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Thread: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

  1. #1
    ktraphagen
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    Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Thank you for your patience in advance. I've been reading through the forums, but some of the info in the threads I needed a bit more clarity (i.e. don't assume I can follow the lingo).

    I've got a mFT GF1. Years ago I used (and still have) a Canon AT-1 (and loved it). I still have the FD 50mm 1.8 lens. I've read that I can use that lens on my GF1 if I purchase a mFT-->Canon adapter ring like this one:
    http://www.amazon.com/Novoflex-Adapt.../dp/B002MXOISS

    But it is over $200... is that what I should expect?

    Second, I've read I can reverse this 50mm lens to do some macro shots. I also read I can reverse my mFT 20mm pancake lens to do macro. But I need reversing rings and maybe extension tubes? Or both?

    Can someone please help me figure out what adapters, reversing rings, and configurations I should try given the lenses I have?

    Looking forward to learning from all of you,
    Karyn

  2. #2
    grum
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Hi, that adapter seems very pricy to me. I use Canon FD lenses on my GF1 with an adapter bought on ebay from China/Hong Kong for around 20 and it works fine. Seeing as it is basically just a spacer/mount adapter I can't see what advantage a more expensive one would give you.

    I have also used it for macro using Canon FD extension tubes, again bought cheaply on ebay. I don't have one but the 50mm 3.5 is meant to be good for macro - I've seen some stunning examples.

    Don't know anything about reversing rings as I've never tried it.

    HTH

  3. #3
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    As far as reversing rings are concerned, there are a few options.

    a. There are two reversing rings that I know of which have the MFT mount on one end, and a male filter thread on the other end. One comes in 52mm, the other in 62mm.

    b. You'll be able to fit the FD 50/1.8 directly unto the 52mm filter thread reversed since that matches the filter thread on that lens.

    c. To fit the 20/1.7 reversed, you'll need some step-down adapter rings to go from 52mm to 46mm (I bought mine from cameragear.com). That will allow you to physically attach the lens reversed. In order to actually use it, you'll need to fix the aperture on the lens while it's normally attached to the camera, then use the preview button to do close the aperture to the desired setting. With the lens in preview mode, detach it from the camera, which will fix the aperture at that setting. Then you can reverse it.

    d. You can also stack your lenses if you wish. Fit the FD 50/1.8 using an FD-to-MFT adapter (as mentioned above), then attach a 52mm macro coupling ring (male-male thread) to the front of the 50/1.8 lens, then the 52-to-46 step-down adapter, then the 20/1.7 reversed full open. You'll adjust your aperture on the 50/1.8. Should get some nice magnification with that setup. Add FD macro extension tubes as you please on the camera-end of the 50/1.8.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  4. #4
    ktraphagen
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Thank you Grum and photoSmart42 for your help.

    I guess my shopping list then includes:
    Reversing Ring with mFt on one end and 52mm on the other
    Step-down adapter ring from 52mm to 46mm
    52mm macro coupling ring (male-male thread)

    Oh, and of course, the adapter for the Canon FD lens. Anyone have a suggestion for where to get that instead of the >$200 one I found on Amazon?

    What size extension tubes do I need to get?

    Thank you,
    Karyn

  5. #5
    duckrider
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Hello Karyn, where's Your location (country)?
    If US, here's an low invest example for adapting Canon FD:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-FD-Lens-Mi...item4cee95a24f
    and here a reverse adapter for 52mm thread:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/52mm-macro-rever...item2ea8bc0e26
    kind regards
    Thomas

  6. #6
    ktraphagen
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    I'm in NC, USA.

    Thank you for the links to the ebay adapter/reversing rings. My biggest question is why the huge price difference? Why is the one on Amazon over $200 and the one on eBay only $25?

    Thx

    Karyn

  7. #7
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Quote Originally Posted by ktraphagen View Post
    My biggest question is why the huge price difference? Why is the one on Amazon over $200 and the one on eBay only $25?
    Because the German and the Japanese manufacturers don't give a hoot about lowering their prices (labor costs a LOT more in those nations than in China and Vietnam where the cheap adapters are being manufactured), and because people still pay those higher prices for the expectation of higher quality. I've certainly had my fair share of issues with the cheap FD adapters, so there's something to the 'quality' issue.

    It's not a big enough reason not to try your luck with the $25 adapter first, and if that doesn't work then buy something else.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  8. #8
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Quote Originally Posted by ktraphagen View Post
    I guess my shopping list then includes:
    Reversing Ring with mFt on one end and 52mm on the other
    Step-down adapter ring from 52mm to 46mm
    52mm macro coupling ring (male-male thread)
    To clarify:

    To attach your FD 50/1.8 reversed to the camera directly:
    1. 52mm macro reverse adapter (i.e. this or this)

    To attach your Panasonic 20/1.7 reversed to the camera directly:
    1. 52mm macro reverse adapter (same as above)
    2. 46mm to 52mm step-up ring (52mm female to 46mm male) (i.e. this)

    To stack your 20/1.7 reversed at the end of your 50/1.8:
    1. Canon FD to MFT adapter (like the ones we discussed in the thread)
    2. 52mm macro reversing ring (male to male) (i.e. this)
    3. 46mm to 52mm step-up ring (52mm female to 46mm male; same as above)

    Hope this makes things easier to digest. It's not entirely obvious at first glance.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  9. #9
    ktraphagen
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Dragos,

    Thank you for the detailed instructions. That is very helpful! Thank you for taking the time to write that out for me.

    Karyn

  10. #10
    duckrider
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Hello Karyn,
    two things I forgot:

    You choose for the most complicatet way for the use of lens reverse:

    The 1,7/20mm will not be very useful in retro: The lens can't be stopped down, only maximum aperture will work. That will not really make sense.
    depth of focus is very small.
    (there are guys who stop down the lens in normal fixed postion and switch of the camera, kind of brutal use, I won't recommend).
    Have a try: Just take off Your lens and hold it by hand counterturned to Your cam. Enclosed a picture made this way, it shows lens rear cap "Lumix"
    Macro "for free".

    The 1,8/50mm Canon might be used in reverse mountig directly with the mft/52mm reverse adapter. But there's a cath on Canon FD lenses too: I'ts not easy to stop them down also You need to put a "Canon Macro hood" onto the rear side of the lens to stop it down. That ring is more or less a drilled out rear FD cap, shown on the second pic.

    ANY other lens in 52mm filter mount might be adapted easier, third picture shows a Micro-Nikkor, stopped down to f5,6 mounted on a GF1.

    Last picture shows the display with the Nikkor focussed to near positon, In the background You can see the mFT rear lenscover again, on the GF1 display the picture which could be made with this combo.

    As You can see the display detail made by the 20mm lens is very much smaller than the pic made with 55mm in reverse .

    Rule says: The shorter focal length of a reverse mounted lens, the bigger is magnification (with lesser depth of field range!)

    have fun
    Thomas (from the land with "high" labor costs, Germany)

    p.s.: Cheap Chinese adapter will do it's job, Novoflex adapter is more precise made, it's for some people the monetary difference worth.

  11. #11
    ktraphagen
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Thanks, Duckrider, for the additional info.

    I'm beginning to feel a little less confident about how to proceed. Some people encourage me to reverse the Canon FD 50mm 1.8 lens, others say not to.

    Let me reiterate what equipment I have and what I want to do.
    I own a GF1 and 3 lenses: 20 mm, 45-200, and 14-45.
    I own a Canon FD 50mm 1.8 lens from my old Canon AT-1
    I also own a film Canon EOS Rebel G with a 28-80mm lens

    I am under the impression that I shouldn't try reversing with the telephoto lenses.Is there any other use for the old 28-80mm on my GF1?

    What I want to do, is experiment with macrophotography. For now, I want to try to use the lenses I have. I am open to recommendations for other lenses too.

    I have ordered all but the 46mm-52mm step up ring (it was out of stock).

    One additional question. Do I need to put some kind of hood on the exposed end of the reversed lens? It seems rather, well, exposed.

    And what about setting the aperture. I thought it was ok to set it, then take off the lens and reverse it, but DuckRider is saying not to do that. What danger is there? Thx!

    Karyn

  12. #12
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Quote Originally Posted by ktraphagen View Post
    I'm beginning to feel a little less confident about how to proceed. Some people encourage me to reverse the Canon FD 50mm 1.8 lens, others say not to.
    I'm not sure anyone was discouraging you from using your FD 50/1.8 reversed. DuckRider was talking about having to lock the aperture lever in place in order to allow you the freedom to play with the lens aperture. You can get a dedicated macro hood for that (a bit pricey), or you can just lock that lever in place using a piece of plastic that you can pull out (which is basically what the macro hood does). Don't be afraid to experiment, especially with such a cheap lens.

    As far as reversing your zoom lens, there's no reason why you shouldn't or can't do it the same way you're reversing your other lenses. Not sure what sort if image quality you'll get from the reversed zoom, but why not try it? The caution is that these reversing adapters are made out of aluminum, which is a bit soft and can warp with a heavy lens hanging at the end of them. As with everything else, hold your camera system by the heaviest part, which in the case of the GF1 is usually the lens.

    Quote Originally Posted by ktraphagen View Post
    One additional question. Do I need to put some kind of hood on the exposed end of the reversed lens? It seems rather, well, exposed.
    It's a good idea to have something there, partly for protection, partly to minimize glare. I use a m4/3 lens cap that I hollowed out for my macro hood on the 20/1.7 reversed. You can do the same thing for your FD lens.

    Quote Originally Posted by ktraphagen View Post
    And what about setting the aperture. I thought it was ok to set it, then take off the lens and reverse it, but DuckRider is saying not to do that. What danger is there? Thx!
    Not sure what he was talking about on the dangers of setting the aperture. I can't see how setting the aperture and taking the lens off is any different than having the aperture set while the lens is normally on the camera in manual mode. I wouldn't keep it set for a long time, but if you're doing it for a macro session you should be fine.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  13. #13
    duckrider
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Sorry, I was not clear in my descrition:

    The aperture of the 20mm pancake is not downstoppable when the lens ain't mounted in normal direction on the camera. If You demount the lens aperture ist fully open. The aperture is operatet by electrical contacts between cam & lens, manually You cant change aperture.

    Second point referred to the 50mm Canon: If You take the lens from the body it normally stops down to f=5,6. Turning the aperture setting ring does not regulate the aperture. You need to unlock a litte pin, that's what the macro hood does.

    as already written:
    Just take off Your lens and hold it by hand counterturned to Your cam, it will work for testing!

    good luck
    Thomas

  14. #14
    ktraphagen
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Thanks, again, all for your help.

    One more (probably stupid) question. Isn't the 20mm a fixed aperture (in normal use)?

    Karyn

  15. #15
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Quote Originally Posted by ktraphagen View Post
    One more (probably stupid) question. Isn't the 20mm a fixed aperture (in normal use)?
    No, it's a fixed focal length. The aperture is adjustable electronically from 1.7 on up.

    For macro work, adjusting the aperture a lot isn't a huge issue. You'll want to determine your aperture setting based on the DOF you want to achieve, based on the diffraction effects you want to avoid, and based on the available light. In a lot of situations you'll end up staying with that aperture setting for a given subject. In that situation, setting the aperture on the 20/1.7 once while on the camera, then taking the lens off with the aperture fixed is not a big deal. It would be problematic in the field where you do end up changing aperture more frequently because of the variety of subjects you encounter, but reversed lenses don't make for very good field macro lenses to begin with because of their very short working distances.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  16. #16
    ktraphagen
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    PhotoSmart,

    Very helpful. Thank you so much. Learning a lot from all the generous expertise on this forum.

    Karyn

  17. #17
    ktraphagen
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    OK, some of the rings have arrived and I'm trying to set up this (from above):
    To stack your 20/1.7 reversed at the end of your 50/1.8:
    1. Canon FD to MFT adapter (like the ones we discussed in the thread)
    2. 52mm macro reversing ring (male to male) (i.e. this)
    3. 46mm to 52mm step-up ring (52mm female to 46mm male; same as above)

    But I don't seem to have the right ring to attach to the front of the FD50/1.8.

    Going from the other end, I've got the Panasonic 20mm/1.7 reversed, on the end to connect to the 50mm lens I have the 46mm to 52mm ring directly attached to the normal "front" of the lens, then the 52mm macro reversing ring attaches to that. But the other male end of the 52mm reversing ring doesn't fit the "front" of the FD 50mm lens.

    What am I doing wrong or misunderstanding? Thanks!
    Karyn

  18. #18
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Quote Originally Posted by ktraphagen View Post
    OK, some of the rings have arrived and I'm trying to set up this (from above):
    To stack your 20/1.7 reversed at the end of your 50/1.8:
    1. Canon FD to MFT adapter (like the ones we discussed in the thread)
    2. 52mm macro reversing ring (male to male) (i.e. this)
    3. 46mm to 52mm step-up ring (52mm female to 46mm male; same as above)

    But I don't seem to have the right ring to attach to the front of the FD50/1.8.
    That would be the 52mm macro reversing ring (male-to-male). So basically you screw that into your 50/1.8's filter thread, so you're changing the filter thread from female to male so you can attach the female step-up ring at the other end.

    Quote Originally Posted by ktraphagen View Post
    Going from the other end, I've got the Panasonic 20mm/1.7 reversed, on the end to connect to the 50mm lens I have the 46mm to 52mm ring directly attached to the normal "front" of the lens, then the 52mm macro reversing ring attaches to that. But the other male end of the 52mm reversing ring doesn't fit the "front" of the FD 50mm lens.

    What am I doing wrong or misunderstanding? Thanks!
    Karyn
    Not sure. According to the specs on the 50/1.8 (link), it should take 52mm filters, so all the rings you purchased should work. Does your 50/1.8 look like the one pictured in the link?

    Your setup should be as follows:

    GF1 -> m4/3-to-FD adapter -> 50/1.8 -> male-male 52mm reversing ring -> female 52mm to male 46mm step-up adapter -> 20/1.7 reversed lens
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  19. #19
    ktraphagen
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    The 52mm reversing ring just drops in and out of the FD50mm lens threads. Weird. Everything else fits as you note (and as I expected)... except this! Is it possible that it is another size? How would I measure?
    I'm attaching a photo (just iPhone image) of the lens with a ruler beside it.


    I'm not sure how these things are measured, but this appears larger than a 52mm thread size. What do you think?

  20. #20
    ktraphagen
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    OK, I grabbed a different filter from my old camera. It's a 55mm polarizing lens and it fits the FD 50mm 1:1.8

    So, I guess I need a 55mm to 52mm (male to male) ring? Is that right?

  21. #21
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    Re: Newbie GF1 adapter/reversing rings question

    Quote Originally Posted by ktraphagen View Post
    OK, I grabbed a different filter from my old camera. It's a 55mm polarizing lens and it fits the FD 50mm 1:1.8

    So, I guess I need a 55mm to 52mm (male to male) ring? Is that right?
    Weird. The specs are wrong on that lens then. You'll need to get a 55-to-52 step-up adapter in that case (55 male to 52 female), then you'll use the 52 macro reversing ring from there.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

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