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Thread: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

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    Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    I spent the past few days researching Fast Wide Angle Primes for the m4/3 cameras. I will use this thread as a summary.
    C-mount lenses are available for upto a 1-inch sensor and vignetted heavily at lengths less than 25mm.
    35mm fisheyes like Peleng and Samyang 8mm/f3.5 allow a 16mm field of view but need lots of light (it becomes a 16mm f7.0).
    So I looked at some other options. An obvious check is to find lenses for sensors greater than 1-inch.
    It turns out that the Kodak Kai-4021 sensor is 1.2-inch. Its close enough to the 1.33" m4/3 sensor.
    Kodak Kai 4021 based cameras are popular in astronomy applications.
    Here are some pics of this sensor with unidentified lenses..
    http://www.optcorp.com/cart/producti...camera07-L.jpg
    http://www.alliedvisiontec.com/uploa...421-banner.jpg

    I simple search for Kai 4021 lens on google.

    So now perhaps we could have a group effort in identifying lenses for such cameras.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Zcream,

    The first link shows a Nikon zoom.

    The second link shows a picture of an 8.5mm f/1.2 which is most likely for a circular image.

    See: http://www.1stvision.com/elearning/L...T-Pike-421.pdf

    BTW, the 8mm f/3.5 Samyang will not "become" a 16mm f/7(!) lens on any cam.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Vivek. You are an encyclopedia. That document basically tells me its impossible as all the lenses that work are SLR lenses. I did not recognize the lens on the pic - but I trust your judgement.
    For the 8mm f3.5 comparison, the 8mm FOV doubles to 16mm due to the sensor size. Since the image circle now covers half the area, we are collecting less light, so its the equivalent of a 16mm f7 lens on the m4.3 sensor.
    Does this not make sense ?

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by zcream View Post
    Since the image circle now covers half the area, we are collecting less light, so its the equivalent of a 16mm f7 lens on the m4.3 sensor.
    Does this not make sense ?
    No, it doesn't make sense. You're collecting the same amount of light per unit area, so f/3.5 is f/3.5 regardless of the sensor size. Your DOF changes because of the sensor size, but the lens allows the same amount of light through. The sensor only sees the middle portion (1/4 area) of the equivalent 35mm/FF lens image.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    No change to the focal length or the aperture due to the format.

    I would wait for the 14/2.5 and the 8/3.5 fisheye from Pana for the m4/3rds.

    I say this after having experimented with quite few combinations ( 25/1.9 Xenoplan plus a 0.5 reducer, 17/2.8 Oly-D plus Ricoh 0.75X converter, 25/1.3 Computar-TV plus a 0.65X Century Optics converter, Fujinon-TV 12.5mm f/1.4 lens, tinkered 12.5mm Fujinon-TV lens, ..etc).

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Has anyone tried this lens
    Fujinon FE185C086HA-1 1" C Mount 2.7mm F1.8 5 Megapixel Manual Iris Fisheye Lens

    I know 1-inch is smaller than needed but still worth checking.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by zcream View Post
    Has anyone tried this lens
    Fujinon FE185C086HA-1 1" C Mount 2.7mm F1.8 5 Megapixel Manual Iris Fisheye Lens

    I know 1-inch is smaller than needed but still worth checking.

    I agree. I would love to try it if someone would donate a sample.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    With further research, here are the currently available "popular" Manual IRIS, Fixed Focal Cmount lenses on BH.
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...209+4289302490
    Just 12 in total. Here are the wides .
    Fujinon
    CF125HA-1 1" 12.5mm Industrial Lens
    Fujinon
    FE185C086HA-1 1" C Mount 2.7mm
    Fujinon
    CF16HA-1 16 mm f/1.4 Industrial Lens, Manual Iris
    Pentax
    C20616TH 6.5 mm f/1.8 Fixed Focus Industrial Lens
    Pentax
    12.5mm f/1.8 C-MT MANUAL IRIS - 1"


    Perhaps we could start by seeing what lenses have been used and known NOT to work,

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Paparazzi66 posted these lenses as his recs.
    The Cosmicar and Pentax are the same.
    I remember a review of the 12.5mm f1.4 and it crops a fair bit.
    I have yet to see reviews of the other lenses.
    - 4.5mm f2 tamron
    - 6.5mm f1.8 cosmicar
    - 12.5mm f1.4 cosmicar

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    From the Google spreadsheet
    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...QQ-HJwvNDobeEw
    Cosmicar 12.5 1.4 Yes no wjlapier, monza

    Tested and it vignettes. Here are some samples.
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=32224856

    Description of the mod, but I still missed a fullframe pic showing the vignetting.
    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?p=188414

    However, Godfrey has not given an uncropped pic to check the extent of vignetting. Other users are
    monza
    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6941

    Though he did not post a full frame from the 12.5mm f1.4

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Now we still need a full frame pic the 12.5mm f1.4 and there are still 4 more options to go.
    Ideally if someone works or knows someone in a CCTV dealership, they could have access to these lenses. No need for an adapter, just hold it in front of the camera, point at white paper and theres an approx idea of the coverage.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    So is this statement correct,
    I get a doubling of the FOV due to the smaller sensor and a doubling of the equivalent DOF. So its a f7 equivalent DOF.

    Quote Originally Posted by photoSmart42 View Post
    No, it doesn't make sense. You're collecting the same amount of light per unit area, so f/3.5 is f/3.5 regardless of the sensor size. Your DOF changes because of the sensor size, but the lens allows the same amount of light through. The sensor only sees the middle portion (1/4 area) of the equivalent 35mm/FF lens image.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by zcream View Post
    So is this statement correct,
    I get a doubling of the FOV due to the smaller sensor and a doubling of the equivalent DOF. So its a f7 equivalent DOF.
    Correct. Equivalent FOV and DOF change due to sensor size, the amount of light per unit area is the same for a given lens at a given aperture setting.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    I've been using the computar 12.5 f1.3. It has pretty reasonable sensor coverage. Here are a couple samples (nothing fancy):

    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink


    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink


    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Hi mjohnston. Would you mind posting a 16:9 frame pic as well ? Thanks!

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by zcream View Post
    Hi mjohnston. Would you mind posting a 16:9 frame pic as well ? Thanks!
    First one is 16:9 I believe.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Is the second one a crop, or is the vignetting not visible due to the shadows in the corners ?

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Just naturally dark. That's one of the best ways to use this kind of lens; work within the limitation, or purposefully use the parascope effect

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Has anyone experimented with 6.5mm lenses ? There are a few different ones - from f1.4 to f1.8 available on 2/3 and 1-inch sensors. I just bought a Computar 12.5m f1.3 lens from ebay.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    There is also a WOLLENSAK 6.5MM F/1.9. I have yet to see samples from it.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    zcream, Do you have any pictures with any lens to show us?

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Hi Vivek. ATM I only have a GH1 with 20mm pancake. I have ordered a Zeika Nominar 25mm 0.95, a Navitar 25mm 0.95 and a gaggle of C-mount lenses from the US and UK to test.
    Interestingly enough, my friend in Texas who is forwarding my mail is also called Vivek.
    I live in Australia so its a long wait for mail. I started this thread to organize my research into lenses, and I will post here as soon as the lenses are with me.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Zcream,

    The first link shows a Nikon zoom.

    The second link shows a picture of an 8.5mm f/1.2 which is most likely for a circular image.

    See: http://www.1stvision.com/elearning/L...T-Pike-421.pdf

    BTW, the 8mm f/3.5 Samyang will not "become" a 16mm f/7(!) lens on any cam.
    Notice the "very sharp" comments about the Fuji c-mount lenses? They are excellent.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    I think this is what RichA commented on.
    Fujinon CF 12.5 HA-1
    12.5 mm / 1.4
    C-Mount
    Heavy edge shading - not for full-field
    use.
    Very Sharp!
    Recommended

    However, the edge shading means vignetting, and I am hoping the Computar 12.5mm f1.3 has less vignetting than this lens.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by zcream View Post
    However, the edge shading means vignetting, and I am hoping the Computar 12.5mm f1.3 has less vignetting than this lens.
    zcream, I asked you about photos for a specific reason. I take it that you did not read my post (post #5 here).

    Fujinon-TV 12.5/1.4 (filter thread 52mm) covers the frame better than the Computar 12.5/1.3 than ever could.

    Even a modified Fujinon-TV 12.5 (complete illumination of the frame) has problems.

    I would reiterate what I said earlier. Wait for the Pana 14/2.5 or buy the Oly-D 17/2.8 to use.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    As probably none of the c-mount lenses in the WA department will cover the sensor with sufficient corner image quality, you might either do as Vivek suggests, or just buy the Panasonic 7-14

    C U
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by zcream View Post
    Has anyone experimented with 6.5mm lenses ? There are a few different ones - from f1.4 to f1.8 available on 2/3 and 1-inch sensors. I just bought a Computar 12.5m f1.3 lens from ebay.
    I have the Pentax 6.5/1.8 fixed focus. A fun lens to use if you are a Holga type photographer.

    Keith


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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    this is the same problem with four thirds, you are really left to the native lenses for WA/UWA

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    12.5mm lenses f1.3 or f1.4 lenses.
    Bit confusing, but there are
    Computar, Cosmicar/Pentax, Fuji/Fujinon,
    Last edited by zcream; 27th June 2010 at 03:23.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    SUCCESS.
    At the Google spreadsheet for GF1 compatible lenses, the only wide angle that works is the 8mm f1.8 Weinberger used by Solomon Chase. I researched this lens, and it turns out that it is specially made for a High-G (shock/vibration) environment such as an aircraft/car crash testing etc.
    Most of these lenses are made for a 26mm diagonal sensor, with enough coverage for a m4/3 in 16:9.
    I found a list of these sensors here..
    http://home.earthlink.net/~visinst/Lenses.html
    Here is someone who adapted one such lens to the GF1
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/cinegon/3909413131/

    The wide lenses that should work are :-
    Kinoptik Hyge Lenses with Caged Supports
    S00681* 9.8mm Tega, f/1.8, fixed focus

    Also, the Weinberger High-G 8mm f1.8 that Solomon tested.

    Others that may work are :-
    Paragon Hyge Lenes with Caged Supports

    S00534 5.5mm f/1.5 fixed focus
    S00535 7.5mm f/1.5 fixed focus
    S00618 10.0mm f/1.5 fixed focus
    S00536 13.0mm f/1.5 fixed focus,

    I found that 7.5mm f1.5 lens and it has a 4-hole flange mount. Its being shipped to me, so I will test and let you know.
    Last edited by zcream; 28th June 2010 at 04:57.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Zcream

    Hi!
    Well done! Never take no for an answer! You sound like a thoroughly obdurate fellow ;-) ! I like it!

    I have seen some of these HiG lenses. They are not always possessed of a friendly mount! I have some 13mm examples. Your page says fixed focus. I haven't tested them yet. Can't without serious metalworking. They take a 52mm filter and are housed in steel...... Not suitable for Dremeling....
    9.8mm Kinoptik Tegea is fabulous, but again, not a c-mount.

    If anyone can find em, you will!

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    zcream,. Search this forum. I have posted some shots using a Tegea 9.8mm on G1.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary


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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Some more to summarize.
    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14091
    >>>
    The Pentax 110 18mm lens works with a Ricoh GW-1 0.75X converter.

    There is slight vignetting in the corners though.

    Image quality is superb.
    >>> Quoted from Vivek.

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14091
    Schneider Cinegon 10mm/F1.8 vignettes.
    >>>
    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpo...83&postcount=1
    >>>

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    zcream

    I'm struggling to follow your point, could you please explain the relevance of the above post on 110 lenses? Considering that I'm a contributor to that thread.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    I had meant to collect together information about wide lenses. Most of whom do not work. A 10mm and 18mm lens is wide, and I simply pointed out issues with it.
    I have been doing research on this for the past few weeks and I am simply collecting any information I gathered in this thread.
    As you pointed out, you (and many others) have tested and shown many lenses - but this information is all over the place. This was meant to be a central repository.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by zcream View Post
    This was meant to be a central repository.
    Ahh ... a link to leap to other resources ... I see

    thanks for clearing that up, wasn't sure if the thread was still on that or not :-)

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Another one that came up is the Kowa LM8HC 8.0mm F1.4 C-Mount
    I have not seen pictures with these - perhaps someone could point out if it has been tested.
    Here is the spec .
    http://www.rmassa.com/specsheets/LM8HC%20.pdf

    Image coverage 12.8 X 9.6mm
    Last edited by zcream; 2nd July 2010 at 07:26.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    I dont know why Vivek did not mention this.
    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12689
    He modded a Fujinon-TV CF12.5A 12.5mm f/1.4 lens and bought the front element back by 5mm.
    However, the promised description of the mod never materialized. Hmm!
    I guess I have to spend on one now. Problem is that its 213/- incl delivery from Evilbay.
    I also contacted Weinberger service to see what it would cost to have a run of their 8mm f1.8 lenses and see what it would cost. Its a 20mm image circle.
    Last edited by zcream; 23rd July 2010 at 03:58.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary


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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by seb33 View Post
    There are lenses for 1.2-1.3" CCD sensors, but they cost between $2000 and $5000, the ones I've seen. That one above is probably well over $2000.

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    FOUND A 12mm f2 at least

    Kowa has launched its XC series for the 1.2" Kodak Kai sensor.
    Check this link.

    http://www.kowa-europe.com/fa/en/4_3inch_xc_series.php

    LM12XC is a 12mm f2 lens with a 23mm image circle.

    Should offer full coverage, but dont know about the cost.

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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by RichA View Post
    There are lenses for 1.2-1.3" CCD sensors, but they cost between $2000 and $5000, the ones I've seen. That one above is probably well over $2000.
    And it's HUGE and heavy. MTF looks good, but over 20% distortion! No thanks.

    Henning

  44. #44
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    Re: Problems with Wide Lenses - Summary

    WIDE SHARP CHEAP and FAST C-mount lens on GH2 !!! (Pentax 6mm 1:1.2 with crop mode 1:1)
    http://vimeo.com/20766631
    NEW : QUICK TEST between this lens and the Lumix pancake 14mm 1:2.5 here :
    vimeo.com/​20788176
    AT LEAST I've found the PERFECT WIDE SHARP and CHEAP lens for the GH2 !!! It's a C-mount Pentax/Cosmicar 6mm 1:1.2 lens I've bought 9.99 (12.50$) on Ebay !
    The rear barrel had to be modified for 20 (watch pictures below) to fit on the C-mount to micro 4/3 adapter (Kipon).
    This 6mm focal lenght on the GH2 gives a huge vignetting on micro 4/3 sensor, but thanks to the new crop 1:1 GH2 function, the vignetting is disappearing completely !
    This 6mm lens with the crop function gives nearly the same frame (same width but less height) than on the Lumix 14mm 1:2.5, but much much more faster.
    It's a sharp lens, even with the crop. In 24X36 eq. it's a 30mm.
    This lens is incredible for GH2, there is no other competition for such a fast lens !

    In this movie you will watch daylight tests (always @ 1:1.2, 1/50 shutter speed, 160 asa) with a 22 Polaroid 43mm variable ND filter and a 40.5 to 43mm step-up ring, there's my girlfriend preparing her new collection for children "Pitchoovintage".
    Then you will watch night test, from 160 to 3200 asa, always @ 1:1.2 and 1/50 shutter speed.

    GH2 24P
    Crop mode 1:1
    No CC
    from 160 to 3200 asa
    from 1/25 to 1/50 shutter speed
    C-mount Pentax/Cosmicar 6mm 1:1.2
    edited on Adobe Premiere CS5

    music : Elusive "Intro" + "writing on the wall" from "Pressure Drop" EP
    duration : 4mn49sec

    HERE IS AN INTERESTING LINK FOR HOMEMADE C-MOUNT MACHINING :
    cjeastwd.blogspot.com/​2009/​06/​adapting-lens-to-fit-mount.html
    And a post (in french) from my friend Christophe about the crop :
    christophemilet.com/​?p=1589

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