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Thread: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    If the light leaving the rear lens element is nearly exactly orthogonal, then why would it be difficult or impossible to achieve with an interchangeable lens? couldn't you just move the lens forward?
    The whole point of the R1/Zeiss lens design is to put the rear-most elements of the lens as close to the sensor as possible for the best collimation of the light path. You cannot get this close with an interchangeable lens mount and focal plane shutter, for several reasons having to do with mechanical clearances required for removing/replacing the lens as well as practical considerations like potential for handling damage to the rear-projecting portions of the lens assembly when off the camera.

    Minox did a similar thing with the 5-element Complan lens in the Minox cameras made in the early 1950s: they put the rear most element directly in contact with the film in order to provide maximum correction and a stable film plane location. Those were amongst the best resolving Minox cameras of all, but they ran into inescapable scratching problems due to the film's motion across the lens and most of the cameras were retro-fitted with an alternative four-element design eliminating the rear element, with a small reduction in resolution as a result.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Believe it or not, there actually is an OVF available for the 16mm lens.
    It must attach via the flash unit's socket, eh? Another completely non-standard item... unusable in any other context.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post

    Minox did a similar thing with the 5-element Complan lens in the Minox cameras made in the early 1950s: they put the rear most element directly in contact with the film in order to provide maximum correction and a stable film plane location. Those were amongst the best resolving Minox cameras of all, but they ran into inescapable scratching problems due to the film's motion across the lens and most of the cameras were retro-fitted with an alternative four-element design eliminating the rear element, with a small reduction in resolution as a result.

    You got it completely wrong and the reason why Complan was better than the later Minox lens was the exact opposite.

    The Complan did not have corrections (distortions) for the edges as the later Minox lenses did and instead the film plane itself was curved in the earlier Minoxes to achieve maximum sharpness.

    The R1's lens is zoom. There are fewer or no problems to make zooms (even very wide one) that are nearly telecentric (even the flimsy Oly-D 14-42). The design requirements for a prime with such qualities are different and would make them rather expensive and bulky.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Those are the images I've seen... poor lens quality.

    If you see anything decent, I'd appreciate any links

    Cheers

    Brian
    DPR now has a production camera and has posted some samples. Not "decent", but corner performance looks bad in some images.
    http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/re...review-samples
    Carl
    Gallery

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    It must attach via the flash unit's socket, eh? Another completely non-standard item... unusable in any other context.
    The m4/3 cameras also have non-standard data ports on top, AFAIK. ie. you can't switch EVFs between the two, right? The only difference is that they use a hotshoe to attach the item, whereas the NEX accessories attach to the port itself (probably not much room for a hotshoe on top of those tiny NEX cameras.)

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    You got it completely wrong and the reason why Complan was better than the later Minox lens was the exact opposite.

    The Complan did not have corrections (distortions) for the edges as the later Minox lenses did and instead the film plane itself was curved in the earlier Minoxes to achieve maximum sharpness.
    I didn't say anything about the film plane being flat. I said the film plane was stable and the light was collimated to the surface. Yes, the surface was curved ... that's irrelevant.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Let me put it to you more directly. Longer back focal length and telecentricity are directly related.

    Your idea of shorter back focal length means more telecentric is totally wrong.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Let me put it to you more directly. Longer back focal length and telecentricity are directly related.

    Your idea of shorter back focal length means more telecentric is totally wrong.
    I said nothing of "telecentric" either. Back focal length ...the distance from the vertex of the last optical surface of the lens system to the rear focal point ... has nothing to do with what I said either.

    The Sony R1/Zeiss lens is designed to collimate the light paths as orthogonally as possible to the sensor plane, which happens to be flat, and the rear elements of the lens approach the sensor plane very closely as a consequence of that design and the fact that the lens is a fixed, embedded part of the camera: the lens did not have to be designed for an interchangeable mount. That is the point of what I was saying.

    That was the same concept in the Minox 5-element Complan design, except the surface they were collimating the light paths to be orthogonal to is curved instead of flat. The rear element served the double purpose of collimating the light and holding the film plane in a fixed position to maximize performance.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Godfrey, What you defined (which isn't the case with Complan/Minox at all and that has no connection to digital photography or Sony R1) was telecentricity.

    [Minox was all about miniaturization. If they made the Complan a bit flatter field, that would have gotten out of the body because more corrective elements would have come in to play and hence would have defeated the purpose. Hence a Tessar (tad less sharp but with a flatter field) replaced the Complan]

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    You've missed the point of what I was saying entirely, which was that some solutions which work from a theoretical perspective are impractical in use:

    - The Sony R1 lens could approach the sensor plane very closely as a part of its design for a fixed lens camera which is an impractical design for an interchangeable lens camera.
    - The Minox 5-element design did a great job performance-wise but was impractical for reason of dust and scratching problems.

    I was not discussing telecentricity at all.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    I did not miss your point that is why I pointed out it to be wrong.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Vivek, any guesses on how 35mm M lenses might perform on the NEX as a standard lens? Do you think we'll be safe from problems on the edges?

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Vivek,

    You miss the point entirely, but I'm not wasting time trying to educate you any longer.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    when I got into micro four thirds I was looking for a small complimentary system to my D3 covering 35, 85 and 180mm at fast apertures. Micro four thirds has allowed small lenses but I think APS-C is a better size sensor for me. I won't be moving from my EP2 though as physical buttons, viewfinder and optical stabilisation are all important.

    When someone brings out a camera the size of the EP2 with just as many physical buttons/dials, built in EVF and better ISO performance then I will move. Competition is good but the Sony is not there yet for me.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Vivek,

    You miss the point entirely, but I'm not wasting time trying to educate you any longer.
    Oh, thank you!

    I am educated correctly.

    Only now I remember a thread on p.net where you were coming up with the same stuff. Get your facts right for goodness sake!

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Vivek, any guesses on how 35mm M lenses might perform on the NEX as a standard lens? Do you think we'll be safe from problems on the edges?
    Douglas, It would not be any different than how they perform on an Epson R-D1s (I used to have one but traded that in for a spectrometer), although, with higher pixel density and all that, it is difficult to make a prediction.

    I will check how my few LTM/M mount lenses do on the NX10 and report back.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Ah, you are able to mount M lenses on your Samsung? Cool.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Vivek,

    You miss the point entirely, but I'm not wasting time trying to educate you any longer.
    Doesn't matter. Part of your argument concerned difficulties with close lens-sensor planes and mechanical considerations which of course was not true.
    You can easily have a bayonet mount and position a lens to touch a sensor, if need be.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Oh, thank you!

    I am educated correctly.

    Only now I remember a thread on p.net where you were coming up with the same stuff. Get your facts right for goodness sake!
    I doubt that.

    I recall several threads on p.net where you are just as adamantly obnoxious as you're being now, refusing to see the point of others' statements there too.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by RichA View Post
    Doesn't matter. Part of your argument concerned difficulties with close lens-sensor planes and mechanical considerations which of course was not true.
    You can easily have a bayonet mount and position a lens to touch a sensor, if need be.
    Only if you want it to be broken frequently. There's a shutter in the way, or had you forgotten that?

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    I think this Sony Camera has the personality of a "concrete block"

    Photographers want personality, as defined by looks, weight, size, and of course, performance. A Leica has a really nice personality, so does the Oly E-P2 and the Pano G series - and the Canon S90.

    A camera that uses an LCD to compose the shot can only be used consistently in a very few parts of the world - or elsewhere, when the weather is right. We all know that, but I'm surprised that few people acknowledge it.

    Micro 4/3 now has traction. I have two cameras, five native lenses, and a gazillion legacy lenses (by legacy I mean manual lenses from the distant past, from a large variety of manufacturers) and the adapters to serve them. I'm not going to switch to this Sony system. Why would I buy it in addition to my m4/3 stuff - no reason at all. There are lots of alternatives for small cameras with APS sensors, that don't force you into the "system" way of thinking.

    In terms of IQ, the difference between APS and m4/3 is for the pixel peepers.

    I am just waiting for someone like Pentax to put their stamp on the m4/3 success, to give me some more choice.

    Keith

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    I can see it for Sony shooters though as a little backup to tuck in like I do my GF1 with my 5D (though that isn't even as reasonable as I rarely use same lenses on both of my cameras, the Canon EF and the m4/3rds)--sometimes the EF 45 TS or maybe the 90 f/2.8 macro, though I can as long as I have an EF body to change aperture--but its still nice to have a backup that takes virtually no room.

    Diane

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    I think this Sony Camera has the personality of a "concrete block"

    Keith
    I have enjoyed a lot of comments throughout this thread and thought the discussion certainly had some good point's being made and counter points that followed . . . . .

    The comment above by Keith summed it up best for me, "I think this Sony Camera has the personality of a "concrete block"."

    . . . . . after looking at the pictures of the camera on DPReview my impression is that the camera is just plain ugly.

    This is JMHO and do not wish to offend anyone. Just another choice, like the cars we drive, or the people we choose to share our lives with. What works for some just turns others off.

    If the Sony camera is what floats your boat then I will look forward to seeing you out there on the street using it.

    Life is Grand!

    Dan
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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    if this nex with m mount lens performs better then my e-pl1 i am pretty sure i am buying one. its that simple for me
    NEX and some manual glass

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Amongst other things I dislike about the NEX cameras, aside from the lens problem and control ergonomics which look hopeless to me for any serious shooting, is the complete lack of any eye level viewfinder, standard accessory shoe or flash connection.

    I could see one of these with the flip-out screen and ultra-zoom lens as a waist-level only camera, but why I'd spend the money for that when I have other cameras that are just as good at it while being more versatile is a question I can't answer yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Believe it or not, there actually is an OVF available for the 16mm lens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    It must attach via the flash unit's socket, eh? Another completely non-standard item... unusable in any other context.
    I was pleasantly surprised by the NEX-5's tilt-out screen, APS-C sensor, and 18mm flange distance -- enough to seriously consider buying one. My favorite camera of all time was a Hasselblad 500 C/M with a waist-level finder -- an NEX-5 on a tripod could be used (like Panasonic's G1/G2/GH cams) in a similar way.

    But as soon as I read about the ergonomic problems associated with its primarily menu-driven interface and then realized one could only use the dinky accessory flash, I immediately lost interest.

    Hopefully, the NEX-7 or NEX-9 will have better manual controls and the ability to connect off-camera flash units. If there is a flash shoe I desire, no doubt it will use Sony's proprietary contacts, but there are adapters to get around that problem.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    One thing is for sure the camera manufacturers producing EVIL cameras are not standing still. Panasonic, Olympus, Samsung, Ricoh and Sony have products in planning that will resolve some of the issues raised and are intent on improving the cameras so we will part with our hard earned money and buy. The next version from Sony may have an EVF and a hot shoe and improved ergonomics. The next small EVIL cameras from Panasonic and Olympus may have have improved sensors, and EVF and be smaller and lighter. Samsung may enhance its EVIL camera. Ricoh is adding lens and maybe that will catch on. Competition is great for innovation and pricing.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Ah, you are able to mount M lenses on your Samsung? Cool.
    No, the M mount can not go inside the NX10 mount. While the LTM lenses can be seated inside the mount.

    CV-15/4.5 will not achieve infinity. Only close focus distances (~40cm). Already, the C-V 15/4.5 is considered as not a "regular" Leica design lens.

    40/2 Rokkor and 50/0.95 (M-mount) appear to give very very sharp projections, albeit at close focus distances.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by RichA View Post
    Doesn't matter. Part of your argument concerned difficulties with close lens-sensor planes and mechanical considerations which of course was not true.
    You can easily have a bayonet mount and position a lens to touch a sensor, if need be.
    Rich, Weird a$$ arguments based on incorrect thinking leads to such proclamations. Looking up some basic texts would be helpful.

    I use several lenses on the G1 which almost hit the baffle. Are they projecting the light perpendicular to the sensor plane on axis? Yes, as all lenses do. What happens to the off axis rays is another question.

    I have used the C-V 15/4.5 (among others) on Nikon DSLRs using a relay system I built. This system allows me to use such lenses from infinity to closer distances. That is a telecentric set-up as well.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    I need Jono Slack to get his hands on one

    Cheers

    Brian
    Sorry Brian!
    I looked at those shiny silver lenses, and thought . . . . MUST HAVE ONE. Then I thought about it a bit more:

    1. menus for everything - even mode selection
    2. the body is tiny - but the lenses are bigger than m4/3
    3. no in body stabilisation (so good for M lenses on EP2)
    4. pancake lens 24mm (lovely but not JUST 24mm) :sleep006:
    5. no EVF (not that I love them, but useful, yes)

    So, it isn't really smaller, it won't be so easy to use - early evidence suggests that the lenses aren't as good as the panasonic or Oly.

    Personally, I don't want a larger sensor - I've got FF if I want limited depth of field, the lovely thing about m4/3 is that it's a perfect compromise between dof and dof (especially for macro).

    The only obvious advantage is better high ISO - and personally I'd rather use an M9 with a fast lens in low light.

    So, interesting and cute as it definitely is, I won't be leaping out to get one!

    all the best

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    I'm not too surprised Jono, but do you still have your A900? won't your Sony dealer loan you one?

    Actually, don't bother - I've just looked at the samples on dpreview and the IQ is mediocre at best.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Last edited by Brian Mosley; 13th May 2010 at 03:55.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    I agree with Jono.

    This is the "memory stick" of cameras. Needlessly different and incompatible.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    And you prove once again that you completely miss the point.
    Keep on going.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Jesus, Godfrey and Vivek! Give it up and have a beer! Go take some photos.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    I really don't want to have to lock down Or delete posts in the thread. Godfrey and Vivek, please contunue the argument through PMs and then you can post resolution.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    I'm not too surprised Jono, but do you still have your A900? won't your Sony dealer loan you one?

    Actually, don't bother - I've just looked at the samples on dpreview and the IQ is mediocre at best.

    Cheers

    Brian
    HI Brian
    I do still have the A900 - and still love it, a file from the A900 with Zeiss glass is a thing of wonder and beauty. I'm also sure that I could borrow a NEX for a bit - but really, if the IQ was better than the EP2 (and that's a BIG if) then I still wouldn't want one for the practical reasons above.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Brian
    I do still have the A900 - and still love it, a file from the A900 with Zeiss glass is a thing of wonder and beauty. I'm also sure that I could borrow a NEX for a bit - but really, if the IQ was better than the EP2 (and that's a BIG if) then I still wouldn't want one for the practical reasons above.
    Hi, Jono! As you know, I've been struggling over my intense desire for an M9 with a standard prime to compliment my A900, but, having started a new business this year, I just can't justify spending that kind of money anytime soon.

    Well, it looks like Sony unintentionally created a near-perfect camera (for me) to slightly appease my Leica lust. If (and this is a BIG IF) the 35mm M lenses work well on the NEX at the edges, this camera will be an outstanding grab-and-go type camera. Below is a mock-up of the NEX-5 with a 35 summilux, courtesy of "thrice" on the fredmiranda forums (If you're on a 24" 1920x1200 monitor, this is life size):



    Now, I wanted to address some of the concerns about this camera, and how they relate to me and my uses.

    -IQ: There is no doubt that this sensor will perform better than m4/3. It is more or less the same sensor as the A550, but with video. I'm not the biggest proponent of DxO Mark or anything, but to give some an idea as to what we're talking about, the A550 ranks a lot closer to the M9 than the EP2:
    http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng...rand3)/Olympus

    -Lenses: I'm not terribly impressed with what I've seen so far, and these mediocre lenses are what are giving people an overall bad impression of the IQ of this camera. The sensor is better than that. Zeiss is rumored to be working on lenses, according to a Sony employee, but I plan on going the M route until then.

    -Lack of buttons: I have mixed feelings about this. I actually like the spartan design of the camera, and I don't think I'll be too hurt by the lack of buttons. I plan on shooting either A or M mode, and the aperture adjustment will be on the lens itself, so things should be fine. Granted, I hope Sony is listening to reviewers about software changes. I'm particularly concerned about changing ISO. The camera does have easy access to a manual focus zoom-in option, which is a relief for me.

    -Screen/EVF: I certainly hope that Sony brings an EVF at some point. However, I'm really excited to use this swivel screen, because the mechanics of it allow it to mimic a waistlevel finder. I've heard this screen does well in the sun, and holding the camera chest high and firing, like with my Hassies, sounds like a lot of fun. Also, I may try out the OVF. We'll see.

    All in all, I'm excited about this little $600 camera, and I'm getting one as soon as adapters come out. Granted, the above is no statement on how the camera will work for the general public. I have specific, weird preferences that just so happen to gel nicely with the NEX...I think.


    p.s. I may just use a ZM 35mm lens, to keep cost down.
    Last edited by douglasf13; 13th May 2010 at 10:59.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    I went ahead and ordered one from the SOny site (pre-ordered). I figure what the heck. I can always return it or sell it. I like the 24mm field of view with a full size APS-C sensor as I find that I use that focal length in interiors all of the time with the Ricoh GXR but I hate the S10 IQ. Having the ability to go even wider or shooting panoramas is even better. I figure FotoDiox or some other adapter seller will offer an M mount and that may expand the options. Additionally, it costs about what I expect Ricoh will charge for the 28mm module when it becomes available and it may not have this sensor.
    V/r John

  38. #88
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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Congratulations John, I will look forward to you real world report on the camera

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Was initially excited until I saw image samples and menu interface.

    So I give up. Just ordered GF-1 with 20mm. X1 far too expensive and I seriously question the ability to use M lens on the NEX (at least on the wide side). Don't forget a big part of the M8/9 cost is the fancy microlenses on the sensor and software correction going on. NEX won't have this.

    Anyway the more I look at the NEX it seems it's positioned to the Ashton Kucher crowd that want to take a step up. Nothing wrong with that just not for me.

  40. #90
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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by charlesphoto View Post
    Was initially excited until I saw image samples and menu interface.

    So I give up. Just ordered GF-1 with 20mm. X1 far too expensive and I seriously question the ability to use M lens on the NEX (at least on the wide side). Don't forget a big part of the M8/9 cost is the fancy microlenses on the sensor and software correction going on. NEX won't have this.

    Anyway the more I look at the NEX it seems it's positioned to the Ashton Kucher crowd that want to take a step up. Nothing wrong with that just not for me.
    Agreed about the microlens issue. I only really need a 50mm equivalent for a camera like this, so I'm HOPING that NEX does ok with 35mm M lenses. I don't need anything wider.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    -IQ: There is no doubt that this sensor will perform better than m4/3. It is more or less the same sensor as the A550, but with video. I'm not the biggest proponent of DxO Mark or anything, but to give some an idea as to what we're talking about, the A550 ranks a lot closer to the M9 than the EP2:
    http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng...rand3)/Olympus
    Hi Douglas
    I think Dx0 might be a bit misleading in this case - I'm sure that the Sony files will be fine with a good lens - but they simply wont compare in good light with an 18mp CCD with no AA filter.
    I'd also feel that after the experience of m4/3 with M lenses - a 35 on APSc is about the same as 25mm on m4/3, and the angle of incidence simply means that the edges aren't good enough - I just don't believe that a 35 'lux will perform on the NEx at the edges . . . . could be wrong of course :-)

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

  42. #92
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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Jono, I agree that the A550 is no M9, and DxO should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm simply saying that NEX certainly falls between the M9 and m4/3, as far as quality is concerned. Sensor size is important.

    I'm reading/learning more and more about angles of incidence and using adapted lenses. You may be correct, generally, about 35mm being a problem, but there are some x-factors involved. The distance of the exit pupil to the sensor is as important as the focal length itself. ie. some 35mm lenses will be better than others. In fact, the Contax G2 35mm and 45mm lenses would perform very similarly on NEX in the corners, due to their design. I'm thinking that a Summarit 35 may be a good choice, because it has a rather long exit pupil to sensor length. There also seems to be a big difference between 28mm and 35mm lenses in regards to this.

    Also, I've read that the sensor toppings on m4/3 are particularly thick, causing issues, and who knows what that situation on the NEX will be like? The only practical examples we have is with the Epson RD-1, which does fine with 35mm lenses, but that's only 6mp. Once adapters are available, I may just buy the darn thing and rent a bunch of lenses to try out. If none of them work, I could still use the NEX for fun movies and family snapshots.

    The NEX has the potential to be my ideal, cheap small cam, but we'll see. BTW, today's my birthday, Jono, so if you wanna send me an M9, I'll gladly accept!

    33 years and counting!
    Last edited by douglasf13; 13th May 2010 at 13:36.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    The distance of the exit pupil to the sensor is as important as the focal length itself. ie. some 35mm lenses will be better than others.


    Also, I've read that the sensor toppings on m4/3 are particularly thick, causing issues, and who knows what that situation on the NEX will be like? The only practical examples we have is with the Epson RD-1, but that's only 6mp.

    Good points, Douglas.

    I do not recall many complaints about the 35/1.4 on R-D1s

    The "sensor toppings" in m4/3rds (and/or 4/3rds) are exceptionally thicker than any others I have seen (RD1s, many Nikon DSLRs, I have not got to the NX-10 yet). As result of this (one aspect), the bokeh is usually creamy (~4.5mm of various glass on the sensor). R-D1s' "toppings" on its sensor, is much less (~2.75mm).

  44. #94
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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    I would expect the NEX to be in the same ballpark as Nikon's "sensor toppings" thickness, but I'll guess we'll have to wait and see. Oh man, I'm hoping a few 35mm lenses work. I may try that cheapie Voigtlander 35 1.4. It seems to have good distance from pupil to sensor, and, outside of barrel distortion, it's a decent performer. If I have issues with the 35mm lenses, I could probably deal with a 40mm Nokton or Summicron-C, etc.

    Interestingly, I just read that Sony is calling the 16mm NEX lens a "portrait" lens. I guess that's how they legitimize the soft corners. lol.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Douglas, If you have not seen these already, it would be of interest to you (in particular, Dr.Brian Caldwell's posts. He is a professional lens designer)

    http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00M5ag

    http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00EiFs

  46. #96
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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    I think this Sony Camera has the personality of a "concrete block"

    Photographers want personality, as defined by looks, weight, size, and of course, performance.

    Keith
    Are you looking for a camera, or a fashion accessory? Are you using it to shoot pictures, or impress people when you shoot? One of the most prolific discoverers of comets in the late 20th century did it with a telescope cobbled together out of a old brass Petzval lens, twine and a mounting made out of 2x4"s. Fact is, it could be a brick, literally, and it would still run rings around the micro 4/3rds gear when it comes to image quality, as does every decent camera with an APS sized sensor today.

  47. #97
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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Douglas, If you have not seen these already, it would be of interest to you (in particular, Dr.Brian Caldwell's posts. He is a professional lens designer)

    http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00M5ag

    http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00EiFs
    Thanks, Vivek. Those threads are enlightening. It's incredible how much of a factor sensor topping thickness is.

  48. #98
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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    BTW, today's my birthday, Jono, so if you wanna send me an M9, I'll gladly accept!

    33 years and counting!
    Well, I'll wish you a sincere
    HAPPY BIRTHDAY
    and I'll swap you 12 years for an M9

    Just this guy you know

  49. #99
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Hey, thanks Jono! I'll ask my wife if swapping out 12 years is acceptable.

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    Re: New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Hey, thanks Jono! I'll ask my wife if swapping out 12 years is acceptable.
    Just to clarify. That would mean we were both the same age as our new prime minister and we'd both have 1 m9. Maybe your wife has always hankered after the older man? I'm sure mine would be quite happy with a toy boy

    Just this guy you know

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