E-5 better in low light than D7000? Yes, maybe.

[jonoslack]

I find it troubling that for the Martini logo, the E-5 seems to be sharper, but is not in the rest of the photo (I think). The difference is particularly striking for the paper clips - is the plane of focus different?

Well, something clearly is . . . . . . . but hang on!

This is all about angels dancing on the heads of pins. Even if you assume that the dpreview shots are perfect . . . we're still only talking about one lens in one set of lighting at one distance. . . . . . and we're pixel peeping at 100%.

Surely this has very little to do with real life shooting.

I think the truth is that all these cameras will do a grand job - from the E5 to the 7D and everything inbetween. Some will be better with one lens in a certain set of circumstances, and others in others.

For me? I want small and weatherproof, so the K5 is fairly obvious - others have other priorities and so other cameras will be the right answer - Peter has lots of Nikon Glass, so the D7000 is obvious Jorgen wants those Zuiko lenses (and who can criticise that).

Each camera has it's good and bad points . . . . but I'm not sure that one can gather too much from those 100% crops at dpreview, and it seems to me that Bernard's observation rather proves the point.

I'm off to bed . . . have a good week everyone!

 

[bcf]

You are right Jono.

I too want something small - but I'm not sure the K-5 would be it. If I can carry a K-5, why not a D700 with small primes?

The m43 cameras could be a solution.

For now, I think I'll try my Zuiko (OM) glass on a D700 -and I'll know if I was right to keep my 21/3.5 all these years, or if the Voig 20/3.5 is just as good after all

 

[boyzo]

All this comparison seems pointless to me ...

With low ISO its all about the Photographers skill and out put would equal APS-C

I you have a collection of HG or SHG Zuiko then the E-5 is more than up to it.

MAny here seem to target very High ISO and some Holy grail.

There was a time when ASA 400 film was big deal and also not very good

Look at the street shots of Jakie Onassis by Galela in the 70's there awful full of grain and not that sharp

Go out and take some Bloody pictures and stop the High ISO idiosy

 

[jonoslack]

You are right Jono.

I too want something small - but I'm not sure the K-5 would be it. If I can carry a K-5, why not a D700 with small primes?

The m43 cameras could be a solution.

For now, I think I'll try my Zuiko (OM) glass on a D700 -and I'll know if I was right to keep my 21/3.5 all these years, or if the Voig 20/3.5 is just as good after all

HI Bernard
Well, I quite agree with you - our requirements are simply different. If I want something small with primes, then it's the M9 - my use for the K5 is something small, weathersealed and rugged, with a small zoom (18-135) and a couple of nice macros.

it's different for all of us

Boyzo
I understand what you say about high ISO . . . and I've always felt the same way, but now that I can suddenly shoot at 6400 ISO and print to A3 size without much penalty . . . . it's kindof attractive!

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

You are right Jono, these are all great cameras, and the points handed out by dpr become rather irrelevant when individual needs, wants and lusts are included in the quotation. One of the reasons why I started this thread was maybe because I find the E-5 to correspond well with my needs, even if it's too big and bulky. When I started to check the samples at dpr, to see how much worse it is than the competition, I found that in some respects, and particularly when the lenses are considered, it's actually better.

When image quality, native lenses, the use of legacy lenses, compatibility with the GH1 (which I have, and which would be used for travel and as a backup camera), IBIS, weather sealing, articulated LCD etc. are added together, the E-5 as a package for me is actually very reasonably priced, and will deliver outstanding photos under the circumstances that is the most important to me, which is anywhere, anytime, regardless of weather and mostly at ISOs from 800 and downwards.

High ISO and limited DR is pulled out of the hat every time the 4/3 cameras are discussed, but to tell the truth, even without ultrafast lenses and IBIS, the E-5 is a better performer at high ISO than any camera that I have ever owned. Still, I have taken around 150,000 photos the last 5 years, and at least a couple of them seem to have some artistic value.

But that's me of course. Others may have different needs, and if my needs were mainly photos in the dark, a D700 or a K5 would probably be better options. If I could afford it, I would probably buy the K5 and the Limiteds, all of them, just because I like them. But I can't. And who knows? Maybe I end up with a D700 after all. Right now, I think I'll spend some of my savings on breakfast

Edit: For some kinds of photography, a tripod has proved indispensable, also when I travel. Great high ISO doesn't always cut it. I've found this great little carbon fiber tripod that is around 40cm folded, weighs in at around a kilogram including an excellent ballhead with all the adjustments you can dream of. It's made by a Chinese company called Sirui and is surprisingly rigid. It's a little low even when extended, of course, but since real cameras are equiped with an articulated LCD, that isn't much of a problem either. Just in case somebody else have similar needs.

And it does fit on the inside of a moderately size camera bag. No more tripod that threatens to kill fellow passengers on public transport or in big crowds.

 

[ptomsu]

But you only had the kit lens with the K5 Peter, and we all agree that's a dog - that 100 ISO picture looks oof to me (maybe that bears out your focusing problem!).:ROTFL:

all the best

Jono,

you are unfortunately, I also had the DA70, a great lens, but far from satisfying me on the K5 - several reasons, I do not want to discuss again.

The K5 could have been a great camera for me if all had worked as specified or should have, but unfortunately was not. I had it also not just for a week only, I had it for almost 4 weeks. And I did a lot of shooting. But whenever I end up with a camera more testing around than taking great images this is already a bad sign. In the case of the K5 it unfortunately was, because I would have loved to get friends with it!

 

[ptomsu]

Peter has lots of Nikon Glass, so the D7000 is obvious Jorgen wants those Zuiko lenses (and who can criticise that).

This is exactly my dilemma, I know what would be the best (cheapest) way for me - a D7000, but the E5 still keeps me interested so much ......

My biggest concern and why I am still hesitating to get into the E system again is, because I am not sure about the future of the E system, despite several messages from Olympus that hey will continue this. I somehow lost this trust.

Maybe best for me would be to wait for the D800 or however this thing will be called and simply stay with Nikon

 

[ptomsu]

You are right Jono, these are all great cameras, and the points handed out by dpr become rather irrelevant when individual needs, wants and lusts are included in the quotation. One of the reasons why I started this thread was maybe because I find the E-5 to correspond well with my needs, even if it's too big and bulky. When I started to check the samples at dpr, to see how much worse it is than the competition, I found that in some respects, and particularly when the lenses are considered, it's actually better.

When image quality, native lenses, the use of legacy lenses, compatibility with the GH1 (which I have, and which would be used for travel and as a backup camera), IBIS, weather sealing, articulated LCD etc. are added together, the E-5 as a package for me is actually very reasonably priced, and will deliver outstanding photos under the circumstances that is the most important to me, which is anywhere, anytime, regardless of weather and mostly at ISOs from 800 and downwards.

High ISO and limited DR is pulled out of the hat every time the 4/3 cameras are discussed, but to tell the truth, even without ultrafast lenses and IBIS, the E-5 is a better performer at high ISO than any camera that I have ever owned. Still, I have taken around 150,000 photos the last 5 years, and at least a couple of them seem to have some artistic value.

But that's me of course. Others may have different needs, and if my needs were mainly photos in the dark, a D700 or a K5 would probably be better options. If I could afford it, I would probably buy the K5 and the Limiteds, all of them, just because I like them. But I can't. And who knows? Maybe I end up with a D700 after all. Right now, I think I'll spend some of my savings on breakfast

Edit: For some kinds of photography, a tripod has proved indispensable, also when I travel. Great high ISO doesn't always cut it. I've found this great little carbon fiber tripod that is around 40cm folded, weighs in at around a kilogram including an excellent ballhead with all the adjustments you can dream of. It's made by a Chinese company called Sirui and is surprisingly rigid. It's a little low even when extended, of course, but since real cameras are equiped with an articulated LCD, that isn't much of a problem either. Just in case somebody else have similar needs.

And it does fit on the inside of a moderately size camera bag. No more tripod that threatens to kill fellow passengers on public transport or in big crowds.

Have you tried the E5 yourself? If not please do so. After that I think you will have made your final decision for the E5, if you not already have done so. I spent the last weekend and some other days before shooting the E5 and while not only providing stellar results, I also started to love photography again, as the E5 animated me to do things again, I have not doen since years with all my Sony's, Canon's and Nikon's. And while the IQ in some cases ( as we all know and discussed in length) might be better from other cameras and combinations, the E5 has just the bit of extra in most other cases. Partly also because of the stellar Zuiko glass.

Go for it and try it if you can for some days. You will be more than satisfied

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

The simplest way is always to go with Canikon, and nobody can say that they make bad cameras or lenses. But with regards to future support, they have the history against them. Canon threw everything overboard when they changed to the EF-mount in the late eighties. It was a logical move, but not popular, and they did little or nothing to make solutions that made the old lenses workable in the new mount.

Nikon has had a more gradual approach. Pre 1977 lenses can't be mounted on any current Nikon camera without being modified, AI/AIS lenses won't meter on lower end cameras and AF lenses won't AF on the entry-level cameras.

But Olympus supports the 50mm f/1.8 that came with my OM-1 in 1974. The make an adapter for 4/3 and they make an adapter for m4/3. They also make an adapter for using 4/3 lenses on m4/3. And when there was controversy around IS on the E-510, which didn't support legacy lenses, they modified the firmware to make that happen.

With all this in mind, I think we can be relatively sure that, unless the company culture of Olympus changes radically, they will do everything they can to support owners of the original 4/3 system. It may shrink, but it will still be there, the same way as the OM system existed long after it should normally have been discontinued.

Edit:
What will also be interesting to see, is what happens when Nikon enters the world of EVIL. They have already patented a new, fully electronic lens mount. The big question will be what Nikon lenses can be used with an adapter on the new mount, and what functionality will be included. With Olympus, we already know.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Have you tried the E5 yourself? If not please do so. After that I think you will have made your final decision for the E5, if you not already have done so. I spent the last weekend and some other days before shooting the E5 and while not only providing stellar results, I also started to love photography again, as the E5 animated me to do things again, I have not doen since years with all my Sony's, Canon's and Nikon's. And while the IQ in some cases ( as we all know and discussed in length) might be better from other cameras and combinations, the E5 has just the bit of extra in most other cases. Partly also because of the stellar Zuiko glass.

Go for it and try it if you can for some days. You will be more than satisfied

The E-5 isn't yet available here, but I have borrowed the E-3 of a friend of mine for a few days. I like it a lot, and much more than I would have thought. Since the E-5 is more or less the same body, I have no problems buying the E-5 based on what I know already. The question is if I will sell all or some of my Nikon gear to finance it or keep it for now and rob a couple of banks

 

[Ario Arioldi]

This is exactly my dilemma, I know what would be the best (cheapest) way for me - a D7000, but the E5 still keeps me interested so much ......

My biggest concern and why I am still hesitating to get into the E system again is, because I am not sure about the future of the E system, despite several messages from Olympus that hey will continue this. I somehow lost this trust.

Maybe best for me would be to wait for the D800 or however this thing will be called and simply stay with Nikon

In this recent (today) press release announcing Zeiss co-operation with the m4/3, Olympus seems to declare also the intention to continue to develop both standards:

"As the originator of the Four Thirds System and Micro Four Thirds System standards, Olympus Imaging Corp. will continue to develop and enhance the product lineup for both standards to meet the diverse needs of our customers."

 

[ptomsu]

The simplest way is always to go with Canikon, and nobody can say that they make bad cameras or lenses. But with regards to future support, they have the history against them. Canon threw everything overboard when they changed to the EF-mount in the late eighties. It was a logical move, but not popular, and they did little or nothing to make solutions that made the old lenses workable in the new mount.

Nikon has had a more gradual approach. Pre 1977 lenses can't be mounted on any current Nikon camera without being modified, AI/AIS lenses won't meter on lower end cameras and AF lenses won't AF on the entry-level cameras.

But Olympus supports the 50mm f/1.8 that came with my OM-1 in 1974. The make an adapter for 4/3 and they make an adapter for m4/3. They also make an adapter for using 4/3 lenses on m4/3. And when there was controversy around IS on the E-510, which didn't support legacy lenses, they modified the firmware to make that happen.

With all this in mind, I think we can be relatively sure that, unless the company culture of Olympus changes radically, they will do everything they can to support owners of the original 4/3 system. It may shrink, but it will still be there, the same way as the OM system existed long after it should normally have been discontinued.

Edit:
What will also be interesting to see, is what happens when Nikon enters the world of EVIL. They have already patented a new, fully electronic lens mount. The big question will be what Nikon lenses can be used with an adapter on the new mount, and what functionality will be included. With Olympus, we already know.

Jorgen,

I agree to all of that! But the reality (at least my reality) is very different from all of this. Mainly because I am not a LOYAL camera brand user. And I switched several times between Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Leica, Minolta (Sony) and finally always sold all my existing glass of one brand and went into another brand. So I could not care less about how old the lenses can be to be used via adapters or other things.

Anyway I am concerned about the E system, as I do not see a strong official statement from Olympus about what they really intend - no details but an official statement at least.

So if I would go now the E system way with the E5 and 7-14, 14-35 and 35-100 and maybe even 150, I would really love to understand first that this system will be supported seriously. Means that a future Pro E camera would be of a similar build and size as the E5, so I could also hold and handle the pretty big and heavy pro grade lenses as comfortable as with the E5. Plus support also higher resolution - I am still confident, that a 43 sensor could have around 18MP and still not outperform a Pro grade Zuiko lens. And it maybe could even go higher. So such a statement I would like to see. Not sure if that will come out, but would be preferred!

 

[ptomsu]

In this recent (today) press release announcing Zeiss co-operation with the m4/3, Olympus seems to declare also the intention to continue to develop both standards:

"As the originator of the Four Thirds System and Micro Four Thirds System standards, Olympus Imaging Corp. will continue to develop and enhance the product lineup for both standards to meet the diverse needs of our customers."

This is definitely interesting - would you have a pointer to this link?

Thanks

Peter

 

[Ario Arioldi]

Here it is:
http://www.olympus-global.com/en/news/2011a/nr110207zeisse.html

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Here it is:
http://www.olympus-global.com/en/news/2011a/nr110207zeisse.html

I say WOW... they're on the right track, and so are we, right? That is very encouraging for the m4/3 system. Apart from Leica M, no other system has support from quality lens manufacturers that comes even close to this. Zuiko, Leica, Voigtlander and now Zeiss.

 

[Ario Arioldi]

I say WOW... they're on the right track, and so are we, right? That is very encouraging for the m4/3 system. Apart from Leica M, no other system has support from quality lens manufacturers that comes even close to this. Zuiko, Leica, Voigtlander and now Zeiss.

Don't forget Schneider.

 

[Godfrey]

Yes indeed: Announcements from both Schneider and Zeiss joining the mFT group, excellent stuff.

Whether the E-5 is "better" or "worse" than anything else is no longer relevant to me. It has proven to be a most satisfying camera purchase, produces results that I'm delighted with, and I love working with it. My lens kit is as complete as Magpie Syndrome will allow, and they're all great lenses.

 

[Ario Arioldi]

Yes indeed: Announcements from both Schneider and Zeiss joining the mFT group, excellent stuff.

Whether the E-5 is "better" or "worse" than anything else is no longer relevant to me. It has proven to be a most satisfying camera purchase, produces results that I'm delighted with, and I love working with it. My lens kit is as complete as Magpie Syndrome will allow, and they're all great lenses.

+1

 

[ptomsu]

Ok, so this is really promising - Schneider and Zeiss on board!

I only can reiterate that despite all the concerns about the E5 in different reviews I am really intrigued by this camera. I need another week of thinking through this, but my intent is to switch back to the E system and sell my Nikon gear

Please tell me that I am not completely crazy

 

[Ario Arioldi]

Ok, so this is really promising - Schneider and Zeiss on board!

I only can reiterate that despite all the concerns about the E5 in different reviews I am really intrigued by this camera. I need another week of thinking through this, but my intent is to switch back to the E system and sell my Nikon gear

Please tell me that I am not completely crazy

If I can share my personal experience I have both Nikon (D 700) and Oly (E5 now as a replacement of E3). I use both systems for their respective merits but if I have to choose only one between the two, my preference is for Oly.
Cheers,
Ario