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Thread: New compact micro 4/3!!!

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    New compact micro 4/3!!!

    So far its just a rumor but the 43rumors website has been right many many times. It seems like Panasonic will anounce in July a compact micro 4/3 camera with a fixed lens that is barely bigger than the LX3. This could be THE perfect pocket camera! I cannot wait!

    http://43rumors.com/ft5-awesome-new-...d-rangefinder/

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    A "rangefinder-type optical viewfinder that is borrowed from Leica" really? That would be very surprising. And with a fixed lens, how can it then be a 4/3 camera? Isn't the lens mount a part of the specification?

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Hey, if they want to come up with a camera that can fit on my pocket with a micro 4/3 sensor and a fixed lens you wont hear any complaining from my part.

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    I knew it! Yay! That would be a nice companion to my GH1!
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Im wondering about the price though. It has to be cheaper than the GF1 and not cheap enough to step on the LX3s shoes (which is still selling a lot).

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Wish they make something like GRD with 4/3 sensor

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
    A "rangefinder-type optical viewfinder that is borrowed from Leica" really?
    All that means is an external VF that has etch lines for both the wide and long zoom positions.

    Cheers,

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Rafa, I won't complain either... But if a 3x zoom fitting a 4/3 sensor also fits your pocket - how fast do you think the lens would be?

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    Im wondering about the price though. It has to be cheaper than the GF1 and not cheap enough to step on the LX3s shoes (which is still selling a lot).
    I don't know about protecting the LX3 price so much. I'm sure Panasonic would be willing to have an incentive for people to buy this new product over one of their existing product lines that's now 3 years old. This is likely the LX3 replacement camera line.
    -Dragos
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by simonclivehughes View Post
    All that means is an external VF that has etch lines for both the wide and long zoom positions.
    Probably. I guess you can see why I am a little annoyed; a fixed lens camera is called for a 4/3 camera, a not coupled (maybe even external) optical viewfinder is called rangefinder style. How old are these rumor loving guys?

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
    Rafa, I won't complain either... But if a 3x zoom fitting a 4/3 sensor also fits your pocket - how fast do you think the lens would be?
    Faster than the m4/3 kit lens I bet. I'm guessing f/2.8-ish at the fast end. I don't see them fitting a collapsible f/2.0 with such a large sensor, but I could be wrong.
    -Dragos
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by photoSmart42 View Post
    Faster than the m4/3 kit lens I bet. I'm guessing f/2.8-ish at the fast end. I don't see them fitting a collapsible f/2.0 with such a large sensor, but I could be wrong.
    I would venture that it will be a f/1.9 constant zoom.

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I would venture that it will be a f/1.9 constant zoom.
    That would be awesome but Im not so sure...

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    How would it become faster and smaller than the kit zoom? That doesn't sound very plausible unless they have came up with some very nifty way to fold the lens into nothing.

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
    How would it become faster and smaller than the kit zoom? That doesn't sound very plausible unless they have came up with some very nifty way to fold the lens into nothing.
    I don't know, but I'm sure they can make it happen. With a fixed lens you're no longer constrained by the mount flange, so you have more room to optimize the optics and play with different lenses. It wouldn't make sense to launch something as slow as the f/3.5 kit lens. I'm guessing it'll be a 24-48/2.8-4.0 personally. We'll see.
    -Dragos
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    ".it will have a special rangefinder-type optical viewfinder that is borrowed from Leica with marks in it for max zoom and fully wide angle!"

    I think what he means is the hot shoe variety of finder that is, not uncommonly found on RF cameras. Perhaps not unlike the one offered for X1 which appears to be about the same sort of camera


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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sagar View Post
    Wish they make something like GRD with 4/3 sensor
    Later this year there will be the Ricoh GXR with a 28mm A12 unit with APS-C sensor, better than a 4/3 sensor. Not as compact as the GRDs, though, but still compact.

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    ".it will have a special rangefinder-type optical viewfinder that is borrowed from Leica with marks in it for max zoom and fully wide angle!"

    I think what he means is the hot shoe variety of finder that is, not uncommonly found on RF cameras. Perhaps not unlike the one offered for X1 which appears to be about the same sort of camera

    Perhaps. I'm not dismissing the idea of a built-in RF-style OVF with markings and some electronic overlay that somehow projects what would be the second RF image for focusing. That, plus a 3" LCD in the rear. I can only hope for simple Leica-style controls at the top, but I'm guessing it'll be the standard Panasonic controls on it.
    -Dragos
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    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    yes Dragos thats possible too, much like a viewfinder camera
    I think struggling with these definitions is just one facet of the new age of photography that we find ourselves in.

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    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    I would also like to say that I really dont understand the problem some people seem to have with this particular site, it is after all clearly about 'rumours'. The guy obviously has 'sources' and some that he knows are good, as well as being a pretty reasonable news area for all things four thirds, something that we dont get out of sites many of the same people would deem to have a higher reputation.

    Add to that some context, the guys an Italian, english is not his first language and he does seem to struggle with that sometimes. He did say he was taking classes for english language, thats dedication a cut above the rest IMO, ymmv

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    I think struggling with these definitions is just one facet of the new age of photography that we find ourselves in.
    +1. I think with everything becoming electronic in some form, we'll be seeing new types of cameras that simply defy the old/existing definitions, so we'll have to find new ones. m4/3 was one of those head-scratchers, and I'm still not convinced we've settled on a moniker for them yet.
    -Dragos
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    I would also like to say that I really dont understand the problem some people seem to have with this particular site, it is after all clearly about 'rumours'.
    Perhaps those are the ones that dislike rumors? I don't see any point in "pre-production" model reviews either.

    BTW, I think the non English background adds to the flair/flavor of that site. I sincerely hope that it will not get spoiled by some language classes.

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    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by photoSmart42 View Post
    It wouldn't make sense to launch something as slow as the f/3.5 kit lens. I'm guessing it'll be a 24-48/2.8-4.0 personally. We'll see.
    The rumor says it's a 3x zoom--even better

    This sounds very interesting, although at this point I'd be more excited about a GH2 or GF2 release (since I have so many lenses for m4/3). I want to see a shutterless sensor with 24fps and 60fps video recording.

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    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    You would think that photographers of all people would be willing to give a little license to dream a little. And sure as shoot, if we waited for Olympus to inform us on technology directions of interest or even with broad hints we would be waiting an eternity.

    The site fills a role that no other takes on, and has its share of successes too.

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    You would think that photographers of all people would be willing to give a little license to dream a little.
    Who is stopping anyone from that? Why does one have to have "reliable sources" (within a company for sure)?

    Riley, Are you saying that you disliked the curtain trick of Olympus before they unveiled the EP?

    Please tell me that you at least liked that blendtech advert.

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    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Who is stopping anyone from that? Why does one have to have "reliable sources" (within a company for sure)?
    well it comes down to a credible success rate, that is to say while not all rumours can be well founded (by the nature of their application), at least some of them come to be.

    I guess he would track who submits rumour material with an eye for reliable sources to be able to attach a level of certainty (or not) to it

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek
    Riley, Are you saying that you disliked the curtain trick of Olympus before they unveiled the EP?

    Please tell me that you at least liked that blendtech advert.
    how long ago was that again....

    I keep getting emails about how Olympus have not forgotten to support four thirds, immediately followed by material on the latest micro FT gimmick

    wtf, makes me mad as hell!

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I would venture that it will be a f/1.9 constant zoom.
    Splendid . . . .but how can it be small, with an f1.9 3x zoom - of course, it would be wonderful, but it's hard to see how it could be managed.

    all the best

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Splendid . . . .but how can it be small, with an f1.9 3x zoom - of course, it would be wonderful, but it's hard to see how it could be managed.

    all the best
    I feel the same way. It will probably be a 14-45mm f2.8 (if were lucky may well get a constant f2.8, but I doubt that too).

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    I feel the same way. It will probably be a 14-45mm f2.8 (if were lucky may well get a constant f2.8, but I doubt that too).
    If we're lucky . . . . . i'd settle for f3.5 / f5.6 for something small with a 4/3 sensor, as long as it was small, and the lens was reasonable quality. Personally I'd much rather a 12-36 though . . . . .

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    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    you wont get photographically useful cameras out of them for our purposes
    they seem to want to play to the lowest common denominator

    Id be happier with a fixed fast focal like the old 37mm/1.8 compacts that used to be around. Then like the DMD add wide converter and short tele

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/DMD.shtml

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    you wont get photographically useful cameras out of them for our purposes
    they seem to want to play to the lowest common denominator
    Oh? why not?
    I've been playing with one of their lowest common denominator cameras recently (TZ10 / v-lux20). It only does what it says on the tin, but it does it well, I've made some some perfectly adequate 13 x 19 prints out of it, and that's with a sensor about 1/10th of the size of the one we're talking about here.

    extrapolate

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    extrapolate?

    not many of the optics for the interchangeable lens cameras are good, most of them approach fair, control suites are limited and EPL1 is a good example of good IQ performance and god-awful control performance. You either have an EVF or a 'B' grade flash that wont bounce, but not both on cameras that 'only' resemble cameras of a bygone age,....with good reason

    what part of that leads you to expect a Zuiko like 14-35/2 on what looks to be even more of a P&S box for nerds.

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    extrapolate?


    not many of the optics for the interchangeable lens cameras are good, most of them approach fair, control suites are limited and EPL1 is a good example of good IQ performance and god-awful control performance. You either have an EVF or a 'B' grade flash that wont bounce, but not both on cameras that 'only' resemble cameras of a bygone age,....with good reason

    what part of that leads you to expect a Zuiko like 14-35/2 on what looks to be even more of a P&S box for nerds.
    Nothing - I think I was talking of f3.5 / f5.6

    What's more I know what a 14-35 for 4/3 looks like . . . there already is one, and it weighs nearly 1kg, costs nearly 2000.

    But I disagree with you about optics for mft - there are a number of good lenses and the cameras are perfectly useable . . . unless you try and use an EVF and a flash at the same time

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Splendid . . . .but how can it be small, with an f1.9 3x zoom - of course, it would be wonderful, but it's hard to see how it could be managed.

    all the best
    Otherwise, what is there to fret about a P&S cam? With the association of Leica name, it is bound be an under priced over performer...

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Otherwise, what is there to fret about a P&S cam? With the association of Leica name, it is bound be an under priced over performer...

    sarcasm may be the 'lowest form of wit' but I was always rather partial to it myself.

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    sarcasm may be the 'lowest form of wit' but I was always rather partial to it myself.
    Pardon me..English is not supposed to be my first language either.

    I will venture into making a serious prediction. The purported P&S cam would also show "starry sky" when used for long exposures on a tripod with the self timer on (this is even when not attempting any star trail photos).
    Last edited by Vivek; 29th June 2010 at 13:16.

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    LX3 size, 3xZoom, MT sensor, OVF.... the dream to me...
    So lets dream a bit more, Leica lens constant f2 -14-42mm, GH swivel type of screen with 1040,000 pixels, IS of course, NO scene modes at all , fully manual option, dust/rain proof. As the lens is fixed, if it is well made, bye bye dust on sensor. Then we can add all the latest video stuff, improved back light sensor for high sensitivity.
    I am pretty sure it would come out with the touch screen.... too fragile for me.
    .... and light silver gey please or better "chrome".

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sagar View Post
    Wish they make something like GRD with 4/3 sensor
    Yes, or even the foveon sensor. I would find it difficult to resist that.

    Paul

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Pardon me..English is not supposed to be my first language either.
    Exactly Vivek - you are to be thoroughly congratulated

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sinwen View Post
    LX3 size, 3xZoom, MT sensor, OVF.... the dream to me...
    So lets dream a bit more, Leica lens constant f2 -14-42mm, GH swivel type of screen with 1040,000 pixels, IS of course, NO scene modes at all , fully manual option, dust/rain proof. As the lens is fixed, if it is well made, bye bye dust on sensor. Then we can add all the latest video stuff, improved back light sensor for high sensitivity.
    If you are to get all these things . . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by sinwen View Post
    I am pretty sure it would come out with the touch screen.... too fragile for me.
    .... and light silver gey please or better "chrome".
    Surely you can put up with this!

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    I guess this could be real, but 43 Rumors seems to spin a wheel and assign their ratings based on that. Their track record is "Above Average" on the old DPReview scale .

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    I guess this could be real, but 43 Rumors seems to spin a wheel and assign their ratings based on that. Their track record is "Above Average" on the old DPReview scale .
    I think as far as FT5 rumors are concerned, they've been pretty much right on with new product announcements, so I for one am hopeful about this particular rumor. Their record for FT4 rumors has been hit-miss, but pretty decent. All the other FT-rated rumors fall anywhere between left field and the nether region of some bovine =). We'll see how this one shapes up.
    -Dragos
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    if true...Panasonics spinning their tyres...bLowing more smoke...

    When what they need's a new sensor and global shutter... for the m4/3

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by photoSmart42 View Post
    I think as far as FT5 rumors are concerned, they've been pretty much right on with new product announcements
    There have been weak FT5 rumors. Like this one: http://43rumors.com/ft5-hot-new-olym...s-coming-soon/

    Here's some pure FT4 link bait: http://43rumors.com/panasonic-gf2-patent/

    If you can get highly ranked on Google for "GF2", the cash follows, but the reputation will suffer.

    You would never see Engadget or MacRumors make these types of posts.

  45. #45
    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Y.B.Hudson III View Post
    if true...Panasonics spinning their tyres...bLowing more smoke...

    When what they need's a new sensor and global shutter... for the m4/3
    there was talk about gapless microlenses for a Panasonic sensor, Im pretty certain they are not gapless ATM. The e/v aside, thats the difference between Canon sensor examples and those of Panasonic

    If you talk about the global shutter in terms of why you have it and what it can do things like multi exposure come to mind. Multi exposure was mentioned in a Panasonic interview, where they claimed it was tied up with Kodak owned patents, .....it didnt sound at all hopeful
    Last edited by Riley; 29th June 2010 at 19:29. Reason: corrections

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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    I just don't buy the rumor, it doesn't really make sense. First, how can they make a 3x zoom with reasonable speed that is significantly smaller than the current m4/3 kit zooms. Perhaps a bit smaller, but not significantly. And if it wasn't significantly smaller, what would be the point and why would it be an "LX4" instead of just another m4/3. Yet the rumor also says only slightly bigger than an LX3. So something fishy is in paradise, unless they have miraculous new technology (magnetic focusing of light waves?)

    My bet (pure guesswork) is that it will have a larger sensor than the LX3 but not as big as 4/3. Maybe Jono's desired 2/3. Perhaps someone at Panny said "it will have the image quality of a 4/3" but didn't actually say it would have the sensor of one.

    Michael
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  47. #47
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    I think regardless of whether or not anything actually comes out in July from Panasonic, it's fair to say the buzz generated by the possibility of something like this shows the market desire for it, so if Panasonic is listening and they're not actually going to release anything in July, they should think about it.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  48. #48
    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    well you could look at a site like rumours as a tool for market research. Panasonic (or indeed anyone else) could seed a rumour there to an unwitting editor just to gauge the market potentials.

    that would seem to me to be almost irresistible

  49. #49
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    yehh... I don't think that the demographic that would optimize profits inhabit Rumor forums...

    But then again...it's a clueless design philosophy that comes out with a compact m4/3 body (GF1) with video capacity on one hand, and then introduces a compact fast lens (20mm, 1.7) that is virtualy useless for video, because of the auto focus noise... go figure?
    Last edited by Y.B.Hudson III; 29th June 2010 at 23:02.

  50. #50
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    Re: New compact micro 4/3!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Y.B.Hudson III View Post
    if true...Panasonics spinning their tyres...bLowing more smoke...

    When what they need's a new sensor and global shutter... for the m4/3
    Well said!

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