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Thread: GH2 impressions

  1. #101
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Is the GH2 body alone for sale anywhere; all the ones I have seen include zooms. TIA, kl
    Actually, Tesselator's response made me smile. I'm not hanging on to my GF-1 having acquired the GH-2 and part of my financial calculations include taking the 14-42 off the GH-2 and selling it with the GF-1 as a 'kit'.

    LouisB

  2. #102
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    panasonic.com in the US sells body only. It is $899 don't know if they will ship to AU but check and see if Panasonic AU has an online store.
    Pana AU is a joke in terms of pricing though it doesn't seem as bad this time round. They haven't even bothered listing it on their lumix site. $1500 at teds with lens, i think they are over valuing the lens combo =) guess its better than the 3k that they were asking for when the gh1 came out.

    Fingers crossed there is a patch soon after firmware release to switch from nstc to pal so i can pick one up from the US.

  3. #103
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Here in Norway you can buy GH2 as a body only, or in a kit with either 14-42 or 14-140.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    The gh2 is definitely available body only thru panasonic direct. Or you could look in the commercial sales forum here and contact monza

  5. #105
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Peter

    How did you find the colours compare between the GH2 and the K5? I am having a hard time - I love the K5 but my lenses are definately front and back focusing. A replacement body may well fix it but my 'head' says get a GH2 instead. Why? I will then have

    GH2 + 14-140mm (most of the cost is the lens in fact, so a 'cheap' new body)
    G1
    Panny 14-45mm
    Panny 20mm
    Olympus 9-18mm
    +
    Pentax 28mm manual focus
    Pentax 43mm Ltd

    that could all be used. If I went for the K5, many of those lenses may just gather dust.

    It's a 'no brainer' really isn't it?

    I also gather that manual focus assist is easier to activate in the GH2 than the G1, by just turning a thumbwheel?

    But that K5 is so alluring ... still in a quandary. One day I have *decided* on a replacement K5, the next, the logical answer of GH2 pulls me.

    I mostly take lowish ISO stills. No doubt that the high ISO of the K5 is stunning but how often will I really use it?

    Lee

  6. #106
    Senior Member Tesselator's Avatar
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    That's good news about the GH2 body only option. Was the GH1 also available in body only in your respective countries? Here it wasn't and I didn't dig too deep but I think it wasn't in the US or UK either. Oh well, I guess that's what I get for assuming Panasonic incapable of learning. I hope they also learned the more important (to me) lesson of including language options in the models destined/marketed for Asian. Here the GH1 (and all G models I think) came in Japanese and you could switch it if you liked to, yeah, Japanese. I think the Chinese models were the same deal.


    Quote Originally Posted by MRfanny View Post
    Fingers crossed there is a patch soon after firmware release to switch from nstc to pal so i can pick one up from the US.
    If you mean a user created patch like we saw on the GH1 I think we're out of luck. The bulk of the GH1s shipped with the firmware unprotected and un-encrypted. After the GH13 hack became popular they (reportedly) locked things down and put heavy encryption on it. Reportedly this is true of the GH2 as well. So no user patches unless some kind soul at Panasonic leaks a key or unless someone's computer just chances on the right key - which is like, a trillion to 1 chance or something.
    Last edited by Tesselator; 15th January 2011 at 10:28.

  7. #107
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    I just couldn't resist the temptation any more and bought today one with the 14-140mm zoom. I know this lacks in some ways compared to the K-5 I also had in mind, but I think this will be a powerful combo for traveling and video. It was a busy day and I'm only beginning to learn the ins and outs. So far it feels a pretty complicated system and I'm afraid I need to really read the manual which I almost never do properly. It feels like there are two or three different cameras that were put together. Like the different video settings. You can have the camera in some still mode like aperture priority and shoot video with the red dotted button. Then you can switch to "manual video" and shoot using the shutter release - what, 4, 5 or 6 different video formats that need to be chosen from different parts of the menu???

    But when I manage to learn the ropes, I have high expectations for this cam.

  8. #108
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
    If you mean a user created patch like we saw on the GH1 I think we're out of luck. The bulk of the GH1s shipped with the firmware unprotected and un-encrypted. After the GH13 hack became popular they (reportedly) locked things down and put heavy encryption on it. Reportedly this is true of the GH2 as well. So no user patches unless some kind soul at Panasonic leaks a key or unless someone's computer just chances on the right key - which is like, a trillion to 1 chance or something.
    The main reason why the newer gh1's couldn't be hacked was because they stopped releasing firmware (v1.34) for it to be reversed. Just need some disgruntled employee in repairs to leak it and its game on...ha So unless they plan to never release firmware updates for the gh2, which is highly unlikely, there is still hope =)

  9. #109
    Senior Member Tesselator's Avatar
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Mmm, OK, but the newer GH1s and I assume the GH2s, use a completely different firmware technique which includes high-bit decryption. The firmware files themselves are high-bit encrypted. Even if we have access to the firmware files you're talking about it will be next to impossible to hack. I guess if we had a few hundred super-computers we could probably get into the file in only a few months - again unless we just lucked out or something.

    If there is a v1.34 for the older GH1 cameras however then what you say is correct.

  10. #110
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Read the entire thread. Tesselator, just curious, when you state that the GH2 is marginally better than the GH1 in video quality, does that pertain to unhacked GH1's? Is the separation as wide and noticeable to the average Joe as others state or is that mainly hot air?

  11. #111
    Senior Member Tesselator's Avatar
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    When the two cameras are in their factory states respectively the GH2's video is better. Yes the difference is noticeable but you have to know what you're looking for.

    When the GH1 is properly hacked then the GH1's video is better than the GH2's. And again yes, the differences are noticeable but you have to know what to look for - or you have to be able to identify what you're looking at. The quality increase is almost a perfect leapfrog: GH1 --> GH2 --> GH1+mod with close to equal differences linearly. That's with "safe" settings and if you wish to purchase a speedy memory card and push the envelope with the PTool's settings for the custom firmware then the GH1+mod gets even better.

    If someone is considering the GH cameras just for video quality and they don't mind patching the firmware then the GH1 is the best one still - by far actually.

    However, for the casual home movie buff who just wants to film their kid's kindergarden play, a high school graduation, or record clips from their vacation it doesn't really matter. If you're not professionally minded about video and don't edit with broadcast, duplication mastering, you will likely not be able to tell the difference between the GH1, the GH2, and the patched GH1 - if if you can, it just won't matter to you. The differences to an untrained eye are very slight.

    But also to note that if a professional wishes the best quality and needs/wants to use a DSLR then both the top Nikon and Canon DSLRs produce better quality footage than any of the Panasonic M4/3 products - including the GH1, GH2, GH1+mod and the new AG-AF100 dedicated video camera.

    The deal here is the price and the lenses. While the Nikon and the Canon both produce better video IQ they also cost (now) 5 or 6 times the price and cannot accept nearly as many alt lenses as can be fitted to the M4/3 mount.

  12. #112
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphie View Post
    Peter

    How did you find the colours compare between the GH2 and the K5? I am having a hard time - I love the K5 but my lenses are definately front and back focusing. A replacement body may well fix it but my 'head' says get a GH2 instead. Why? I will then have

    GH2 + 14-140mm (most of the cost is the lens in fact, so a 'cheap' new body)
    G1
    Panny 14-45mm
    Panny 20mm
    Olympus 9-18mm
    +
    Pentax 28mm manual focus
    Pentax 43mm Ltd

    that could all be used. If I went for the K5, many of those lenses may just gather dust.

    It's a 'no brainer' really isn't it?

    I also gather that manual focus assist is easier to activate in the GH2 than the G1, by just turning a thumbwheel?

    But that K5 is so alluring ... still in a quandary. One day I have *decided* on a replacement K5, the next, the logical answer of GH2 pulls me.

    I mostly take lowish ISO stills. No doubt that the high ISO of the K5 is stunning but how often will I really use it?

    Lee
    Lee,

    hard decision to be made

    I mainly had the AF issues with the K5, main reason why I sold it was because these issues were not even predictible and not only in happening in low light.

    I loved the colors of the K5 very much though, cannot say that the GH2 is better here, but at least the 2 cameras are on par for me WRT colors.

    Lenses - definitely the M43 system allows for even smaller lenses at same quality level compared to APSC size. I have shot now some 600 images with my kit lens 14-140 and I was NOT disappointed a single time. If something was out of focus, then it was my fault, if I had some unsharp results because of movement it was my fault. This lens is a marvel. Could absolutely not say that about the Pentax kit lens.

    And the whole kit is very small, so it stayed all the tome with me in my backpack (business backpack) during my CHina trip. So it was always available. Which would have NEVER been the case with the K5 and even less the case when a better quality Pentax zoom like the 16-55 added to it. Just simply quality issue.

    Low light performance of the K5 is definitely better, I would say noticeable above ISO 3200, but then only with good glass (limited) and if you have a working AF combo, otherwise unsharp results just kill the better ISO quality. I had never ever issues with the GH2 AF in low light (I am not even using AF assist light) and the AF simply tells you because of not focusing anywhere when it is too dark, so the you just overrule it by MF and with some practice you can nail focus pretty perfect.

    And this EVF is a DREAM, not comparable with the smallish and still dark OVF of the K5. Mentally you have to be ready for an EVF, but this one is a perfect one and so it is no big thing to get friends with it.

    I would give the GH2 a try - I did not regret!

  13. #113
    Member bcf's Avatar
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    What about the 14-42mm Panasonic kit lens? Is it any good?
    -- Bernard

  14. #114
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
    When the two cameras are in their factory states respectively the GH2's video is better. Yes the difference is noticeable but you have to know what you're looking for.

    When the GH1 is properly hacked then the GH1's video is better than the GH2's. And again yes, the differences are noticeable but you have to know what to look for - or you have to be able to identify what you're looking at. The quality increase is almost a perfect leapfrog: GH1 --> GH2 --> GH1+mod with close to equal differences linearly. That's with "safe" settings and if you wish to purchase a speedy memory card and push the envelope with the PTool's settings for the custom firmware then the GH1+mod gets even better.

    If someone is considering the GH cameras just for video quality and they don't mind patching the firmware then the GH1 is the best one still - by far actually.

    However, for the casual home movie buff who just wants to film their kid's kindergarden play, a high school graduation, or record clips from their vacation it doesn't really matter. If you're not professionally minded about video and don't edit with broadcast, duplication mastering, you will likely not be able to tell the difference between the GH1, the GH2, and the patched GH1 - if if you can, it just won't matter to you. The differences to an untrained eye are very slight.

    But also to note that if a professional wishes the best quality and needs/wants to use a DSLR then both the top Nikon and Canon DSLRs produce better quality footage than any of the Panasonic M4/3 products - including the GH1, GH2, GH1+mod and the new AG-AF100 dedicated video camera.

    The deal here is the price and the lenses. While the Nikon and the Canon both produce better video IQ they also cost (now) 5 or 6 times the price and cannot accept nearly as many alt lenses as can be fitted to the M4/3 mount.
    WRT better Video IQ from Nikon and Canon DSLRs I would be very careful. They do have better lenses - agreed - and if that helps produce better Video IQ then it may be, but in terms of sensor and processing the video out of the GH2 is pretty unbeatable. Not sure how good the Sony Video IQ is out of Alpha DSLRs though.

  15. #115
    Senior Member Tesselator's Avatar
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    WRT better Video IQ from Nikon and Canon DSLRs I would be very careful. They do have better lenses - agreed - and if that helps produce better Video IQ then it may be, but in terms of sensor and processing the video out of the GH2 is pretty unbeatable. Not sure how good the Sony Video IQ is out of Alpha DSLRs though.

    Well the cameras with bigger sensors produce footage that is superior in almost every way! Astoundingly less noise. Dumbstoundingly more dynamic range. Better color, you name it. In every test the GH1/GH2 looses out. So why buy a GH1/2 if you're interested in video? Well there are ONLY two reasons! One is price! The now $200 GH1 puts "good enough" professional video in the hands of just about any indy film-maker. The second reason is the shallow depth of the M4/3 mount flange. This allows the placement of adapted professional video lenses at the same distance from the GH1/2's sensor as the original professional film cameras and the Lumix series lenses at nearly the same distance as those. This helps a lot in getting the footage to look and feel like such film cameras - and this very desirable. It allows us to actually use exactly the same lenses - again very desirable! The Canons and Nikons (etc.) cannon accept such lenses at all.

    But again if we examine and compare the video footage itself, the GH series loses out in every respect - in a very dramatic and obvious way too! This isn't my opinion, this is measurable and demonstrable fact with literally thousands of hours online proving this beyond any doubts. If I had my wish the GH1/2 would be the best - as obviously I own the GH1.

    Here is about 1.5 hours of just such footage: http://www.zacuto.com/shootout have a look and then let's discuss it if you'd like. The Zacuto Shootout is probably the best and most fair comparison available on-line. It's really worth watching!



    PS: in your response you said the "Nikons and Canons" have better lenses... This is not really true as we have all the lenses - theirs and ours - and movie lenses! Professional videographers do not typically use or want to use autofocusing so we can discard that right off the bat. So in this regard as I explained above the GH series cameras wins. It's one of the only two aspects that the GH series do win.
    Last edited by Tesselator; 17th January 2011 at 01:15.

  16. #116
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    I haven't had time to see the shootout yet, but it's logical that larger sensors have some advantages, at least as long as the photosites are larger. However, from a practical point of view, the GH1/2 offer a lot more than lower price and the possibility to mount more or less any lens.

    To start with, they have a viewfinder. Although the Zacuto viewfinder and similar solutions work ok, they don't beat a proper viewfinder, and with the Panasonic, this comes in combination with an articulated LCD.

    The camera body is much smaller and lighter, and you can easily fit 2 x GH2 within the weight and size of a 5DII. That comparison even holds for the price, and if really small is needed, it's easy to add a GF2. There is no GF2 in the full frame world.

    Lenses are much smaller, particularly when it comes to telephoto lenses, but the same goes for WA lenses. I have on several occasions been shooting together with photographers using a D3s with Nikkor 14-24mm. The size difference is so enormous that it looks silly.

    For people working in a studio or with a large crew, this isn't very important, but for small crews on the go, or one-man-shows like myself, it's of paramount importance. I can carry two GH bodies and 6 lenses in a small Kata Kata DR-467i backpack that also has space for 3-4 days of clothing, a fluid head and a small tripod on the outside.

    I don't know how dramatic the quality difference is, but I do know that there are many places where I would never carry full frame gear, simply because it's to bulky and too heavy. In addition the difference in reaction you get between pointing a D3s with a 200mm lens at people compared to a GH1 with the OM 100mm is enormous. People simply act differently when a big camera and lens is pointed towards them, and that affects the real qualities of the video.

    So, the best isn't always the best, and although we are discussing technical quality on this thread, it's important to remember that the technology has to work within a context. Horse for courses and so on.

  17. #117
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Well,
    This summer will be interesting for me. I will be on Safari with a friend and we will be sharing the same vehicle. She will be shooting Canon 1DMIV and 5DII with 70-200, 100-400, and 800mm lenses and I will be shooting GH2's with 100-300 and 14-140. May look and see if I can find some other interesting glass and certainly she will have longer reach for birds but I am pretty comfortable that the kit I'm putting together will serve me well and be a whole lot easier to transport!

  18. #118
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Well,
    This summer will be interesting for me. I will be on Safari with a friend and we will be sharing the same vehicle. She will be shooting Canon 1DMIV and 5DII with 70-200, 100-400, and 800mm lenses and I will be shooting GH2's with 100-300 and 14-140. May look and see if I can find some other interesting glass and certainly she will have longer reach for birds but I am pretty comfortable that the kit I'm putting together will serve me well and be a whole lot easier to transport!
    That is a brave decision but I have to say I wonder who will get the most keepers. I assume you are not shooting commercially so there is no need for files that meet stock agency requirements. So, given that you'll be able to hold your camera at ready longer as it weights considerably less, I think you may have a distinct advantage... BTW, if you don't have the PL45/2.8...

    LouisB

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    What do any of you think of the Panny Leica 14-150 on the GH2? (vs. the Panny 14-140?). Or how about the Oly "Super High Grade" lenses - those seem like the cream of the crop, although really expensive.

  20. #120
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    >Or how about the Oly "Super High Grade" lenses - those seem like the cream of the crop, although really expensive.

    No IS on GH2. Would be for me a deal breaker on long focals.

    Terry, just watch the GH2 buffer if you use bursts as it is not very large.
    Last edited by ustein; 17th January 2011 at 08:56.
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  21. #121
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Woodland View Post
    What do any of you think of the Panny Leica 14-150 on the GH2? (vs. the Panny 14-140?). Or how about the Oly "Super High Grade" lenses - those seem like the cream of the crop, although really expensive.
    I owned the lens and sold it....argggh only thing I didn't like was the zoom creep. It is sharper.

    I do have a Leica R 180 f2.8 so that is fast 360mm. Not sure it can take a converter.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Yes, 'tis true about the IS and certainly would not work for the longer lenses - although I usually turn off IS anyway with big lenses since a high shutter speed is really more important when shooting wildlife or other action sports and that trumps any IS. But I wonder about their other super-duper lenses, like the 14-35 f2 at $2300? Actually an older design, but I wonder if anyone here has ever used it with a Panny G series camera - although not as long a zoom range as the 14-150 obviously I would think it might be a killer lens on a GH2. Of course there is also a Panny Leica 14-50 that I've not seen much written about - anyone try this lens on a GH1 or 2? So many choices these days!

    Lens creep on the 14-150 ey? Not a good thing when pointing down for sure. I guess that must have been enough of an issue for you to have sold it in favor of the 14-140 - do you feel this was normal for this lens, or just your copy? I would think with the price difference that the PL would have been a much better lens, but not always...

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    I just wish I could really give my brand new GH2 a try some day. Over here at 6457' N it's dark when I go to work and it's dark when I come back. During the weekend it was possible to see some daylight, but it was too cold to go outside. But what I have noticed so far is that inside it is not very usable to shoot handheld (auto ISO up to 3200) with the slow 14-140mm zoom. Perhaps I should've bought that K-5 after all...

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Woodland View Post
    Yes, 'tis true about the IS and certainly would not work for the longer lenses - although I usually turn off IS anyway with big lenses since a high shutter speed is really more important when shooting wildlife or other action sports and that trumps any IS. But I wonder about their other super-duper lenses, like the 14-35 f2 at $2300? Actually an older design, but I wonder if anyone here has ever used it with a Panny G series camera - although not as long a zoom range as the 14-150 obviously I would think it might be a killer lens on a GH2. Of course there is also a Panny Leica 14-50 that I've not seen much written about - anyone try this lens on a GH1 or 2? So many choices these days!

    Lens creep on the 14-150 ey? Not a good thing when pointing down for sure. I guess that must have been enough of an issue for you to have sold it in favor of the 14-140 - do you feel this was normal for this lens, or just your copy? I would think with the price difference that the PL would have been a much better lens, but not always...
    The Olympus 4/3 lenses I've been considering are:

    50-250mm which can take a converter.
    150mm f2.0 (gets me 600mm f4 with 2x converter)

    On the wider side, there are rumors of a Panny 12-50mm f2.5-3.3 I will wait and see if this comes to pass.

    Uwe- burst was my original concern. Something I will have to live with. Fast burst equals big camera which equals big glass.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by emr View Post
    I just wish I could really give my brand new GH2 a try some day. Over here at 6457' N it's dark when I go to work and it's dark when I come back. During the weekend it was possible to see some daylight, but it was too cold to go outside. But what I have noticed so far is that inside it is not very usable to shoot handheld (auto ISO up to 3200) with the slow 14-140mm zoom. Perhaps I should've bought that K-5 after all...
    For indoor shooting the 20mm lens is a good addition to your kit.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    For indoor shooting the 20mm lens is a good addition to your kit.
    Terry, you are probably right. However, my plan was really to get a one lens solution for traveling and walks and not have to deal with the lens changes like with a DSLR. But silly me, I should've realized that the zoom is pretty slow and if the usable ISO is up to about 3200, one can't expect wonders.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Well, the K5 kit lens isn't much faster than the Panny zoom ...

    And the 20mm is great on my G1.

    Lee

  28. #128
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    >Uwe- burst was my original concern. Something I will have to live with. Fast burst equals big camera which equals big glass.

    Use short bursts is my advice.
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  29. #129
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    For indoor shooting the 20mm lens is a good addition to your kit.
    +1 - pretty much an essential lens and a lot, lot faster on the GH-2 imho.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    For indoor shooting the 20mm lens is a good addition to your kit.
    +1, Great lens.
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  31. #131
    Senior Member Tesselator's Avatar
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I haven't had time to see the shootout yet, but it's logical that larger sensors have some advantages, at least as long as the photosites are larger. However, from a practical point of view, the GH1/2 offer a lot more than lower price and the possibility to mount more or less any lens.
    Yeah, that's what >I< said. :-)

    To start with, they have a viewfinder. Although the Zacuto viewfinder and similar solutions work ok, they don't beat a proper viewfinder, and with the Panasonic, this comes in combination with an articulated LCD.
    True but anyone actually doing it will be wanting live-view on an external monitor - that's a bit of the prerequisite. The GH1 doesn't have it. The GH2 may but I seen visual confirmation of this yet. So here the GH1 looses out once again. EVFs are OK for PJ acquisition footage but it doesn't really cut it for indy film-making or most other professionally minded applications. The GH1/2's built-in tilt/swivel monitor does go a long way toward this however - so it can be used. It's just a tad small.


    The camera body is much smaller and lighter, and you can easily fit 2 x GH2 within the weight and size of a 5DII. That comparison even holds for the price, and if really small is needed, it's easy to add a GF2. There is no GF2 in the full frame world.
    Here, no one serious cares - at all. All DSLRs are orders of magnitude lighter than professional video or film cameras. In fact any serious videographer will tell you that heavier is better. The "I wanna ultralight" crowd is composed of almost only still photographers wanting a travel cam, a second BU cam, or who are coming at it from a RF background and are in love with that form factor.



    Lenses are much smaller, particularly when it comes to telephoto lenses, but the same goes for WA lenses. I have on several occasions been shooting together with photographers using a D3s with Nikkor 14-24mm. The size difference is so enormous that it looks silly.
    Yeah, I think lens|body balance is more important than just lens size/weight tho. If it balances well it handles well and video results will often show it. I partially agree on this point but again, this is mostly only important to still photographers of soccer moms etc. That said there are tons and tons of alt lenses that are about the same size as the Lumix line and almost all of them blow away the Lumix lenses in IQ. Remember that even for the M4/3 mount if you want a very fast lens at 50mm and over you will be paying for it in size and weight. ;-)

    For people working in a studio or with a large crew, this isn't very important, but for small crews on the go, or one-man-shows like myself, it's of paramount importance. I can carry two GH bodies and 6 lenses in a small Kata Kata DR-467i backpack that also has space for 3-4 days of clothing, a fluid head and a small tripod on the outside.

    I don't know how dramatic the quality difference is, but I do know that there are many places where I would never carry full frame gear, simply because it's to bulky and too heavy. In addition the difference in reaction you get between pointing a D3s with a 200mm lens at people compared to a GH1 with the OM 100mm is enormous. People simply act differently when a big camera and lens is pointed towards them, and that affects the real qualities of the video.
    Most people shooting video with the APS-H/C or FF say it's not much of an issue. I do hear still photographers agreeing with you tho. If you're shooting serious indy the audio gear alone demands a car. So there's no big difference between the 10 extra pounds and the ever so slightly bigger back that carrying the same in FF gear will require. And again that's only for the logistics. When actually shooting; heavier is better! There's even weights that pros buy in order to increase the weight of their gear. ;^)

    As far as the response one gets doing candid shots I can't believe there is any difference between the GH1 and something like the K5. From a distance they (and the Nikons and Canons) look identical. No one will be saying to themselves: 'Oh look, that camera is 9mm narrower and 6mm shorter so I don't need to be nervous'. Unless they are a camera buff they probably will not think about video al all if you're holding a DSLR in your hands. Then again everyone even a little bit serious will be using an external monitor, an external mic. and have it all mounted on a shoulder, riffle, or chest rig so the size of the camera kinda disappears altogether. :-)



    Robert Batta


    Eric Thompson


    "One Dog" Dan Filbin

    etc.
    etc.

    So, the best isn't always the best, and although we are discussing technical quality on this thread, it's important to remember that the technology has to work within a context. Horse for courses and so on.
    I can't agree with that. This sounds like you're trying to convince yourself or sell yourself on this idea. Of course the pro and semi-pro world of videography is all about the (IQ) quality of the footage and only that. Of course actor ability, set, props, sound quality, and lighting is critical too but we're in the camera forum so we're only talking about the video. Besides connectivity and a few other things almost no one besides casual hobbyists or light weight PJ people cares much at all about form-factor. There are plenty of PJer and hobbyists out there tho so if you're talking about them then I agree but for them they don't typically care all that much about the (IQ) quality of the footage either. I was describing and talking about pro and semi-pro videographers and indy film-makers. They care only about IQ and logistics are formulated around the equipment they need to achieve the best they can afford rather than trying to select equipment based on the size of their current backpack or what they think might be more inconspicuous at their friend's birthday party.

    I think we're just talking about two completely different types of users.
    Last edited by Tesselator; 17th January 2011 at 13:22.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Well,
    This summer will be interesting for me. I will be on Safari with a friend and we will be sharing the same vehicle. She will be shooting Canon 1DMIV and 5DII with 70-200, 100-400, and 800mm lenses and I will be shooting GH2's with 100-300 and 14-140. May look and see if I can find some other interesting glass and certainly she will have longer reach for birds but I am pretty comfortable that the kit I'm putting together will serve me well and be a whole lot easier to transport!
    This will be a very interesting comparison. I think, the GH2 will do pretty nicely against the Canon, especially if you combine it with some of the other 43 glass. Looking forward to your findings!

    Meanwhile I will buy the 100-300 and 7-14 myself.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Peter - I've had the 7-14 and it is fantastic but don't completely rule out the Oly 9-18. It is tiny and good. I plan to take a small camera (probably GF2) with me in addition to the GH2's. My small camera kit has a 20mm plus the two collaspible Oly lenses.

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    Senior Member Tesselator's Avatar
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    I like the 7-14mm lens for it's FL. But perspective buyers should be informed: The lens displays a massive amount CA that the camera's "correction" is unable to completely remove. There are alternatives for about the same price that are much better in several regards - although you're sacrificing AF if that kinda thing is important to you.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Amin - I'm not shooting a GH2.
    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Well,
    This summer will be interesting for me. I will be on Safari with a friend and we will be sharing the same vehicle. She will be shooting Canon 1DMIV and 5DII with 70-200, 100-400, and 800mm lenses and I will be shooting GH2's with 100-300 and 14-140. May look and see if I can find some other interesting glass and certainly she will have longer reach for birds but I am pretty comfortable that the kit I'm putting together will serve me well and be a whole lot easier to transport!
    I'm psychic, and I didn't even know it!

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
    I like the 7-14mm lens for it's FL. But perspective buyers should be informed: The lens displays a massive amount CA that the camera's "correction" is unable to completely remove. There are alternatives for about the same price that are much better in several regards - although you're sacrificing AF if that kinda thing is important to you.
    What camera and RAW developer are you using? Seems well under control when used on a Panny camera with a RAW developer that makes the corrections.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    I'm psychic, and I didn't even know it!
    LOL. I ordered it after that post.
    I went back and looked at safari photos from photographers whose work I like (eg. Andy Biggs). When I went through their galleries and picked my favorites, for the most part they are landscape photos that have animals as a feature not as much close-up animal portraits. The net effect of that discovery took a lot of pressure off coming up with the really long lens solutions and airline carry-on restrictions of some airlines/countries.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
    I think we're just talking about two completely different types of users.
    I think so too. In my part of the world, I see news and travel videographers using increasingly smaller gear (or should that be decreasingly?). The portability makes it possible to move fast and be where things happen without bringing an army of sherpas to carry the stuff, and it makes it possible to shoot on short notice, before the action ends.

    Yes, size matters. With a camera the size of a GH1, things don't look too "serious", and often I can get the shot or the footage before people even notice that I'm shooting. That can be the difference between getting "daily life in village x" and "three Asians smiling towards the camera and showing the infamous V".

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
    I like the 7-14mm lens for it's FL. But perspective buyers should be informed: The lens displays a massive amount CA that the camera's "correction" is unable to completely remove. There are alternatives for about the same price that are much better in several regards - although you're sacrificing AF if that kinda thing is important to you.
    What alternatives?

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
    I like the 7-14mm lens for it's FL. But perspective buyers should be informed: The lens displays a massive amount CA that the camera's "correction" is unable to completely remove.
    Really? I've seen essentially none with a Panasonic body and LR and I use this lens quite a bit - often in strong contra light where I'd expect to see residual CA if it existed.

    There are alternatives for about the same price that are much better in several regards - although you're sacrificing AF if that kinda thing is important to you.
    What do you recommend? I'm happy to skip AF, size and performance being more critical. I'm not aware of a lot of non-43/m43 zoom options down at 7 to 8mm besides the Sigma 8-16.

    Ken

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    I'd be interested in hearing what you consider to be viable alternatives to the 7–14, MF notwithstanding, too. I was unaware of the CA problem too; I haven't seen any objectionable CA in net images, so far (and I use the 12–24/2.8 Nikkor for work, and am reasonably sensitive to this).

    Size really matters these days in camera kits, too, in my experience. Since airlines here are strictly enforcing the 7Kg hand-luggage rule here, and needing to travel to locations for most of my work, I have had to rethink how I carry gear (I used to use two carry-ons for two bodies and 4–6 lenses); now I use a Pelican wheely and only carry one body (D3s) and one lens (24–70/2.8) so if the worst happens, I can still do something on location while they find the bag...

    If I am shooting video, the HMC-152 (2.2Kg) gets carried and all the sound gear + tripod + hand-holding rig gets put into the hold.

    The point of these observations is that I am watching 4/3 developments very closely, for the same reasons as Jorgen and others. Personally, though, I am completely uninterested in the GH-2's video capabilities, for audio reasons only (plus a camera like the Panny HMC-152 has AF and MF with extensive aids, and is SO much easier to use for video than a DSLR, or 4./3). While the big Nikons and Canons might be used occasionally by film/TV crews to record the video, they shoot second system (separate sound recording on expensive digital recorders) and that aspect alone would double the size of my crew.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    I'd be interested in hearing what you consider to be viable alternatives to the 714, MF notwithstanding, too. I was unaware of the CA problem too; I haven't seen any objectionable CA in net images, so far (and I use the 1224/2.8 Nikkor for work, and am reasonably sensitive to this).

    Size really matters these days in camera kits, too, in my experience. Since airlines here are strictly enforcing the 7Kg hand-luggage rule here, and needing to travel to locations for most of my work, I have had to rethink how I carry gear (I used to use two carry-ons for two bodies and 46 lenses); now I use a Pelican wheely and only carry one body (D3s) and one lens (2470/2.8) so if the worst happens, I can still do something on location while they find the bag...

    If I am shooting video, the HMC-152 (2.2Kg) gets carried and all the sound gear + tripod + hand-holding rig gets put into the hold.

    The point of these observations is that I am watching 4/3 developments very closely, for the same reasons as Jorgen and others. Personally, though, I am completely uninterested in the GH-2's video capabilities, for audio reasons only (plus a camera like the Panny HMC-152 has AF and MF with extensive aids, and is SO much easier to use for video than a DSLR, or 4./3). While the big Nikons and Canons might be used occasionally by film/TV crews to record the video, they shoot second system (separate sound recording on expensive digital recorders) and that aspect alone would double the size of my crew.
    WRT airline weight restrictions I only can second here. These have really become frustrating! Some years ago nobody really cared how much weight you brought on board, now it is sometimes restricted to 1 bag below 8kg. Now do that this a Hasselblad and 2 or 3 lenses. Or with a Nikon, even with my small D700 and my 3 zooms from 12-200 range. No way, you are above the 8kg. Plus then you still do not have a computer in your bag. I especially ran into these restrictions in the US, not so much in Europe. Because in the US, if they are strict, they even limit this for the Business passengers, so even upgrading does not help.

    Here the M43 comes nicely into play. A whole kit with GH2, 14-140, 100-300 and 7-14 is sure below 4kg. So you can add another 2kg for MacBook Pro and still have some 2kg left.

    I must say I also do not too much video with my cameras, so I simply do not care too much. Because I rather try to concentrate on one thing and in my case this is photography. I think if you mix both, then - at least in my case - quality degrades. But it is nice to have video and even if I use it just for fun it is great. Sure, any dedicated video camera should be better than a DSLR, no question.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Peter,
    I fly all the time in the US. I've never on a domestic flight had them weigh carry on bags. They will look at size and number but not weight. WRT international flights it is a different story. However, again on US carriers I have not seen them weigh the carry on. The London airports have given people a lot of problems and I know for a while the US Canada flights were a problem. When I went to Iceland I pretended my carry-on Kiboko bag was really light and it was anything but light.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Peter,
    I fly all the time in the US. I've never on a domestic flight had them weigh carry on bags. They will look at size and number but not weight. WRT international flights it is a different story. However, again on US carriers I have not seen them weigh the carry on. The London airports have given people a lot of problems and I know for a while the US Canada flights were a problem. When I went to Iceland I pretended my carry-on Kiboko bag was really light and it was anything but light.
    It happened to me last year in Seattle - flying LH Business Class back to Munich - I had 2 bags and had to check one in because only 1 bag is allowed officially and the carry on bag had to be less than 8kg - so I needed to put some of my stuff from this bag into the check in bag to make it lighter. You can imagine I was really ......

    It also happened to some friends as well. I first also did not believe it, till I went through it in person.

    I must say it is not the rule that this happens, but it can be. So issue then is - what do you do, if you have some 20kg of expensive gear with you and need to reload and check in 12kg of it. You never know when they are sticking to the rules, this is the bad side of the game.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    There is one answer. You need to wear a photo vest. If you see that they are weighing and making people check bags you need to offload as much into the vest pockets as possible. Luminous Lanscape has a number of articles detailing this.

    Again, you saw this happen with Lufthansa, the US carriers (in normal times - not right after a terror problem) do not enforce a carry on weight limit.

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    There is one answer. You need to wear a photo vest. If you see that they are weighing and making people check bags you need to offload as much into the vest pockets as possible. Luminous Lanscape has a number of articles detailing this.

    Again, you saw this happen with Lufthansa, the US carriers (in normal times - not right after a terror problem) do not enforce a carry on weight limit.
    A photo vest is a great idea, thanks, will do that!

    There is hope that these situations do not occur too often

  47. #147
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
    Well the cameras with bigger sensors produce footage that is superior in almost every way! Astoundingly less noise. Dumbstoundingly more dynamic range. Better color, you name it. In every test the GH1/GH2 looses out. So why buy a GH1/2 if you're interested in video? Well there are ONLY two reasons! One is price! The now $200 GH1 puts "good enough" professional video in the hands of just about any indy film-maker. The second reason is the shallow depth of the M4/3 mount flange. This allows the placement of adapted professional video lenses at the same distance from the GH1/2's sensor as the original professional film cameras and the Lumix series lenses at nearly the same distance as those. This helps a lot in getting the footage to look and feel like such film cameras - and this very desirable. It allows us to actually use exactly the same lenses - again very desirable! The Canons and Nikons (etc.) cannon accept such lenses at all.

    But again if we examine and compare the video footage itself, the GH series loses out in every respect - in a very dramatic and obvious way too! This isn't my opinion, this is measurable and demonstrable fact with literally thousands of hours online proving this beyond any doubts. If I had my wish the GH1/2 would be the best - as obviously I own the GH1.

    Here is about 1.5 hours of just such footage: http://www.zacuto.com/shootout have a look and then let's discuss it if you'd like. The Zacuto Shootout is probably the best and most fair comparison available on-line. It's really worth watching!



    PS: in your response you said the "Nikons and Canons" have better lenses... This is not really true as we have all the lenses - theirs and ours - and movie lenses! Professional videographers do not typically use or want to use autofocusing so we can discard that right off the bat. So in this regard as I explained above the GH series cameras wins. It's one of the only two aspects that the GH series do win.
    Hello, this statement made my to register here to tell you my experience with Canon 550d and GH1/13/2 regarding video quality.
    Three years ago I started shooting a documentary about a huge building project in the center of my hometown in Austria.
    It was impossible to use a big camera on this site, so I shot with my old Canon HV10 and a Lumix LX2 for stills. But the HV10 had no wide angle and no good lowlight performance. Then I bouhgt a 550d when it came out, cause I wanted to give my shots a cinematic look with a shallow depth of field on close ups. Also I wanted to use only one camera for video and stills.
    Then the surprise: I was shocked by the footage the 550d delivered. To me it looked like upscaled SD and was full of artifacts and moire. Nearly every third shot was unusable. First I tried to work around the artifacts by throwing critical areas out of focus and used softening filters. But this made the footage even softer. I had to use two cameras again: 550d for close ups and lowlight and a Powershot SX1 (more detail and far less moire) for wide angle shots. Even a Casio EXF1 upscaled from 720p looked more detailed than the 550d at 1080p. I was more than unhappy.
    Then I decided to by a GH1 and hacked it. The best decision I ever made.
    Now I could use only one camera again. For close ups with shallow DOF, acceptable lowlight, wide angle shots with nearly no moire and stills.
    Now I have a GH2 as well and see some improvements: lowlight (no vertical banding), little more detail and the ETC mode.
    As for lowlight performance of the GH2 look at slashcam.de: They http://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/...vergleich.html tested it against a 60d and a d7000.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    There is one answer. You need to wear a photo vest. If you see that they are weighing and making people check bags you need to offload as much into the vest pockets as possible. Luminous Lanscape has a number of articles detailing this.

    Again, you saw this happen with Lufthansa, the US carriers (in normal times - not right after a terror problem) do not enforce a carry on weight limit.
    Photo vest or not, this situation is not going to improve, and makes m43 an even better deal. Here in Asia, they routinely weigh the carry on luggage, and checked in luggage is in no way safe if there's anything of value inside. A couple of years ago, I used to fill up my Think Tank Airport Addicted to the brim with cameras, lenses and even strobes, pretending that the 25+ kilograms were a fifth or so of what it really was. Now, I only use lightweight gear, and my bag is so small that they just laugh when I ask if they want me to put it on the scale, while the business crowd with their armoured little three-day bags are stopped all the time.

  49. #149
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    Re: GH2 impressions

    My 100-300 was waiting for me when I arrived home last night. Very positively surprised on size/weight. Yeah!

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    Re: GH2 impressions

    I promise not to highjack this thread as talking about flying to Kenya is much more interesting than my question. I have a couple of G1's and would value the improved ASA performance of the GH2.

    Are these specs from the Panasonic site correct? I say that as the GH2 is 68% deeper and only weighs 2% more.

    G1.................................GH2

    Weight 385......................392

    Width 124.......................124

    Height 83.6.......................89.6

    Depth 45.2.......................75.8

    Just back from Laos where I shot 2165 frames with my G1. I'll post a few when I finish my culling.

    Thanks in advance.

    Tony
    London UK

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