of the viewcamera goes to the very roots.

    That is what I wanted to highlight.

    I am not aware of anyone else' workshops or their experience to comment on them.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Diane

    this is todays effort, it was with the 180mm on the 4x5 at about f8



    it might not appear obvious, but the foreground grasses are in focus, but the middle are not, yet the top part of the tree is. Based on my experiments with other lenses a 28mm lens on a 4/3 camera would be able to net the same as long as it was as able to open up to an aperture of about 15mm ... this would be somewhere in the f1.7 vicinity ... which is possible if you ask me

    PS ... yes, it was bloody cold
    Last edited by pellicle; 25th January 2010 at 11:31.

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    Diane

    this is todays effort, it was with the 180mm on the 4x5 at about f8

    it might not appear obvious, but the foreground grasses are in focus, but the middle are not, yet the top part of the tree is. Based on my experiments with other lenses a 28mm lens on a 4/3 camera would be able to net the same as long as it was as able to open up to an aperture of about 15mm ... this would be somewhere in the f1.7 vicinity ... which is possible if you ask me

    PS ... yes, it was bloody cold
    So, your "wedge" angles out from the near grass skimming over the tops of the middle grass and covers the trees (having gotten wider as it went)?

    So, while I was getting the adapter (originally) to be able to have all that in focus, this is a totally different way of using it. Fun.

    Thanks,

    Doug

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post

    . . . As it is on the m4/3rds we're talking 100 mm and with the WA converter it is about 42mm but even a bit harder to use or focus selectively (though I do keep it on most of the time rather than use the native 50). I'd like very much to shoot with the 28/2.0 or 24 f/2.8 or even my 35 f/2.8 and get in the realm of FLs I prefer with more control over all . . . . .


    Diane.
    Hi Diane - I have just ordered the Russian Zenitar 16mm/2.8 in M42 mount to see how it works with this tilt adapter.

    Keith

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    Re: Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    Hi Diane - I have just ordered the Russian Zenitar 16mm/2.8 in M42 mount to see how it works with this tilt adapter.

    Keith
    That would be a nice FL for me. I'll look forward to seeing what you think. Glad others are trying this and giving the rest of us a good idea of how it will work out.

    Diane

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