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Thread: Why not something like this, Olympus?

  1. #1
    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Why not something like this, Olympus?

    An old film (Advantix size) camera that sports most things modern digitals have, and is small. 25-100mm zoom that is smaller than my current G1's 14-45mm, albeit slower (f4.5-5.6). But a powered zoom. Even the AF is quite fast. Plus a nice, tall built-in flash. Even has selectable aspect ratios. So Olympus, whatever happened to the avant garde style you demonstrated with film cameras in the 1990s?


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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: Why not something like this, Olympus?

    probably they were discouraged by consumers flocking to SLR cameras like the EOS and those little Pinocchio zoom compacts (gakk, remember them?)

    but I guess this would be something like the Fuji



    it might suite quite a few people actually, but myself I want interchangable lenses if I'm going to have to lugg that thing around.

    did you see this one?

    x30 zoom is interesting, for some reason I've never seen anything (good) more than x10 in lenses for larger formats. The Canon 35-350 is a nice example. I've seen some results with a Tamron 18-270 and it looked quite dull


    naturally others milage may vary
    Last edited by pellicle; 13th February 2010 at 22:37.

  3. #3
    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Re: Why not something like this, Olympus?

    Quote Originally Posted by pellicle View Post
    probably they were discouraged by consumers flocking to SLR cameras like the EOS and those little Pinocchio zoom compacts (gakk, remember them?)

    but I guess this would be something like the Fuji



    it might suite quite a few people actually, but myself I want interchangable lenses if I'm going to have to lugg that thing around.

    did you see this one?

    x30 zoom is interesting, for some reason I've never seen anything (good) more than x10 in lenses for larger formats. The Canon 35-350 is a nice example. I've seen some results with a Tamron 18-270 and it looked quite dull


    naturally others milage may vary
    Too much asked of the lens, sensor WAY too small. 10:1 is the absolute limit for anything that supports a larger sensor.

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    Senior Member pellicle's Avatar
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    Re: Why not something like this, Olympus?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichA View Post
    Too much asked of the lens, sensor WAY too small. 10:1 is the absolute limit for anything that supports a larger sensor.
    oh, I agree. I thought that 2/3 sensors were really the limit, but we've shrunk even more.

    Thinking still of your initial question, I'm not such a fan of powered zooms although people do seem to somehow be confused without them these days, so perhaps theres more merit in there than I expect.

    Clearly I know nothing of consumer moods

    if you get a chance I'd like to see a side by side of your little oly up there with the G1 ... I was stunned how compact the 110 was against the G1 and I'd sure as hell love something as compact as that! I'd even be happy with next to nothing on the rear screen and have it all EVF. Looking around at the existing technology I don't see what's stopping us.

    I was in Japan when they introduced the really compact Casio EXiLIM series, where we are seeing all the guts of a digital camera in a package as compact as 88 x 57 x 17 mm weighing only about 120g with a lens! I have no doubt in my mind that a digital camera with a 4/3 sensor could be made in a package exactly as compact as the Pentax 110 with high quality interchangeable lenses.


    Circuit boards can be re positioned and batteries attached to the base (like the walkman style "chewing gum" package of AA spec battery).

    nope ... we're just not seeing what could be done with what we have right now.

  5. #5
    sphexx
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    Senior Member Tullio's Avatar
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    Re: Why not something like this, Olympus?

    I've come across some great, very exciting camera specs only to be disappointed by their "real life" performances. I think there is definitely a huge market for super zoom cameras (otherwise manufacturers would not be investing on them as they are). However, any one getting one of those must understand that there will be compromises along the way. No 30x zoom camera will come without some sort of IQ issue, no matter how good they are. Then there is the size and weight one has to deal with. I remember taking my Sony R1 (and only it) on a three-day trip to Disneyland. I almost had to have neck surgery to correct the problems caused by having such a heavy camera hanging around it for so long...LOL.
    Tullio

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    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Re: Sony Cyber-shot DSC-R1

    No, it's a hulk of a camera, a nice camera though.

  8. #8
    firefox23508
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    Re: Why not something like this, Olympus?

    I keep hoping that Canon will take the non-interchangeable lens route when they join the mirrorless large sensor camera clan, like the G11 but with a larger sensor. It would be nice to have a choice between carrying my G1 and lenses or a single point and shoot style but with a larger sensor than currently offered.

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    Senior Member RichA's Avatar
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    Sensor-lens design constraints are the problem

    Quote Originally Posted by firefox23508 View Post
    I keep hoping that Canon will take the non-interchangeable lens route when they join the mirrorless large sensor camera clan, like the G11 but with a larger sensor. It would be nice to have a choice between carrying my G1 and lenses or a single point and shoot style but with a larger sensor than currently offered.
    Something will have to be sacrificed because if you want a compact fixed lens P&S with a larger sensor, you run up against the problem of proximity of the lens to the sensor. With film, it was no problem, you could have the lens rear element within a couple mm's of the film plane, but with sensors, you can't. They haven't got the technology to design the micro lenses on the sensor to intercept and make the light path perpendicular enough so you don't end up sending photons in the walls of the sensor wells. A film grain can be hit at any angle, and it converts, sensor wells don't have that facility. So, you'd end up with a P&S with very poor edge image quality. However, how far could this be taken? With a fixed lens and single focal length, it should be possible to design a lens with a reasonably wide focal length that could be integrated into the body of the camera, like the Sigma DP2 or the 20mm f1.7 lens from Panasonic. My 25mm f1.4 Fuji CCTV lens elements only come out about 3/4" from the lens mount, though the body of the lens is considerably longer. Pentax has a 40mm f2.8 pancake lens that will cover an APS sized sensor and is very shallow, about 3/4" thick. Olympus's 35mm f3.5 macro lens has an element group that is only about 1/2" thick. The trick would be to make the focus motor wide instead of deep so the lens height could be kept small, or to move the focus motor closer to the sensor, out of the main body of the lens. Pentax 110 lenses were hyper small, but of course have no motors in them, or adjustable apertures, for that matter.
    My feeling would be to have a fixed lens camera, with a collapsible 3x zoom of reasonable speed, much like the old AF P&S film cameras. But I wouldn't expect G1 performance from the lenses, it simply would not be possible. An alternative (and it won't happen) would be to have a 2/3" sensor of 5-6 megapixels using modern sensor technology and processing. This would greatly ease design issues for making the camera compact and would maintain very good image quality.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Tullio's Avatar
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    Re: Sony Cyber-shot DSC-R1

    Quote Originally Posted by sphexx View Post
    Is this close to what you want?
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscr1/
    The R1 is probably one of the best cameras I've ever had. I've bought and sold many P&S and DSLR cameras over the past few years but I'll never sell my R1 despite is size and weight. Fixed lens cameras don't get much better than the R1.
    Tullio

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Sony Cyber-shot DSC-R1

    Quote Originally Posted by Tullio View Post
    The R1 is probably one of the best cameras I've ever had. I've bought and sold many P&S and DSLR cameras over the past few years but I'll never sell my R1 despite is size and weight. Fixed lens cameras don't get much better than the R1.
    Same here Bob

    The only thing is, starting my PAD project - I realise that I'm not going to realise my potential with a camera that bulky... I need a camera I can have with me all of the time, which ideally means the Pen form factor or smaller with fast, high quality prime lenses.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Why not something like this, Olympus?

    I have a Fujifilm Finepix S100fs, which is the initial version of this camera (although only a 20X zoom. I fine it pretty good for a lot of settings, although low light isn't oneof them. The 200 model apparently has better low light capabilities and the newest Fuji will be been more imposing. Obviously the capability will not be the same as my G-1, but in any outdoor situation it may well be a winner. It is pretty responsive and with jpegs one get take quite a number before the camera halts. I am happy I have it and when I go to hockey games in DC from the upper level, I usually just take this.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Tullio's Avatar
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    Re: Sony Cyber-shot DSC-R1

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    ...I realise that I'm not going to realise my potential with a camera that bulky...
    I hear you, Brian. The R1 size is the primary reason it's been sitting inside my camera chest for so long. However, when I need to take some pictures where IQ is crucial, out it comes!
    Tullio

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