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E5 vs D700--tests

nugat

New member
I just got two packages : E5 and Nikkor 24-120/4 VR.
I will have a chance now to compare (E5 with 12-60mm and nikkor on D700).
Any requests, suggestions?
 
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Vivek

Guest
I just got two packages : E5 and Nikkor 24-120/4 VR.
I will have a chance now to compare (E5 with 12-60mm and nikkor on D700).
Any requests, suggestions?

I think it is a futile exercise. If you can use the same lens on both the cams, that will show the differences and those will be predictable.

One thing to test (regardless of the lens used) would be a 30s exposure shot.
Again, here, I believe that the D70 will triumph.
 

jonoslack

Active member
I think it is a futile exercise. If you can use the same lens on both the cams, that will show the differences and those will be predictable.
I agree that it's got it's limitations, however, I'd be very interested in the camparative performance of those two lenses - they are, after all, of an equivalent focal length, and a very useful one as well.
I've always thought the 12-60 as one of the very best zooms . . . . and the older nikkor 24-120 one of the worst (especially with regard to corner and edge performance) I'll be interested to see whether that's still the case.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I just got two packages : E5 and Nikkor 24-120/4 VR.
I will have a chance now to compare (E5 with 12-60mm and nikkor on D700).
Any requests, suggestions?
As I am working with the D700 right now (my backup for MFDigital) I would be interested if

1) high ISO up to 3200 is comparable
2) if it is true that the E5 sensor is able to deliver better detail as Olympus is telling is in the marketing messages? Also better dynamic range and out of the camera colors.
3) How good the AF of the E5 is compared to the D700 - I know this is a bit unfair, but would like to see if it is at least as sensitive and working in bad lightning etc. Not talking about sophisticated auto-follow of subjects, here the D700 is the clear winner and this would be unfair.

Is there any chance to get some getter glass? Maybe Zuiko 2/14-35 for the Oly and Nikkor 2.8/24-70? These are some of the high end lenses in both systems, so it would be a fair comparison. I fear that the lenses you currently have for test are rather imposing several upfront issues, as their quality is good, but not top - MHO

Thanks anyway for taking this effort

Peter

PS: BTW, I started looking closer into the E5 and some reviews and I am getting more and more interested in this beast - especially in combination with Zuiko 2/14-35 and 2/35-70. Never say never again ;). Man, this forum costs me money .....
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I just got two packages : E5 and Nikkor 24-120/4 VR.
I will have a chance now to compare (E5 with 12-60mm and nikkor on D700).
Any requests, suggestions?
I find such comparisons uninteresting, personally. I already know what a D700 can do, and I've already become quite aware of what the E-5 can do in technical terms. I'm quite satisfied with the E-5's capabilities and my current lens kit.

Buying the E-5 cost me quite a lot less than choosing to change systems ... buy a D700 and a whole new kit of comparable lenses ... for whatever small advantage a D700 kit might provide to my work. This is a much more important comparison than comparing technical differences of these camera's capabilities. Both are highly competent 12Mpixel bodies with excellent lenses backing them up.

Greater differences between what they produce in photographs rest on how photographers use them, imo, than in what they are technically capable of.
 

nugat

New member
first impressions

I took both combos on a walk today around sunset. Click for a click, both in "P", VR/IS on. I believe now that nikkor 24-120/f4 VR is a great piece of glass, equal to Zuiko 12-60.
Image Quality:
Jpegs:
Up to 1600ISO I like E5 pictures better. More detail and better color/DR. But Nikon Jpegs suck, we know that, and Oly's fly.
From 3200ISO D700 wins.
Raws:
Unfortunately there is no common platform to compare (exept dcraw-don't have that).
In LR3 up to 1600 ISO, E5 jpegs win over Nikon Nefs, IMHO.
Above that NEFs win , 6400ISO NEF give a pleasent film-like grain, Oly's are unusable IMHO.

We are not surprised, are we?
2x diagonal gathers 4x light, and noise is 1/4- all other things being equal (of course they are not). D700 at 6400 Iso gives a very nice grainy picture, E5 at 1600 ISO struggles.
Nikon and Oly jpegs and NEFs were all seen in LR3 .
Until we get ORFs in LR3 I do not undertake to compare raws directly.
Sorry no pics, but just got back home.
PS. I compared those first pics on EIZO monitor fed from iMac i7/LR3, also at 100%. My gut feeling is prints from those two combos would be very similar in IQ whatever the ISO.
PS.PS. I like E5 more for ergonomics. Love at first sight (never touched E3 before). D700 live view is unusable IMHO, on the Oly's articulating LCD it's perfect.
PS.PS.PS.
Given Vivek's and Godfrey's reservations I'll end here, they dissuaded me from the "uninteresting futile excercise" successfully.
 
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Vivek

Guest
nugat (I apologize for forgetting your name), Post lots of pictures. Start a "fun with E5" thread.

Glad that you like the E5 for many of the things it has to offer.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
As I said already a good comparison would be at a reasonable ISO value for both - say 200 or 400 - to compare RAWs with top lenses from both systems.

Think this is the only way to see how Olympus does with their processing engine in the camera and also how the always praised E system lenses can hold up (or are even better) compared to Nikon latest glass.

That we have advantages at ISO levels above 1600 for the D700 is no surprise, actually this is one of the main reasons I am using the D700.

Thanks anyway for doing these tests.

PS: I for myself am very interested in such tests and actually do not understand why they should not be done.

PS1: who does not like to read some results can also decide not to do so ;) just go off this thread and do not look back again :eek:
 

nugat

New member
I have access to 4/3: 50/2 , 25/1.4, 14-35/2, 35-100/2 and nikkor: 24/1.4, 50/1.4, 105/2.8VR.
Which pairs would you like to see compared and at what f# and ISO?
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I never said not to do such tests: I simply said I don't find such comparison tests very interesting or informative. Other kinds of comparisons are much more interesting to me.

In the spirit of producing useful information about the Olympus E-5 to those who are interested in it, I posted a set of simple ISO test shots a couple of days after I took it home. The original exposures were made casually ... hand-held in my office. The page was originally built with the in-camera JPEGs.

I've since been processing E-5 files in Lightroom 3.3RC using the technique of changing the "E-5" model descriptor in the EXIF data to "E-30". So today I added two renderings of the ISO 6400 exposure using the same .ORF files from October 23. On one, I left the Detail panel settings (sharpening and noise reduction) at the LR3.3RC defaults. On the other, I added some sharpening and noise filtering. The results are posted at the bottom of this page:

http://www.gdgphoto.com/Olympus_E-5-ISO_check/

In my opinion, ISO 6400 is very usable and produces quite satisfactory results with a little care in rendering. It may not compete directly with the Nikon D700 ... with photosites of about 4x the area, the D700 ought to have another stop or two sensitivity to work with ... only makes sense.
 
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nugat

New member
6400 ISO

As I said I don't undertake to compare raws from different developers (or those with forced different camera EXIF tag) , so here is a 6400 ISO from D700 and E5: 100% crops and full scene.
50/1.4G and 25/1.4D respectively. EXIFs embedded to check.
NEF to full JPEG 100% crop and Oly JPEG 100%, no post except crop.
The most difficult light for any camera: very warm (2500K) tungsten old fashioned bulbs.
Of course we can now dissect WB, focus, exposure, compression etc etc until somebody proves that one or another was handicapped. I took enough pictures on D700 and EP1 before, to say that E5 does not differ from EP1 in the worst possible light and at 6400 ISO, while D700 manages (barely). 2 stop difference is still there. The laws of physics unchanged for the time being.
Of course if the 6400 ISO test is conducted in good light, the results will be levelled and to some viewers equally acceptable. But what's the point of such amplification in good light?
PS. I should also add why take hand-held pictures in such a bad light in the first place? Other than photojournalism (or rare specialty needs) , it is hard to imagine needing 6400ISO, ultrafast (f1.4) lens and slow shutter with IS.
Photography after all is "drawing with light" not with "noise". I personally rarely find interesting light drawings needing more than 1600 ISO. BUt that's personal of course.
 
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RichA

New member
I just got two packages : E5 and Nikkor 24-120/4 VR.
I will have a chance now to compare (E5 with 12-60mm and nikkor on D700).
Any requests, suggestions?
Resolution will be identical, or nearly so. Before, I'd give the edge to the D700 based on comparing it with a D300, but against the E-5, which has no AA filter, the Olympus might edge it. In terms of noise, there will be no contest, the D700 will clobber the E-5. I'd pay attention to deep blue skies at low ISO. Likely the E-5 will show noise in it on close examination.
 

m3photo

New member
Drawing with Light

Photography after all is "drawing with light" not with "noise". I personally rarely find interesting light drawings needing more than 1600 ISO. BUt that's personal of course.
Excellent point.
Thanks for the comparison work.
 

nugat

New member
Zuiko 12-60 and Nikkor 24-120VR resolution charts

I mounted both on E5 and D700 respectively.
$ for $, pixel for pixel, f-length for f-length, aperture for aperture.
Both at native 200 ISO.
Both with wide open apertures at a given f-length: widest end, 50mm FF equivalent and top telephoto.
Tripod, focus bracketing, release cable, mirror LU, you name it.
>100% crops of respective center and corner resolution patterns.
All EXIFs embedded, so everybody can pull all the info needed.
Conclusions are also left to each viewer.
Thank God I am leaving tomorrow for the long weekend for Vilnius with ...one of the combos.
No more silly tests, just the pure pleasure of photography.
Cheers.
PS. Nikon NEFs developed in LR3 and converted directly to jpegs (nikon ooc jpegs are really worse). Olympus ORFs are same resolution as JPEGs in Olympus Viewer. Therefore LR3 JPEGs are used for comparison. LR 3 does not offer E5 raw compatibility yet.
 
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nugat

New member
Zuiko 12-60 and Nikkor 24-120VR resolution charts PART 2

last two pairs.pick your favorites.
 
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ptomsu

Workshop Member
From those results the E5 looks like a no brainer if you request clearly higher IQ at normal ISO.

Impressive results!

Thanks for your efforts again!
 

jonoslack

Active member
Re: first impressions

In LR3 up to 1600 ISO, E5 jpegs win over Nikon Nefs, IMHO.
Above that NEFs win , 6400ISO NEF give a pleasent film-like grain, Oly's are unusable IMHO.

We are not surprised, are we?
yes, I am - and impressed and heartened too - I'll be really glad to see that Oly have finally cracked it with an excellent camera.

Still interested to see the comparison between those two 'take away' 24-120 lenses on corner and edge resolution.

all the best
Jono
 

nugat

New member
corners etc

the corner stuff is in the crops (one cam/glass combo shows CA in most corner crops)
12-60mm zuiko olympus (oly) and 24-120mm nikkor VR (nef)
to make things easier:
100133 oly 12mm/f2.8
100160 oly 25mm/f3.4
100188 oly 60mm/f4
5411nef 24mm/f4
5426nef 50mm/f5.6
5432nef 120mm/f4
 
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